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Post by YTIFB on May 22, 2006 7:56:08 GMT -5
Over the years I have known a couple of the workers to drink an alcoholic beverage of one kind or another in the evening before bed to help relieve stress or help them sleep.
I've never seen anything wrong with this.
I was visiting my brother-in-law yesterday and somehow, the subject of drinking came up. I told him that up until a couple months ago I would have a small glass of red wine each night before bed because it would help me get some sleep. (I had to stop because it started bothering my stomach.)
I could tell he was shocked. He kind of lit into me for it and I defended myself. He said that he didn't know of any of the friends that drank. I told him that I knew of several and in fact knew a couple of the workers that did.
He nearly exploded! I thought he was going to kick me out of his house. He called me a liar and accused me of trying to spread poison about the Truth, Friends, and Workers.
I've known this man for 33 years. I had no idea he was so uptight and ignorant.
If I had to put up with all the crap that the workers put up with these days, I think I'd go beyond an occasional drink. I'd probably start a distillery in the trunk of my car.
So my question is...
Am I the only one that has noticed some of the friends having a drink?
Am I the only one that has noticed some of the workers drinking?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2006 8:11:05 GMT -5
In some of the European countries wine is an ordinary, everyday meal time beverage for most people, including workers.
A person has to be dishonest to imply that Jesus made rules against all forms of alcoholic beverages. It is very clearly documented in the gospels that Jesus drank wine with the ordinary folks he moved amongst.
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Post by amazed on May 22, 2006 8:32:16 GMT -5
I'm not saying this isn't true but I just can't imagine a worker going into a liquor store or going through the grocery store check-out with a bottle of wine. Maybe if they went to a town where they were fairly sure that there were no friends around possibly, but even still, it's hard to imagine.
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Post by Believe it on May 22, 2006 8:49:09 GMT -5
I'm not saying this isn't true but I just can't imagine a worker going into a liquor store or going through the grocery store check-out with a bottle of wine. Maybe if they went to a town where they were fairly sure that there were no friends around possibly, but even still, it's hard to imagine.
Recently a worker came to visit my son for supper - and brought the wine.
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Post by amazed on May 22, 2006 8:50:16 GMT -5
What country?
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Post by YTIFB on May 22, 2006 9:39:55 GMT -5
The workers I was posting of are in the USA.
Both are still here and still in the work.
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Post by amazed on May 22, 2006 9:44:50 GMT -5
Wow. That's really hard to grasp. I couldn't even wear culotte's to preps but it's OK to drink alcohol? I know they are different things but in my young mind (at the time) if you had asked me which was worse I would have said....drinking alcohol and I'm pretty sure my parents would have agreed. They were the ones who bought me the culottes.
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Post by amazed on May 22, 2006 11:27:40 GMT -5
This is all new to me. I was brought up that alcohol was a sin in the f&w.
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Post by cough syrup on May 22, 2006 12:06:02 GMT -5
B. Hilligoss once said a sip or two of brandy is the best cough medicine....
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Post by European on May 22, 2006 12:40:13 GMT -5
This thread is another example of the weird doctrines, attitudes, thoughts and prejudices that emanate from USA and canada.
Here in Europe I've been offered beer by workers at a post convention cleanup. Its common to have wine with a meal, workers too.
I know of little abuse or alcoholism (but some).
Its another example of "My experience is this... to EVERYONES must be the same, and I don't believe anything to the contraray".
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Post by l on May 22, 2006 14:09:48 GMT -5
In some of the European countries wine is an ordinary, everyday meal time beverage for most people, including workers. A person has to be dishonest to imply that Jesus made rules against all forms of alcoholic beverages. It is very clearly documented in the gospels that Jesus drank wine with the ordinary folks he moved amongst. I never found worker or elder to come out clean on that issue Edgar they will say it was the grape juice
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Post by l on May 22, 2006 14:11:42 GMT -5
In some of the European countries wine is an ordinary, everyday meal time beverage for most people, including workers. A person has to be dishonest to imply that Jesus made rules against all forms of alcoholic beverages. It is very clearly documented in the gospels that Jesus drank wine with the ordinary folks he moved amongst. I doubt Edgar that Jesus consumed large amounts of alcohol The new wine was most often drank the type that never had a chance to ferment
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Post by Zorro on May 22, 2006 14:13:37 GMT -5
I never found worker or elder to come out clean on that issue Edgar they will say it was the grape juice
I wonder why Jesus' detractors called him a "winebibber".
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Post by l on May 22, 2006 14:14:03 GMT -5
This is all new to me. I was brought up that alcohol was a sin in the f&w. I've heard where some friends will eat out and order a bottle of wine I always wondered how true this was
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Post by l on May 22, 2006 14:16:05 GMT -5
I never found worker or elder to come out clean on that issue Edgar they will say it was the grape juice I wonder why Jesus' detractors called him a "winebibber". It probably was the new wine zorro they type that hadn't had a chance to ferment
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Post by one of them on May 22, 2006 14:24:00 GMT -5
If you think strong drink is forbidden, PLEASE read your Bibles more carefully. But do keep these verses in mind, as well. Rom 14: 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and *drunkenness*, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. Eph. 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, ... 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; ...And there are some others, as well.
