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Post by James Durston on Feb 8, 2007 20:42:30 GMT -5
Well Bert it’s never been my intention to talk about who is saved and who is not. We cannot judge for God alone is the only one who can do that. Only His justice is perfect and all we must do is forgive no matter what.
Having said that the Bible teaches us that we have to make Jesus Christ our Lord and Master thus we have to be borne again. The Bible also teaches us that we have to remain faithful to Jesus Christ till the very end.
It does not matter what this porn star did, and all the rest of it, providing she accepted Jesus into her heart and repented of her sins. If this is the case she will be in Paradise right now.
It’s not a case of drawing the line of acceptability Bert. It is what I have said above that counts. God’s mercy and forgiveness through Jesus Christ has no limits
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Post by James Durston on Feb 8, 2007 21:29:19 GMT -5
..You see readers; here is one of the great lies of the Friends, Workers and Meetings!
Geoff said, “For the record. I DO NOT accept the view that a person has to be in our fellowship to be saved. You seem to assume that I do, though how you arrived at that assumption you haven't said”.
Many of the Friends will play out a scenario that if someone is ‘trapped’ in a particular location where a worker cannot ‘bump’ into him or her there is a possibility that person could be saved…….or some other scenario is thought out where there are ‘exceptional’ circumstances for a particular person that could be saved without the workers making direct contact!
A foundational belief of the Friends and Workers is that you do have to be in their way to be saved….end of storey!! Now there are many Friends who will not admit that because there is no clear spoken doctrine but they all (except Geoff) believe that. That is why they don’t have television and short died hair, earrings and obvious makeup ect ect. The Friends usually cannot articulate their beliefs but in their heart of hearts they believe you have to be in their way. Fact….no doubt about it!! They believe that if you are not in their way you are going to hell! That is why many many do not leave because it’s about fear, control and manipulation!
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Post by once again on Feb 8, 2007 21:35:49 GMT -5
Well Bert it’s never been my intention to talk about who is saved and who is not. We cannot judge for God alone is the only one who can do that. Only His justice is perfect and all we must do is forgive no matter what. Having said that the Bible teaches us that we have to make Jesus Christ our Lord and Master thus we have to be borne again. The Bible also teaches us that we have to remain faithful to Jesus Christ till the very end. It does not matter what this porn star did, and all the rest of it, providing she accepted Jesus into her heart and repented of her sins. If this is the case she will be in Paradise right now. It’s not a case of drawing the line of acceptability Bert. It is what I have said above that counts. God’s mercy and forgiveness through Jesus Christ has no limitsI think James has written an excellent answer here, and should be repeated over and over.
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Post by lltfe on Feb 8, 2007 21:38:44 GMT -5
Geoff said, “For the record. I DO NOT accept the view that a person has to be in our fellowship to be saved. You seem to assume that I do, though how you arrived at that assumption you haven't said”.
I spoke with a councellor today and told him my in-laws held a "funeral like" gathering with the family when I left meetings. I didn't go. What does that say about what they thought of me?
Geoff is a free thinking 2X2 and one of a rare breed IMHO.
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Post by Compare on Feb 9, 2007 0:55:39 GMT -5
A foundational belief of the Friends and Workers is that you do have to be in their way to be saved….end of storey!! A foundational belief of Christianity is that you do have to be in their way to be saved….end of story!! Christians believe that if you are not in their way you are going to hell! That is why many many do not leave because it’s about fear, control and manipulation!
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Post by Observing on Feb 9, 2007 1:00:07 GMT -5
James Durston: Well Bert it’s never been my intention to talk about who is saved and who is not.
I have read your comments concerning myself and feel compelled to point out that your words show differently.
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Post by James Durston on Feb 9, 2007 1:28:31 GMT -5
Observing....you stated something about Christian meaning that it does not refer to the indwelling of Jesus Christ (Christ within us). If you do not have this totaly clear in your own mind and heart, by your own admission you are not saved because you have not received Jesus Christ into your life, heart, mind as your Lord and Saviour.
If you want I can post a prayer which if you speak it out in all sincerity you can be instantly saved.
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Post by James Durston on Feb 9, 2007 1:36:21 GMT -5
..You see readers; here is one of the great lies of the Friends, Workers and Meetings!
Geoff said, “For the record. I DO NOT accept the view that a person has to be in our fellowship to be saved. You seem to assume that I do, though how you arrived at that assumption you haven't said”.
