wanda
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Post by wanda on Feb 8, 2012 7:38:30 GMT -5
Yes there has been unusual happenings in the past in Tassie but no worse than our other states. Everyones related to someone who knows their neighbor and a second cousin of a cousin but that keeps it all in the family  I do believe the comment above IS gossip, I think it would be best to keep to TMB topic rather than comment on innocent people's lives. Gossip can be innocent but not on here |
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Post by Quibbler on Feb 8, 2012 15:30:47 GMT -5
:)Sounds good Wanda. On a new page today. Lets clean up our act.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2012 15:50:24 GMT -5
are you an 'ex'? or a present member of the fellowship? present Can you give true verifiable details of how the workers in Vict have incorrectly handled the EB matter? initially told people who came forward it was in the past and not to be addressed. HAve met with vicitims and told them EB has apologised and no need to take it to the law. Promised to take certain steps requested by victims if did not go to police, ie would tell all present friends in TAs and contact all past people from within the fellowship who may have been exposed. Still has not happened Details (verifiable and undeniable) of how they have not dealt honestly openly and in a matter that would inspire confidence in the ministry. Advised friends there was only one victim of EB was over 30 years ago and he had repented Details (verifiable and undeniable) of how the reality is not being told to the friends. Have not openly disclosed to the firends in Tas that there were was one victim who pressed charges and many who did not. Details (verifiable and undeniable) that the workers have tolerance for child abuse. Actively moved workers around fields and put in areas were there were less children. Current affair between worker and friend still being tolerated today I'm not interested in responses after the kind of some of the pathetic gossipy, rumour based or baseless posts that litter this thread. I'm only interested in posts by posters who will stand by the word they post and post verifiable and undeniable facts. What do you want dates facts times names? Pay WINGS a visit ask to speak with some there who have been abused, disbelieved and ridiculed for telling the truth taswegian, I'm not sure who you are responding to but this is for him/her. I have seen 100% proof that Vic management does not handle CSA properly, today, not last year or last decade, today, right now. They would be criminals in the jurisdiction in which I live. On that basis, my opinion is that Vic management is all about protecting themselves first. |
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Post by wa on Feb 8, 2012 17:40:27 GMT -5
To WA, you are presuming that the posts are from ex mtg people. Well you are certainly wrong about quite a few of them. the others could be ins or outs. Maybe only they know. The most pathetic posts on here are yours. Theres a very nasty nature coming thru your posts!!! No I don't think that's fair. It's understandable the frustration many feel right now. But we need to respect each other, including most workers who in some ways are as much victims too. WA (guest) is being fair, asking for verifiable facts. I know some in Vic & Tas who can provide for you WA, but how to put you in touch? Can you email Scott, who can put you in touch with Wings reps from those states? Thanks for your considered comments, was it you said that PD could have done much more for the victims in Tas & Vic? Because there are very many silent victims of what makes most of us angry like 'Kitten slippers'  appreciate your post spiderweb! how to get it touch waroo1977@gmail.com Can you give true verifiable details of how the workers in Vict (including tassie) have incorrectly handled the EB matter?
Details (verifiable and undeniable) of how they have not dealt honestly openly and in a matter that would inspire confidence in the ministry. (vict and tassie)
Details (verifiable and undeniable) of how the reality is not being told to the friends. (vict and tassie)
Details (verifiable and undeniable) that the workers have tolerance for child abuse. (vict and tassie)
I'm not interested in responses after the kind of some of the pathetic gossipy, rumour based or baseless posts that litter this thread.
