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Post by Sharon on Nov 1, 2008 18:55:08 GMT -5
"The fact remains that these people are NOT liveing within the light of their conscience......"
I take issue with that broad statement...I face my conscience more then a dozen times a day! If not more! Otherwords, I think I might just run right over my neighbor! Sue those who've wronged me in my lifetime! Take my fellow man to court because he was stupid one day in my presence! Also just be mean in particular...I wouldn't care one whit for anyone else's needs or feelings at all...........do you think I'd then make a very good nurse? eh? I also know many in the fellowship who pay sharp heed if not overconscientious! Just because there's things some of us don't quite "get" yet, don't lump us up into someone who doesn't see in the light of their own conscience. That is really judging a fellow man!
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 1, 2008 23:09:51 GMT -5
No I am afraid on this point I cant agree with you Siwells. Look the fact is that after a time you may begin too see one or two things that dont add up. When I left this group in 2000 my wife and I went to a 'normal' church for about 3 years. By the end of that time I realized they had got things unaceptably wrong. There is what I call the cult of penticostalism with all their control and prosperity b----hit. We have moved on....like many of us we are on a journey and if your heart is in the right place God will lead you where He wants. I reckon you are one of those people
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 2, 2008 2:10:05 GMT -5
Ram, I have just been reading some of your recent posts, man what planet are you on?.... I have not got the fogiest what you are talking about...........
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2008 4:15:00 GMT -5
As I said before Jimmy, we're on the same wavelength.
Maybe it was one of your "lesser prophecies," no ?
Anyway, stick around. You brighten up the board.
Take care. Please let me know if there are any reports of the Taz Tiger still being around.
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 2, 2008 12:12:04 GMT -5
Hi there, ariandgabe, I am curious, and wonder if you consider yourself a sinner before God or not?
Alvin
Thank you ‘slowtosee’ (you have no idea how I can associate with that name. It took me 40 years to finally ‘see’ what God has been pointing at, the Bible, to answer all my questions and to finally be able to go in and out of His kingdom)
I will try to explain how it is that I came to this answer, and it is NOT meant to insinuate that you don’t understand what is to be a sinner before God or not. This is so you see where I come from. (also it includes Siwells question, sort of)
You asked; “you consider yourself a sinner before God or not?”
No. Thanks be to the blood of the Lamb which I use daily to cleanse myself, and since you caught me at a good time since I have not committed a sin for about 12 hours now, (6 of that was sleeping though)
Rev 7:14-15 So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. NKJV
If I had an open ‘un-repented' sin, I would ‘repent’ of it, wash my sins away with the blood of the Lamb, and once again walk before my God acceptable, where He can look at me and tolerate me. While in the flesh, I have to die daily. Every time sin comes alive in me, and since it is in the flesh that we sin, I ‘kill’ it again and again.
1 Cor 15:30-32 30 And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? 31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. NKJV
Rom 8:13-14 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. NKJV
Rom 4:6-8 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin." NKJV
Unlike what is called Christianity today, they are content to ‘live’ in sin and not repent of it. They think that Christ will somehow die for them again on THAT DAY, or something. Not only do they ‘live’ in sin, but also tolerate it, as you can see with our friend Gene Nelson here who is a homosexual and ‘proud of it’, and the so-called Christians tolerate his sin and many even ‘condone’ it, as you can see. They blame God for not being more understandable in the scriptures regarding homosexuality.
1 Cor 6:18-20 18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's. NKJV
Heb 13:12-14 12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate. 13 Therefore let us go forth to Him, outside the camp, bearing His reproach. 14 For here we have no continuing city, but we seek the one to come.
This does NOT mean I don’t sin, or fall to ‘sin’. I fall daily. Looking at things I should not and evil thoughts pop in my head, I say things I have to apologize for;
1 John 1:8-10 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. NKJV
Siwells, here are some sins that we cannot remain in and expect to enter His Kingdom:
1 Cor 6:9-11 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. NKJV
So what I understand that I’m supposed to do in this case is; ‘repent’ and try not to do it anymore. I don’t mean like going on my knees at night and say; ‘sorry God for all my sins, amen.’ And that’s it. If I stole let’s say a quarter from the secretaries desk at work, I am to go back and tell her (confess) what I have done (I found that this is also a good example to an unbeliever which could entice her to turn to God) give the money back, (making the hills low and the valleys ‘something stolen’ filled up again) another words, ‘making my path straight’.
