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Post by James Durston on Feb 10, 2007 0:48:32 GMT -5
Thats a cop out!. I have given one good reson so far ar to why you guys are in a cult. If you dismiss what I have said its because you are not interested in the truth.
I am about to post the second point which shows you guys are in a false religion. This will be scripture that can not be disputed although you guys will still try to dispute it.
I can understand in a way why you say what you do though, because of where you are comeing from and what I am saying is so different from WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN RAISED IN.
Please, I urge you to consider what I say because it is not my ideas but what the Bible says. You can check it out yourself. This is why it is so important we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. At the end of the day we have to go on what the Bible says. This is the only way we will see what is true and what is not.
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Post by James Durston on Feb 10, 2007 0:51:23 GMT -5
Guys it's about a heart condition. It's between you and Jesus Christ.
It does not matter what you have or have not done in your life. Maybe you have sexually abused little children, maybe you have murdered millions of people, or maybe you are a liar. Whatever the case Jesus loves you so so much and all He wants you to do is confess your sin to Him, ask forgivness and invite Him into your life to be your Lord and Saviour.
If you want you can read this sinners prayer:
Lord Jesus Christ, I come to you because I am a sinner. Lord Jesus Christ I repent of my sin. I turn away from my sin and I turn to Jesus. I believe dear Jesus that you died for me, your blood covers my sin and washes away my sin. I thank you. I open the door to my heart. Come in Lord Jesus, wash me and cleanse me, make me your child as I receive you by faith. I close the door now with Jesus inside. Help me to live for you every day until you come again. I love you and praise you for saving me dear Father, in Jesus name, Amen
Here is a wonderful verse for you to read: John ch1 v12
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Post by James Duurston on Feb 10, 2007 1:35:36 GMT -5
Your such a jerk Nathan!
The Bible is clear on all these issues. Your an unbeliever and at some point I hope you move on
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Post by James Durston on Feb 10, 2007 2:39:09 GMT -5
...So what do you think of the sinners pray here?
Lord Jesus Christ, I come to you because I am a sinner. Lord Jesus Christ I repent of my sin. I turn away from my sin and I turn to Jesus. I believe dear Jesus that you died for me, your blood covers my sin and washes away my sin. I thank you. I open the door to my heart. Come in Lord Jesus, wash me and cleanse me, make me your child as I receive you by faith. I close the door now with Jesus inside. Help me to live for you every day until you come again. I love you and praise you for saving me dear Father, in Jesus name, Amen
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Post by Reality on Feb 10, 2007 4:16:39 GMT -5
Guys it's about a heart condition. It's between you and Jesus Christ.
It does not matter what you have or have not done in your life. Maybe you have sexually abused little children, maybe you have murdered millions of people, or maybe you are a liar. Whatever the case Jesus loves you so so much and all He wants you to do is confess your sin to Him, ask forgivness and invite Him into your life to be your Lord and Saviour. You know, Jim, there are some sins that cannot be forgiven. One of those is assuming the qualities that belong to God. From reading all you have written I fear you are close to, if not already over, that line.
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Post by Observing on Feb 10, 2007 4:20:03 GMT -5
James Durston: Guys it's about a heart condition. It's between you and Jesus Christ.
Jim, I take it that you are not going to address the contradictions you posted?
Are you too busy to read what is posted or are you not to to busy?
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Post by Observing on Feb 10, 2007 4:26:02 GMT -5
James Durston: I dont have any self interest here. I was borne and raised in the Friends, Workers & Meetings 3rd and 4th generation and had an awful life.
I think this is an outright lie. You have an interest in proving, without contradiction or questioning from anyone, that the F&W are a cult. That has been your interest from the start. As far as your bad life - I am sorry. But from what you have said it would have made little difference if you belonged to the F&W or the Pentecostals. James Durston: I have left now for a number of years and have freedom in Christ Jesus. I want other people like me to experience this. I also want to show that the Friends preach another gospel that is contrary to the Word of God. Thats it!
So far you have shown it is contrary to your beliefs. We are still waiting for your definition of a cult. So far, the two points you made are true for Christianity as well as most religins and Christian denominations. James Durston: If you would like to view my testimony on Utube sign into my web page on www.thefriendsandworkerscult.comYes. But trying to make any sense out of it is a most trying experience.
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Post by Observing on Feb 10, 2007 4:27:38 GMT -5
James Durston: Your such a jerk Nathan!
The Bible is clear on all these issues. Your an unbeliever and at some point I hope you move on
When you have no actual facts to present you start attacking the person.