I'm only interested in posts by posters who will stand by the word they post and post verifiable and undeniable facts. |
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Post by wa on Feb 8, 2012 17:44:36 GMT -5
are you an 'ex'? or a present member of the fellowship? present Can you give true verifiable details of how the workers in Vict have incorrectly handled the EB matter? initially told people who came forward it was in the past and not to be addressed. HAve met with vicitims and told them EB has apologised and no need to take it to the law. Promised to take certain steps requested by victims if did not go to police, ie would tell all present friends in TAs and contact all past people from within the fellowship who may have been exposed. Still has not happened Details (verifiable and undeniable) of how they have not dealt honestly openly and in a matter that would inspire confidence in the ministry. Advised friends there was only one victim of EB was over 30 years ago and he had repented Details (verifiable and undeniable) of how the reality is not being told to the friends. Have not openly disclosed to the firends in Tas that there were was one victim who pressed charges and many who did not. Details (verifiable and undeniable) that the workers have tolerance for child abuse. Actively moved workers around fields and put in areas were there were less children. Current affair between worker and friend still being tolerated today I'm not interested in responses after the kind of some of the pathetic gossipy, rumour based or baseless posts that litter this thread. I'm only interested in posts by posters who will stand by the word they post and post verifiable and undeniable facts. What do you want dates facts times names? Pay WINGS a visit ask to speak with some there who have been abused, disbelieved and ridiculed for telling the truth hey thanks taswegian! if you would like to get in touch, email me at waroo1977@gmail.com |
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Post by wa on Feb 9, 2012 4:48:02 GMT -5
are you an 'ex'? or a present member of the fellowship? present Can you give true verifiable details of how the workers in Vict have incorrectly handled the EB matter? initially told people who came forward it was in the past and not to be addressed. HAve met with vicitims and told them EB has apologised and no need to take it to the law. Promised to take certain steps requested by victims if did not go to police, ie would tell all present friends in TAs and contact all past people from within the fellowship who may have been exposed. Still has not happened Details (verifiable and undeniable) of how they have not dealt honestly openly and in a matter that would inspire confidence in the ministry. Advised friends there was only one victim of EB was over 30 years ago and he had repented Details (verifiable and undeniable) of how the reality is not being told to the friends. Have not openly disclosed to the firends in Tas that there were was one victim who pressed charges and many who did not. Details (verifiable and undeniable) that the workers have tolerance for child abuse. Actively moved workers around fields and put in areas were there were less children. Current affair between worker and friend still being tolerated today I'm not interested in responses after the kind of some of the pathetic gossipy, rumour based or baseless posts that litter this thread. I'm only interested in posts by posters who will stand by the word they post and post verifiable and undeniable facts. What do you want dates facts times names? Pay WINGS a visit ask to speak with some there who have been abused, disbelieved and ridiculed for telling the truth taswegian, I'm not sure who you are responding to but this is for him/her. I have seen 100% proof that Vic management does not handle CSA properly, today, not last year or last decade, today, right now. They would be criminals in the jurisdiction in which I live.On that basis, my opinion is that Vic management is all about protecting themselves first.
Can give true verifiable details of how the workers in Vict/Tassie have incorrectly handled the EB matter?
Details of how they have not dealt honestly openly and in a matter that would inspire confidence in the ministry.
Details of how the reality is not being told to the friends.
Details that show the workers have tolerance for child abuse.
Details of any assurance given by workers to do certain things...and they have not kept their word.
Why am I asking this.....
I am tired of posts on this thread by those whose mentality appears to be similar to that of children who throw stones and then run away.
Because there are lots of friends and workers who love and appreciate the fellowship.....
So what are the specific details that will show what needs addressing so that the ministry would be respected and be known for its integrity in dealing with child abuse that has occurred within its ranks or dealing with proven abusers within the fellowship?
If you or anyone else also has this goal then please email at
waroo1977@gmail.com
I'm only interested in response by those who have verifiable and undeniable facts, those that can and will stand by their word.
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Post by spidercam on Feb 9, 2012 6:30:48 GMT -5
To WA, waroo1977@gmail.com
What form do you imagine this evidence you request will take? Written allegations? Names of alleged offenders and those who say they are victims? Both are protected and only shared amongst totally trustworthy carers and support people.
How do we know you are trustworthy?
Are you male or female?
Have you contacted Scott on Wings to put your request to them there, and convince them of your credentials?
What if you turned out to be a worker source, seeking to discover identities of those posting here, and next thing, whoosh they're kicked out?
Please convince that you're genuine.
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Post by Ironside on Feb 9, 2012 6:44:40 GMT -5
Its obvious WA, as you say, that you are not interested in others opinions.
Didnt realise you wanted your answers in legalese. Are you a lawyer or solicitor? Or is your mind in such a small box, that you couldnt get all your answers from previous posts. We are not in a courtroom, Yet.
So, Taswegian has given you your answers. Now we have some for you. Do you go to mtgs. If you dont, did you ever? Do you live in Western Australia? Are you a worker? Are you male or female.
