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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 15, 2010 16:27:39 GMT -5
JO, If the friends have a right to ask that of workers - do workers have a right to ask that of friends? If not why not? By law don't they already have that right? -- i.e., if they see anything that might suggest child abuse when staying in the homes of the friends, they are supposed to call the cops and let them sort it out. Yes they can report CSA, but what I really meant was that people whine about workers committing CSA, workers should get trained, workers this, workers that, etc.andonandonandonandonetc. - - - well workers are taking CSA training which is more than you can say about the blamestormers on here. So, why can't the workers demand the blamestormers take CSA training? I bought a Ministrysafe CSA training module in 2009 - it was applicable to parents and anyone else it was offered to anyone on TMB who was interested, Scott Ross was the only TMB reader who took it! |
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Post by landdownunder on Aug 15, 2010 16:31:46 GMT -5
Reminded me of a father who's daughter was inappropriately touched by one of the longest time CSA male workers and this father sought to be a diligent informer to other parents with a quietly handed envelope with the facts and warnings that this perpatrator was on the conv. grounds one year...and he was excommunicated for trying to do what he felt was the "quiet and right way to do". He wasn't making a big noise about it, but was trying to inform other parents and people who had children to care for. That is the exact reason why child sex abuse should be handled by the authorities. Those advocates of a quiet approach because their priority is to protect the fellowship at all costs, are likely to lash out at anyone who tries to expose criminal behaviour amongst them. People in Victoria now are saying that this perpetrator is living in a beach holiday house and provided with a new mobile phone which has been used to contact one of his victims. |
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 15, 2010 16:32:29 GMT -5
Once again, this thread confirms that the ministry and fellowship lacks the ability and the will to root out the CSA from amongst us. Thank God that we live in an age where the secular authorities have an interest in protecting our children from this evil crime. Did you take the CSA training that I paid for and offered to anyone here? It's paid for for 2010... are any interested?? If so PM me. I did tell Ministrysafe to donate the module to someone who would use it more but they didn't want to. So if no one takes the training it's still a donation to a good cause. Or if you'd prefer to arrange it yourself, it would be time better spent than sitting here  ; Click -> WINGS (Web site by a group of exes and friends.) Click -> darkness2light.org (highly recommended by a worker) Click -> ministrysafe.com (many workers have taken this training) Click -> childluresprevention.com Click -> childwelfare.gov Click -> False accusers get sued for 25 million. Click -> Excerpt of a letter written by a young Sister Worker to Tharold Sylvester |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2010 16:35:27 GMT -5
This thread shows the folly of presenting the responsibility for reporting CSA and other child abuse cases, to be that of the parents only, since in a high percentage of cases the persons responsible are the parents or guardians themselves.
I'm thankful that in my country (UK), the civic and moral responsibility falls on every adults shoulders.
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Post by landdownunder on Aug 15, 2010 16:37:13 GMT -5
Please provide this training module for Scott Ross to distribute here and on wings. Thanks kindly.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 15, 2010 16:49:54 GMT -5
The MinistrySafe training required the purchase of a yearly module, and a small amount per individual training session. I've got to log in and see if it still works - and I'm leaving right now. I'll try and get it done in the next few days.
Meanwhile, if any prefer the darknesstolight training was $15 last year and can be done one at a time.
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Post by JO on Aug 15, 2010 17:07:40 GMT -5
Yes they can report CSA, but what I really meant was that people whine about workers committing CSA, workers should get trained, workers this, workers that, etc.andonandonandonandonetc. - - - well workers are taking CSA training which is more than you can say about the blamestormers on here. So, why can't the workers demand the blamestormers take CSA training? Jesse, I must admit I don't understand why you're so protective of CSA perps and those who shelter them. Why is the ministry so reluctant to: 1. Announce a zero-tolerance policy towards CSA in its ranks 2. Apologize for all CSA committed by its representatives, and 3. Provide CSA training for all workers. Why wouldn't the ministry want to show some moral leadership in this matter? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2010 17:17:15 GMT -5
The ministry needs to start by putting the protection of children and young persons and other vulnerable people within the fellowship, first and foremost in their domestic arrangements.
1) Workers should not stay overnight at homes where unrelated children and other vulnerable persons reside. This should be applied with common sense.
2) Workers should not share the same beds and if possible should have their own rooms.
3) Workers should not be left alone with unrelated children and other vulnerable persons. Reading bedtime stories to young children should not be entertained.
There are others. However, the above should be applied with common sense, but the protection of children should always come first. Workers need to acquire a modern mind so that they can appreciate the absolute necessity to be governed by restrictions as above.
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Post by landdownunder on Aug 15, 2010 17:18:31 GMT -5
The MinistrySafe training required the purchase of a yearly module, and a small amount per individual training session. I've got to log in and see if it still works - and I'm leaving right now. I'll try and get it done in the next few days. thank you Jesse, I'm looking forward to it  |
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Post by landdownunder on Aug 15, 2010 17:23:51 GMT -5
Why is the ministry so reluctant to: 1. Announce a zero-tolerance policy towards CSA in its ranks 2. Apologize for all CSA committed by its representatives, and 3. Provide CSA training for all workers. Why wouldn't the ministry want to show some moral leadership in this matter? If no statement was forthcoming from the US Head Worker Meeting held at Seneca recently then obviously there are no such policies or concerns by the senior hierarchy of the Meetings. Time to sink or swim, friends. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2010 17:28:31 GMT -5
I think option 3 may be the chosen one. Doing their best to just stay afloat!