Post the second point. I have kept my socks on in anticipation!
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Post by Observing on Feb 10, 2007 4:32:02 GMT -5
James Durston: Thats a cop out!. I have given one good reson so far ar to why you guys are in a cult. If you dismiss what I have said its because you are not interested in the truth. But the points you listed are true for Christianity as well as ost Christian denominations.
James Durston: I am about to post the second point which shows you guys are in a false religion. This will be scripture that can not be disputed although you guys will still try to dispute it.
Post it. We will decide if it can be disputed.
James Durston: I can understand in a way why you say what you do though, because of where you are comeing from and what I am saying is so different from WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN RAISED IN.
Nope. Free and clear of the F&W for over 30 years.
James Durston: Please, I urge you to consider what I say because it is not my ideas but what the Bible says. You can check it out yourself. This is why it is so important we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. At the end of the day we have to go on what the Bible says. This is the only way we will see what is true and what is not.
Great. Post your arguments the scripture to support it. I, for one, am looking forward to it.
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Post by James Durston on Feb 10, 2007 5:19:30 GMT -5
I have answered ALL issues raised but unfortunately some of you readers are blind and wilfully choose not to accept the truth just like the Pharisees and hypocrites in the time of Jesus.
There is only one unpardonable sin and that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The qualities of God are clearly outlined in the Bible for all to read. The first one is Love and this is not an attribute of God for the Bible tells us that God is Love (something you Friends do not understand but I will post some time).
You will most definitely not decide anything Observing. The Word of God is the Word of God. Wether in this life or the next your knee will bow.
Some of you guys posting on here are clearly not saved. Unless you repent, when you die you will leave your bodies and go down into the earth where hell is. Once there you will be tormented for ever and ever and ever and ever. There will be no let up. There will be no way out. You will remember the conversations and the opportunities on life up here in your bodies and you will wish that you repented while you had the chance….while you had the luxury of time!
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Post by to James D on Feb 10, 2007 5:32:55 GMT -5
You have not answered ALL issues raised but unfortunately you are blind and wilfully choose not to accept the truth just like the Pharisees and hypocrites in the time of Jesus.
You will most definitely not decide anything James. The Word of God is the Word of God. Wether in this life or the next your knee will bow.
Some of you, like James posting on here are clearly not saved. Unless you repent, when you die you will leave your bodies and go down into the earth where hell is. Once there you will be tormented for ever and ever and ever and ever. There will be no let up. There will be no way out. You will remember the conversations and the opportunities on life up here in your bodies and you will wish that you repented while you had the chance….while you had the luxury of time!
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Post by James Durston on Feb 10, 2007 6:53:30 GMT -5
It speaks in the Bible about the dogs and swine. This refers to you.
Keep splashing arround in that stagnant pudle if that is what you want.
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Post by Geoff on Feb 10, 2007 8:12:48 GMT -5
James
You called me a liar, and have failed to justify that accusation.
You called me "Bert" and I take that as a bigger insult.
You have made all manner of assumptions about me that are wrong, and then extrapolated that to assume that I am not saved.
You've reduced your credibility to the point that whatever you post, even if its absolutely right, will not be received by your intended audience. Can you not see this?
Lets get this quite clear then James. Are you saying that I am not saved?
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Post by Bert unlogged on Feb 10, 2007 8:27:43 GMT -5
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Post by Geoff on Feb 10, 2007 8:52:21 GMT -5
Did I light your wick Bert. It was unkind of me wasn't it? But as you have admitted, "Bert" isn't your name, so why would that interest you?
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jude
Senior Member
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Post by jude on Feb 10, 2007 12:27:01 GMT -5
Just an observation. If in fact there are areas that believe that the friends and workers are the one true way, then shouldn't it behoove those that are still in to exact change in those areas that are creating a bad name for the friends and workers? I understand that there are some that are in that religion that are saved. Shouldn't it be important to those people to make sure that anyone affiliated with them is behaving in a way that will bring ALL to Christ?
Just a question...
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Post by Geoff on Feb 10, 2007 12:49:41 GMT -5
Jude Thats a good question you asked. I think the answer is "yes", but I think there are limits - geographic limits. In this international forum, its easy to forget that some people are half a workd away from the reader.
