|
Post by James Durston on Feb 5, 2007 19:22:37 GMT -5
Are the Friends, Workers & Meetings a CULT?
|
|
|
Post by whimpie on Feb 5, 2007 19:34:02 GMT -5
Yes, They are. They teach that "they are the "Kingdom of God on Earth". They teach all others are false They use all manner of coersion (fear, guilt, shame, lies, etc....) They use the tools of the flesh, not the tools of the Spirit, Hope Faith, and Charity. They suck the life out of their victims, paralyzing them, then devouring them and their lives for the sake of their own vanity. If you refuse to be devoured by them, they say you will burn in hell. (But they say that behind your back mostly) Cause they are afraid to say the Truth. They fear the words of others, cause they use words to control their victims. They teach a gospel of fear................ ![:'(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cry.png)
|
|
|
Post by Bert unlogged on Feb 5, 2007 19:49:14 GMT -5
They were called a "sect" back then, ie the "Sect of the Nazarenes." It was a derrogatory term. What is the difference between "sect" and "cult"? Can't tell, really. But if any name or title means reproach then that's fine - the bible says you must confront that.
|
|
|
Post by JonathanMarion on Feb 5, 2007 19:52:28 GMT -5
HELL NO
|
|
|
Post by Thank you on Feb 5, 2007 19:54:42 GMT -5
Yes, They are. They teach that "they are the "Kingdom of God on Earth". They teach all others are false They use all manner of coersion (fear, guilt, shame, lies, etc....) They use the tools of the flesh, not the tools of the Spirit, Hope Faith, and Charity. They suck the life out of their victims, paralyzing them, then devouring them and their lives for the sake of their own vanity. If you refuse to be devoured by them, they say you will burn in hell. (But they say that behind your back mostly) Cause they are afraid to say the Truth. They fear the words of others, cause they use words to control their victims. They teach a gospel of fear................ ![:'(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cry.png) Thank you for confirming this for James. He is desperate to have someone, anyone, acknowledge his belief system. Any group can be defined as a cult if you use enough varied definitions. Christianity, for example, fits most of the cult definitions. But the F&W are certainly a cult. There are buildings on farms in various rural of the country where people who have not yet lost their minds are kept in rooms where they are brainwashed day and night until they admit it is the only way and all others are wrong. Last month 3 people escaped in Manitoba and workers were pulled from their fields to track them down and return them to the "re-education rooms". Jim - you are on to something. Or on something. Keep up the good work.
|
|
|
Post by whimpie on Feb 5, 2007 21:09:27 GMT -5
Yes, They are. They teach that "they are the "Kingdom of God on Earth". They teach all others are false They use all manner of coersion (fear, guilt, shame, lies, etc....) They use the tools of the flesh, not the tools of the Spirit, Hope Faith, and Charity. They suck the life out of their victims, paralyzing them, then devouring them and their lives for the sake of their own vanity. If you refuse to be devoured by them, they say you will burn in hell. (But they say that behind your back mostly) Cause they are afraid to say the Truth. They fear the words of others, cause they use words to control their victims. They teach a gospel of fear................ ![:'(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cry.png) Thank you for confirming this for James. He is desperate to have someone, anyone, acknowledge his belief system. Any group can be defined as a cult if you use enough varied definitions. Christianity, for example, fits most of the cult definitions. But the F&W are certainly a cult. There are buildings on farms in various rural of the country where people who have not yet lost their minds are kept in rooms where they are brainwashed day and night until they admit it is the only way and all others are wrong. Last month 3 people escaped in Manitoba and workers were pulled from their fields to track them down and return them to the "re-education rooms". Jim - you are on to something. Or on something. Keep up the good work. I guess you have to experience Jesus spiritually away from the 2x2's before the workers get their blinding poisoning gospel injected into you. Some have it before they come across the 2x2's and others have to overcome and outgrow the 2x2's, cause the workers can not afford for you to "outgrow" them. God loves to teach his children. Why let a bunch of pretentious, wannabes ruin your life? The workers can't teach what they don't know. Unfortunately they can't afford to be wrong so they never are. They are full of excuses, and rationalization, but no testimony of Jesus, just being a 2x2 is all they need to aspire to. People are staking their souls on the workers, not Jesus..... Now that is sad. (if your looking for something to cry about still) Jesus is the answer, not the workers............... ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
|
|
|
Post by James Durston on Feb 6, 2007 2:26:46 GMT -5
Now as far as the question: Is this a cult? – I would ask you to get a bit more personnel and say: Am I in a cult? ………and be serious about it! (I am primarily focussing on the Friends and Workers here although it would be aplicable to other groups)
There is probably little point at this moment than to just accuse one another of being in a cult, and on the other hand just as blatantly saying: “There is no way this is a cult”. Most of us are somewhat sick of this adjective so I am going to use it as least as I can.
