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Post by ts on Jul 28, 2012 23:35:25 GMT -5
No. Linford asked more than just my definition of morality.
Perhaps I should ask Linford's definition of morality.
Hey, Linford. What is your definition of morality?
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 29, 2012 7:32:35 GMT -5
Morality is subjective to an individual philosophy, religion or culture. In other words we often create our own standard of morality.
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Post by rational on Jul 29, 2012 7:52:53 GMT -5
No. Linford asked more than just my definition of morality. Yes he did. Your reason for not answering the questions was that you wanted to know why he was asking. I asked if the answer would change depending on the reason they were being asked. 1) Ts, what is your definition of morality? 2) Is it something you apply to yourself as well as expect from others? 3) Has your morality always been pristine?
Items 1&2 seem pretty straight forward. Item 3 seems to be what you have been advocating for the workers.
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Post by snow on Jul 29, 2012 10:16:50 GMT -5
Morality is subjective to an individual philosophy, religion or culture. In other words we often create our own standard of morality. How could it be any other way really. We as individuals all have a different interpretation and view on everything. Each group has some clear definitions, but what the individuals do with that is very individual imo.
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Post by rational on Jul 29, 2012 14:18:48 GMT -5
Morality is subjective to an individual philosophy, religion or culture. In other words we often create our own standard of morality. How could it be any other way really. We as individuals all have a different interpretation and view on everything. Each group has some clear definitions, but what the individuals do with that is very individual imo. Is it your belief that there is a universal morality?
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Post by snow on Jul 29, 2012 16:11:08 GMT -5
How could it be any other way really. We as individuals all have a different interpretation and view on everything. Each group has some clear definitions, but what the individuals do with that is very individual imo. Is it your belief that there is a universal morality? I think there are some things which most of us value. But a universal morality that everyone believes in and follows, no I don't. Our upbringing, culture and various other circumstances contribute to our beliefs and actions imo.
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Post by ts on Jul 29, 2012 19:58:44 GMT -5
Morality is subjective to an individual philosophy, religion or culture. In other words we often create our own standard of morality. Perhaps we are discussing the wrong word, then, Linford. The word of God is not subjective. Or, do you feel that sin in one culture is not sin in another? For example, if a Christian from the States goes to Africa to a tribe that worships idols, are the natives fine worshiping the idols because that is just a part of their culture or must they repent of that and confess the name of Jesus above every name in order to be saved?
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 29, 2012 20:12:26 GMT -5
Morality is subjective to an individual philosophy, religion or culture. In other words we often create our own standard of morality. Perhaps we are discussing the wrong word, then, Linford. The word of God is not subjective. Or, do you feel that sin in one culture is not sin in another? For example, if a Christian from the States goes to Africa to a tribe that worships idols, are the natives fine worshiping the idols because that is just a part of their culture or must they repent of that and confess the name of Jesus above every name in order to be saved? What word of God are you referring to?
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Post by ts on Jul 29, 2012 20:41:18 GMT -5
Perhaps we are discussing the wrong word, then, Linford. The word of God is not subjective. Or, do you feel that sin in one culture is not sin in another? For example, if a Christian from the States goes to Africa to a tribe that worships idols, are the natives fine worshiping the idols because that is just a part of their culture or must they repent of that and confess the name of Jesus above every name in order to be saved? What word of God are you referring to? What do you mean? Are there parts of God's living Word that you know of that are subjective?
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 29, 2012 20:48:30 GMT -5
In some ways yes. For instance the birth of Jesus. An engaged couple and the future husband finds out his wife to be is pregnant. By the moral law he was under he was going to annul their engagement. he was told not,because this was of God. By all appearances this would be immoral. It wasn't though because it was subjective to the plan of God.