It is a daily battle, a war against Principalities and the Powers of Darkness;
Eph 6:12 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. NKJV
I hope this answers your question; ‘if I consider myself a sinner before God or not?’
For now, I must always ‘stay on guard’ and if I have sinned and would remain in my sin without repenting, then my conscience on what I know to be sin (the Ten Commandments and the laws of the Prophets) would convict me, and I WOULD consider myself a sinner before my God and would ‘avoid’ talking about ‘sin’, would even get mad at those that do talk about it.
I lived like that for many years, untill I unloaded it all on my Good Master. He's tough and asked to carry it for me, so why should I continue to bear a burden He is willing to take from me?
God bless you Alvin, Your friend in Christ: Odon
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Post by slowtosee on Nov 2, 2008 16:27:31 GMT -5
Hi there, Odon, Thank you for your reasoned reply to my question. I have to admit, I suspected that you did not consider yourself a sinner, but I was not sure. For myself, I feel I stand on dangerous ground when I consider MYSELF as being right with God on ANYTHING I have or have NOT done, but one's righteousness can ONLY come through Jesus and HIS righteousness, as a propitiation for MY sins before God. If I ever think I am not a sinner, for a moment, I feel I have automatically sinned. Paul , after his conversion, said of himself "sinners, of whom I am chielf"- present tense. Of course, one does not try to deliberately sin, and I can understand a person saying I have not deliberately sinned in the last few hours, but sin, comes in MANY different forms than some physical act. My thoughts, CONSTANTLY keep me from being righteous, and it seems like Jesus was trying to tell the self-righteous Pharisees this, when he told them that " That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. " Okay, using the verse you quoted , of sins that will keep us out of the kingdom of God , adultery is mentioned. Well, if I am honest about myself , I am an adulterer , in my heart, a SINNER , and if I can't admit that , I am a liar on top of it. I don't want to be, and I don't act on my sinful thought, but I am a sinner, according to Jesus words. Once, I have established THAT fact in my mind, it is easier to forgive the sins in others , and not have such a hard and unforgiving spirit towards them. SIN is SIN, and let's not pussyfoot around that, but how can I , as a sinner, condemn another sinner. A while ago, we were in a service in Europe with an Arab man who grew up in Israel and fellowshipped with believing Jews . I asked him , "how is this possible?". His simple reply was "not but by the grace of God". MAJOR differences in lifestyle, culture, beliefs etc. etc. , and yet they could fellowship together as believers in JESUS CHRIST. He said something , that to me seems quite profound . He spoke broken English, but it was to the effect " I refuse to be angry or condemn other people, because their sins are different than mine". What made it even more interesting was, that he was asked to be a guest speaker at a VERY legalistic "only way' type of believers gathering, who obviously had fallen into the trap of "I am right, you are wrong" type of christianity " He spoke exclusively that it is by GRACE we are saved, NOT by works- just no getting around it. So if I am saved by grace from MY sins, how can I stand in judgement of my brother and tell him that the grace of God is NOT sufficient for yours. I have soooooooooooooo much to learn and feel very much that my "handle", slowtosee, is very fitting. Thanks again, Odon, look forward to your reply, in HIM , Alvin Kroeker Birch River, MB
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Post by Sharon on Nov 2, 2008 22:29:14 GMT -5
No I am afraid on this point I cant agree with you Siwells. Look the fact is that after a time you may begin too see one or two things that dont add up. When I left this group in 2000 my wife and I went to a 'normal' church for about 3 years. By the end of that time I realized they had got things unaceptably wrong. There is what I call the cult of penticostalism with all their control and prosperity b----hit. We have moved on....like many of us we are on a journey and if your heart is in the right place God will lead you where He wants. I reckon you are one of those people Oh, I see things that don't add up...but that doesn't mean I cannot know my God and my Saviour to the best I can...the fellowship is only that...fellowship...it holds nothing so vital that would eliminate my need to be in constant contact with my God...I love my times with God when no one else is around to intervene, etc. But you know, jwd....I'm finding so much that's wrong or gone wrong within the testimony as they say...but it's the same in many other churches that I've known about or have searched out! It all comes down to man's ideas, and man's ideas becoming so prevalent that they become doctrine....that brings me back to what Paul said about women's hair etc...he did finally go on to say we have no such doctrine! It was his idea on what was appropriate, etc but it was not a doctrinal issue! Thank you
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 2, 2008 23:40:44 GMT -5
God bless you Siwells
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 3, 2008 8:39:51 GMT -5