What you might reason to yourselves is: …..well I profess that I want to go to heaven and I profess that I love and serve Jesus Christ……and you might be really bold and reason that if Jesus Christ is number one in your life (like I’m sure you do) you will be prepared to leave and forsake all to be where Jesus wants you to be.
|
|
|
Post by For James on Feb 6, 2007 2:36:04 GMT -5
Are the Friends, Workers & Meetings a CULT? You should approach this in a logical way. First determine if Christianity is a cult and then examine the subgroups of Christianity.
|
|
|
Post by Why oh why on Feb 6, 2007 3:09:24 GMT -5
Why oh why do people pick on those Christians who choose to worship in the 2x2s? Thos of us who are not in a cult? Those of us who worship our Lord and Savior first, who are in debt to the unmerited grace bestowed on us by the gift of salvation that we know of now?? Those who do not worship man, but God, who are not shamed by a history since 1896, but who find peace in the meeting in the home, not insisting that it be the same for all or that any other way is wrong?
Why?
|
|
|
Post by James Durston on Feb 6, 2007 3:44:09 GMT -5
Ok, I want to get straight to the point of all this without getting too sidetracked.
The first thing is that Christianity is not a cult. There is no question about this. On this point there is no contest. If we entertain this idea we are allowing confusion into our minds.
....the Bible is very clear on the definition of what a Christian is and it is not open to interpretation. When we say Christian we are referring 100% to biblical teaching. By Christian we mean “Christ in us”.
Cults are cursed with manipulation and control. This is absolutely against the Word of God. This is precisely what God does not want. Manipulation and control are most definitely from satan!
This is not about picking on the Friends, Workers and meetings. This is about Jesus Christ and what He says. Let us determine by the Word of God what is right and what is wrong. As I have said I do not want to use the word cult because I think it is unhelpful.
Let us see and discuss the word "cult" and see if it is deserving of the Friends, workers and meetings. If after "beyond any reasonable doubt" a conclusion is made and the word "cult" is not deserving I for one will reconsider its application.
|
|
|
Post by weird on Feb 6, 2007 5:02:37 GMT -5
No person is attempting to control what I think or do. Then I must be in a cult. People do just about anything they please....Oh, that is wrong to, they hould let people tell them what to do , I think YOU are confused, my friend... ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) hmmm, weird thread you have started ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png)
|
|
|
Post by well then on Feb 6, 2007 5:06:31 GMT -5
No person is attempting to control what I think or do. Then I must be in a cult. People do just about anything they please, in this 'cult'... Oh, but then that is wrong too, they should let people tell them what to do. I think YOU are confused, my friend... ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) hmmm, weird thread you have started ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png)
|
|
|
Post by OzE on Feb 6, 2007 5:20:49 GMT -5
A Christian cult typically:
Adds to the Word of God
Subtracts from the person and work of Jesus Christ
Multiplies the conditions for salvation
Divides between themselves and all other Christians.