GUESS WHAT. I THINK YOU ARE A FAKE. I cant imagine any of the F and W, ins or exes speaking like you do!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you happy. You have got rid of the regular posters. I would think there are a lot of hurt people out there. All those people, some victims, whose opinions mean nothing to you. If you cant believe that there is this problem with workers and some friends and CSA, (and I'm afraid I found it hard to believe of EB at first. He was our nice worker. That probably made it worse.) Then a relative told me of abuse by an elder. And it goes on and on. You probably wont believe me, but this is definitely not gossip. I will not email you. I feel you are not worth talking to. And now I feel bad for sounding mean.
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Post by Ironside on Feb 9, 2012 6:51:55 GMT -5
To WA, waroo1977@gmail.com What form do you imagine this evidence you request will take? Written allegations? Names of alleged offenders and those who say they are victims? Both are protected and only shared amongst totally trustworthy carers and support people. How do we know you are trustworthy? Are you male or female? Have you contacted Scott on Wings to put your request to them there, and convince them of your credentials? What if you turned out to be a worker source, seeking to discover identities of those posting here, and next thing, whoosh they're kicked out? Please convince that you're genuine. HEY, Spidercam, you pipped me at the post. Seems we have had similar thoughts. WA doesnt ring true. Something really fishy there. Real keen for people to email him/her. If they are that keen to kick us out, maybe it would be easier to just go! |
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Post by Shocker on Feb 9, 2012 6:54:55 GMT -5
Whoops maybe WA is a reporter.  Anyone emailed the person. |
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Post by Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 7:03:24 GMT -5
Oh heck, maybe they gonna make a TV show about us Like they have done with the Exclusive Brethren. Some rellies said it was bad.
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wanda
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Posts: 29
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Post by wanda on Feb 9, 2012 7:33:08 GMT -5
WA Guest does sound different to the rest of us and I would be hesitant to even believe he/she is even from WA.
Just because YOU want the facts WA doesn't mean you are IMPORTANT enough to be told them on an open forum and that you are entitled or have the right to know exact intimate private details of a very sensitive matter.
Yes the message does have a LEGAL tone to it written by someone who is trying scare tactics which won't work because the majority of posters here can see what you are attempting to do.
I take offense at what you have written about those who have posted on here, who are you to judge us?
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Post by wa on Feb 9, 2012 12:29:06 GMT -5
To WA, waroo1977@gmail.com What form do you imagine this evidence you request will take? Written allegations? Names of alleged offenders and those who say they are victims? Both are protected and only shared amongst totally trustworthy carers and support people. How do we know you are trustworthy? Are you male or female? Have you contacted Scott on Wings to put your request to them there, and convince them of your credentials? What if you turned out to be a worker source, seeking to discover identities of those posting here, and next thing, whoosh they're kicked out? Please convince that you're genuine. spiderweb Appreciate your concern to know whether I am genuine or not. Actually I am.... and I will do as you suggest and contact the Scott you write of. If you or others wish to contact me on the email address I gave then you may do so. I understand your speculation about people being 'kicked out'. This thread has seen enough speculative posts. I'm tired of them and that is why I am doing what I am. The only people who need fear from anything I am trying to do are (i)those who have erred and won't repent and turn from it and (ii)those who will be robbed of a issue to drag the fellowship through the mud with. |
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Post by spidercam on Feb 9, 2012 15:53:47 GMT -5
Details (verifiable and undeniable) of how they have not dealt honestly openly and in a matter that would inspire confidence in the ministry. (vict and tassie) Workers need to openly acknowledge what has happened (confession) and publicly repent on behalf of all the church.Otherwise there can be little confidence or moving ahead from what is a great wickedness within. This has not happened in Tas and neither in Vic I think. Here's how Nineveh did it in Jonah chapter 3. 6 When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust. 7 This is the proclamation he issued in Nineveh:
“By the decree of the king and his nobles:
Do not let people or animals, herds or flocks, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink. 8 But let people and animals be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. 9 Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.” |
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Post by Scott Ross on Feb 9, 2012 16:02:47 GMT -5
To WA, waroo1977@gmail.com What form do you imagine this evidence you request will take? Written allegations? Names of alleged offenders and those who say they are victims? Both are protected and only shared amongst totally trustworthy carers and support people. How do we know you are trustworthy? Are you male or female? Have you contacted Scott on Wings to put your request to them there, and convince them of your credentials? What if you turned out to be a worker source, seeking to discover identities of those posting here, and next thing, whoosh they're kicked out? Please convince that you're genuine. spiderweb Appreciate your concern to know whether I am genuine or not. Actually I am.... and I will do as you suggest and contact the Scott you write of. If you or others wish to contact me on the email address I gave then you may do so. I understand your speculation about people being 'kicked out'. This thread has seen enough speculative posts. I'm tired of them and that is why I am doing what I am. The only people who need fear from anything I am trying to do are (i)those who have erred and won't repent and turn from it and (ii)those who will be robbed of a issue to drag the fellowship through the mud with. This poster has contacted me and identified themselves. Yes, they are legitimate, but I do not think they fully understand just how many people have been affected by CSA. I do believe this individual has a legitimate belief that most workers wish to deal with CSA issues correctly. The problem as I see it, is there are those senior workers who continue to 'protect' the fellowship rather than openly and honestly deal with the problem. I don't think they understand just how much harm they are causing their church. Scott c  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2012 16:13:32 GMT -5
WA is going about this rather naively.
