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Post by John Knee on Sept 6, 2007 13:29:36 GMT -5
When arguing that news of the founder of their church, William Irvine, is old news and anything about him is of no consequence, some 2x2s claim they and their families have known about him for years, decades, or even generations.
For those of you that make this claim, is this something you have discussed in the open, among other friends and family, even perhaps mentioning it in a meeting*? If so, where and when did you mention it and in what part of the world do you live?
*And before anyone whines "Why would someone mention William Irvine in meeting? He doesn't matter." let me say that if the pope, politicians, vehicle manufacturers, shoe sizes, the weather, paintings, pottery, and various chemical elements can be mentioned in meeting, then William Irvine could be worked into a testimony, if only in passing, as an element of some story, example, metaphor, or object lesson.
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Post by not by name on Sept 6, 2007 19:32:56 GMT -5
I hear quite often about those that fall away, but rarely is the persons name given out. I think this is out of respect that even though we see the results, we can remain anonymous to the people we care about, can't we. ?
I think that Saul the king fell off the wagon, too, but then that is more easily implied in the text of his life, as did others like Judas who betrayed Jesus, he fell off the way , too. Irvine is one person that I think of that had a good start, but i have no clue where he died. Do you know?
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 6, 2007 19:50:26 GMT -5
He died in Jerusalem March 9th 1947 of throat cancer.
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Compassionate Friend
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Post by Compassionate Friend on Sept 6, 2007 19:56:50 GMT -5
The bread shared in a meeting has much to do with the spirit each one brings to that gathering. It is my prayer that God will take what I have brought, bless it and make it worthy of HIS Amen. As for me, I want to remember that it is a feast not a forum and the reason I have any part is because Jesus made a place at the table for me. I'm not responsible for what my brother or sister has brought to that meeting. I pray that God's presense and name will be high and lifted up. God knows the intent of each ones heart. The spirit that was put in my heart was not put there by another man.
Phl 4:8 ¶ Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; IF THERE BE ANY VIRTUE, and IF THERE BE ANY PRAISE, THINK ON THESE THINGS.
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Post by nitro on Sept 6, 2007 20:15:01 GMT -5
Funny I have never been in a meeting where after the meeting we talked about the bible or chapter of the night. Now I did here Kenny Wahlin did this quite often explaining more in detail of what the chapter meant instead of taking a verse and making it your testimony. As a child I would have loved to hear someone explain in detail how the old and new testament tie into each other.And many more ? answered. Might be just our area too.
nitro
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 6, 2007 20:17:59 GMT -5
Sunday school for kids would've been great!!!!!
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Post by a friend on Sept 6, 2007 20:19:53 GMT -5
Let's cut the crap.
William Irvine isn't mentioned because to 70% of the friends, his mention would be traumatic, and 70% is just to high to take chances with someones illusions.
We hear from the workers often about being careful not to be an "offense to others". Rougly translated, this means we shouldn't mention things that may cause people to leave Truth; This includes mention of William Irvine.
There, I said it, no dodging the question or changing the subject.
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Post by Tell the history on Sept 6, 2007 20:27:15 GMT -5
One time after meeting we spent 30 minutes listening to one of the friends tell a story about how he had convinced an Amish man that his religion was based on the traditions of man.
Another time after meeting we spent 30 minutes listening to one of the friends tell a story about his bow-and-arrow hunting trip where he shot an 8-point buck then tracked it on foot for over 6 miles waiting for it to finally bleed to death.
Are these things edifying to the soul? Not hardly!
If these things can be discussed after meeting, surely someone could pipe up with a history lesson; "I've been doing some reading about the workers of over a hundred years ago and discovered an interesting account of the early days when George Walker first met William Irvine, the man who established our church."
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Post by nitro on Sept 6, 2007 20:42:24 GMT -5
It's routine for a lot of these family's. Sure it may surprise them even question others if this William Irving is a real story. But the fact of the matter is you have worker worship. If not George Walker,it was Clarence Anderson,or William Lewis,Now it may be Leslie White. You see the beginning to most in F&W is but a distant memory. They have the only way and the workers to prove it. William Irving who? Who cares most would say
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Post by bitconfused on Sept 6, 2007 21:28:54 GMT -5
It's routine for a lot of these family's. I'm confused. What are you saying is routine for these families? Discussing Irvine/founder openly in front of the friends/at meeting?