Before I start submitting hard evidence for what is really going on in this world I just want to quickly talk about my parents who are part of this group. For the past ten years I have been telling them how wrong this ‘way’ is and quite frankly it has not worked and I do not believe by me saying this and that and pointing out facts and other “proofs” will ever make any difference for them. They are in their twilight years and all I can do is pray and love them for who they are which is what I do. When opportunities come up to tell them things I gently try and prize them open a bit or as much as they let me. When they stand before God…well its between them and God and if they have lived within the light of their conscience and the knowledge that they have and all the rest of it who I am to judge. You see at the end of the day I have to put the ball back in their court. I often wonder why God has allowed me to see and not my parents or is it because of my parents stubborn heart or something else?........One big eye opener to me in recent time is that there are many professing Christians out their and its really how we handle ourselves in the light of our conscience, you see God may not have revealed Himself to them in the same way as you and I. God probably to some degree at least planned it that way because God is so diverse. The more we know the more accountable before God we become. Its actually very sobering because at the end of the day we have to stand alone before God and live out our Christian life the way we believe He is telling us and it can be very different to the next person (and hard). This does not mean by any account we should hold back from telling the truth, indeed this is a necessary for a closer walk with God and as we share the truth the listener has the opportunity to change or progress.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2008 9:39:10 GMT -5
James, I wouldn't worry too much about your parents. For a start there is NO perfect church (group). The F&W's group certainly has cultic influences that can be destructive for many compliant and sensitive people, but for others it has little or no effect. All other church groups have their drawbacks also.
Earlier generations can tended to put up and shut up with problems in their midst. The F&W's church started in an era where everyone did what they were told without question. It didn't matter if your master in the workplace was wrong, his word was law. This was the same in every aspect of life during the Victorian era and over the 100 years or so since, things have gradually changed in our society. Unfortunately much of this Victorian trait remains in the F&W's sect. The Worker (master) is always right, even when they are clearly wrong. It's all down to the "don't speak back mentality" and the elevated platform they have been placed upon.
It will be far easier for your parents to accept things as they are and ignore any controversy than it will be for you.
I have no problem with your parents' salvation. However, the system will have burdened them more than made them free. All other sects have unChristian traits, e.g. my own (Baptist) church has a "members' role" and it is only members who can have a say in church business. I'm not a member yet they accept me as a full member of the body of Christ attending their church but because of an unscriptural demand I cannot participate in matters of the church.
However, I have yet to find anything with adverse cultic influences in my current church.
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Post by Sharon on Nov 3, 2008 10:06:17 GMT -5
Before I start submitting hard evidence for what is really going on in this world I just want to quickly talk about my parents who are part of this group. For the past ten years I have been telling them how wrong this ‘way’ is and quite frankly it has not worked and I do not believe by me saying this and that and pointing out facts and other “proofs” will ever make any difference for them. They are in their twilight years and all I can do is pray and love them for who they are which is what I do. When opportunities come up to tell them things I gently try and prize them open a bit or as much as they let me. When they stand before God…well its between them and God and if they have lived within the light of their conscience and the knowledge that they have and all the rest of it who I am to judge. You see at the end of the day I have to put the ball back in their court. I often wonder why God has allowed me to see and not my parents or is it because of my parents stubborn heart or something else?........One big eye opener to me in recent time is that there are many professing Christians out their and its really how we handle ourselves in the light of our conscience, you see God may not have revealed Himself to them in the same way as you and I. God probably to some degree at least planned it that way because God is so diverse. The more we know the more accountable before God we become. Its actually very sobering because at the end of the day we have to stand alone before God and live out our Christian life the way we believe He is telling us and it can be very different to the next person (and hard). This does not mean by any account we should hold back from telling the truth, indeed this is a necessary for a closer walk with God and as we share the truth the listener has the opportunity to change or progress. This reminded me what an English professor from Yale University said to his creative works class.....if you're going to "critique" something it'll be received a lot better if you have a "suggestion" for improvement. And you know I found this true in every walk of life that I've had the privilege of knowing about. But then the old hat trick on that is if we've once criticized someone or something they're involved in, they may never open again to more positive suggestions, facts, etc. That too is just human nature....people don't like to be told how or what or when but they do like to hear the why...most usually that is!