He/she can't expect people to give such information:
1.on a public board
2.privately to an unknown person
3.privately to a known person who is asking out of idle curiosity.
4.privately to a known person who can't do anything about it.
Tell us who you are.
I want the facts and no opinions or made up names as to who you are.
I want verifiable details about you.
Tell us what authority you have to do something with the information you receive.
Otherwise, you're just blowing smoke. You can't ask for information like you do without being prepared to deal with the consequences.
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wanda
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Post by wanda on Feb 9, 2012 16:42:00 GMT -5
Naivety is an appropriate word to describe WA's thoughtless comments; who are you to put yourself on a pedestal and claim that the posts on here are baseless and speculative- how would you know?
Judging and ridiculing and narcissistic remarks show us that you are not a part of the fellowship of which you are trying to protect because aren't these people humble and compassionate and understanding; none of the qualities you have shown.
Please don't post on here again unless you are doing it with a purpose to support and show compassion to CSA victims and others who have been affected by it.
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Post by spidercam on Feb 9, 2012 17:40:09 GMT -5
All the observations are valid, but please let's be gentle with each other. we are all out of our depths. We are still in shock.
Like Ironside said, he/she found it hard to believe of EB at first. Because he was our "nice worker" with the goofy grin. Which like Ironside said probably made it worse.
Then Ironside found out one of his rellies was abused by an elder. It's touched my family also, to my horror.
How many workers are out of their depths too? leave aside those in authority who could have done stuff about it but chose not too. What about those down the pecking order who hate this as much as us. Like Charlie Brown, "Arrrrggggghhhh...."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2012 17:54:03 GMT -5
To be fair to WA, information is strongly suppressed with regard to problems in the fellowship. So it is no surprise that his attitude suggests that everyone here is spreading rumours and falsehoods because he knows nothing of it. As far as he knows, all is well in the state of Denmark, so to speak. This is not unusual among the F&W.....in fact it is commonplace.
When you are ignorant of these problems in the fellowship, for most people, it is very difficult to believe and accept because you love and believe in the righteousness of the workers and, perhaps to a lesser extent, the friends. In fact, most people don't ever allow themselves to consider such information as being correct until they are personally involved in a case. It takes a shock to wake a lot of people out of their slumber.
I hope WA has some patience and sticks with this. If he can approach this with a little more grace and respect for all, I'm sure some people will engage with him. If he wants to come on like a Taliban interrogator, then he will be forever trapped in his ignorance.
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Post by Ironside on Feb 9, 2012 18:59:51 GMT -5
;D A Taliban interrogator. That sounds about right. Insensitive individual isnt he. He's been given lots of chances, But still ratty. If he doesnt believe us, he doesnt. I can think of a worker with that attitude. When asked for help, he just said don't make trouble. So a problem was just bottled up. One day it will come out, even though the perpetrator is dead. The young in question wasnt the only one abused in that mtg.
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Post by Angelina Mouse on Feb 9, 2012 19:08:08 GMT -5
Thankyou especially to Wanda, Clearday and Scott for the supportive posts. Its great someone is sticking up for us.(also others) Hey spidercam, Am I being picky. He just cant get your name right. I'm just finding that really irritating. SO precise in his questions, but cant get a simple name right!!!!
