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Post by las again on May 22, 2006 18:54:21 GMT -5
Me growing up a 2x2 drinking was forbidden
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Post by water on May 22, 2006 19:20:28 GMT -5
Me growing up a 2x2 drinking was forbidden water as well aye ;D
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bowhunter unplugged
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Post by bowhunter unplugged on May 22, 2006 20:04:24 GMT -5
I'm not saying this isn't true but I just can't imagine a worker going into a liquor store or going through the grocery store check-out with a bottle of wine. Maybe if they went to a town where they were fairly sure that there were no friends around possibly, but even still, it's hard to imagine. Sorry to burdt your bubble,but William Lewis openly recommended blackberry brandy for a cold remedy-even said his younger companions had slipped over to a neighboring town to buy it at a liquor store. I heard this with my own ears,from his lips in my parents home.
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Post by YTIFB on May 22, 2006 20:29:08 GMT -5
Health reasons was mentioned.
One of the workers I mentioned in the initial post would drink about 4 fl. oz. or so of some Jack Daniels Whiskey every evening before bed. We talked about it as I was drinking some red wine.
He said it helped calm his nerves and destress so he could get some sleep. I don't know if his doctor recommended it or not.
Me? My doctor actually told me that a little wine at night might help me destress - something I desperately needed after my mother died - I have a high-strung personality and my blood pressure was out of control. The wine was step 1, the meds were step 2.
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Post by l on May 23, 2006 9:27:07 GMT -5
Alcoholics can't drink so do not tempt them please I know a fellow he would only drink in evening he said he needed to couldn't sleep
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Post by ForeverFree on May 27, 2006 14:34:11 GMT -5
If the 2x2s are to be 'living the life of Jesus', why then is wine such a sin when Jesus himself drank it? Are they saying that they are even better than Jesus? Makes you think!
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Post by ex-teenager on May 27, 2006 14:47:41 GMT -5
If the 2x2s are to be 'living the life of Jesus', why then is wine such a sin when Jesus himself drank it? Are they saying that they are even better than Jesus? Makes you think! Having a drink of wine is not a sin. have never heard it being defined as a sin.
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Post by ForeverFree on May 27, 2006 15:07:28 GMT -5
If the 2x2s are to be 'living the life of Jesus', why then is wine such a sin when Jesus himself drank it? Are they saying that they are even better than Jesus? Makes you think! Having a drink of wine is not a sin. have never heard it being defined as a sin. I know that it is different in Europe, but in North America it is a sin amongst the 2x2s.
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Post by idfored on May 28, 2006 3:14:28 GMT -5
I am a professing in CA and drink little wine before bed. Catholics drink and smoke; I used to do. I do not find it sin in the bible. But Protestants made it like a sin. That's why some of you think it's a sin. Think about Jesus 's first miracle: he made water to wine! If he thought drinking is sin, he would have not done that.
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Post by ForeverFree on May 28, 2006 5:30:04 GMT -5
I am a professing in CA and drink little wine before bed. Catholics drink and smoke; I used to do. I do not find it sin in the bible. But Protestants made it like a sin. That's why some of you think it's a sin. Think about Jesus 's first miracle: he made water to wine! If he thought drinking is sin, he would have not done that. My point exactly!
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on May 28, 2006 6:55:43 GMT -5
Think about Jesus 's first miracle: he made water to wine! If he thought drinking is sin, he would have not done that. How do you know the wine was alcoholic?
