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Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 11, 2012 11:03:59 GMT -5
Even noels has not dropped us a note of support for Graham which seems quite strange considering all that had been said on this board. noels hasn't posted for over a month. I don't think that says anything one way or another about noels' position on this subject. |
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Post by sharonw on Jun 11, 2012 11:24:17 GMT -5
Don't see any of that in the bible. Bible's not all there is in this world. It's a relatively new scripture in fact. Kiwi, it IS in the bible......go read about the tower of Babel and notice that God confused those people so they could not build that tower, He sent them on the way by changing the tongues that they spoke.....so it IS God that encompasses ALL of creation.... |
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Post by sharonw on Jun 11, 2012 11:26:42 GMT -5
What are the chances that GT would be put out of the work if he gathers more attention with ground-breaking testimonies that do not necessarily reflect the thoughts of the overseer(s)? Not going to happen. Kiwi assured us that GT's sermon was inspired by God and that GT is completely in step with all the other NZ workers on this. If GT hadn't delivered the sermon, another worker would have. Male or female. Aww, I'm not so sure here Emerald....God knew who He could use to get this message started, couched in terms that are not offensive to the hardliners in the 2x2's, whether worker/friend. No one could have delivered that kind of sermon without a lot of prayer and meditation AND it being something that the person has close to their heart! JMO |
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Post by sharonw on Jun 11, 2012 11:28:48 GMT -5
What are the chances that GT would be put out of the work if he gathers more attention with ground-breaking testimonies that do not necessarily reflect the thoughts of the overseer(s)? I also have wondered the same thing...seems GT has paid for being on his own two feet before....but perhaps if we all would pray that his sermon is accepted by his senior workers then perhaps they will leave him alone, regardless of how many praises are sung over the sermon. |
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 11, 2012 12:09:03 GMT -5
Clearday, know you're not asking me, but my thought is there is one God, many beliefs about him, and he's big enough to encompass them all. Nothing he/she/it can't do imo. Connects with individuals of all beliefs. It is an absurdity to claim that any entity can be "big enough" (as if size of any issue) to encompass two contradictory propositions. |
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Post by snow on Jun 11, 2012 13:19:28 GMT -5
Clearday, know you're not asking me, but my thought is there is one God, many beliefs about him, and he's big enough to encompass them all. Nothing he/she/it can't do imo. Connects with individuals of all beliefs. It is an absurdity to claim that any entity can be "big enough" (as if size of any issue) to encompass two contradictory propositions. Do you know that for sure? Are you limiting God? All is God, dark light, good bad etc. He/she has created everything just the way it is, so why would not a God be a being that could encompass all ways of coming to him? There is no such thing as a 'one true way', there are many ways to God and he is expansive enough to embrace them all. That is my opinion and I am not trying to make it yours. Simply stating how I see God. Hmm think this is off topic once again. Sorry mods. |
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 11, 2012 13:23:28 GMT -5
Yes, I do. No, I'm not. He created everything but there are no logical inconsistencies, else it could not exist. How do you know you are right?
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Post by snow on Jun 11, 2012 13:29:55 GMT -5
Yes, I do. No, I'm not. He created everything but there are no logical inconsistencies, else it could not exist. How do you know you are right? Same way you know you're right probably. In my heart. |
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 11, 2012 13:36:49 GMT -5
That's not how I know I'm right. If you're right, you're also wrong.
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Post by snow on Jun 11, 2012 14:29:12 GMT -5
That's not how I know I'm right. If you're right, you're also wrong. How do you determine when something is true for you then? Yes, I accept that, it's called a paradox. |
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Post by quizzer on Jun 11, 2012 14:30:24 GMT -5
What are the chances that GT would be put out of the work if he gathers more attention with ground-breaking testimonies that do not necessarily reflect the thoughts of the overseer(s)? Not going to happen. Kiwi assured us that GT's sermon was inspired by God and that GT is completely in step with all the other NZ workers on this. If GT hadn't delivered the sermon, another worker would have. Male or female. Ahhh...good! The highly coveted kiwi-endorsement has been rendered. We're safe now. |
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 11, 2012 14:44:38 GMT -5
How do you determine when something is true for you then? Yes, I accept that, it's called a paradox. I don't determine that something is true for me. Truth isn't "for me". It just is. But to determine the truth I use my faculties of logic and reason in conjunction with the evidence. |
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Post by snow on Jun 11, 2012 16:51:52 GMT -5
How do you determine when something is true for you then? Yes, I accept that, it's called a paradox. I don't determine that something is true for me. Truth isn't "for me". It just is. But to determine the truth I use my faculties of logic and reason in conjunction with the evidence. Yes, those things do come into play too. But because of the different variations of the 'truth' that are out there, the heart has to play a final role and I believe it does. If you study the other scriptures of the world and you come from a different culture, then your logic and reason in conjunction with the evidence 'as you know it' will bring you to your truth. In the world of a Buddhist, that is their truth, and there is all of the things you mention above used to come to that conclusion. In the world of an atheist all beliefs based on faith are not true. That is their truth. Whose truth is true? |
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 11, 2012 17:28:05 GMT -5
Only the true truth is true.
