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Post by toffeecrumble on Nov 14, 2008 6:47:38 GMT -5
I thought I was clear. Tolerance of different sexual preference from your own is right; proclaiming that God hates fags is wrong. Just as we are learning about equality and tolerance of women and other races, if we are to grow up, we must also learn to tolerate different sexual preferences. I'm sorry if that means certain scriptural teachings must be abandoned as outdated and immoral. What a demeaning term you choose to use! "tolerance of women and other races" Do you mean you think equality means tolerating and not judging as equal? There is a world of difference between believing to be equal and just tolerating someone. Equality means knowing and believing that all people are equal = equally deserving, equally esteemed, every bit as good as me whoever I am. We have taken a long toime to come round to it but now that we are there, let's not confuse equality with tolerance.
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Post by ilylo on Nov 14, 2008 8:38:11 GMT -5
I CAN ASURE YOU EDGAR THAT THE WORD OF GOD IS TOTALY CLEAR ON THIS SUBJECT AS ANY PERSON THAT KNOWS THE WORD OF GOD WILL VERIFY. IF YOU LIKE I WILL PROVIDE SOME OF THE MANY REFERENCES. IF YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE STATEMENTS LIKE THAT AT LEAST TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU KNOW AND IN THIS CASE MY FRIEND YOU ARE IN WILLFUL IGNORANCE!! Dr. Landless, is that you?
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Nov 14, 2008 10:15:49 GMT -5
I CAN ASURE YOU EDGAR THAT THE WORD OF GOD IS TOTALY CLEAR ON THIS SUBJECT AS ANY PERSON THAT KNOWS THE WORD OF GOD WILL VERIFY. IF YOU LIKE I WILL PROVIDE SOME OF THE MANY REFERENCES. IF YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE STATEMENTS LIKE THAT AT LEAST TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU KNOW AND IN THIS CASE MY FRIEND YOU ARE IN WILLFUL IGNORANCE!! James, you may quit shouting, Edgar knows his Bible on this subject. Jesus said not a single word against homosexuality.
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Nov 14, 2008 10:16:59 GMT -5
What a demeaning term you choose to use! "tolerance of women and other races" Do you mean you think equality means tolerating and not judging as equal? There is a world of difference between believing to be equal and just tolerating someone. Equality means knowing and believing that all people are equal = equally deserving, equally esteemed, every bit as good as me whoever I am. We have taken a long toime to come round to it but now that we are there, let's not confuse equality with tolerance. thank you, toffee
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Post by rational on Nov 14, 2008 10:31:17 GMT -5
No. He was just renewing, 'fulfilling' the 'eye-for-an-eye' command in the Old Testament. Because Jesus knew that as time passed Jews did not practice this command that was supposed to put fear into the people to keep them from committing sin, and so it was only done to a selected few, mostly the poor and to those who actually needed to steal to keep their families fed. The rich and those in authority were almost never punished this way. By the time Jesus came on the scene, the stoning and other practices were almost non-existent. Odd that you believe this. Stoning is quite common in the world today. A 13 year old Somali girl who was publicly tortured and stoned in Kismayu, Somalia, last month. Or did you mean that Jesus "fulfilled" that part of the law because the Jews were no longer enforcing them. How would that fulfill the law?
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Post by Lee on Nov 14, 2008 10:58:37 GMT -5
[James, you may quit shouting, Edgar knows his Bible on this subject. Jesus said not a single word against homosexuality.[/quote]
Yeah right, I mean wrong. Check out Matthew 15: 19
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Nov 14, 2008 11:28:21 GMT -5
Yeah right, I mean wrong. Check out Matthew 15: 19 You're kidding, I hope.