|
|
|
Post by cult too on Feb 6, 2007 9:14:39 GMT -5
Brad Lewis, Wimple, Edgar Massey and James Dunston kind of have their own cult going. It's the cult of bitter anger. Spew out vague accusations and find validation in finding a few that can relate. Group think at it's finest where facts don't even matter.
|
|
|
Post by diet coke on Feb 6, 2007 16:10:45 GMT -5
"Cult" is obviously a dirty word with lots of feelings attached. Let's get a full definition on the board, so we can decide objectively. Anybody know? I, too, suspect we'll find most religion cultish. But then, I've seen silly definitions such as "a cult claims that Jesus is not God", which lets mainstream Christianity off the hook.
|
|
|
Post by The Fool on Feb 6, 2007 17:20:39 GMT -5
If this is such a terrible cult then why did you join up twice James?
Fool me once shame on you .... fool me twice shame on me!
|
|
|
Post by James Durston on Feb 6, 2007 18:08:43 GMT -5
Oh my goodness, I think I have oppened a can of worms! I'm not against you guys, I just want to chat about a few things that bother me.
|
|
|
Post by diet coke on Feb 6, 2007 18:20:28 GMT -5
lol...be honest, James, you don't care whether this is a "cult" by some convoluted defintion or not. You wanna know if we are all brainwashed, simpled-minded followers. Kind of like the original apostles.
Ask the bitter people outside and you'll get one answer. Ask the happy people inside and you'll get another. Sorry, man, it just ain't that easy.
|
|
This aint easy either
Guest
|
Post by This aint easy either on Feb 6, 2007 18:28:01 GMT -5
Ask the bitter people outside and you'll get one answer. Ask the happy people inside and you'll get another. Sorry, man, it just ain't that easy.
It can't be easy using such a big, broad brush to make those big, broad brush strokes either, man.
|
|
|
Post by James Durston on Feb 6, 2007 18:45:38 GMT -5
To be honest with you guys I am a very busy person and don’t have a lot of time to spend but I can prove a few interesting things that will challenge the honest hearted of you.
I am wanting to comprise a list of well known ‘religious groups’ (if I can use those words for sake of argument) who ‘profess Christianity’ (weather they are or not is a different topic to talk about) and unanimously state that if you are to be with Jesus Christ for all eternity, (to enter into heaven) you have to be in [color=Red‘their way!’ [/color]
Jehovah Witnesses, Exclusive brethren, Mormons and Christadelphians are but a few………and I will add one more; The Church with no Name (The Friends and Workers)
Now all these guys have something very much in common: They all believe to enter into Heaven you have to be in their way! My question to you is: WHY do they all believe this?
|
|
|
Post by diet coke on Feb 6, 2007 18:53:06 GMT -5
My question to you is: WHY do they all believe this?
ahhh, now we're getting somewhere. This has nothing to do with cults after all. Why did the Hebrews originally turn to Monotheim? Perhaps because it keeps them banded together, which they desperately needed: An "our God is better than your gods" attitude. An identity.
Besides, it works.
|
|
|
Post by James Durston on Feb 6, 2007 20:52:21 GMT -5
The first thing is that Christianity is not a cult. There is no question about this. On this point there is no contest. If we entertain this idea we are allowing confusion into our minds.
....the Bible is very clear on the definition of what a Christian is and it is not open to interpretation. When we say Christian we are referring 100% to biblical teaching. By Christian we mean “Christ in us”.
Cults are cursed with manipulation and control. This is absolutely against the Word of God. This is precisely what God does not want. Manipulation and control are most definitely from satan!
This is not about picking on the Friends, Workers and meetings. This is about Jesus Christ and what He says. Let us determine by the Word of God what is right and what is wrong. As I have said I do not want to use the word cult because I think it is unhelpful.
Let us see and discuss these issues and see if the adjective c--- is deserving of the Friends, workers and meetings. If after "beyond any reasonable doubt" a conclusion is made and the word "cult" is not deserving I for one will reconsider its application.
