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Post by Kitten slippers on Feb 11, 2012 23:03:01 GMT -5
My father's sister is a worker. I told him that there's info re the friends/workers on the net and that there's a site (Wings) re CSA. He totally didn't believe me and he has never even been a part of the group. HI ALIA Did you offer to show your Dad this site. If he didnt believe it, maybe you need to tell him that his sisters face with other workers, friends, might be splashed over the TV screen, if A Current Affair or one of those other shows gets hold of it. They have been having a go at the Exclusive Brethren again. So its only a matter of time. If that happens this kitty will have the shortest hair in the state.  |
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Post by to Ironsides on Feb 11, 2012 23:26:04 GMT -5
Hi ironsides
Even though the perpetrator is now deceased you may want to pass on their name to the admins at Wings. Very likely there was more than one victim.
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Post by coverup on Feb 12, 2012 1:08:02 GMT -5
Pretty obvious "blue skys" didnt have any female relatives affected by CSA. Fancy the idea of putting personal details on here. Anyone googling truth can find this site. Anyone in the world. Why ever would we put personal details on here. Is "blue skys" just another name for WA or CA. I suspect you are right kitty cat. When the heat was turned up on WA he suddenly changed into blue skys  He must be extremely gullible to think that people are going to post private information on a public forum, especially TMB. |
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Post by Greg on Feb 12, 2012 1:58:54 GMT -5
Respectfully, what you are missing is that it is wickedness on a grand scale amongst some senior workers in Tas & Vic, trying to be kept hidden, that is 'dragging our fellowship through the mud'. Once I discovered it affected my family, how could I keep silent and pretend it's all roses? Once I saw the life-long sentence on the victims as a result of harm done to them by those we trusted as 'servants of God'? Who said to be silent?Dislike for 'many aspects of the fellowship'? A strawman if ever there was one. What most here (perhaps excluding yourself and WA) dislike is hidden wickedness and filth in a ministry we otherwise LOVE to support. It would be nice if you too came out in support of a clean and Christ-like ministry. You can have no idea if i have done so or not.Dragging the fellowship through the mud. Well lets all feel sorry for the fellowship. When a man enters somebodys house and violates the innocence in their own home or anyones home eb, workers, or any other dispicable human deserves more than dragging thru mud. WA, you have exposed yourself on this forum as somebody who has displayed no empathy towards the poor victims of your so called fellowship. Conventions,meetings,missions must be so exciting for the likes of eb as it provides him with opportunity to inflict his sick warped belief of gratification and for how many more one can only shudder. i would like the forum to know that i am from mainstream society who has been alightened to this fellowship called the truth (or is it lie) thru a relationship with an ex member. This ex member who i am just astounded can still be so positive warm beautiful and loving after the atrocities inflicted both mentally and physical by members of this fellowship is beyond belief and it is quite evident thru this forum that there are so many more unfortunately recovering from the same nightmare called The fellowship. I would say to one and all victims at the hands of the pathetic(eb and the like) draw strength thru this forum that there are people like myself who are now making the general community aware of this gathering called the lie. Most apologies THE TRUTH. Just by calling themselves the truth shows how out of touch with reality these people really are. Never give up victims - fight the unwinnable fight for a life without workers and the fellowship can only be better than the previous. My heart truly goes out to all of you. |
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Post by Kitten slippers on Feb 12, 2012 2:36:19 GMT -5
Try googling:- Exclusive Brethren - Today Tonight 2012. Click on 1st link. Watch video of arrival of 900 arriving at Sydney Airport for their World Conference. ONLY A MATTER OF TIME. Some local people think we are Excl. Breth. Have actually had someone say it right to my face!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And behind my back. And a relative accused at her work.  |
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cooee
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Post by cooee on Feb 12, 2012 3:48:18 GMT -5
A guest poster (post 483) asked Spidercam had he approached DL or any of the more senior male workers in Vic / Tas about CSA matters.
I cannot answer for Spidercam, but I understand there have been written communications about CSA to Mr. Leitch from concerned friends and responses were received back from him.
I believe, as Clearday says, the language and content of the communications to DL were decent; just a quiet urging that he take action on certain undertakings he had given.
The recipients advised being astonished at the responses that came back. The recipients were shocked at the things that were written by someone claiming to be a servant of the living God.