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Post by ts on Jul 29, 2012 20:55:25 GMT -5
In some ways yes. For instance the birth of Jesus. An engaged couple and the future husband finds out his wife to be is pregnant. By the moral law he was under he was going to annul their engagement. he was told not,because this was of God. By all appearances this would be immoral. It wasn't though because it was subjective to the plan of God. Is there a culture that is not "subjective to the plan of God"? Joseph would have been in error to have put Mary away. The Spirit that conceived Jesus in Mary was God's Holy Spirit. God's "moral code" was not contrary to what the angel told Joseph. The angel gave Joseph a peek into the work of the Spirit. Mary did nothing immoral and therefore did not deserve being put away.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 29, 2012 21:00:37 GMT -5
In some ways yes. For instance the birth of Jesus. An engaged couple and the future husband finds out his wife to be is pregnant. By the moral law he was under he was going to annul their engagement. he was told not,because this was of God. By all appearances this would be immoral. It wasn't though because it was subjective to the plan of God. Is there a culture that is not "subjective to the plan of God"? Joseph would have been in error to have put Mary away. The Spirit that conceived Jesus in Mary was God's Holy Spirit. God's "moral code" was not contrary to what the angel told Joseph. The angel gave Joseph a peek into the work of the Spirit. Mary did nothing immoral and therefore did not deserve being put away. You changed the subject. The statement was morality was subjective. You changed it to the word of God being subjective.
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Post by rational on Jul 29, 2012 21:01:45 GMT -5
Perhaps we are discussing the wrong word, then, Linford. The word of God is not subjective. I see no mention of morals here. Sin has to do with whatever paranormal being you worship not the culture you are brought up in. If they are worshiping it sounds more like a religious belief than culture. Is your goal to impose your beliefs on the natives? Suppose the natives want you to worship Jugbe and beat the drum with them to gain eternal salvation? I would think it immoral if you forced the natives to convert, like so many christian missionaries have.
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Post by ts on Jul 29, 2012 21:45:27 GMT -5
And are you in agreement with rational, Linford?
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 30, 2012 6:52:34 GMT -5
And are you in agreement with rational, Linford? Sounds like kindergarten. Do you like him better than me?
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Post by ts on Jul 30, 2012 11:15:57 GMT -5
And are you in agreement with rational, Linford? Sounds like kindergarten. Do you like him better than me? You went from "morality being subjective" to "subjective to the plan of God". Being subjective to human thought means that morality changes in every culture or even from person to person. Being subjective to the plan of God is completely different. Which do you mean? If you agree with Rational's view of converting people from idolatry as being immoral, then I get a feel for what you are meaning. You have a high regard for rational's view of truth and morality.
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Post by rational on Jul 30, 2012 11:54:24 GMT -5
Being subjective to human thought means that morality changes in every culture or even from person to person. Being subjective to the plan of God is completely different. Which do you mean? Are you sure you mean 'subjective'? Perhaps 'subject'? I think what you are saying is that either people have their own moral compass, developed over time from a variety of sources of experience or they look to some written text that contains a moral code that they are required to follow without question. You are the king of distortion. I did not say that converting them is immoral. I said that forcing them to convert would be immoral. Of course, once you have converted them does not mean that the possibility for immorality stops. Or maybe you have a different meaning for the adjective 'subjective' that makes sense in this context.
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Post by ts on Jul 30, 2012 12:06:46 GMT -5
In some ways yes. For instance the birth of Jesus. An engaged couple and the future husband finds out his wife to be is pregnant. By the moral law he was under he was going to annul their engagement. he was told not,because this was of God. By all appearances this would be immoral. It wasn't though because it was subjective to the plan of God.Perhaps we need to ask Linford what he meant by this statement. He did say "subjective".
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Post by sharonw on Jul 30, 2012 19:00:08 GMT -5
Is it your belief that there is a universal morality? I think there are some things which most of us value. But a universal morality that everyone believes in and follows, no I don't. Our upbringing, culture and various other circumstances contribute to our beliefs and actions imo. I think the culture norms in a group are apt to be pretty much the same as in living and let live, etc.....that said, looking at the makeup of the 2x2 culture, we will see that their morality and other mores would likely be somewhat different due to the wrapping around the younger set coming up to replace the old going out. That puts the younger children in a cocoon perhaps likeness because of the protected culture of the 2x2's....I can tell you that that was the way we were raised....there were many cultural differences of other groups that I had had no idea about so it was all new to me. And I know children from my age group often felt the same way.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 30, 2012 19:19:07 GMT -5
I think there are some things which most of us value. But a universal morality that everyone believes in and follows, no I don't. Our upbringing, culture and various other circumstances contribute to our beliefs and actions imo. I think the culture norms in a group are apt to be pretty much the same as in living and let live, etc.....that said, looking at the makeup of the 2x2 culture, we will see that their morality and other mores would likely be somewhat different due to the wrapping around the younger set coming up to replace the old going out. That puts the younger children in a coccoon perhaps likeness because of the protected culture of the 2x2's....I can tell you that that was the way we were raised....there were many cultural differences of other groups that I had had no idea about so it was all new to me. And I know children from my age group often felt the same way. You must not have been around our young people lately. They are far from being in a cocoon. Shielded people know how to spell cocoon too.