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Post by Sharon on Nov 3, 2008 10:11:31 GMT -5
"I have no problem with your parents' salvation. However, the system will have burdened them more than made them free."
Jesus told the Jews that the scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat and they did bind grievious burdens on them...but He also told them to observe and do what those who sit in Moses' seat bid them to observe and do....then later He goes on to say of the different woes unto the scribes and Pharisees.....I think those in the fellowship that are burdened unnecessarily won't be asked to pay for that, when all in all their heart's desires was to love the Lord their God with all their heart, with all their mind and with all their soul. Those who've bound with grievious and unnecessary burdens are the ones who'll anwser for that. JMHOP!
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 3, 2008 18:02:12 GMT -5
siwells It was his idea on what was appropriate, etc but it was not a doctrinal issue!
No, it was just a FACT of life. The long hair was originally given to Eve as a 'covering', so she will always be reminded that 'she was made for man, and NOT man for woman'. so 'nature itself' teaches that. “15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering.” (Before Eve sinned, the sign of ‘submission’ the long hair that God put on her, He made as a beautiful ‘glory’ for her. There was no need to shame her, just to remind her who was in authority, Adam)
But after she sinned, she needed another reminder that she should have asked her husband before she went and done something stupid and as devastating as looking (tasting) and then touching and eating (Satan making her talk with him and giving her ideas on how sweet it would be to be ‘like God’, the same thing that he did to the angels in heaven) of the ‘tree of good and evil’.
So the second covering (scarf or whatever) over her long hair is to remind her that she not only was 'made for man and should be under his authority (1st covering long hair), 8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. but that she screwed up by stepping over his authority, and she should never do that again (2nd covering scarf) and God asked that to be done when she is praying or prophesying. (to show the Lord that she knows her place)
OR, shave her head. This was the ultimate sign of submission, done to women when they committed a grave sin, or under self punishment or when under an oath before the Lord God. But if it is too shameful for her to shave, then cover her long hair (also a sign of the loss of glory)
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 3, 2008 20:16:15 GMT -5
I appreciate what you just said ram. I do worry time to time about the salvation of my parents but one has to draw the line and leave it with them and God.
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Post by landdownunder on Nov 4, 2008 7:15:57 GMT -5
hey James I appreciate what you've been saying, your attitude. Also agree with you about what you called the cult of penticostalism with all their control and prosperity stuff. Many of them seem to worship the gifts rather than the giver.
I think ram did an excellent job of explaining why the older generation often have closed minds. What is the explanation or solution when younger people have the same attitude, minds closed?
I liked what you said too about us all having different degrees of revelation and all being different from each other. We should celebrate the diversity, rather than making it a barrier to separate us all. Cheers.
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Post by shushy on Nov 4, 2008 19:39:56 GMT -5
We become enpassioned in our zeal to help others, in doing so we often tread on their toes. Then God shows us how bolshy we are and we end up falling on our face. I love the fact he loves us, is patient and faithful. A God worth knowing. Alive and consistent. For all our faults, obnoxious ways and lack of hearing abilities, because we try he remains merciful,compassionate and understanding towards us.
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 4, 2008 19:58:50 GMT -5
There is a designed plan at bringing the world to the same level. Nations are opting out of the $ at a startling rate. The reserve currency for those that don’t know is something for a tough time or rainy day. The $ has always been used as the reserve currency, you could always depend on the US$ but NOT ant more!!
The world is scared to death of the extremely de-valued $.......9.34 trillion in debt. They are not trusting in T-bills and credit any longer. The world is no longer using the $ as world currency.
Six months ago countries stopped using the US $ as a reserve. These are the countries: China, Kuwait, Switzerland, Ecuador, Syria, Libya, South Korea, Argentine, Iran, Russia, Malaysia, and Brazil.
This was all planed in advance; “they” knew exactly what they were going to do!
Iran who supposedly has the 3rd largest oil field declared “we don’t want your US $, we are making our own”. They have now established their own bank successfully!
Countries who have joined Iran no longer use US$ as trade of crude oil. Iran will not allow an American $ to be used in their banks at all.