Such reactions possibly explain why the friends are quite reluctant to speak to the workers about these matters.
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Post by Greg on Feb 12, 2012 5:36:15 GMT -5
Greg You have concern for the young,naive and innocent are still at risk? Then get it touch with those who have received responses from the leaders which are full of hubris, lies, threats, stonewalling and excuses. Encourage them to come forward and post them (minus personal details) here. It'll help achieve results in your concern for young,naive and innocent that are still at risk This subject of csa must remain within those affected for future legality. Blue skies we must agree to disagree.I dont want the victims being exposed anymore thru workers or the like on the pretext to cover up. We both need exposure of the dispicable within your fellowship blue skies that way you wont have to be so concerned about your tribe being dragged through the mud. Ive just realised maybe were working together through this? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 5:40:12 GMT -5
Is blue skies noels?
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Post by Greg on Feb 12, 2012 6:03:28 GMT -5
Blue skies would i like to help you say. I have been helping for the past two years not 1 but 3 victims of your abhorrent organisation. I would ask you to help me in recognition of the harmed and to ensure that all members of your fellowship and lets be honest with ourselves that number could be greater than what we all really think are held to account and not only asked to explain but also punished to the enth degree of the law. As a compasionate man Blue skies i,m sure you would agree with me Chemical Castration is probably not punishing these predators but i believe the last man hanged could well have been innocent. greg Perhaps the two solutions you suggest may not be so achievable? When you ready to think about something realistic and respond to the achievable which I suggest then we can communicate again? Blue skies i am very realistic. I havent lost sight or recognition of the many people affected from the acts of a certain few of your fellowship. The sad thing is wa or you or eb or these wonderful people we call the workers just refuse to recognise that there is a problem within. They are hell bent as you are protecting the name of the truth when reallyif there was one once of decencey from these leaders they would accept and acknowledge that unfortunately the acts of a few(or more ) have tainted their brand. Stand up blue skies wa and everbody else within and ensure the dispicable acts never occur again and probably more important accept that horrible events have taken place. Your continual denial cover up and attempt to smoke screen the truth may fool some but not the ordinary citizen. Have a really good think about it blue skies you dont strike me as the naive type.But i am starting to wonder. |
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Post by spiders on Feb 12, 2012 6:22:22 GMT -5
The only suggestion that you have made blue skys is to have private correspondence posted here. This is clearly not going to happen for all the reasons I and others have mentioned.
The only way in which this ministry is going to held accountable is for further victims to come forward and take the perpetrators to court to face up to the awful crimes they have committed against innocent women. At this stage only one has been brave enough to do this and the workers are doing there best to make sure no one else does.
Is this the way for the so called "servants of the living God" to act?
What happened to being open and honest with people and repenting of CSA?
There has been no support of the victim, with the main focus being on protection of the reputation of the ministry.
Where do your prioroities lie?
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Post by Kitten slippers on Feb 12, 2012 6:23:51 GMT -5
Noooo Greg, Blue Skys is not naive. Very, very, cunning. Cant everybody see it. Please dont be taken in by him.  I havnt quite worked out what he is up to. But he is a very strange character. I just have a bad feeling about him. I dont care who he is, hes giving me the creeps. In fact I think the best thing to do would be to ignore him. If you dont answer his ridiculous posts, he might just go away again. Hes already called himself three different names!!!!!!!!!! Well is he Noels. I think we need a bit of input from SCOTT here please. |
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Post by coverup on Feb 12, 2012 6:40:01 GMT -5
Noooo Greg, Blue Skys is not naive. Very, very, cunning. Cant everybody see it. Please dont be taken in by him. I havnt quite worked out what he is up to. But he is a very strange character. I just have a bad feeling about him. I dont care who he is, hes giving me the creeps. In fact I think the best thing to do would be to ignore him. If you dont answer his ridiculous posts, he might just go away again. Hes already called himself three different names!!!!!!!!!! Well is he Noels. I think we need a bit of input from SCOTT here please. I agree kitty babe. This guy is a creep trying to get information to further is own agenda (whatever that is). Just ignore him and hope he doesn't morph into some other ridiculous character such as "green grass" ;D |
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Post by Kitten slippers on Feb 12, 2012 6:48:11 GMT -5
Maybe its Bert!!!! Hes certainly got himself in a tizzy on that thread about his unanswered questions. Hes going to get his ears singed. Whoever is WA, CA, or Blueskys. I think they might have a little head problem. He is just hoping someone gullible enough to put private information on here. What if he is a reporter!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is just something about him I cant put my finger on. I have been told before, I have ESP. There is something about him that is really bugging me! |
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Post by Kitten Slippers on Feb 12, 2012 6:58:20 GMT -5
Thankyou so much "coverup". I love your sense of humour.  Hes so dumb that it wouldnt matter what he called himself, we can pick up its him in the 1st couple words of his posts. Kitty. Talk about dumb names. Ive got about the dumbest, and cant remember why now.!! |
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Post by mod7 on Feb 12, 2012 7:47:20 GMT -5
The recent bout of flaming that has gone on here will not be tolerated by the moderators.