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Post by sharonw on Jun 11, 2012 18:12:45 GMT -5
Only the true truth is true. No, Jesus is truth! |
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Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 11, 2012 18:25:31 GMT -5
Only the true truth is true. No, Jesus is truth! "No"? What is it about "Jesus is truth" that you see as being opposed to what I said in that quote? |
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Post by snow on Jun 11, 2012 19:01:30 GMT -5
Only the true truth is true. Now if everyone could just figure out what that might be...  |
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Post by kiwi on Jun 12, 2012 0:59:04 GMT -5
Don't see any of that in the bible. Bible's not all there is in this world. It's a relatively new scripture in fact. So the important stuff God would want us to know is not in the Bible? |
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Post by kiwi on Jun 12, 2012 1:00:39 GMT -5
What are the chances that GT would be put out of the work if he gathers more attention with ground-breaking testimonies that do not necessarily reflect the thoughts of the overseer(s)? Not going to happen. Kiwi assured us that GT's sermon was inspired by God and that GT is completely in step with all the other NZ workers on this. If GT hadn't delivered the sermon, another worker would have. Male or female. How do you know another worker would have. Male or female? |
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Post by kiwi on Jun 12, 2012 1:01:20 GMT -5
Even noels has not dropped us a note of support for Graham which seems quite strange considering all that had been said on this board. noels hasn't posted for over a month. I don't think that says anything one way or another about noels' position on this subject. Noels is not going to post anymore. |
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Post by DumSpiroSpero on Jun 12, 2012 2:52:55 GMT -5
noels hasn't posted for over a month. I don't think that says anything one way or another about noels' position on this subject. Noels is not going to post anymore. Fair enough, kiwi. Have you had any communication with noels to get a feeling for his thoughts on Grahams 'sermon' (I don't particularly like the term but it's the best in the circumstances) I know you don't speak on his behalf, but it would be nice to have an indication of the reaction to Grahams sermon amongst the workers... |
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Post by kiwi on Jun 12, 2012 4:04:43 GMT -5
Noels is not going to post anymore. Fair enough, kiwi. Have you had any communication with noels to get a feeling for his thoughts on Grahams 'sermon' (I don't particularly like the term but it's the best in the circumstances) I know you don't speak on his behalf, but it would be nice to have an indication of the reaction to Grahams sermon amongst the workers... I have been talking to Noels but it was before Graham had spoken. But know him he would be in favour of it. |
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Post by DumSpiroSpero on Jun 12, 2012 4:22:02 GMT -5
Thanks kiwi - I get the feeling that would be the case. Hopefully Grahams sermon creates a groundswell of support that shifts the most stubborn old codgers |
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Post by Happy Feet on Jun 12, 2012 5:06:00 GMT -5
noels hasn't posted for over a month. I don't think that says anything one way or another about noels' position on this subject. Noels is not going to post anymore. He was going to come back on the board and report regarding the outcome of the opening post on the other thread about SA in NZ. Seems like he is not going to keep his word on that? |
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Post by DumSpiroSpero on Jun 12, 2012 5:20:42 GMT -5
Noels is not going to post anymore. He was going to come back on the board and report regarding the outcome of the opening post on the other thread about SA in NZ. Seems like he is not going to keep his word on that? Perhaps he's doing his good work amongst the flock rather than arguing on TMB? I've crossed swords with noels from time to time, but get a feeling that he really is trying to make a difference... Time will tell... |
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Post by emerald on Jun 12, 2012 7:55:00 GMT -5
Not going to happen. Kiwi assured us that GT's sermon was inspired by God and that GT is completely in step with all the other NZ workers on this. If GT hadn't delivered the sermon, another worker would have. Male or female. How do you know another worker would have. Male or female? Do you think God can only use GT? Are you saying the same unity of Spirit doesn't prevail in NZ conventions as it does in Ireland? Are you saying God cannot use female workers to be His mouthpiece? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2012 11:37:23 GMT -5
I know you don't speak on his behalf, but it would be nice to have an indication of the reaction to Grahams sermon amongst the workers... There are some workers who have privately stated they support Graham’s message and are very glad it’s been said – from what I have heard first hand these are mainly the junior ones, but there could be others. It would be nice if even one worker would declare their support openly on this board (even under a pseudonym would be better than nothing) but I understand that they will have various reasons for remaining in the background (e.g. they have relationships with current companions to maintain etc). Of course, Graham is a distinct personality and is head and shoulders integrity-wise above many of the others – put it this way, the rest are wimps in comparison, in terms of standing for matters of truth. Graham has always been prepared to make such stands. While I would like some open worker support to be given (rather than voiced privately behind the scenes, as is currently happening) I actually think that a very significant point is that so far no worker, to my knowledge, has expressed any flaw in the approach Graham has given on how to deal effectively with csa. I have heard nothing adverse along that line, even privately. His message is very widely known now through NZ – you ring anyone on the phone in any area of NZ and there is now a high chance they know about it. So if there is any obvious flaw in his approach to csa, then I would have expected it to have surfaced by now. The only disparaging remark I have heard from a worker (admittedly not firsthand, but believable because of past experience I have had with the worker concerned) was a comment that did not condemn Graham’s ‘teaching’ at all, but simply centred on the fact that it was a subject that should never be spoken on at Special meetings. But this remark was from a senior worker who many know dislikes Graham intensely, and loves the limelight (so he certainly wouldn’t like Graham getting any limelight, nor Graham’s ability to express his thinking on csa so effectively). I also find it telling, that this worker did not refer to any flaws in Graham’s doctrine or teaching, because I am confident he would have referred to them if there were any. |
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Post by snow on Jun 12, 2012 12:14:09 GMT -5
Bible's not all there is in this world. It's a relatively new scripture in fact. So the important stuff God would want us to know is not in the Bible? I would think it's important to some people. Just not the only book that has been important to people when they felt led to be connected with the divine. Not being open to learning what other cultures have learned about God can limit us to a too narrow view of God. But then, Kiwi, you know that's just how feel about things. I understand the bible is the one you have chosen. |
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