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Post by Sharon on Nov 14, 2008 12:40:43 GMT -5
I CAN ASURE YOU EDGAR THAT THE WORD OF GOD IS TOTALY CLEAR ON THIS SUBJECT AS ANY PERSON THAT KNOWS THE WORD OF GOD WILL VERIFY. IF YOU LIKE I WILL PROVIDE SOME OF THE MANY REFERENCES. IF YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE STATEMENTS LIKE THAT AT LEAST TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU KNOW AND IN THIS CASE MY FRIEND YOU ARE IN WILLFUL IGNORANCE!! James, you may quit shouting, Edgar knows his Bible on this subject. Jesus said not a single word against homosexuality. Mu Bible dictionary says that the sermon on the mount is Jesus addressing all issues of life.....we read what he had to say about adultery adn fornication, do we not? It's my understanding "any" sex outside the bonds of matrimony between a "he" and a "she" is considered "fornication", is it not....why the he and she? Clearly the institution set up during Adam and Eve's day, that a man would cleave to his wife and leave his mother, father, etc. God didn't make mankind to physically fit with same sexes nor with beasts.......does He still love them? Correct, He still loves them....did Jesus die for that sin as well as any other sin of mankind? Sure He did.....we all sin everyday...sometimes just by being inappropriate! But as it was said by someone else we all live under grace everyday...but that doesn't make it right for us to intentionally commit sin...we do enough without intentionally doing it, don't we? Or at least I do! But to accept the fact that some condition in the world has encouraged homosexuality and then turn around and excommunicate someone for something outrageous in their belief isn't Christlike! If we ourselves are not perfect and I don't know one human yet that is....we can not in clear conscience condemn them or excommunicate them from our realm of fellowship whether religious or otherwise! TJMHOP!
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Nov 14, 2008 12:58:19 GMT -5
Yes, the parts seem to work better between a man and a woman. lol.
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Nov 14, 2008 13:09:35 GMT -5
Jesus said not a single word against homosexuality. Hmmm. I may be forced to rescind this, depending upon how you interpret Revelation and the word "dog". See my post in the "immoral sexual practices" thread.
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Post by Gene on Nov 14, 2008 14:47:52 GMT -5
Yes, the parts seem to work better between a man and a woman. lol. Is that based on experience or observation?
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Nov 14, 2008 14:55:46 GMT -5
Yes, the parts seem to work better between a man and a woman. lol. Is that based on experience or observation? um...[clamps mouth shut tight]
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Nov 14, 2008 15:01:58 GMT -5
Yes, the parts seem to work better between a man and a woman. lol. Is that based on experience or observation? Biology.
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Post by Gene on Nov 14, 2008 15:16:49 GMT -5
Is that based on experience or observation? Biology. More precisely, anatomy.
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 14, 2008 16:30:43 GMT -5
Some of you guys simply do not understand the basic Word of God and this without doubt includes massey, diet coke, ram and all the rest who go down their view point.
Edgar Massey talked earlier about the pharisies and how Jesus was so against them. This has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand and if you read my posts immediately before this you will see that I clearly do not fall into this catogry.
You see guys its not about you or me, I am no better than anyone else here, in my human state as I said earlier and I know this. We are all sinners, end of story. But I do know that Jesus has personaly covered my sins.
I am pleased to see there are some who have put there differences aside with myself and spoken out due to their loyalty to Christ, what about the rest of you guys, come on bert you must have something to say on this.
I mean these guys are in serious deception and saying terible things!
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Nov 14, 2008 16:34:24 GMT -5
Most precisely, biology.
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Post by Gene on Nov 14, 2008 16:35:44 GMT -5
Most precisely, biology. Moster precisely.... no, wait, that's not a word.
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Nov 14, 2008 16:42:50 GMT -5
Some of you guys simply do not understand the basic Word of God and this without doubt includes massey, diet coke, ram and all the rest who go down their view point. Yo, james, quit lumping me in with those who would rather twist the scripture until it is acceptable instead of accepting it at face value and then discarding it. I know what the scripture says. kudos anyone who is at least willing to twist it, though. (massey, ram, my apologies, I don't REALLY know your thinking on this matter).
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 14, 2008 16:57:23 GMT -5
The evidence is in the writing dietcoke.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2008 17:36:50 GMT -5
Some of you guys simply do not understand the basic Word of God and this without doubt includes massey, diet coke, ram and all the rest who go down their view point. Edgar Massey talked earlier about the pharisies and how Jesus was so against them. This has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand and if you read my posts immediately before this you will see that I clearly do not fall into this catogry. You see guys its not about you or me, I am no better than anyone else here, in my human state as I said earlier and I know this. We are all sinners, end of story. But I do know that Jesus has personaly covered my sins. I am pleased to see there are some who have put there differences aside with myself and spoken out due to their loyalty to Christ, what about the rest of you guys, come on bert you must have something to say on this. I mean these guys are in serious deception and saying terible things! Jimmy, How can we understand the scriptures if we have no-one to guide us. We are all on our chariot returning from Jerusalem, as perplexed with the written word as when we started our journey. We need YOU to Phillip us, being so caught up with the Holy Ghost with your vast insight and knowledge. Please step aboard Jimmy and explain things to us.