We don't intend to enter into correspondence or any argument.
Having a thread for anonymous posting on this delicate subject is important and a privilege not a right. Those who abuse that privilege will face bans.
I am reasonably aware of what has occurred and by whom. I don't intend to say anymore but to ask that respect be given to those who are hurt and concerned about CSA in the fellowship.
Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 11:08:42 GMT -5
Here's the deal: when people have been hurt and betrayed, they become very cautious with personal information because there are serious trust issues. If people want to discuss it with you or on the board, they will do it.....but don't hold your breath, trust is a major factor. You might be well advised to gain some better understanding of the impact of CSA on its victims. Dealing with it is not the same as dealing with a toothache and making an appointment with the dentist. It's completely different. Start by asking yourself why a large majority of victims never report CSA crimes. Once you find the answer to that, many of your questions will be answered as to why this isn't such a simple issue. I am in contact with CSA victims, I understand perhaps as much as a caring non involved person can of the impact? I have done considerable reading I have some understanding of why most victims never report CSA. Do you have an alternative and preferable suggestion to that of the details of the approach to and respond from Mr Leitch, (perhaps with necessary personal details being removed) being placed on this thread? Another suggestion of a way for concerns to be addressed? First of all, you need to get realistic about the rather naive idea that a victim is going to expose themselves and report their abuse to an unnamed request on a public discussion board. I mean, stand back and think about it. You say you have read up on the effects of these crimes on victims but you seem to have no idea why victims don't publicly proclaim the abuses against them. It makes no sense. As I mentioned, one of the keys is trust issues. As you can read from responses here, your posts have had the opposite effect on people, you are not being trusted by even non-victims. If you want to help, you really need to examine yourself and ask yourself why you are not being trusted. You might well be a trustworthy person, but you have said nothing to inspire trust or confidence here in any manner. You need to understand that, and try to figure out why. As far as the next remedies in this situation, it has become difficult to imagine that at this stage there are any "in-house" remedies. You are proposing that you will gather all the complaints and put them in the hands of "someone" who might be able to do something. I assume you really believe that this is the right thing to do. The problem is, no one else does. In-house efforts have been made and the responses have resulted in something worse than a dead-end brick wall. No one here believes that you are in a position to cause any effect that is different than what has already been done: 1. One of the reasons why is the absence of any procedure within the F&W system to resolve problems, let alone fairly and transparently. 2.Another reason is that at the overseer level, that overseer is not accountable to anyone above him except, presumably, God. His decisions are final. 3.While most people recognize that multiple overseers can be rallied against one overseer, it is also well know that this is a gargantuan effort, something no victims will be in a position to engage in. They don't even know how that system works, or even if it can work, or if they are going to be betrayed once again. 4.Then there is the issue that even if an effort was mounted to rally a group of overseers against one overseer, what evidence does anyone have that the other overseers are any different from this one? This is the most difficult aspect of dealing with the worker-system: they judge their own. It is akin to having lunatics running the asylum so to speak (just an old saying, not that workers are lunatics). I'm not personally involved in some of the Down Under efforts but I will throw out some ideas for consideration: 1.It is possible that outside experts could hold hearings on this and make recommendations for changes without having to reveal victims to their abusers, surrogates and supporters. At this point, the top leadership seems to have lost their moral compass on this issue. If they really want to reclaim the moral ground, they should submit to the recommendation of experts in the field CSA prevention and reconciliation in organizations. So that's one suggestion. 