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Post by rational on Jul 30, 2012 19:25:08 GMT -5
Shielded people know how to spell cocoon too. This was uncalled for. (If anyone is going to annoy Sharon I will!)
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Post by rational on Jul 30, 2012 19:26:59 GMT -5
I think the culture norms in a group are apt to be pretty much the same as in living and let live, etc.....that said, looking at the makeup of the 2x2 culture, we will see that their morality and other mores would likely be somewhat different due to the wrapping around the younger set coming up to replace the old going out. That puts the younger children in a coccoon perhaps likeness because of the protected culture of the 2x2's....I can tell you that that was the way we were raised....there were many cultural differences of other groups that I had had no idea about so it was all new to me. And I know children from my age group often felt the same way. But how does this relate to morality? Was your morality different because you didn't associate with the Jewish community?
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Post by Greg on Jul 30, 2012 19:31:52 GMT -5
Shielded people know how to spell cocoon too. This was uncalled for. (If anyone is going to annoy Sharon I will!)Do shielded people know proper use of the comma, too?
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Post by rational on Jul 30, 2012 19:46:15 GMT -5
In other words we often create our own standard of morality. Perhaps this should read: In other words we create our own standard of morality.That standard may be to create our own moral compass or to obey morals that are handed down/commanded by some other entity/source. Is following 'orders' a moral choice or just a matter of obedience? Like a child that behaves because it doesn't want to be punished.
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Post by ts on Jul 30, 2012 20:24:33 GMT -5
I think the culture norms in a group are apt to be pretty much the same as in living and let live, etc.....that said, looking at the makeup of the 2x2 culture, we will see that their morality and other mores would likely be somewhat different due to the wrapping around the younger set coming up to replace the old going out. That puts the younger children in a coccoon perhaps likeness because of the protected culture of the 2x2's....I can tell you that that was the way we were raised....there were many cultural differences of other groups that I had had no idea about so it was all new to me. And I know children from my age group often felt the same way. You must not have been around our young people lately. They are far from being in a cocoon. Shielded people know how to spell cocoon too. Looks like we have a little rational in the making. You have learned the lesson well, grasshopper. Your champion is leading the way.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 30, 2012 20:33:58 GMT -5
You must not have been around our young people lately. They are far from being in a cocoon. Shielded people know how to spell cocoon too. Looks like we have a little rational in the making. You have learned the lesson well, grasshopper. Your champion is leading the way. I can think of worse things to be. What do you have against Rational ts? Lay it all out
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Post by ts on Jul 30, 2012 20:57:17 GMT -5
Looks like we have a little rational in the making. You have learned the lesson well, grasshopper. Your champion is leading the way. I can think of worse things to be. What do you have against Rational ts? Lay it all out Rational expresses well the morality of the workers and, it appears, the elders...the leadership of the meetings. His and the meetinng leadership have a morality and righteousness is the law of the land without a fear of God. Is there anything wrong with that, Linford?
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Post by sharonw on Jul 30, 2012 21:02:21 GMT -5
I think the culture norms in a group are apt to be pretty much the same as in living and let live, etc.....that said, looking at the makeup of the 2x2 culture, we will see that their morality and other mores would likely be somewhat different due to the wrapping around the younger set coming up to replace the old going out. That puts the younger children in a coccoon perhaps likeness because of the protected culture of the 2x2's....I can tell you that that was the way we were raised....there were many cultural differences of other groups that I had had no idea about so it was all new to me. And I know children from my age group often felt the same way. But how does this relate to morality? Was your morality different because you didn't associate with the Jewish community? Definitely....we had NO idea what the Jewis community was like nor what their mores were, except what is written in the bible....supposedly they are said to be following all the Mosaic laws down to the T....but I didn't and still don't know that for a fact..... Sometimes I do think people are hindered due to their religious beliefs, esp. those that follow the 10 commandments....they go bonkers when things don't go according to the laws and thus are easily discouraged in general life....
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