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Post by would of been good on Sept 6, 2007 22:07:38 GMT -5
Funny I have never been in a meeting where after the meeting we talked about the bible or chapter of the night. Now I did here Kenny Wahlin did this quite often explaining more in detail of what the chapter meant instead of taking a verse and making it your testimony. As a child I would have loved to hear someone explain in detail how the old and new testament tie into each other.And many more ? answered. Might be just our area too. nitro I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. I PROFESSED FOR TEN YRS BEFORE I TIED TO 2 TOGETHER THE OLD AND THE NEW AND THAT WAS AFTER I LEFT THE TRUTH CHURCH. WHILE IN IT, I WAS KINDOF TAUGHT THAT THE OLD TESTAMENT WAS NOT IMPORTANT THAT THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS OUR MAIN FOCUS. SO I DID NOT REALIZE HOW THE OLD LAW WAS FULLFILLED WITH JESUS ON THE CROSS, ETC. I READ IT MYSELF & TAUGHT MYSELF.
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Post by nitro on Sept 6, 2007 22:11:48 GMT -5
I'm confused Going to meeting,singing the same hymns, prayer and testimony.shaking hands,talk for about 10min and leave. I hope I cleared that up because I don't always write what I'm thinking(Thank goodness)
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Post by nitro on Sept 6, 2007 22:21:36 GMT -5
They don't care who William Irving is. Don't you get it? You could have a 2 hour meeting on William Irving and 80 to 90% of those who listen in on what was said still will believe this is the only way to heaven.They love the routine of it and love their friends and workers.
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Post by ITS LIKE THIS on Sept 7, 2007 8:22:12 GMT -5
The last hymn sung - and sometimes but VERY rarely is the discussion about what was just spoke on. AND even more rare, is someone acknowledging what the other spoke about. For example: "your testimony meant alot to me" etc... It is almost as tho the last hour didn't happen. I've often wondered about the role of the elder - especially when there are children in a meeting? I've often wondered why after a meeting, I feel so empty?
I'm almost AARP worthy and with the exception of worker visits around a dinner table hearing about an individuals introduction to the gospel, have I ever witnessed an open discussion about the history of the truth. And why should I? - the history IS that since Jesus gathered the 12 apostles ( workers) the gospel of the 2x2 has been on the earth. Simple as that. AND to make matters more mysterious, if ever I even started to question the history, I was reminded how special we are, reminded how beautiful the gospel (2x2) story is because it works and HAS BEEN working just like today since the days of Jesus, and on and on. I've been reminded that since the internet, there have been attempts made by the "bitter" exe's to destroy the gospel (2x2) message on the earth, and those bitter people - even tho sometimes they are funny, they most likely never comprehended the truth anyway. The devil is hard at work trying to destroy the minds of professing Godly people and will stop at nothing. So to all of you "bitter" exes out there: your past is meaningless to a great majority of "the faithful". As if you didn't already know. And to all any or all of us that question? It's the devil knocking at our door.
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timber
Senior Member
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Post by timber on Sept 7, 2007 8:34:18 GMT -5
Its my experience too that discussions of the Bible or spiritual matters are rarely discussed after meetings are over. I have attempted to initiate these conversations, but often times the other person seemed uncomfortable talking about it, so I stopped.
Its almost as if reality has been suspended for an hour or so, and when its over, its back to every day life - work, vacations, caretaking of the house and so on. Perhaps this is more realistic to most of us? I don't know..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2007 8:40:53 GMT -5
Sam Jones' name appeared on this site in another thread. He was a well known worker in his day. Only once, in 60 odd years, have I heard his name mentioned in a meeting - and that by myself in referring to a hymn he wrote. If the meetings focussed upon the history of the workers, I wouldn't go.
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Post by selah on Sept 7, 2007 9:01:51 GMT -5
Few true believers (none) would be interested in continued meetings that were simply history lessons. However the same would likely be true if the meetings consistently focussed on the denial of their history.
The focus needs to be on Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.
Blessings, Linda
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2007 9:20:34 GMT -5
We don't mention Irvine in a meeting because of the implication that our church is purely a man made affair (we believe it is more than that.) We also don't mention evolution, the age of the universe, the authenticity of biblical documents, biblical history, philosophy, current events, prehistoric man, the Catholic Church, Tom Cruise, French poetry, rocky road ice cream or Paris in the summer time.
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Post by the real truth on Sept 7, 2007 9:32:03 GMT -5
That wasn't an implication. It's a known fact.
You're still living in denial.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2007 9:35:04 GMT -5
Well, here is an implication - do you believe in evolution?