2.Another possible avenue is legal action. A continued effort for victims to come forward and pressing criminal charges would be helpful on a broader basis. Another possible avenue is civil legal action in which people like DL will have to answer to their own actions of creating an environment which allows these crimes to go on unchallenged. There is evidence which indicates his negligence of his responsibilities toward the protection of children. There's a couple of ideas. The one regarding criminal charges should be at the top of the list. Any worker with any moral fiber should enthusiastically support this idea. This should be first and foremost. All suspicisions of abuse should be reported to authorities as quickly as possible and without question. This should be part of the worker-culture if they are going to regain their reputation that you seek. The problem here isn't just one bad apple called DL. The problem here is a larger cultural one where people put the first priority on protecting the reputation of the ministry. The first priority has to be children and victims, and bringing criminals to justice. If the culture can be changed to get the priorities right, the end result will be a restoration of the reputation of workers. For now, they are giving the appearance of evil that they all agree to harbour criminals among them. This has to stop right now. We need to change the culture from being worker-centric to need-centric. My identification of the need for a cultural change is probably a disappointing one for insiders because it is not an easy task and can't be accomplished overnight. This will take a lot of effort on behalf of people who are willing to be honest, and even be embarrassed themselves. That takes work and courage. There is no magic bullet here. However, we do know that many non-F&W churches have successfully changed their cultures in this manner, so it should be possible for workers to do the right thing too. |
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Post by Angelina Mouse on Feb 12, 2012 16:45:04 GMT -5
Blue skies says he/she is in contact with CSA victims. Can I ask if he lives in VIC, TAS or another state. as I dont understand why he wants personal details put on this site if he already has some of those details.
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Post by Admin on Feb 12, 2012 17:58:43 GMT -5
Be very careful about who you share information with about your experience or concern over CSA.
Requests from anyone posting anonymously here should be treated most circumspectly.
As admin, I alone have access to the IP information of anonymous posters. This identifies the computer being used. I will do my best to ensure the safety of those who post here.
If myself or the moderators discover attempts to elicit information for illegal or immoral reasons, they will be dealt with appropriately and by the appropriate authority.
Posts that seek to taunt others will be deleted.
admin
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Post by From Wings on Feb 13, 2012 5:45:42 GMT -5
Suggestions for wa/waroo from a Wings BTS poster: This seems to be a very aggressive approach intended to once again silence the victims and those who care about them. Since they are asking Wings to 'lay it on the line', one approach would be to ask them instead to provide the verifiable and undeniable proofs that: Workers have correctly handled the matters That they have dealt honestly and openly with all concerned That the reality has and is being told to the friends That the workers (in total) have no tolerance for child abuse And then Wings could respond. Finally, if they want such a degree of 'straight-talking' they should be willing to identify themselves. wingsbts.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=lounge&action=display&thread=158 |
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Post by spidercam on Feb 14, 2012 7:11:45 GMT -5
hey spiders, remember.. I'm looking at you, kid ;D
How many Vic/Tas threads are there? Took me awhile to find the right one, what's happened to Mr big talkin' wa? Like, maybe he's off fixing the world. He can fix it just by vanishing, ha! what powers
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Post by emy on Feb 14, 2012 14:08:07 GMT -5
hey spiders, remember.. I'm looking at you, kid ;D How many Vic/Tas threads are there? Took me awhile to find the right one, what's happened to Mr big talkin' wa? Like, maybe he's off fixing the world. He can fix it just by vanishing, ha! what powers In the last post from wa/ca: |
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Post by fiona on Jul 10, 2012 6:07:17 GMT -5
It was today. A previous post on Wingsbts and TMB: Barry received five charges for indecent assaults on one victim. The matter was adjourned to 19th May at Morwell for a plea of guilty.https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au....3&type=Criminal Case Number: A13163708 Case Date: 19 May 2011. 11:00 AM Prosecuting Agency: Victoria Police Informant: Lambert, L Accused: Barry, Ernest James Accused Representative firm name: Not Represented Hearing Type: Plea Guilty Prosecutor Representative Name: Not Represented Plea: No Plea Taken Location: Latrobe Valley Magistrates' Read more: wingsbts.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=lounge&action=display&thread=80#ixzz1Mn0OfMd5He was represented in court by a impressive and presumably costly defence team including barrister. |
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Post by wendy on Jul 10, 2012 21:40:36 GMT -5