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BC
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Post by BC on May 28, 2006 8:02:28 GMT -5
Think about Jesus 's first miracle: he made water to wine! If he thought drinking is sin, he would have not done that. How do you know the wine was alcoholic? The wine would have been alchoholic as that was the only sort of wine that was arround in those times. Read a little of the history of wine. If on the other hand you're saying that Jesus produced wine that was not alchoholic then you are saying that Jesus was tempting those that partook and to my knowledge Jesus NEVER tempted anyone. [shadow=red,left,300]Regards BC[/shadow]
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Post by l on May 28, 2006 9:40:48 GMT -5
To teenager Perhaps drinking is personal choice wasn't it said about John the Baptist he shall drink neither wine nor strong drink This thread is now closed
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Post by spiderman on May 28, 2006 11:34:45 GMT -5
If the 2x2s are to be 'living the life of Jesus', why then is wine such a sin when Jesus himself drank it? Are they saying that they are even better than Jesus? Makes you think! Having a drink of wine is not a sin. have never heard it being defined as a sin. Hi Teenager, Here's another example of how different people's experience in the workers religion can be. You say that you've never heard of drinking alcohol as a sin, yet at the last convention I attended a European worker spoke very eloquently about wine and how wonderful it is, spiritually and naturally. He was chastised immediately because of the prevailing teaching of alcohol as poison in the states. Later in the same convention our overseer, Jeff Thayer, stated that he would not baptize anyone who had a TV in their home, and in the same breath said, "Remember, alcohol is poison!" Then in the baptismal meeting that night the worker who spoke said you couldn't be baptized if you drank alcohol, because one of God's children had no business drinking it. Of course many of the friends just ignore stuff like that, and I did for years, but could no longer. I just felt like all those people who know and love me in the fellowship saw me as someone I really was not, and that's what bothered me the most. I don't care if anyone thinks it's a sin to drink or have a TV or whatever. That's their own conviction and it's fine with me. I don't want to try to change anyone's mind. I just have to live in the open, by my own convictions that I've arrived at by reading and praying and meditating. That is also the reason it might be a while before I cast my hat in any other religious ring.
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Post by spiderman on May 28, 2006 12:31:01 GMT -5
To teenager Perhaps drinking is personal choice wasn't it said about John the Baptist he shall drink neither wine nor strong drink This thread is now closed Las, Why do you think this thread is closed?
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BC
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Post by BC on May 28, 2006 13:25:09 GMT -5
Spidey, Hi, how is it going? This is it in a nut shell, Christianity or our journey with God is STRICTLY between God and our selves. The workers are there as our guide and help should we need or desire it but the rules we follow should be from within. A God prompted concience and the examples/guidelines we have in the bible should surely be enough. To have people policing us then comes down to living under a law, and Jesus died to free us from the law? A pet of mine is this thing about drink and wine etc. Surely it is so clearly a God given wonderful drink and advocated so much in the Bible that I fail to see why folk can not see this. If there was anything wrong with it Jesus would have turned water into Grape juice or Evian or something else. And NO-ONE give me that "but it wasn't alchoholic" crap because it was.... all wine of those times was. oops ...... I will just hop of my soap box ...... sorry spidey I tend to get wound up on some of these issues. Hope you are haveing good times. [shadow=red,left,300]Regards BC[/shadow]
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Post by thinking on May 28, 2006 13:58:46 GMT -5
Well since we are talking about wine here, I think I am going to have a glass now....it is really great grape juice. and I just got home from meeting....so there...
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whatever turns you on
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Post by whatever turns you on on May 28, 2006 18:42:56 GMT -5
Your talking to an alcoholic. Yes, I understand that drinking in moderation might indeed be beneficial. For me...who am working on a fifth of vodka (and about to make a beer run) alcohol is...has it's good moments. I prefer oxycontin & marijuana. God created wonderful substances such as marijuana, and opium...and I think that those of us who chose to use...should use. Hey....whatever turns you on, baby.
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Post by spiderman on May 28, 2006 22:37:34 GMT -5
Spidey, Hi, how is it going? This is it in a nut shell, Christianity or our journey with God is STRICTLY between God and our selves. The workers are there as our guide and help should we need or desire it but the rules we follow should be from within. A God prompted concience and the examples/guidelines we have in the bible should surely be enough. To have people policing us then comes down to living under a law, and Jesus died to free us from the law? A pet of mine is this thing about drink and wine etc. Surely it is so clearly a God given wonderful drink and advocated so much in the Bible that I fail to see why folk can not see this. If there was anything wrong with it Jesus would have turned water into Grape juice or Evian or something else. And NO-ONE give me that "but it wasn't alchoholic" crap because it was.... all wine of those times was. oops ...... I will just hop of my soap box ...... sorry spidey I tend to get wound up on some of these issues. Hope you are haveing good times. [shadow=red,left,300]Regards BC[/shadow]Sounds like we agree here , BC. I know some of the workers would agree with you too, unless they were in the company of other workers who thought differently. I'm afraid there are still quite a few policemen and women out there in the work. We are well and happy. Thank-you, BC
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Post by guesty on May 28, 2006 23:08:00 GMT -5
I suppose it would depend on who the "friends" were. And I wonder why Jesus detractors call his followers "2x2s"
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Post by woweeee on Jul 31, 2007 12:17:47 GMT -5
workers drinking - now there a new one
is this behavior becoming allowed now?