These countries have jumped ship: Venezuela %6 US oil supplies said, “no more US, we are finished”. Nigeria 2.6 million barrels a day….”we want another currency now”……Bolivia and then…oh my goodness…..along came Russia. As of November last year Russia equalled Saudi Arabia in crude oil output……….Humungous ramifications.
When the currency of the world is crude oil as it is today and these countries refuse to endorse the US $ where does that leave the $ to go? It becomes worthless. When the $ becomes worthless what happens to the US public?
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Post by Sharon on Nov 4, 2008 20:44:32 GMT -5
"A hundred years ago the arabs were nothing bit nomads roaming the desert andthen America got involved with their oil. There is no shortage of oil, there are many unused oil fields, USA have there own but cant use them because the price would be too cheep and they have built their economy on oil from other countries. Out of all the total wealth in the World USA have to have at least %17 just to break even..............USA is currently bankrupt..........watch out for the moeving into of The New World Government."
Precisely, the Arabs have "bought" the world...thus back to Egypt we all go....but "Egypt" will be a symbol of the New World Order and its government.
"but if we were following the prophetic timeline ofthe OT wouldn't we be well into it by now?"
The prophetic timeline is simply this "when the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled." That is now and probably coming to an end through the New World Government! The prophecy for Christ's return is that "all nations shall gather in battle against Israel." That means those nations who've been allies of Israel will turn against them....Sad part of it is that Judah, the "royal" tribe of Israel will also gather in battle against Israel! That's in Zech. 14....
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Post by sapphire on Nov 4, 2008 21:30:34 GMT -5
jwbdurston wrote: The way I see it, we are each on a personal journey in our walk with God... and we're not all at the same place in our journey. We're each responsible for our own relationship with the Lord. Not someone else's. I'm reminded of 1 Cor. 12 many times: v. 4: Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. v. 5: And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord, v. 6: And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
Some of us are still attending the F&W meetings, and enjoying the fellowship there. Some of us attend other churches, and enjoy fellowship there. But no matter where we go or don't go, if we don't have a relationship with God, it doesn't profit a thing. For some people, I'd say the F&W fellowship is a cult. For some it isn't. For some people, other churches could be a cult to them. It depends whether we're worshipping Christ, or just the form or system itself. What is our first love? And you know what, I've realized I can't judge what someone else's first love is. Maybe I can see that they really love their church, or the fellowship meetings... but I can't see the secret part of their service before God... so I can't see which they love the most... but God can. 1 Cor. goes on to talk about the different members of the body, and different gifts. God doesn't call us all to serve in the same place within the body of Christ... and He doesn't give us all the same gifts... but each member who loves Him can still be lead by His spirit. Perhaps what felt like bondage to you feel likes bonds of love to someone else. What felt like a cult to you may feel like family to another. Maybe God was simply calling you to a different place, so you could manifest Christ to other people. God is looking for the fruits of the spirit in our hearts and lives... not what chair or building we sit in on Sunday morning. I would just encourage you in this... don't try to change everyone to fit your understanding of God's will... if someone is happy and content in their place of service and they have peace with God, then that is where God has called them. Just love them.
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Post by Sharon on Nov 4, 2008 21:56:03 GMT -5
quote "And you know what, I've realized I can't judge what someone else's first love is. Maybe I can see that they really love their church, or the fellowship meetings... but I can't see the secret part of their service before God... so I can't see which they love the most... but God can.
1 Cor. goes on to talk about the different members of the body, and different gifts. God doesn't call us all to serve in the same place within the body of Christ... and He doesn't give us all the same gifts... but each member who loves Him can still be lead by His spirit.
Perhaps what felt like bondage to you feel likes bonds of love to someone else. What felt like a cult to you may feel like family to another. Maybe God was simply calling you to a different place, so you could manifest Christ to other people. God is looking for the fruits of the spirit in our hearts and lives... not what chair or building we sit in on Sunday morning.
I would just encourage you in this... don't try to change everyone to fit your understanding of God's will... if someone is happy and content in their place of service and they have peace with God, then that is where God has called them. Just love them." unquote
Wisdom from a higher power, no doubt in my mind. You reminded me the parable of the talents....some of us have a lot, some of us have a moderate amount and some of us have a little...but in the end when the Master reappears and asks for an accounting...what matters is how we've used what we have. Thank you for being so open and honest!