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Post by Sharon on Nov 14, 2008 21:08:35 GMT -5
WOW! We used to have a Baptist preacher here in this large town who'd preach hellfire and damnation....he got a big following eventually through fear! But when he finally got a church built to his own desires, it soon burned out in the attic...no cause ever determined. Some of his converst joked that his hellfire and damnation preaching finally went through the ceiling. pun intended by those people!
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 15, 2008 0:14:23 GMT -5
Jesus Christ was God manifested in the flesh. God was there before Jesus Christ came. The Old Testament (as is the new) was totally inspired by God through man. Many things in the Old Testament have absolutely the same truth to day, for example, homosexuality. Check out Sodom and Gomorrah. There are countless references throughout the Bible that clearly tells us that God did not make males to do things with other males. There is no doubt about this and any (if that’s what you want) biblical scholar will tell you. This is not a grey area.
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 15, 2008 18:30:28 GMT -5
Siwells was spot on when he said. "Mu Bible dictionary says that the sermon on the mount is Jesus addressing all issues of life.....we read what he had to say about adultery adn fornication, do we not? It's my understanding "any" sex outside the bonds of matrimony between a "he" and a "she" is considered "fornication", is it not....why the he and she? Clearly the institution set up during Adam and Eve's day, that a man would cleave to his wife and leave his mother, father, etc. God didn't make mankind to physically fit with same sexes nor with beasts.......does He still love them? Correct, He still loves them....did Jesus die for that sin as well as any other sin of mankind? Sure He did.....we all sin everyday...sometimes just by being inappropriate! But as it was said by someone else we all live under grace everyday...but that doesn't make it right for us to intentionally commit sin...we do enough without intentionally doing it, don't we? Or at least I do! " Well that was good and spot on...Amen to that, but edgar definately does not know his bible. PS. I wont stop shouting when someone says something like that
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Post by learnedaboutgrace on Nov 15, 2008 18:51:32 GMT -5
So you are saying you have never commited an intentional sin? Never decided to tell the little white lie to protect someones feelings? Never coveted what somebody else has?
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 15, 2008 19:41:43 GMT -5
Of course I am not sayeing that. Dont you read my posts? Why would you say something like that?
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Post by learnedaboutgrace on Nov 15, 2008 21:15:07 GMT -5
no I don't read many, but in #1775 it kind of sounded like you were saying an intentional sin would send someone to hell.
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Post by Sharon on Nov 15, 2008 21:23:45 GMT -5
no I don't read many, but in #1775 it kind of sounded like you were saying an intentional sin would send someone to hell. Isn't that somewhat like the story of Jesus when the Jews brought a guilty woman before him of adultery? Caught in the very act. It was by the old law something worthy of stoning to death.....but He forgave her, but what did He say after that..."Go and sin no more!" If she'd gone and committed adulatery again and then sought Jesus' forgiveness....would that not be intentional sin and then after Jesus' death anyone doing that would be crucifying Him all over again? I'm asking, not stating!
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 15, 2008 22:17:38 GMT -5
An intentional sin does not by any means automaticly send someone to hell. However depending on a number of things we might be treading on thin ice. You might (not trying to pick on Hs here) be in a homosexual relationship and know deep down that it is wrong but feel you just cant help yourself and might very well give some good reasons to verify your actions. So what do you do? Its like you are caught up in something that apparantly is out of your control.
Or for example you may be like me who has a similar issue in principle. There are times where I willfully sin, I sin in advance if you like, I know its wrong and that it grieves God (The Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ) but I still do it and quite frankly it really pi---- me off because I dont want to do it. But its like I am compelled (almost) to do it, that, that particular sin has a hold over me.
This has happened in many different areas of my life and there are many sins I no longer commit because I have been delivered from them.
You see the fact is there is very little we can do ourselves except to throw ourselves at Jesus and say, "I cannot do these things your way...that you speak of in the bible ect, its too hard, its your problem Jesus, You help me!"
You see thats the whole point. When we ask Jesus to help us, when we admit we are nothing but sinners, when we agree to give ourselves over to Jesus something amazing happens. He gives us a portion of His suppernatural power and we start to feel different inside.
If the lady had gone and commited adultary again and had come back to Jesus for forgivness, and was as sincere as she could be under her present state of mind and capabilities she would definately be forgiven -no doubt whatsoever!
Here is the problem though: many people think they can sin regardless, say sorry to Jesus and not really mean it, like they have no real intention about changing their ways because their heart when it comes down to it is not for following Jesus at all but is in fact following after themselves. These people are in serious trouble. If you are one of these people get right with God now while you can, before its too late. I hope this helps evryone who reads it.
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