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Post by las logged out on Sept 7, 2007 10:20:32 GMT -5
When arguing that news of the founder of their church, William Irvine, is old news and anything about him is of no consequence, some 2x2s claim they and their families have known about him for years, decades, or even generations. For those of you that make this claim, is this something you have discussed in the open, among other friends and family, even perhaps mentioning it in a meeting*? If so, where and when did you mention it and in what part of the world do you live? *And before anyone whines "Why would someone mention William Irvine in meeting? He doesn't matter." let me say that if the pope, politicians, vehicle manufacturers, shoe sizes, the weather, paintings, pottery, and various chemical elements can be mentioned in meeting, then William Irvine could be worked into a testimony, if only in passing, as an element of some story, example, metaphor, or object lesson. Today if anyone heres about W.I they can search it out on Internet fairly fast not so in early days...I would be willing to bet those who knew W.I was founder never had all the facts neither years ago
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Post by las logged out on Sept 7, 2007 10:23:23 GMT -5
Let's cut the crap. William Irvine isn't mentioned because to 70% of the friends, his mention would be traumatic, and 70% is just to high to take chances with someones illusions. We hear from the workers often about being careful not to be an "offense to others". Rougly translated, this means we shouldn't mention things that may cause people to leave Truth; This includes mention of William Irvine. There, I said it, no dodging the question or changing the subject. There are probably many folks who wouldn't agree with this simple put some view the 2x2s as cult anyway & any warning to others should be welcome
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Post by this is on Sept 7, 2007 10:24:27 GMT -5
Well, here is an implication - do you believe in evolution? This is not relevant to discussion of William Irvine, who started the church you attend.
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Post by HelenGreene on Sept 7, 2007 10:28:28 GMT -5
Our kids can't do sports, but yet the workers go hunting. Isn't hunting and fishing a sport?
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Post by firstborn on Sept 7, 2007 10:57:57 GMT -5
We don't mention Irvine in a meeting because of the implication that our church is purely a man made affair (we believe it is more than that.) We also don't mention evolution, the age of the universe, the authenticity of biblical documents, biblical history, philosophy, current events, prehistoric man, the Catholic Church, Tom Cruise, French poetry, rocky road ice cream or Paris in the summer time. When I was 2x2 there was no mention of compassion or prayer for the families or victims of the 9/11 incident the Sunday after. No one prayed of the war, nor of anyone with health, personal issues. The bible teaches us to pray for all things, I'm glad I found this way, Help me to do better in this way, is NOT all things....
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Post by not so in the usa on Sept 7, 2007 11:03:05 GMT -5
Sam Jones' name appeared on this site in another thread. He was a well known worker in his day. Only once, in 60 odd years, have I heard his name mentioned in a meeting - and that by myself in referring to a hymn he wrote. If the meetings focussed upon the history of the workers, I wouldn't go. Bert, here in the US, we hear about Sam Jones all the time, even from the platform. He is a 2x2 celebrity.
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Post by wrong bert on Sept 7, 2007 11:14:59 GMT -5
We don't mention Irvine in a meeting because of the implication that our church is purely a man made affair (we believe it is more than that.) So rather than let people decide for themselves, you censor what they hear. I've heard this discussed during meeting, after meeting, in the dorm at convention, and in other 2x2 settings. I've heard this discussed during meeting, after meeting, in the dorm at convention, and in other 2x2 settings. I've heard this discussed during meeting, after meeting, and in the dorm at convention. I've heard this discussed during meeting, after meeting, and in the dorm at convention. I've heard this discussed during meeting, after meeting, and in the dorm at convention. I've heard this discussed during meeting, after meeting, in the dorm at convention, and in other 2x2 settings. I've heard this discussed in the dorm at convention, and in other 2x2 settings. I've heard this discussed during meeting, after meeting, and in other 2x2 settings. I've heard this discussed after meeting, and in other 2x2 settings. (In fact, the after meeting discussion was with regard to the sex scene in the movie Jerry Maguire.) You've got me there. What is French poetry anyway? Poetry that just quits half way through? I've heard this discussed after meeting, and in other 2x2 settings. You've got me there.
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Post by Frenchie on Sept 7, 2007 11:54:16 GMT -5
Quote:French poetry, You've got me there.
What is French poetry anyway? Poetry that just quits half way through? -------------------------------------- No, French poetry is any poetry that when you read it to your friend, your tongue sticks out.
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