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Post by kiwi on May 22, 2006 14:35:56 GMT -5
Teenager said he has know workers to drink alcohol for health reasons. What health reasons does one have to drink alcohol for? That is just an excuse, like some women in meetings say that they cut their hair for health reasons, workers leave the work 'for health reasons'. Health reasons is an excuse to do what one wants. I can believe the last 2 for health reasons but drinking alcohol for health reasons is a joke. I have never heard a doctor prescribe alcohol for health reasons. Health reasons, the settle the nerves?
In New Zealand professing people drink wine with their meals. Of course many in fact probably most don't. In groups when they go out for dinner they drink wine. I have even known a elder whose daughter is a worker who always has alcohol in the truck of his car and his eyes are always red from drinking. I know at least 2 people who were alcoholic in the meetings.
You know it is a big sin to have a TV, but not to drink alcohol. The Jews did not drink alcohol for the fun of it, they drank it at special occasions such as weddings.
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BC
Senior Member
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Post by BC on May 22, 2006 14:53:29 GMT -5
I never found worker or elder to come out clean on that issue Edgar they will say it was the grape juice I wonder why Jesus' detractors called him a "winebibber". It probably was the new wine zorro they type that hadn't had a chance to ferment Hi Las, A little info so that you can understand about "new" wine. I really enjoy wine and in our country there are no restrictions apart from what people impose upon themselves and their children. I enjoy studying about wine and the different areas and how certain varieties have come about. With the middle east their wine is the same as anywhere else, alcoholic. Non alcoholic wine has only been around for about 50 yrs. It is all to do with the season for grapes and the storage of the juice. Remembering the climate in the middle east. The juice extracted only lasts for a few days before it becomes undrinkable due to the start of the fermentation process, if the juice is stored in open containers it will quickly pass the wine state and become vinegar and then a skin of mould will form at which point it is good for nothing. so therefore it was stored in skin bottles. The verse that speaks of not placing new wine in old bottles as the bottles will burst, is speaking of skins of animals that were used to ferment wine in. If new wine was put in an old bottle the skin which was stretched in the first batch wouldn't have enough give for the fermentation that would take place in the second batch and therefore burst. The new wine that the bible speaks of is fermented wine from that season, old wine is from previous seasons the same as today some wines are better if they are cellared for a year or two others need to be drunk within an year or so of being put down.Old wine can also allude to the wine made from grapes late in the season and are not as sweet. At the wedding it was said "how come you bring out the best wine last and not first". This is because they used to bring the best wine out first while everyone was sober and their taste buds were functioning properly, after drinking alcohol for a while your taste buds are desensitised and you don't have the same ability to determine the intricacies of a good wine. Then they would bring out the old or not so good wine and they could all get rip roaring drunk. In those times there was no way to keep grape juice more than a day or two as the heat would immediately start the fermentation process, so therefore everywhere it speaks of wine in the bible it is the fermented variety as that was the ONLY way to preserve it. Did Jesus drink wine? Yes. Did he ever say not to drink wine? NO. he speaks of elders not being *Given To Wine*, this means addicted or dependant or a habitual partaker. Would Jesus ever tempt any one? NO. So if that is the case why would he produce the wonderful wine at the wedding if they were going to be frowned on if they partook. I believe that there is nothing scriptural to say that consuming wine is wrong but like everything in life it is to be done carefully and with moderation. Hi Kiwi, My experience also that there isn't a problem with having a little wine etc. I myself enjoy a glass of NZ's finest from time to time. [shadow=red,left,300]Regards BC[/shadow]
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Post by ghost on May 22, 2006 15:40:53 GMT -5
Teenager said he has know workers to drink alcohol for health reasons. What health reasons does one have to drink alcohol for? I have never heard a doctor prescribe alcohol for health reasons. ... Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
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Post by one of them on May 22, 2006 15:52:01 GMT -5
1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
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Post by las logged out on May 22, 2006 16:01:11 GMT -5
It probably was the new wine zorro they type that hadn't had a chance to ferment Hi Las, A little info so that you can understand about "new" wine. I really enjoy wine and in our country there are no restrictions apart from what people impose upon themselves and their children. I enjoy studying about wine and the different areas and how certain varieties have come about. With the middle east their wine is the same as anywhere else, alcoholic. Non alcoholic wine has only been around for about 50 yrs. It is all to do with the season for grapes and the storage of the juice. Remembering the climate in the middle east. The juice extracted only lasts for a few days before it becomes undrinkable due to the start of the fermentation process, if the juice is stored in open containers it will quickly pass the wine state and become vinegar and then a skin of mould will form at which point it is good for nothing. so therefore it was stored in skin bottles. The verse that speaks of not placing new wine in old bottles as the bottles will burst, is speaking of skins of animals that were used to ferment wine