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Post by JO on Aug 15, 2010 17:33:19 GMT -5
The ministry needs to start by putting the protection of children and young persons and other vulnerable people within the fellowship, first and foremost in their domestic arrangements. 1) Workers should not stay overnight at homes where unrelated children and other vulnerable persons reside. This should be applied with common sense. 2) Workers should not share the same beds and if possible should have their own rooms. 3) Workers should not be left alone with unrelated children and other vulnerable persons. Reading bedtime stories to young children should not be entertained. There are others. However, the above should be applied with common sense, but the protection of children should always come first. Workers need to acquire a modern mind so that they can appreciate the absolute necessity to be governed by restrictions as above. What about: A worker should not be with a child unless one of its parents are present.Of course, its important that parents do their part. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2010 17:46:11 GMT -5
I agree JO, but I think option 3 covers that one. In all cases though, apply common sense.
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Post by sharonw on Aug 15, 2010 18:41:43 GMT -5
Yes, some workers are CSA perps. What do you propose should be done about these? What about one who is now known to have operated with good protection and opportunity in the work for 30 years in Victoria? How do you propose people whose children or mums themselves who might have been at risk should be informed? Strangely enough, I'd gotten the impression at the first, that though this particular went back 30 yrs. that the workers were not cognizant of its' happening. That is amazing in itself....I'm wondering if perhaps this 30 yr. old situation was perhaps not treated just like the ones in USA that were known of being 40-50 yrs. old? Just wasn't thought to be harmful but just a sexual thing to be handled "discreetly"? |
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Post by sharonw on Aug 15, 2010 18:45:08 GMT -5
Reminded me of a father who's daughter was inappropriately touched by one of the longest time CSA male workers and this father sought to be a diligent informer to other parents with a quietly handed envelope with the facts and warnings that this perpatrator was on the conv. grounds one year...and he was excommunicated for trying to do what he felt was the "quiet and right way to do". He wasn't making a big noise about it, but was trying to inform other parents and people who had children to care for. That is the exact reason why child sex abuse should be handled by the police. those advocates of a quiet approach because their priority is to protect the fellowship at all costs, will lash out at any who expose criminal behaviour amongst them. People in Victoria now tell us that the perpetrator of this evil is living in a beach holiday house and provided with a new mobile phone so he can contact some of his victims. Yikes, another one coming up smelling like roses everytime! Where's the justice in all of that? |
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Post by JO on Aug 15, 2010 19:17:55 GMT -5
Reminded me of a father who's daughter was inappropriately touched by one of the longest time CSA male workers and this father sought to be a diligent informer to other parents with a quietly handed envelope with the facts and warnings that this perpatrator was on the conv. grounds one year...and he was excommunicated for trying to do what he felt was the "quiet and right way to do". He wasn't making a big noise about it, but was trying to inform other parents and people who had children to care for. That is the exact reason why child sex abuse should be handled by the police. those advocates of a quiet approach because their priority is to protect the fellowship at all costs, will lash out at any who expose criminal behaviour amongst them. People in Victoria now tell us that the perpetrator of this evil is living in a beach holiday house and provided with a new mobile phone so he can contact some of his victims. If professionals were involved I doubt they would want the perp contacting the victims at will. |
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Aug 15, 2010 21:17:33 GMT -5
Here is the percentage of the total for parents, relatives, unmarried partners of parent, foster parents, and legal guardians as perpetrators of CSA; 2000 65.7% -> Source 2001 68.2% -> Source 2002 62.2% -> Source2003 63.5% -> Source2004 63.9% -> Source2005 61.7% -> Source2006 61.4% -> Source2007 65.0% -> Source2008 65.7% -> SourceNote ; The "sexual abuse" numbers seems to be if there was sexual abuse only, if so there might be be sexual abuse included in the "multiple maltreatments" row too.Note; The numbers are from the US Department of Heath and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families. Click the "source" links for the actual tables. ....physical abuse and lack of care do not always and very seldom come with sexual abuse. those abuses come from anger issues and mostly poor parenting issues. Whereas sexual abuses come from a psychological abberation which actually is part of control issues. Rape of any form is about control not sex. Somehow I don't find that hard to believe! |
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Post by ScholarGal on Aug 15, 2010 21:26:49 GMT -5
I bought a Ministrysafe CSA training module in 2009 - it was applicable to parents and anyone else it was offered to anyone on TMB who was interested, Scott Ross was the only TMB reader who took it! It's not true that Scott is the only one who has taken the training. I had already watched the MinistrySafe training module (and recommended it to workers) before you purchased it. edit to add: I got the brush-off when I recommended this training to workers. I really hope they responded better to your recommendation. |
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Post by emy on Aug 15, 2010 22:20:25 GMT -5
statistics say nothing about the culture of the workers and friends. There might actually be a higher rate of worker CSA than in any other sector of society and there might be less parent abuse. How are we going to know unless we take statistics within the group. I think it is safe to say that the environment of the work is a unique demographic. also the environment of the meetings. Amazing speculation. I suppose I could speculate that there is a lower rate in both categories!! (But I won't. I'll assume it might be similar to the population in general.) |