Many of the Friends will play out a scenario that if someone is ‘trapped’ in a particular location where a worker cannot ‘bump’ into him or her there is a possibility that person could be saved…….or some other scenario is thought out where there are ‘exceptional’ circumstances for a particular person that could be saved without the workers making direct contact!
A foundational belief of the Friends and Workers is that you do have to be in their way to be saved….end of storey!! Now there are many Friends who will not admit that because there is no clear spoken doctrine but they all (except Geoff) believe that. That is why they don’t have television and short died hair, earrings and obvious makeup ect ect. The Friends usually cannot articulate their beliefs but in their heart of hearts they believe you have to be in their way. Fact….no doubt about it!! They believe that if you are not in their way you are going to hell! That is why many many do not leave because it’s about fear, control and manipulation!
It is this fear, control and manipulation that is in other cults like Jehovah Witnesses, Exclusive brethren, Mormons and Christadelphians. These “Groups” like ‘The Church With No Name’ (Friends & Workers) are fear based and against the Word of God.
REMEMBER: The reason a group of people believe you have to be in their way can only mean, by default, that it is a system of control. In other words it is fear based which of course is of the devil!
The believer of these systems will always be controlled because there is not any other option because they believe with all their heart that this is the one and only way!!!!!! Without doubt this is an abomination towards God. …But my friends…..see how deceiving the devil is because for many it feels so right to fellowship within the Friends, Workers & Meetings!
The first POINT that constitutes the Friends, Workers & Meetings being a cult is because they say you have to be in their way to be saved.
Now the Second POINT that constitutes the Friends, Workers & Meetings being a cult is going to blow your socks away. I will mention this in my next post after I have dealt with all the rubbish that has to come my way for telling the TRUTH
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Post by Geoff on Feb 9, 2007 3:15:20 GMT -5
James
You now call me a liar for declaring my belief?
And as I'm the first to challenge your assumption that "ALL" F&W say that "to be saved one has to be in our fellowship", you exclude only me?
(you said "...but they all (except Geoff) believe that.")
Well, let me further clarify what seem to you an unbelievable statement. (where you call me a liar)
I am not speaking about "special circumstances", or people " trapped in a particular situation", rather people in ordinary life, in ordinary circumstances, and in far greater numbers outside our fellowship that inside it. Ordinary people in many denominations of Christianity. Can I make this any clearer? And this is not just a statement, there's evidence in my behaviour and actions (of course you know nothing about that either as you don't know me)
Its not the "end of the story" to just tell me what I believe when you don't even know me. That would be as presumptious as if I told you what you believe without actually knowing.
I do however accept your comment that I am inarticulate.
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Post by James Durston on Feb 9, 2007 4:10:41 GMT -5
Geoff this is not about you so much, this is about the Friends, Workers and Meetings as a whole.
As it happens you are deceived. You also suport this cult because you are still in it. You support the beliefs of the Friends, Workers and the meetings. While you say things that appear to go against the mainstream of their beliefs you do not see that their ways are contrary to Gods and for this reason you are blinded.
There are many bad things that happen within this organisation (if I can call it that) but there is no accountability and things are shoved under the carpet. People like you support this.
While you give the impression of being somewhat of a loose cannon within this false religion you are just as much part of it and are accountable.
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Post by Geoff on Feb 9, 2007 4:26:16 GMT -5
James
For me it is about me. I'm the one most interested in my salvation, but perhaps you also are?
Can you explain a little better how you think I'm deceived? Can you name an example of something on which I under a deception?
You seem to make many assumption about me based on NO real knowledge of me. You suggest that I SUPPORT some of the bad things that go in in our fellowship. Do you have evidence of this support? Do you KNOW that I am not actively seeking correction of wrongs?
You say I am blinded but you fail to say what I don't see. To tell a blind man about vision is very difficult. A blind man will not understand the comment "You cannot see". See? what is it to see? says the blindman.
So how do you justify judging me like this - juding me to be blind, deceived, a loose cannon, a supporter of wrongs etc - especially when you are critical of people in our feloowship of judging others. Tell me how you know that I'm suffering these problems.
If you cannot address the issues of one single person (me), how can you address the issues of a multitude?
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Post by James Durston on Feb 9, 2007 4:58:17 GMT -5
Youv'e got it wrong Geoff and things are getting diverted again. I do want to continue our discussion but I think it is better I stick to point number two of why the Friends, Workers and Meetings are a cult.