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 4, 2008 23:33:46 GMT -5
No siwells, you dont understand what is being (with regards to my last post) said here let alone the huge implications that will effect everyone. The Arabs are controlled and they have not bought the world. They are told how much they can sell their oil for. Its the elite who control the world. Soon you will see oil brought to as low as $50 abarrel and this will have devestating effects on the Arab world. Its all by design planned a long time ago.
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 4, 2008 23:38:28 GMT -5
Hey sapphire! I really enjoyed your post! I would just encourage you in this... don't try to change everyone to fit your understanding of God's will... if someone is happy and content in their place of service and they have peace with God, then that is where God has called them. Just love them.
If we are truly Christians, then we have to understand that we all belong to the same Church (body of Christ). As such, being members of that body we also not only have our own unique gifts to bring to the Church, but we all need one another. Scott
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Post by jwbdurston on Nov 5, 2008 4:38:58 GMT -5
Well Sapphire, I think what you have just said is worth its weight in gold, however, (and I am not takeing away from what you have just said) but I think it does not give the full picture (not that you intended that anyway), but rather it gives a significant piece of the jigsaw puzzle. As much as I agree with you I agree very much with Ariandgabe and when you put them together this puts things even more into focuss. Here is what Ariandgabe said earlier: Jwbdurston wrote: Come to the absolute conclusion that this group is indeed a cult and on my web page I give full details as to why which includes my life storey and my testimony. When I ‘ariandgabe’ point out things like this, I get jumped on as being judgmental. I guess I should ‘always’ keep stating this next verse: “If people are truly living before God within the light of their conscience, who am I to judge?” This supposedly would keep ME from being judgmental, and NOT point a finger at let’s say ANY 2X2 who by the way, all claim that they; ‘truly are living before God within the light of their conscience’ thus, they can never say I was condemning them for being a cult, as we understand ‘cult’ meaning deception, lying, hiding the truth, condemning everyone as going to hell except for them, and so on. Is there a Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah’s Witness who is NOT; “truly living before God within the light of their conscience”? What a cop-out. ‘Well its not my intention to offend anyone’. My God, do you really think that if a friend of yours came to your house and told you: ‘I was out getting drunk last night, coming home from the bar I killed a person on a bike, took off and I need your help to hide the evidence’ and you would be worried not to offend him if you told him that even if he gets away with it on earth, he will still have to face God on judgment day for the murder? Of course he will be offended that you tell him that when he’s asking for your help. Can you afford to do otherwise? Am I to understand that no matter what sin I do, you would never tell me to repent from it because you think you might offend me? This is why Gene is a happy little fellow flaunting his homosexuality before all you so called Christians (Except the few who remain consistent on standing firm on Gods Word). Because even HE ‘is truly living before God within the light of his conscience’, just ask him. Can someone tell me what sinner, who is obviously happy and content living in his sins, who is NOT; ‘truly living before God within the light of his conscience’ ? Why are you who call yourselves Christians so afraid to get the clear-cut message of God out to the people? Have you been so brainwashed that you are still afraid of the Workers? Maybe so. Then maybe that is another reason the Lord has brought me to you, to build up your courage to speak out. So why not join me in love for their soul in hopes of saving them from eternal torment, say with me; Listen Workers, the Bible says; "For many are called, but few are chosen." Hey Gene and all those that live in adultery, and other types of sexual immorality: 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Cor 6:9-11 James 4:2-5 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain,"The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"? NKJV Hey you who think that just because you go to church and read the Bible can MAKE God take you in to the kingdom: Matt 8:12 12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." NKJV Matt 22:13 13 Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' Matt 24:50-51 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. NKJV Hey ‘believers’ who think that ‘saying little’ is the politically correct thing to do, that keep silent as not to be judgmental somehow or rather, better not, might have said but not meant to harm anyone’s feeling … Matt 25:29-30 29'For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' NKJV Oh but Lord, we went to church all the time, we quit one church and left all those friends behind, all for you Lord, you know, we didn’t want to say too much because of the fear of judging them, who knows, maybe they still are; ‘truly living before God within the light of his conscience’? So I didn’t want to be harsh or anything; Luke 13:26-28 26 then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.' 27 But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.' 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.NKJV Rev 19:20 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.NKJV You who say; Dietcoke is a nice man, he knows his Bible, so he doesn’t believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, so what, you wanted me to be like ariandgabe? Isn’t HE the False Prophet? Look how he points everything from your Word Lord; he doesn’t care who gets offended. He really ragged poor Gene Nelson for being gay, I’m sure you know it’s not Gene’s fault, so you made a mistake by letting you servants write things kind of judging homosexuality that it’s an abomination before you, should I point it out to him like ariandgabe? He has an evil heart to be able to say such things as to be; ‘cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever..’ anyone who says that has to be coldhearted no, is THAT what you wanted me to do? You know Jesus, you were a little confused here on earth like my dear friend Rational pointed out your inconsistencies so many times, and between the Love you showed us, you said some pretty harsh words there brother, what do you say for yourself now? Rev 20:9-10 And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.NKJV Well Lord, I don’t know about talking to you sometimes, I tend to agree with Rational and Ghost more and more. Wake up.