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Post by ts on Aug 15, 2010 22:21:54 GMT -5
By law don't they already have that right? -- i.e., if they see anything that might suggest child abuse when staying in the homes of the friends, they are supposed to call the cops and let them sort it out. Yes they can report CSA, but what I really meant was that people whine about workers committing CSA, workers should get trained, workers this, workers that, etc.andonandonandonandonetc. - - - well workers are taking CSA training which is more than you can say about the blamestormers on here. So, why can't the workers demand the blamestormers take CSA training? I bought a Ministrysafe CSA training module in 2009 - it was applicable to parents and anyone else it was offered to anyone on TMB who was interested, Scott Ross was the only TMB reader who took it! Because the workers are public figures and are accountable to the people they serve. If they are not, then they are not servants. They are given the privilege of automatic trust in the homes of friends and when that trust is breached (which it has been) then they need to comply with the edicts of the people they serve. The people that are "blamestorming", as you say, are not random people off the street. They are people who have been hurt and have something against their brother. Scripturally they have a right and even obligation to sort it out. But the "servants" are not listening to them. These people are minimized and ignored until frustration levels, in many cases, force them out of the fellowship. Then the blame and guilt(from the workers) gets turned on them. "See, they lost out. They had a spiritual problem." It would be a nice little experiment. What if they workers DID listen to those who were blaming and did just what they were told they should do? You know, like the friends are expected to do when the workers "suggest" things for the good of their souls. Try that for once and see if the blameflamers still have something to say. I dare say they will not and you will not have to waste any more of your time here defending CSA perps and the workers who supported them and hid them. While we are at it, we can go after the workers who are claiming to be celibate but have women on the side. Does that do any damage to the friends? |
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Post by emy on Aug 15, 2010 22:32:15 GMT -5
I bought a Ministrysafe CSA training module in 2009 - it was applicable to parents and anyone else it was offered to anyone on TMB who was interested, Scott Ross was the only TMB reader who took it! It's not true that Scott is the only one who has taken the training. I had already watched the MinistrySafe training module (and recommended it to workers) before you purchased it. edit to add: I got the brush-off when I recommended this training to workers. I really hope they responded better to your recommendation. I think Jesse meant Scott was the only TMB member to take it through his offer. I do know that the materials, if not the course, has been offered recently to the workers of our state. I hope most will make use of that opportunity. |
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Post by electbygrace on Aug 15, 2010 22:36:52 GMT -5
So are we to understand that this worker from Tasmania has been removed from the work and from fellowship and cut loose into society without any professional help or counseling for his problem?
The suggestion that he is living in a holiday house and has made phone contact with a victim of his abuse is truly astounding.
I know workers often don't understand society's norms but I would be amazed and disgusted if this is true.
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Post by JO on Aug 16, 2010 4:23:56 GMT -5
When a senior worker asserted that King James English is "honorific English" it seemed best to leave him in his ignorance.
Now that same worker is one of the overseers given the responsibility to handle this mess. Ignorance is hardly an option for such a serious matter. I hope someone close to these men can guide them to do what is right.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 5:00:41 GMT -5
My fear is that personal security and possibly undiclosed personal skeletons in the cupboard will govern direction and response more than scriptural, spiritual, moral and civic guidance.
I hope that I am wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 5:28:51 GMT -5
Jesusonly, are you saying there is a more "honorific" English translation to our bible? Which one is it?
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Post by JO on Aug 16, 2010 5:55:28 GMT -5
The Australian ministry proved it could be decisive when it expelled a faithful woman for marrying the love of her life, a divorced and remarried couple, and a man whose Sunday AM message was not one-true-wayish enough.
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Post by fred on Aug 16, 2010 6:05:37 GMT -5
Another possibility is that not a few of us have already had official training and refreshers over at least a 10 year period in the normal course of our employment..... not all is as it seems.  |
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 16, 2010 6:09:38 GMT -5
I bought a Ministrysafe CSA training module in 2009 - it was applicable to parents and anyone else it was offered to anyone on TMB who was interested, Scott Ross was the only TMB reader who took it! It's not true that Scott is the only one who has taken the training. I had already watched the MinistrySafe training module (and recommended it to workers) before you purchased it. edit to add: I got the brush-off when I recommended this training to workers. I really hope they responded better to your recommendation. To clear this up, a worker recommended it to me, every worker in that state had already taken the training. I thought I'd offer it to TMB readers so I bought a seperate module, Scott was the only TMB reader who took it though the module I bought. I suppose part of the reason people are reluctant to take it is because as JO says I insist on protecting CSA perps and those who cover them up.  |
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