Its also an interesting point to raise - for those that decided that they must leave this fellowship, that leaving reduces greatly the opportunity for facilitating change
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Post by gregleepluggedin on Feb 10, 2007 12:56:23 GMT -5
Its also an interesting point to raise - for those that decided that they must leave this fellowship, that leaving reduces greatly the opportunity for facilitating change ThreeFour things: 1 - Sometimes change comes about directly because someone left and then change comes so more do not. 2 - How many former members want the workers' church to change? 3 - What actions are current members doing to enact change? 4 - For that matter, how many current members of the workers' church want change and what would they change?
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Post by greg and geoff on Feb 10, 2007 14:30:39 GMT -5
You guys bring up the interesting subject of change and how to go about it.
There are two schools of thought in favor of change, yet work against each other.
First is Geoff's school of thought that it's best for people to stay in and effect change through whatever means they have and are capable of.
Second is the school of thought that large numbers of folks leaving will wake up those remaining to realize that the system is no longer working as it once did, thereby prompting change.
One of the problems with the first idea is that if numbers are stable or growing, the largest force within the fellowship which is the status quo force, will be able to use that stability as justification that their policy is working. That makes the progressive people less effective.
The problem with the second idea is that it is actually the progressive people who will leave in frustration to the failures of the status quo forces. So, as there are fewer and fewer progressive people in the f&ws, change actually becomes less likely. Furthermore, the immersed our-way believers have a talent for coming up with all kinds of excuses for their failures. One of the most common excuses is the "falling away" scripture twist in which falling attendance is glorified rather than seen as a sign of failure and spiritual laziness.
What's happening right now is a combination of the two. Many people are leaving or dying, and few new ones come in. Some people are getting concerned about it and the progressives are getting a little more expressive of their concerns. Also, more progressives amongst f&ws are actually being created as time goes on so dropping overall numbers doesn't necessarily mean that there is a finite number of progressives like Geoff disappearing forever.
Interesting subject.
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Post by Geoff on Feb 10, 2007 15:00:42 GMT -5
Please don't misunderstand my position. I don't think that its best for ALL to stay in our fellowship. For some people leaving is the best course. It all depends on the person and the circumstances.
And I'm not sure I like the term "progressive". That perhaps implies no stability? Continuous change? I think thats not a good thing either. There has to be some stability. The foundational truths Jesus taught don't change, and shouldn't be changed. However traditions of men can, do, and should change (in my opinion). In my experience, traditions (as opposed to scriptural doctrines) only change after they are recognised to be traditions.
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Post by James Durston on Feb 10, 2007 16:16:46 GMT -5
So did anyone have any comments on the Sinners prayer that I have posted a number of times. Dont forget you only have to speak out this prayer in sincerity and you will be instantly saved!
Lord Jesus Christ, I come to you because I am a sinner. Lord Jesus Christ I repent of my sin. I turn away from my sin and I turn to Jesus. I believe dear Jesus that you died for me, your blood covers my sin and washes away my sin. I thank you. I open the door to my heart. Come in Lord Jesus, wash me and cleanse me, make me your child as I receive you by faith. I close the door now with Jesus inside. Help me to live for you every day until you come again. I love you and praise you for saving me dear Father, in Jesus name, Amen
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Post by gregleepluggedin on Feb 10, 2007 16:22:54 GMT -5
The foundational truths Jesus taught don't change, and shouldn't be changed. However traditions of men can, do, and should change (in my opinion). The foundation of the workers' church is their ministry. Support for the exclusivity of the workers' ministry and silent dissent are crucial for the workers' ministry and their church. You could disagree with the workers being the only true ministry and their friends being the only true believers, but you had to do so silently. For years (in North America, at least) support for Jesus being a man and in no way God (yet divine...explain that one) was the allowed teaching. You could disagree, but you had to do so silently.
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Post by to Geoff on Feb 10, 2007 17:14:11 GMT -5
Please don't misunderstand my position. I don't think that its best for ALL to stay in our fellowship. For some people leaving is the best course. It all depends on the person and the circumstances. And I'm not sure I like the term "progressive". That perhaps implies no stability? Continuous change? I think thats not a good thing either. There has to be some stability. The foundational truths Jesus taught don't change, and shouldn't be changed. However traditions of men can, do, and should change (in my opinion). In my experience, traditions (as opposed to scriptural doctrines) only change after they are recognised to be traditions. You are obviously a reasonable person Geoff. Even if someone supports the general idea of people staying to help make the church a better place to share faith, I agree there will always be some who need to leave specific toxic situations, regardless of the cause of the toxicity. I agree that there are eternal truths that never change and those truths must be the foundation of the faith of all believers. Regardless, Christianity is all about change, change of the individual to the better, change of the church to the better. Neither people nor churches have ever been perfect, hence the need for "progressive" people to encourage the goal of making the world and their church a better place. In that sense, I suspect you are a "progressive". Unfortunately the term "progressive" has various negative connotations when viewed from certain angles. We are all on a journey, and we are either progressive or regressive. The status quo with anything human and temporal is definitely always regressive. The f&w church is at a crossroads whether it knows it or not. That crossroads requires a fundamental and honest self-examination of where it has been, what its core beliefs are, and what its mission is today. Without that process of self-examination, the church is doomed to decline and spiritual poverty. Time is running out.