in. If new wine was put in an old bottle the skin which was stretched in the first batch wouldn't have enough give for the fermentation that would take place in the second batch and therefore burst. The new wine that the bible speaks of is fermented wine from that season, old wine is from previous seasons the same as today some wines are better if they are cellared for a year or two others need to be drunk within an year or so of being put down.Old wine can also allude to the wine made from grapes late in the season and are not as sweet. At the wedding it was said "how come you bring out the best wine last and not first". This is because they used to bring the best wine out first while everyone was sober and their taste buds were functioning properly, after drinking alcohol for a while your taste buds are desensitised and you don't have the same ability to determine the intricacies of a good wine. Then they would bring out the old or not so good wine and they could all get rip roaring drunk. In those times there was no way to keep grape juice more than a day or two as the heat would immediately start the fermentation process, so therefore everywhere it speaks of wine in the bible it is the fermented variety as that was the ONLY way to preserve it. Did Jesus drink wine? Yes. Did he ever say not to drink wine? NO. he speaks of elders not being *Given To Wine*, this means addicted or dependant or a habitual partaker. Would Jesus ever tempt any one? NO. So if that is the case why would he produce the wonderful wine at the wedding if they were going to be frowned on if they partook. I believe that there is nothing scriptural to say that consuming wine is wrong but like everything in life it is to be done carefully and with moderation. Hi Kiwi, My experience also that there isn't a problem with having a little wine etc. I myself enjoy a glass of NZ's finest from time to time. [shadow=red,left,300]Regards BC[/shadow]O.K. I understand better now so the 2x2s are a bunch of wine bibbers lol
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Post by las unplugged on May 22, 2006 16:02:57 GMT -5
Teenager said he has know workers to drink alcohol for health reasons. What health reasons does one have to drink alcohol for? I have never heard a doctor prescribe alcohol for health reasons. ... Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more. That advise isn't good for a alcoholic perhaps non alcoholic person it would be fine agreed
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Post by cms on May 22, 2006 17:07:51 GMT -5
Some workers must get lots of colds.
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Post by you on May 22, 2006 17:25:42 GMT -5
This is all new to me. I was brought up that alcohol was a sin in the f&w. I've heard where some friends will eat out and order a bottle of wine I always wondered how true this was you really must pull you head out of the sand there lloyd.
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Post by give on May 22, 2006 17:29:13 GMT -5
Teenager said he has know workers to drink alcohol for health reasons. What health reasons does one have to drink alcohol for? That is just an excuse, like some women in meetings say that they cut their hair for health reasons, workers leave the work 'for health reasons'. Health reasons is an excuse to do what one wants. I can believe the last 2 for health reasons but drinking alcohol for health reasons is a joke. I have never heard a doctor prescribe alcohol for health reasons. Health reasons, the settle the nerves? In New Zealand professing people drink wine with their meals. Of course many in fact probably most don't. In groups when they go out for dinner they drink wine. I have even known a elder whose daughter is a worker who always has alcohol in the truck of his car and his eyes are always red from drinking. I know at least 2 people who were alcoholic in the meetings. You know it is a big sin to have a TV, but not to drink alcohol. The Jews did not drink alcohol for the fun of it, they drank it at special occasions such as weddings. give the name and yours and we will believe ;D
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Post by Guest 1 on May 22, 2006 17:51:50 GMT -5
I am an elder and have had wine with my meals for 40 yrs or more. Many of the friends that I socialize also have wine with meals ,many having a good knowledge of the great variety we have in Australia.
That being said, there are also many friends who hold hardline views about drinking wine, considering it to be sinful. In a gospel meeting a brother spoke about it being a personal decision.
It's odd that drinking beer is looked at differently, and seems to be not as readily approved. In very thirsty weather I will have a 'stubby' of light at days end...a great thirst quencher with about one third the alc. content of wine !!!
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Post by Gene on May 22, 2006 18:50:57 GMT -5
I am an elder and have had wine with my meals for 40 yrs or more. Many of the friends that I socialize also have wine with meals ,many having a good knowledge of the great variety we have in Australia. That being said, there are also many friends who hold hardline views about drinking wine, considering it to be sinful. In a gospel meeting a brother spoke about it being a personal decision. It's odd that drinking beer is looked at differently, and seems to be not as readily approved. In very thirsty weather I will have a 'stubby' of light at days end...a great thirst quencher with about one third the alc. content of wine !!! Never experienced knowing a worker to drink, but there were several I worked with who believed it was okay - but they refrained due to the prevailing opinion in the States. Have known many friends who drink wine or beer with meals - not so much the hard liquor, though. As for "new wine was wine that had not yet fermented" -- I think I've heard the same from some workers as support for their "alcohol is a sin" teaching.
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Post by las unplugged on May 22, 2006 18:53:11 GMT -5
Are the 2x2s a bunch of wine bibbers am I on the right message board ;D
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