At some point, if we already have not, we need to totaly accept the above as a fundemental truth of Christianity. By haveing this understanding it will give us a base to work from --and by the way, the above can be verified by Biblical scholars---this is not my idea but what the Bible teaches us!
If we experience or witness control and other 'problems' as a Christian or an observor there is something wrong at a particular point. This can be on a particular aspect or on a cluster of things and at some point one would hope it can be adressed and corrected. But dont forget the Christian walk is a journey!
|
|
|
Post by James Durston on Feb 6, 2007 23:40:45 GMT -5
…well I have had a run in with Observing before and what ever I say will be wrong. It reminds me of the Pharisees and hypocrites. …legalistic…cross the T’s and dot the I’s!! From what Observing says I wonder if he is a Christian…if he is truly saved!
There is little point in arguing with this man but I will reinforce a couple of things. The first is that I do not need to qualify because my Bible does that for me!
The first thing is that Christianity is not a cult. There is no question about this. On this point there is no contest. If we entertain this idea we are allowing confusion into our minds.
....the Bible is very clear on the definition of what a Christian is and it is not open to interpretation. When we say Christian we are referring 100% to biblical teaching. By Christian we mean “Christ in us”.
Observing said, “Of course it is open to interpretation. No where in the Bible is Christian defined as "Christ in us". This is a synthesis you (and without doubt others) have developed. It is your interpretation”.
OF COURSE CHRISTIAN MEANS “CHRIST IN US”. What do you do when you accept Jesus Christ? You accept Him into your heart, for Him to be your Lord and Saviour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I had an electric cattle prod and was standing next to Observing I know exactly what I would do with it! Wake up man before it is too late because right now I would say your name has been blotted out! You do not understand the Word of God by a long shot as you have demonstrated time and again. Deal with your PRIDE!!
|
|
|
Post by Hove 2 on Feb 7, 2007 2:44:28 GMT -5
James Durston I cannot beleive you.
You declare who is saved and who is not. (as if YOU were God)
You make assertions without justification then claim them to be fact and say "on this there is no contest". You deny any reasonable examination of your assertions, while at the same time tearing down the assertions of others.
In many ways you are as ad as those silly 2x2s you preach about.
You claim Christianity, but you don't show it.
|
|
|
Post by James Durston on Feb 7, 2007 4:04:10 GMT -5
…well believe it Hove 2 because I stand by every word! Christianity is NOT a cult and on this point there is NO contest!!!
One of the hallmarks of a cult is that it is cursed with manipulation and control…..This is the opposite of Faith,…it is Fear…which is of the devil!! Wether you like to accept it or not it is the truth.
I am not declaring who is saved or not but if you look at Observing he is declaring that himself! He is doing the work of satan wether he realises this or not. His talk is anti-Christ!!
I do claim Christianity and I am already seated in Heavenly places. If I offend you…..build a bridge and get over it!!
For too long people have got the wrong idea of Christianity! A lot of you guys just want nice non offensive answers and this does not help any one! What happens if you die tonight never knowing the truth about things or did not want too because you where afraid of being offended or offending people. It is not my wish to offend you but if it does that is something for you to overcome.
…Let me tell you guys something. I have literally been to hell. The Holy Spirit took me there. YOU DO NOT WANT TO GO TO HELL!!! It is a real place of unimaginable torment. A lot of you guys reading this and hopefully a lot more will wake up to reality while you can!!
…and while I am talking I have little respect for you hove 2 because like observing you hide behind a mask. There comes a point when the mask has to come off! Take on some respect and accountability and let us all know who you are!!
|
|
|
Post by jason s on Feb 7, 2007 4:27:04 GMT -5
If you are a disenfranchised, dissafected, or disinfected member of what around here is known as X-ism...then indeed 2x2ism is a cult. If you are a true believer....that is a believer in certain claims that proclaim 2x2ism is indeed the one true...and excluse... Christian Church of God...then...well...