It was today. A previous post on Wingsbts and TMB: Barry received five charges for indecent assaults on one victim. The matter was adjourned to 19th May at Morwell for a plea of guilty.https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au....3&type=Criminal Case Number: A13163708 Case Date: 19 May 2011. 11:00 AM Prosecuting Agency: Victoria Police Informant: Lambert, L Accused: Barry, Ernest James Accused Representative firm name: Not Represented Hearing Type: Plea Guilty Prosecutor Representative Name: Not Represented Plea: No Plea Taken Location: Latrobe Valley Magistrates' Read more: wingsbts.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=lounge&action=display&thread=80#ixzz1Mn0OfMd5He was represented in court by a impressive and presumably costly defence team including barrister. She has a business called "WN Consulting" and specialises in criminal cases involving CSA. She is a high profile and experienced Psychologist whose services would not come cheaply. Makes you sick to think that money given in good faith to the workers is being used in this way. WN Wendy Psychologists - Melbourne, VIC Level 5 488 Bourke St, Melbourne VIC 3000, Australia (03) 9600 0601 |
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Post by such is life on Sept 7, 2012 16:50:13 GMT -5
"LET HIM WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE" It was today. A previous post on Wingsbts and TMB: Barry received five charges for indecent assaults on one victim. The matter was adjourned to 19th May at Morwell for a plea of guilty.https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au....3&type=Criminal Case Number: A13163708 Case Date: 19 May 2011. 11:00 AM Prosecuting Agency: Victoria Police Informant: Lambert, L Accused: Barry, Ernest James Accused Representative firm name: Not Represented Hearing Type: Plea Guilty Prosecutor Representative Name: Not Represented Plea: No Plea Taken Location: Latrobe Valley Magistrates' Read more: wingsbts.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=lounge&action=display&thread=80#ixzz1Mn0OfMd5He was represented in court by a impressive and presumably costly defence team including barrister. |
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Post by Greg on Sept 7, 2012 16:52:34 GMT -5
"LET HIM WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE" Let him who is without sin cast the first killing stone. |
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Post by JO on Sept 7, 2012 17:19:03 GMT -5
"LET HIM WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE" From my understanding of the Jesus of the NT, I have no doubt that he would be disgusted with the behavior of child sexual abusers and those who cover for, and make excuses for them. You would serve both perpetrator and victim better by saying it how it is. Child sexual abuse is not only a crime: its immoral, disgusting, unnecessary, inexcusable and soul-destroying. It should not be once named among us. Not because its best not talked about, but because it should never happen among people professing godliness. |
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Post by fred on Sept 7, 2012 19:19:31 GMT -5
"LET HIM WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE" From my understanding of the Jesus of the NT, I have no doubt that he would be disgusted with the behavior of child sexual abusers and those who cover for, and make excuses for them. You would serve both perpetrator and victim better by saying it how it is. Child sexual abuse is not only a crime: its immoral, disgusting, unnecessary, inexcusable and soul-destroying. It should not be once named among us. Not because its best not talked about, but because it should never happen among people professing godliness. Amen, JO. |
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Post by warped on Sept 7, 2012 20:12:17 GMT -5
"LET HIM WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE" R u posting this to express your support for the convicted pedophile worker Ernest Berry? You have a warped understanding of Christ. The righteous holy judge. One day he will judge you SIL on how you have treated his little ones. Tremble at that prospect. Jesu's words from Matthew 23 “Snakes! Reptilian sneaks! Do you think you can worm your way out of this? Never have to pay the piper? It’s on account of people like you that I send prophets and wise guides and scholars generation after generation—and generation after generation you treat them like dirt, greeting them with lynch mobs, hounding them with abuse. Jesus does not condone sexual abuse of children and nor would you if you were his child. |
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I havnt quite worked out what he is up to. But he is a very strange character. I just have a bad feeling about him. I dont care who he is, hes giving me the creeps. In fact I think the best thing to do would be to ignore him. If you dont answer his ridiculous posts, he might just go away again. Hes already called himself three different names!!!!!!!!!! Well is he Noels. I think we need a bit of input from SCOTT here please.
