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Post by sharonw on Aug 13, 2010 16:48:02 GMT -5
What encompasses cleansing? What is in the best interest of all truth? Do we really know all the details of this Tasmania case or just what we read here? I don't think so. Well.... I can tell you that what we read here is definitely far from all the details about this!! I am not real sure if it is all going to be brought out or not, although if just what we read about here is dealt with that would be a good start! Scott  this is true! |
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Post by Gene on Aug 13, 2010 19:58:53 GMT -5
Sharon, consider yourself exalted. This is the type of exaltation that the TMB thief cannot rob you of! ...and moths and rust cannot corrupt... |
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Post by landdownunder on Aug 13, 2010 22:22:01 GMT -5
What encompasses cleansing? good questions, L And a simple answer, imo. Removal of all known and verified perpetrators of child sexual molesting from amongst the Vic/Tas staff.. immediately. Zero tolerance to CSA within the work in Vic/Tas. Would you suggest anything different, Linford? |
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Post by sharonw on Aug 14, 2010 8:45:10 GMT -5
Sharon, consider yourself exalted. This is the type of exaltation that the TMB thief cannot rob you of! ...and moths and rust cannot corrupt...  |
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Post by sharonw on Aug 14, 2010 8:46:39 GMT -5
And a simple answer, imo. Removal of all known and verified perpetrators of child sexual molesting from amongst the Vic/Tas staff.. immediately. Zero tolerance to CSA within the work in Vic/Tas. Would you suggest anything different, Linford? And around the world, as well! Children are our hope of the future and the more we damage them, then sicker will society become...it becomes a viccious cycle, IMO |
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Aug 14, 2010 8:54:16 GMT -5
The worker problem can be fixed. The saddest part is there is more parental abuse of children than workers. There is more to abuse than sexual. It would be far harder to accuse parents even if it was 40 years later. Who would send their parents to jail?
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Post by sharonw on Aug 14, 2010 9:25:20 GMT -5
The worker problem can be fixed. The saddest part is there is more parental abuse of children than workers. There is more to abuse than sexual. It would be far harder to accuse parents even if it was 40 years later. Who would send their parents to jail? Lin, there is a flip side to this coin...for all the abusers who are NOT held accountable in this life...one shudders eh! |
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Aug 14, 2010 9:29:25 GMT -5
The worker problem can be fixed. The saddest part is there is more parental abuse of children than workers. There is more to abuse than sexual. It would be far harder to accuse parents even if it was 40 years later. Who would send their parents to jail? Lin, there is a flip side to this coin...for all the abusers who are NOT held accountable in this life...one shudders eh! It sure does Sharon. We wouldn't want to focus on what reveals itself and ignore the unrevealed. We don't hate the person,rather hate the spotted garment. |
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Post by sharonw on Aug 14, 2010 12:13:00 GMT -5
Lin, there is a flip side to this coin...for all the abusers who are NOT held accountable in this life...one shudders eh! It sure does Sharon. We wouldn't want to focus on what reveals itself and ignore the unrevealed. We don't hate the person,rather hate the spotted garment. Even when I'm faced with such things as accountability and hardships....I really thank the Lord for them...not only do they strengthen one, but it is paying just dues this side of the grave. I learned that at my Gram's knee...she said it was far better to pay for our errors this side of the grave and not ineternity...;... |
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Post by JO on Aug 14, 2010 20:01:36 GMT -5
The worker problem can be fixed. The saddest part is there is more parental abuse of children than workers. There is more to abuse than sexual. It would be far harder to accuse parents even if it was 40 years later. Who would send their parents to jail? Yes, the worker problem can be fixed. But workers have largely proved incapable of fixing it without pressure from the friends and outsiders. Just as they have largely proved incapable of fixing the dishonesty over the beginnings of the fellowship. What would Jesus do? John 18:19-20 Meanwhile, the high priest questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching. "I have spoken openly to the world," Jesus replied. "I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret. |
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Aug 14, 2010 21:52:48 GMT -5
The worker problem can be fixed. The saddest part is there is more parental abuse of children than workers. There is more to abuse than sexual. It would be far harder to accuse parents even if it was 40 years later. Who would send their parents to jail? I think you're right, Lin. The problem is deep and complex.There are many points at which it must be addressed. We all live in a complex network of relationships, and often many of these need to be analyzed and changed in various ways. We "give" certain people the authority to direct our lives in specific ways, often hardly aware we're doing so. And sometimes we grant authority or power through ignoring issues too. Sometimes a child is susceptible to abuse because of a parent's neglect, which is another form of abuse. This doesn't mean the perpetrator can be ignored, but it does mean that simply convicting perpetrators won't necessarily remove the entire problem. I like to move away from assigning guilt and blame, and begin to address the layers of hurt, so healing can begin for everyone involved. |
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Post by spiders on Aug 15, 2010 2:00:33 GMT -5
I have to express my great disappointment in the Tasmanian/Victoria workers... a couple of weeks after hearing about the allegations *(via the internet) against the vic/tas worker who has stayed in our home this year with us having two young daughters we have not been contacted by the workers or received a letter. It seems despite the hard work and advice of wings the good intentions have come to nothing. It is not a good situation for you to be in Ju. I think a lot of workers (especially men) do not have the necessary skills in talking with people about CSA. This is a problem for the friends in places like Hobart where there are no female workers. I suspect this could be part of the reason why the union meeting was cancelled. Here in Victoria, I have heard that some of the female workers are visting people and being open to discuss the issue of the perp. If they are open and honest about CSA it is a good time to help educate them (using the resources from WINGS). We have not received a visit yet, but this may not be too far away. It will be difficult for those who are not professing, but this should not preclude the workers from sharing information with you and giving you assurances that you rightly deserve, especially as the perp. has stayed in your home. Do you have any contact with the friends in Hobart that could be of support? My wife is an ex Tasmanian and would be happy to PM you if that would help. |