...it is left unto the individual to decide for his or her self...the merits of...either persuasion...
...unless, or until, The Lord...or Jesus Christ...returns... yet again unto earth... or into the rece[tove hearts of Mankind...
...verily look within yourself for truth...for within you is the essence of sacred knowledge & wisdom...
...pray & meditate... & never close your mind to all possibilities. Listen to the voice that hammers gently within your mind...listen to that intuitive whisper that incessently urges, you in your quiet time...to throw open the doors of your soul to what it already knows.
|
|
|
Post by Geoff on Feb 7, 2007 4:56:20 GMT -5
I'll join this discussion if I may..
And not from any point of anonymity, I post under my own name.
James your assertion about there being no contest in opinion not fact. You might hold that opinion so strongly that you think it to be fact, but it isn't, and if you can't see that, it speaks more about you that the point of argument.
I happen to agree that Christianit is not a cult. But From my own experience I also claim (opinion here again, mine this time) that 2x2ism is also not a cult. You might have experienced a cult in this fellowship, I have not. You might have had some historical facts withheld from you, I have not had the experience.
Your statement "I am not declaring who is saved or not but if you look at Observing he is declaring that himself! He is doing the work of satan wether he realises this or not. His talk is anti-Christ!! "... (spelling not corrected) is self contradictory. You say you're not condemning this poster (anonymous too like most of the pot stirrers here), then proceed to condemn him/her as an agent of Satan.
I agree that Christianity is not about pussyfooting about with semantics, and saying nice cosy words to comfort people, but neither is it about showing an obvious hatred for lost souls. I suspect that there are two main camps of anonymous posters. Those who just stir the pot for entertainment (and I personally know some of them and am trying to do something about that), and those who are genuinely lost and seeking.
You manage to try to avoid a Christian responsibility by saying "It is not my wish to offend you but if it does that is something for you to overcome. "
You could have reworded this as "If I offend you, thats tough. Live with it" You don't need to be offensive. Direct and to the point - yes. Uncompromising in your Christianity- yes. Bit Offensive - no. And it doesn't help to say you don't mean to be when you continue to knowingly be so.
You post with a level of arrogance that is understandable but unacceptable. example "well believe it Hove 2 because I stand by every word" This says ... "because I am saying it, it must be right". To the average reader who has no idea who you are, this is arrogance. You could have worded this a lot better and get a better result.
Your comment "What happens if you die tonight never knowing the truth about things or did not want too because you where afraid of being offended or offending people..." seems to imply salvation by "what we know", or "saved by knowledge". I reject that works based salvation as unscriptural. We are not saved by what we know.
so... there's a bit of my arrogance back to you. My message is: If you're trying to do something to spread Christianity you are using an ineffective method. If you just want to get peoples backs up, you're doing fine.
|
|
|
Post by James Durston on Feb 7, 2007 7:01:02 GMT -5
Ok Geoff….these are your opinions.
Christianity as taught in the Bible by the example of Jesus Christ is not a cult. This is undisputed and there is no contest. The people that disagree with this are deceived like your self.
You have to understand (which you do not) that a cult is a cult because it has the hallmarks of control and manipulation. This is of the devil, it is fear based and is the opposite of Faith which is of Jesus Christ.
The fact you say the 2x2 is not a cult…well that is the purpose of this thread…which I am going to prove what it is.
You see…..you are one of the Friends…telling me what I should or should not say….or how I should say it….and yet you miss the mark….major on minors….control and manipulation!! Dot the I’s and cross the T’s!! …You have even pointed out my spelling mistakes!
WE ARE SAVED BY KNOWING AND BELIEVING AND ACCEPTING AND RECEIVING THAT JESUS CHRIST IS IN OUR HEARTS AND THAT HE IS OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR!!
You are mistaken Geoff, there is not an obvious hatred for lost souls. On the contrary I love these people and this is why I choose to try and WAKE them up!!!
|
|