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Post by ithascome on Jul 31, 2007 12:47:57 GMT -5
A dependable source told me that Willie Jamieson had a drinking problem. He often carried a flask with him and called it his cough medicine. He also carried mints with him. Sometimes Uncle Willie would disappear for 3 to 4 days and no one would know where he was. Those who knew about it would cover it up and not speak of it. My dad mentioned once that Willie had gotten ill after drinking warm beer. In the PI beer was not considered taboo during WWII.
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Post by America on Jul 31, 2007 12:56:54 GMT -5
I do believe the strong aversion to alcohol is an American thing. In many other countries we do drink wine for communion (Not Grape Juice) and we do drink wine with meals.... And the friends to as well...
As long as you are not drinking in excess and being a drunkard. There is nothing with having a glass of wine.
It just reflects Americas ignorance to the rest of the world and there cultures.
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Post by ithascome on Jul 31, 2007 13:01:06 GMT -5
I think you should say American 2x2s.
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Post by ScholarGal on Jul 31, 2007 13:34:22 GMT -5
I think you should say American 2x2s. No religious movement can escape being influenced by its surroundings. In the USA during the 1920's alcohol use was prohibited by an amendment to the national constitution. This "Prohibition" was largely the result of an ongoing temperance campaign fueled by religious activists. Since the 2x2 church in America was a relatively new movement and still growing in the 1920's, I believe that the Prohibition left a long-lasting impression that consuming alcohol was a sin. In my experience among the friends and workers, the foreign countries that have been missions worked by American workers tend to have the belief that consuming alcohol is a sin. In countries where the workers came primarily from the UK and Ireland, consuming alcohol is not a sin. (USA and Canada are the exception... as I mentioned previously, they were heavily influenced by the Prohibition and American temperance movement.) ScholarGal
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Post by Any one for wine on Jul 31, 2007 14:11:58 GMT -5
The bottom line is that when Jesus went to the wedding in Caanan he was so NOT anti-alcohol that he turned the water into wine. I've always wondered how the christian world squared that particular circle. I had a Baptist girlfriend who was convinced that the wine was non alcoholic. Two thousand years ago! How deluded is that? My 2x2 parents were vehemently anti-alcohol but would still have the audacity to speak about this particular miracle on a Sunday morning.
The truth is that the Christian world, rather than focussing on being christian, is obsessed with being what is commonly referred to as "good living". Their focus is on living their lives according to a set of rules. And they scour the scriptures to find some verrse that adds weight to their belief while other verses which are open to a different interpretation are conveniently forgotten. No to alcohol. No to divorce. No to homosexuality. No to dances. The2x2s are full of it, the evangelical churches are full of it and this board is full of it. It was the same with the scribes and pharisees in Jesus day in fact the Christian world, while claiming to follow Jesus, has fallen into the same religious ways of those whom He condemned for their self righteousness.
Yes Jesus did drink alcohol whether you like it or not. Maybe some days he drank a little too much. So what? Everybody drank alcohol in those days. He probably had a wife too. Everybody else did. And children too. What's the big issue? Sounds perfectly normal to me. But the Christian world can quite get it - they want to have the Jesus they have created in their imagination - the non drinking, celibate, hymn singing, bible reading strict presbyterian living at home with his virgin mother rather than the revolutionary Jew who walked upon the earth and lived among his people like any other. I often wonder what the same Jesus would make of the religious today- probably much the same as he made of the religious last time!
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Post by Brother Schrock on Jul 31, 2007 15:04:13 GMT -5
I am an elder and have had wine with my meals for 40 yrs or more. Many of the friends that I socialize also have wine with meals ,many having a good knowledge of the great variety we have in Australia. That being said, there are also many friends who hold hardline views about drinking wine, considering it to be sinful. In a gospel meeting a brother spoke about it being a personal decision. It's odd that drinking beer is looked at differently, and seems to be not as readily approved. In very thirsty weather I will have a 'stubby' of light at days end...a great thirst quencher with about one third the alc. content of wine !!! Never experienced knowing a worker to drink, but there were several I worked with who believed it was okay - but they refrained due to the prevailing opinion in the States. Have known many friends who drink wine or beer with meals - not so much the hard liquor, though. As for "new wine was wine that had not yet fermented" -- I think I've heard the same from some workers as support for their "alcohol is a sin" teaching. Too bad those workers weren't around to set Jesus straight on the matter....
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Post by junia on Jul 31, 2007 15:42:21 GMT -5
Too bad those workers weren't around to set Jesus straight on the matter.... How about those Pharisees? Do they count? ;D
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