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Post by spiders on Aug 15, 2010 2:27:02 GMT -5
The worker problem can be fixed. The saddest part is there is more parental abuse of children than workers. There is more to abuse than sexual. It would be far harder to accuse parents even if it was 40 years later. Who would send their parents to jail? Lin, there is a flip side to this coin...for all the abusers who are NOT held accountable in this life...one shudders eh! The repentance and resortaion of the workers involved in CSA is one of the important things that need to be addressed. It seems in many cases the perpetrator does not see that they have done anything wrong and that if they actually get the victim to forgive them then everything will be alright. This is dangerous thinking and may lull them into a false sense of security in relation to their salvation. Jesus taught that true repentance is necessary before a right relationship with God can be restored. In many cases this has only occurred when the perpetrator has confessed of their crime to the legal authorities and faced up to the consequences. It has also been a time when victims can know true healing. |
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Post by Ju on Aug 15, 2010 6:04:08 GMT -5
Thanks Spider. I agree that the men workers are neither educated or able to address the issues of CSA yet they could simply circulate the letter and that would ensure that people were informed. The absoloute disregard or care for people who may have been effected or may find these issues hard to face is so disappointing. I can understand that for some of the workers this may be extremly challenging especially when they have spent time with the worker as a companion. However the opportunity to show courage and honesty has been missed.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Aug 15, 2010 7:28:37 GMT -5
An extensive article in our paper about sextortion via internet.Children go into chatrooms and are encouraged to expose and then are bribed into doing nude pictures. This is what I mean about the need of parental awareness of the dangers that are in everyday life.
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Post by sharonw on Aug 15, 2010 9:00:54 GMT -5
Thanks Spider. I agree that the men workers are neither educated or able to address the issues of CSA yet they could simply circulate the letter and that would ensure that people were informed. The absoloute disregard or care for people who may have been effected or may find these issues hard to face is so disappointing. I can understand that for some of the workers this may be extremly challenging especially when they have spent time with the worker as a companion. However the opportunity to show courage and honesty has been missed. Reminded me of a father who's daughter was inappropriately touched by one of the longest time CSA male workers and this father sought to be a diligent informer to other parents with a quietly handed envelope with the facts and warnings that this perpatrator was on the conv. grounds one year...and he was excommunicated for trying to do what he felt was the "quiet and right way to do". He wasn't making a big noise about it, but was trying to inform other parents and people who had children to care for. That situation perhaps has been the hardest one for me to get past and I'm sure I'm not past it and won't be until the workers that are NOW in power do something collectively to be sure that such perpatrators are NEVER again allowed where the children are.....and these workers have allowed this particular perp some pretty extensive freedoms even though he's been ousted from the work. I cannot handle that....esp. after having seen the judging about the D&R issues by the workers so strictly! It isn't fair and just at all! |
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Post by ts on Aug 15, 2010 11:41:05 GMT -5
The worker problem can be fixed. The saddest part is there is more parental abuse of children than workers. There is more to abuse than sexual. It would be far harder to accuse parents even if it was 40 years later. Who would send their parents to jail? It is important to note that the workers are spiritual leaders. If they are abusing children secretly, the spirit of that goes out into the field and affects the friends(beyond the one that was molested). Also, there is the fact that these abused children do grow up into adults and abuse many adults who were abused as children abuse their children. Many adults do not abuse their children but they are definitely affected the rest of their lives by the abuse. Their relationships suffer. The workers need to be held accountable. A confession and open acknowledgment goes a long way towards healing. The sooner that can happen the better. It is a shame that these abuse cases have been hidden for 30 or 40 years. The workers knew about the abuse and chose not to do anything to help the victim. Do the workers compensate the victims and help them get counseling? The point is, the workers should be a moral force to prevent these abominations from happening. Instead they have contributed to the destruction of lives. |
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Post by emy on Aug 15, 2010 12:43:00 GMT -5
It is important to note that the workers are spiritual leaders. If they are abusing children secretly, the spirit of that goes out into the field and affects the friends(beyond the one that was molested). Also, there is the fact that these abused children do grow up into adults and abuse many adults who were abused as children abuse their children. Many adults do not abuse their children but they are definitely affected the rest of their lives by the abuse. Their relationships suffer. The workers need to be held accountable. A confession and open acknowledgment goes a long way towards healing. The sooner that can happen the better. It is a shame that these abuse cases have been hidden for 30 or 40 years. The workers knew about the abuse and chose not to do anything to help the victim. Do the workers compensate the victims and help them get counseling? The point is, the workers should be a moral force to prevent these abominations from happening. Instead they have contributed to the destruction of lives. Is the conclusion I should draw from your post that worker abuse is a greater sin/problem than parental abuse, though parental abuse is more widespread? Just a clarification, please. |
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Post by ts on Aug 15, 2010 12:56:38 GMT -5
No, not at all. I think it is irresponsible and shortsighted for the workers to distance themselves from the abuses that took place years ago. What happens is that the victims grow up making bad choices because of the abuse. Their relationships and families suffer YEARS later. Then the workers can turn around and blame them for their choices and take no responsibility for having caused the ruination of a life and the next generation.