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Post by James Durston on Feb 10, 2007 17:18:11 GMT -5
That is easy to explain.
Its good that no one is giveing derogatory remarks about the Sinners prayer that I have posted. I believe the reason for this, despite the unsaved who read it, is because deep down it makes perfect and absolute sense. You cannot really fault it.
You see how easy it is to become a Christian? You dont need control and traditions, all you need is Jesus Christ --and you definately dont need a worker any where near you. Workers do the work of satan!
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Post by Observing on Feb 10, 2007 18:12:46 GMT -5
James Durston So did anyone have any comments on the Sinners prayer that I have posted a number of times. Dont forget you only have to speak out this prayer in sincerity and you will be instantly saved!
James, you believe that this incantation has magical properties that will ensure that anyone who recites it will be saved.
The words project your beliefs and as such is not open to discussion.
I, for one, do not believe it has the magical properties you ascribe to it.
I am waiting for your second definition of cult. My socks are still on.
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Post by Observing on Feb 10, 2007 18:30:36 GMT -5
James Durston: I have answered ALL issues raised but unfortunately some of you readers are blind and wilfully choose not to accept the truth just like the Pharisees and hypocrites in the time of Jesus.
This is false, Jim. You haven't answered most of the questions put forth.
Remember - you still have not given your definition of a cult.
James Durston: There is only one unpardonable sin and that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The qualities of God are clearly outlined in the Bible for all to read. The first one is Love and this is not an attribute of God for the Bible tells us that God is Love (something you Friends do not understand but I will post some time).
Right. But you said all sins could be forgiven. I think that might have been in error.
Maybe at this time we need to know how you define blasphemy. I think of it as: The act of claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God.
James Durston: You will most definitely not decide anything Observing.
Are you now saying people do not have free will?
James Durston: Some of you guys posting on here are clearly not saved. Unless you repent, when you die you will leave your bodies and go down into the earth where hell is.
Just where do you suspect that is? Beneath the Lithosphere? Under the mantel? The outter core? The inner core? Just where?
James Durston: Once there you will be tormented for ever and ever and ever and ever. There will be no let up. There will be no way out. You will remember the conversations and the opportunities on life up here in your bodies and you will wish that you repented while you had the chance….while you had the luxury of time!
Did you ever wonder what the torments would be? Do you think we will have our corporal bodies? Will there be nerves to feel pain?
Have you thought this through?Can you think of anything that you would find either pleasant or painful after say a million years? In both cases I think the utter boredom would be the worst punishment possible. If 1 million doesn't do it for you think about 1 billion. Eternity is forever. When you really think about it would you want to exist for that long?
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Post by OzE on Feb 10, 2007 19:23:44 GMT -5
James, I disagree. Where in the Bible does it say this? Can you please explain from the Bible how people are saved?
Man is born again through hearing and understanding the Word of God, which is His Gospel. This is what the Scriptures teach. It is important to note that a man can, over a period of time, hear the Gospel and gradually reach the point where he understands and believes it, but the man is not born again during this period but only AFTER he has fully understood and believed the Gospel: "In Whom (Jesus) ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the Word of Truth, the GOSPEL of your salvation: in Whom also AFTER ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise" (Eph. 1:13).
Ephesians 1:4 says, "According as HE HATH CHOSEN US in Him before the foundation of the world..."
We don't choose God, He chooses us. We don't decide when to be born again He does. A prayer cannot save anyone and I believe you are deceiving people into thinking and believing something thats is not true or Biblical.
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Post by JAmes Durston on Feb 10, 2007 22:06:46 GMT -5
Some of you guys posting on here are clearly not saved.
Unless you repent, when you die you will leave your bodies and go down into the earth where hell is.
Once there you will be tormented for ever and ever and ever and ever. There will be no let up. There will be no way out.
You will remember the conversations and the opportunities on life up here in your bodies and you will wish that you repented while you had the chance….while you had the luxury of time!
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