When I have done this I will be able to say to you and others, "How can you dispute all this evidence?"
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Post by Joshua on Feb 9, 2007 5:36:42 GMT -5
Youv'e got it wrong Geoff and things are getting diverted again. I do want to continue our discussion but I think it is better I stick to point number two of why the Friends, Workers and Meetings are a cult. When I have done this I will be able to say to you and others, "How can you dispute all this evidence?"So how do you know about the church in our town? Each church should be viewed according to what the believers in that area practice and teach. Have you not read where the churches were admonished on an idividual basis, in other words, our mtg. is not held 'liable' for the people such as you that teach false things like the tongues, why should I be held 'liable' for your errored thinking? You might have a cult where you live? and it might be all your fault, because you will be held accountable one day.
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Post by James Durston on Feb 9, 2007 5:38:52 GMT -5
You dont know what your talking about mate
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Post by Matt on Feb 9, 2007 5:42:41 GMT -5
You dont know what your talking about mate My name ain't mate?? Matt is my middle name, how about that. ;D ;D
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Post by Geoff on Feb 9, 2007 7:36:55 GMT -5
James You want to call me a liar (among other things), then when I ask you to explain you are in effect saying
"I'm too busy to deal with that just now".
If you want to make your points of view known, thats good, but if you want them listened to, you'll need credibility, otherwise there's a danger that some will dismiss anything you say as being not credible.
If you can't answer my challenges on what you have said about me, then this reduces your credibility.
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Post by Observing on Feb 9, 2007 8:29:35 GMT -5
James Durston: Observing....you stated something about Christian meaning that it does not refer to the indwelling of Jesus Christ (Christ within us). If you do not have this totaly clear in your own mind and heart, by your own admission you are not saved because you have not received Jesus Christ into your life, heart, mind as your Lord and Saviour.
That, as I have said Jim, is your definition of what a Christian is. That is not the only definition.
However, the point was that you stated: "Well Bert it’s never been my intention to talk about who is saved and who is not."
and then went on to state that I was not saved. Do you see the contradiction is what you are saying? Both statements cannot be true.
James Durston: If you want I can post a prayer which if you speak it out in all sincerity you can be instantly saved.
Thank you for the offer, but no.
This seemingly flies in the face of the canon of at least some Pentecostal denominations that say speaking in tongues is a requirement of salvation. Is it safe to assume you do not belong to one of these groups?
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Post by Observing on Feb 9, 2007 8:51:02 GMT -5
James Durston: A foundational belief of the Friends and Workers is that you do have to be in their way to be saved….end of storey!!
How does this differ from Christianity?
James Durston: They believe that if you are not in their way you are going to hell! That is why many many do not leave because it’s about fear, control and manipulation!
How does this differ from Christianity?
James Durston: ]It is this fear, control and manipulation that is in other cults like Jehovah Witnesses, Exclusive brethren, Mormons and Christadelphians. These “Groups” like ‘The Church With No Name’ (Friends & Workers) are fear based and against the Word of God.
The fear of eternal damnation and the promise of salvation is pretty much a standard belief of religions in general. In fact, I cannot think of any monotheistic religion where this is no the case.
Behavior is manipulated in all religions simply by saying that if you act as God has commanded and please God you will you will gain eternal life. If you are to be found among the wanting you will be condemned to Hell. People change their behavior - they have been controlled and manipulated.
James Durston: REMEMBER: The reason a group of people believe you have to be in their way can only mean, by default, that it is a system of control. In other words it is fear based which of course is of the devil!
James, I think you would be hard pressed to show that people are not controlled and manipulated by any religion, including Christianity and all of its many denominations.
James Durston: The believer of these systems will always be controlled because there is not any other option because they believe with all their heart that this is the one and only way!!!!!!
Please explain hopw this does not exactly explain Christianity.
Do you believe there is another way besides Christianity?
James Durston: Without doubt this is . …But my friends…..see how deceiving the devil is because for many it feels so right to fellowship within the Friends, Workers & Meetings!
Are you saying Christianity is also "...an abomination towards God,..."?
The F&W feels right to the members of that group exactly as Christianity feels so right to you. Because you believe it is the only way.
James Durston: The first POINT that constitutes the Friends, Workers & Meetings being a cult is because they say you have to be in their way to be saved.
How does this differ in any way from Christianity?