Parent abuse does happen outside of that system, certainly. It is well known that abuse is hereditary. However, we are talking about abuse within the system. The workers, as spiritual leaders, SHOULD be a moral force to build up families to wipe out abuse. In my case, I came from an abusive background and met the same dysfunctional abuse in the work. I fully expected that godly men would not be abusive. I think that is a reasonable expectation. If they are, they should be accountable. They are not accountable.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 15, 2010 13:09:58 GMT -5
Lin's right. Here are the statistics for 2008 which are the most recent ones. Note this chart is for all types of abuse, there is data out there that identifies perpertrator relationship with specific abuse types, I'll try to find it; Child Maltreatment 2008 |
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Post by ts on Aug 15, 2010 13:17:12 GMT -5
those statistics make sense. That is why it is so serious when a clergy member abuses a child. He is not just affecting one child but possibly several generations of children. The church should be a place of refuge from all this abuse. Instead it is a refuge for perpetrators.
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Post by sharonw on Aug 15, 2010 13:42:07 GMT -5
It is important to note that the workers are spiritual leaders. If they are abusing children secretly, the spirit of that goes out into the field and affects the friends(beyond the one that was molested). Also, there is the fact that these abused children do grow up into adults and abuse many adults who were abused as children abuse their children. Many adults do not abuse their children but they are definitely affected the rest of their lives by the abuse. Their relationships suffer. The workers need to be held accountable. A confession and open acknowledgment goes a long way towards healing. The sooner that can happen the better. It is a shame that these abuse cases have been hidden for 30 or 40 years. The workers knew about the abuse and chose not to do anything to help the victim. Do the workers compensate the victims and help them get counseling? The point is, the workers should be a moral force to prevent these abominations from happening. Instead they have contributed to the destruction of lives. Is the conclusion I should draw from your post that worker abuse is a greater sin/problem than parental abuse, though parental abuse is more widespread? Just a clarification, please. The sin or crime is no greater, but the effects of it are because the workers are held up to be sinless spiritual leaders more often then not, that is what children often perceive. |
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Post by emy on Aug 15, 2010 13:48:10 GMT -5
The sin or crime is no greater, but the effects of it are because the workers are held up to be sinless spiritual leaders more often then not, that is what children often perceive. How true is that statement? Held up by whom? Themselves? (I have yet to hear a worker claim to be sinless.) Parents? (shame on them) |
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Post by emy on Aug 15, 2010 13:50:58 GMT -5
those statistics make sense. That is why it is so serious when a clergy member abuses a child. He is not just affecting one child but possibly several generations of children. The church should be a place of refuge from all this abuse. Instead it is a refuge for perpetrators. An abusing worker affects more children and more generations than any other abuser? Why is that? A refuge for perps ... that is a rather strong statement, IMO. 'Refuge' would indicate that perpetrators go there for protection. I don't think that is the case. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2010 13:54:56 GMT -5
Like Emy, I have never once heard a worker say they were sinless. When growing up, I never heard my parents or any of the parents of my friends even hint that workers were sinless. They were held up as examples of a godly life, yes--but not as sinless.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 15, 2010 13:59:40 GMT -5
Here is the percentage of the total for parents, relatives, unmarried partners of parent, foster parents, and legal guardians as perpetrators of CSA; 2000 65.7% -> Source 2001 68.2% -> Source 2002 62.2% -> Source2003 63.5% -> Source2004 63.9% -> Source2005 61.7% -> Source2006 61.4% -> Source2007 65.0% -> Source2008 65.7% -> SourceNote; The "sexual abuse" numbers seems to be if there was sexual abuse only, if so there might be be sexual abuse included in the "multiple maltreatments" row too. Note; The numbers are from the US Department of Heath and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families. Click the "source" links for the actual tables. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2010 14:17:13 GMT -5
I'm interested to know if these statistics are for the public at large or are they solely based up the F&W's sect?
I suspect one would not represent the other by a long way?
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Aug 15, 2010 14:32:46 GMT -5
Here's the actual numbers for sexual abuse by perpetrator for 2008;
Parent 16,322
Child Daycare Provider 1,001
Foster Parent 206
Friends or Neighbors 2,335
Legal Guardian 69
Other 13,056
Other Professionals 349
Other Relative 17,688
Residential Facility Staff 170
Unmarried Partner of Parent 5,276
Unknown or Missing 378
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total 60,253
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