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Post by Kitten slippers on Feb 9, 2012 19:30:50 GMT -5
Stirring up mud. Well the perpetrators of CSA should have thought of that first, and we wouldnt have this hideous problem. WA wants it swept under the carpet. Theres enough of that going on anyway. Whats he think hes going to do with the information he wants. Go to the perpetrators and say did u do that. They'll say no. He'll go back to the victims and say there you are you've imagined it or made it up to stir up mud. People are cunning. So many no different to "worldly people". Maybe worse because they know better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its not one or two victims. Most people have no idea, unless its happened to them or someone close, and they are talking to others about it. What you going to say WA to the people (now grown up) who were Fiddled with by an elder, when they were teenagers. I know of four, maybe five from one mtg.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2012 20:12:53 GMT -5
Stirring up mud. Well the perpetrators of CSA should have thought of that first, and we wouldnt have this hideous problem. WA wants it swept under the carpet. Theres enough of that going on anyway. Whats he think hes going to do with the information he wants. Go to the perpetrators and say did u do that. They'll say no. He'll go back to the victims and say there you are you've imagined it or made it up to stir up mud. People are cunning. Actually, I've seen this happen. Three workers were browbeating a friend into quitting the meetings. The friend recounted two cases of CSA against him by adult workers and a third encounter as a young adult....three different worker-abusers. He told his judgment workers about it and one worker went to one of the accused and asked if he did it. The judgment worker came back and said "he said he didn't do it, and that proves you are a liar!" Sheesh, where do we find these people? Never expect justice from the workers. Let them be nice professional guests in your home, talk about nice stuff, watch your kids, and things should work out pretty well. |
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Ju
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Post by Ju on Feb 9, 2012 20:45:06 GMT -5
Such a sad statement clearday "Never expect justice from a worker." From my experience I agree but it makes me sad this is the case. Please dont let the workers watch your kids!!!!
I have resisted commenting on this post as I was initially furious with WA and their approach,for me it was a direct attack on victims and things that i know to be fact and true from both my experience and the experience of people I care about.
After a bit of reflection I can see WA being one of my cousins! A true blue professing person, only ever exposed to the good things about the fellowship and never expereinced the bad things. Fully conforming in all ways to the fellowship and flabergasted that these allegations could even be made let alone be true.
So WA if you be real and looking for truth as Scott suggests.... bring it on!
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Post by unlogged on Feb 9, 2012 21:45:46 GMT -5
CSA is a topic that is private and needs to be approached delicately but with logic and preparation not with one phone call to a senior male worker who, by all accounts, sounds more interested in the protection and shielding of the worker than potentially showing compassion and care and compensation to the victims.
Perhaps the friends and support group of the victims could write letters to all workers pressing for public acknowledgement and compensation of some sort for pain and suffering caused.
How do these 2 statements work together?
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meg1
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Post by meg1 on Feb 9, 2012 22:08:59 GMT -5
CSA is a topic that is private and needs to be approached delicately but with logic and preparation not with one phone call to a senior male worker who, by all accounts, sounds more interested in the protection and shielding of the worker than potentially showing compassion and care and compensation to the victims.
Perhaps the friends and support group of the victims could write letters to all workers pressing for public acknowledgement and compensation of some sort for pain and suffering caused. How do these 2 statements work together? My heart says Absolute love and care for the wounded surrounded by a ring of protection that is strong and firm. And Public acknowledgement of the wrong action (not the wronged person) by the perpetrator and leaders of the fellowship. |
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Post by wa on Feb 9, 2012 22:12:06 GMT -5
This poster has contacted me and identified themselves. Yes, they are legitimate, but I do not think they fully understand just how many people have been affected by CSA. I do believe this individual has a legitimate belief that most workers wish to deal with CSA issues correctly. The problem as I see it, is there are those senior workers who continue to 'protect' the fellowship rather than openly and honestly deal with the problem. I don't think they understand just how much harm they are causing their church. Scott c Scott has posted the above. Perhaps an earlier post of mine requires some clarification? The only people who need fear from anything I am trying to do are (i)those who have erred (i.e abusers or those who have not dealt with abuse in a correct and appropriate manner when it is or has been their responsibility to do so) and won't repent and turn from it and (ii)those who will be robbed of a issue to drag the fellowship through the mud with. I have as much time and respect for abusers and those who cover up for them as I do for those who love an issue to drag the fellowship through the mud with. I have given my email address and several have made contact with me. I doubt if I will need to post here again? I have only used this public forum as a means to get in contact with people. Any who have a desire to help and have verifiable and undeniable information that will help show what would need to be done so that the ministry in Vict/Tas is known and respected for its integrity in its handling of child abuse can contact me. waroo1977@gmail.com |
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meg1
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Post by meg1 on Feb 9, 2012 22:13:55 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification. I did not have any fear... but did wonder at your choice of words.
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Anyone emailed the person.