Do you think you can be in any other religion and be saved?
If believing they are the only way makes the F&W group a cult then believing that Christianity is the only way would also make Christianity a cult.
Unless you can provide a different definition than this one.
James Durston: Now the Second POINT that constitutes the Friends, Workers & Meetings being a cult is going to blow your socks away. I will mention this in my next post after I have dealt with all the rubbish that has to come my way for telling the TRUTH
I look forward to seeing what the next point is that makes the F&W a cult and we will see if perhaps it applies only to that group and does not include other groups or religions.
I have my socks tied on in anticipation of this revelation!
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Post by James Durston on Feb 9, 2007 14:38:36 GMT -5
Its not that I am too busy Bert but I think we might just go round in circles and at the moment I want to focuses on why the Church with No Name is not the Gospel that the Bible teaches us.
Speaking in tongues does not make you any more of a Christian than a Christian who does not speak in tongues. I am going to post the ‘sinners prayer’ anyway. Those that are unsaved or not sure about their salvation can read it aloud on their own, if they whish, in sincerity and have a guaranteed place in heaven.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2007 14:47:54 GMT -5
What did "Bert" say?
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timber
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Post by timber on Feb 9, 2007 14:48:03 GMT -5
What the heck is a sinner's prayer and where can I find that in the Bible.
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Post by Ignatious on Feb 9, 2007 14:49:59 GMT -5
Can a person be saved if they fail to read the sinners prayer?
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Post by Mary D on Feb 9, 2007 14:51:09 GMT -5
Can we be saved by the works of reading a sinners prayer?
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Post by georgina on Feb 9, 2007 16:17:42 GMT -5
Is James afraid to back up his accusations?
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Post by Observing on Feb 9, 2007 18:58:46 GMT -5
James Durston: Its not that I am too busy Bert...
Jim, do you say what you mean? Or do you just say what is convenient at the time?
You say you are not too busy but you also posted: "To be honest with you guys I am a very busy person and don’t have a lot of time to spend..."
My question, as you might well imagine, is if you were being honest when you said you were too busy what were you being when you said it was not that you were too busy?
Speaking in tongues does not make you any more of a Christian than a Christian who does not speak in tongues. I am going to post the ‘sinners prayer’ anyway. Those that are unsaved or not sure about their salvation can read it aloud on their own, if they whish, in sincerity and have a guaranteed place in heaven.
Well, you know there are groups that believe if you do not speak in tongues that you do not have the Holy Spirit.
Wow. You can guarantee me a place in heaven?? You must be God.
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Post by James Durston on Feb 9, 2007 21:49:54 GMT -5
Guys it's about a heart condition. It's between you and Jesus Christ.
It does not matter what you have or have not done in your life. Maybe you have sexually abused little children, maybe you have murdered millions of people, or maybe you are a liar. Whatever the case Jesus loves you so so much and all He wants you to do is confess your sin to Him, ask forgivness and invite Him into your life to be your Lord and Saviour.
If you want you can read this sinners prayer:
Lord Jesus Christ, I come to you because I am a sinner. Lord Jesus Christ I repent of my sin. I turn away from my sin and I turn to Jesus. I believe dear Jesus that you died for me, your blood covers my sin and washes away my sin. I thank you. I open the door to my heart. Come in Lord Jesus, wash me and cleanse me, make me your child as I receive you by faith. I close the door now with Jesus inside. Help me to live for you every day until you come again. I love you and praise you for saving me dear Father, in Jesus name, Amen
Here is a wonderful verse for you to read: John ch1 v12
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this posting is in question
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Post by this posting is in question on Feb 9, 2007 22:17:54 GMT -5
This beginning posting is questionable indeed. If the posting was done by someone that has not had a past self interest, it would be maybe ok, but we have one by James Durston, who has brought to the room his own self interest.
Question would be this, and that is what cult belief does James Durston have now in his life? You don't have to be in a group to have a cult belief system going on in ones life?
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Post by James Durston on Feb 10, 2007 0:13:46 GMT -5
I dont have any self interest here. I was borne and raised in the Friends, Workers & Meetings 3rd and 4th generation and had an awful life. I have left now for a number of years and have freedom in Christ Jesus. I want other people like me to experience this. I also want to show that the Friends preach another gospel that is contrary to the Word of God. Thats it! If you would like to view my testimony on Utube sign into my web page on www.thefriendsandworkerscult.com
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