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Post by Sharon on Nov 5, 2008 11:21:29 GMT -5
No siwells, you dont understand what is being (with regards to my last post) said here let alone the huge implications that will effect everyone. The Arabs are controlled and they have not bought the world. They are told how much they can sell their oil for. Its the elite who control the world. Soon you will see oil brought to as low as $50 abarrel and this will have devestating effects on the Arab world. Its all by design planned a long time ago. But what have the elite of the Arabs been doing with all the money they've stockpiled? They don't require a whole lot living in the desert do they? Their lives are reportedly more simplistic then the American or more industrialised nations, aren't they? I don't doubt your word, jwdurston....but I still believe that the Israelian enemies will be led by the Arabic nations and then all the destruction you're talking about will take effect....maybe that's the difference in our understanding is that I'm getting from what the Bible speaks about the abomination of the desolation of Daniel is the overrun by the Arabic nations and that is before the fall of them and other nations besides Israel and it's true that some of Israel will fall within that time! Thank you
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Post by Sharon on Nov 5, 2008 11:24:43 GMT -5
Hey sapphire! I really enjoyed your post! I would just encourage you in this... don't try to change everyone to fit your understanding of God's will... if someone is happy and content in their place of service and they have peace with God, then that is where God has called them. Just love them.
If we are truly Christians, then we have to understand that we all belong to the same Church (body of Christ). As such, being members of that body we also not only have our own unique gifts to bring to the Church, but we all need one another. Scott Precisely my sentiments, Scott! Thank you for putting it more eloquently perhaps to Sapphire! Should we all be able to adopt such a benevolent feeling towards one another and their search for God's Will in their lives!
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 5, 2008 12:52:36 GMT -5
Sapphire; Some of us are still attending the F&W meetings, and enjoying the fellowship there. Some of us attend other churches, and enjoy fellowship there. But no matter where we go or don't go, if we don't have a relationship with God, it doesn't profit a thing.
If a church 'body' teaches any part of the Gospel in error and even admits to teaching it in error on the idea that 'you will never find anyone or church holding and standing on everything the Bible teaches', IS what I call a CULT.
And if you are satisfied with this kind of thinking, you might as well stay where you were, it is much less painful for you to remain put. I know, as I'm sure many of you here know.
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 5, 2008 13:03:32 GMT -5
ariandgabe, What church do you attend for fellowship and worship? Scott
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Post by ariandgabe on Nov 5, 2008 13:56:26 GMT -5
I would just encourage you in this... don't try to change everyone to fit your understanding of God's will... if someone is happy and content in their place of service and they have peace with God, then that is where God has called them. Just love them.
If we are truly Christians, then we have to understand that we all belong to the same Church (body of Christ).
As such, being members of that body we also not only have our own unique gifts to bring to the Church, but we all need one another. Scott
Here is a perfect example, my dear friend Scott; "If we are truly Christians, then we have to understand that we all belong to the same Church (body of Christ)."
Mormons, Jehovah's Wittinesses Oprah, the Pope, we all worship the same god, so let's ALL LOVE one another, not just the sinner, but the sin with him. Love the WHOLE person, and that INCLUDES the sin, right Scott?
Sorry, I forgot that this is NOT a Christian post/sight.
John 13:34-35 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." NKJV
Jesus did not mean; 'love one another's sin as I have loved their sin.'
John 14:15-16 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.(so much for the tolerance of sin)
When you go to church, make sure you take your bushel (smile) with you in case you quote a part of scripture that your gay fellow Christian might get a hint of and take it offensively. The bushel (smile) will keep the flicker of light from being seen.
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