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Post by mirror on Aug 20, 2007 4:32:28 GMT -5
I thought that the Church was about love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith. You made my point. Thanks.I agree, the Christian Church is about all of these things, yet every church reserves the right to excommunicate troublesome members. The Apostle Paul wrote to the church at Corinth to the effect that they should expel the incestuous man. The Apostle John wrote in his First Epistle about Demetrius who "loveth to have the preeminence among them", and whom he was planning to deal with in the future. The Church is not about chaos, with multiple people scorning the spiritual leadership, and doing their own thing in spite of the Church. Not everyone thinks Willis Prop is a jumped up Adolf, or that that Alberta was discipline triumphing over love. There are other views. We just don't get to hear them often on this forum. I wonder then why the really incestuous are not expelled but transfered to other fields overseas - with nobody in their new field being told about their previous behaviour. I wonder also why those really seeking preeminence and total obedience to their doctrines rather than the doctrines of Christ are not taken care of - only those that dare express disagreement with the «authorities». It is evident form your replies that this way is NOT Christ's way. It may be Irvines, Propp's or Bill's, it certainly s a cult with occult financing and mafia like management and methods - but GIT do not delude yourself, God has nothing to do with it. Of course you can go on preaching (many words say Solomon is a sin) and trying to prove that the earth is flat. But rest assured, those that went around the globe know that it is round whatever you , Nathan, Propp and all the others will say. Good night and good luck !
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Post by Edy you are a dill on Aug 20, 2007 4:58:16 GMT -5
How do you think a current member would react to Monica's plea for assistance.
Of course GIT would try to have her stay within the fold, the religious belief he has embraced.
You madam, are on the other side, you know far better than most of the need for people to have God and Jesus in their lives.
Dont encourage people to loose their connection with God.
Monica, if you leave, do not leave behind your love and connection to God.
Listen to your heart, follow it, do not follow the advice of people who's testomany is clouded by harshness and blindness.
Be responsible for your own actions, make up your own mind.
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 20, 2007 6:52:24 GMT -5
I wonder then why the really incestuous are not expelled but transfered to other fields overseas - with nobody in their new field being told about their previous behaviour.
I think the travelling lifestyle would make it a little difficult for any Worker to practice incest, especially given that most Workers are assigned to Fields apart from their own families.
I wonder also why those really seeking preeminence and total obedience to their doctrines rather than the doctrines of Christ are not taken care of - only those that dare express disagreement with the «authorities».
You're entitled to your particular views. I don't think everyone would share them, but you are entitled to express them.
It is evident form your replies that this way is NOT Christ's way. It may be Irvines, Propp's or Bill's, it certainly s a cult with occult financing and mafia like management and methods - but GIT do not delude yourself, God has nothing to do with it.
Irvine was expelled from the Fellowship in its formative years, so I doubt whether it could justly be called "his way". As for Willis Propp and Bill; well, suffice it to say, the Fellowship was alive and kicking long before either man was born.
Occult financing? I sort of got this fleeting image of a darkened room with voodoo priests doing a circle dance around a pile of cash. I'm not really sure what you are meaning here.
As for mafia-style management: amusing as it is to imagine Willis Prop with a heavy gold chain around his neck, fingers festooned with rings, and a Tommy-gun in his hands spraying unbelievers with bullets and saying, "The godfather gives you his blessing", I'm not sure it's really an accurate, appropriate or fair description.
Of course you can go on preaching (many words say Solomon is a sin) and trying to prove that the earth is flat. But rest assured, those that went around the globe know that it is round whatever you , Nathan, Propp and all the others will say.
Ok. You are entitled to express your views, and I have no problem with that. However, it behooves you to recognise that not everyone shares your perspective (least of all me), or your experiences. In this way hopefully we can facilitate smoother dialogue.
Good night and good luck !
Same to you, friend.
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Post by not possible on Aug 20, 2007 7:50:46 GMT -5
Ok. You are entitled to express your views, and I have no problem with that. However, it behooves you to recognise that not everyone shares your perspective (least of all me), or your experiences. In this way hopefully we can facilitate smoother dialogue. GIT, you're doomed to hell. That comment is intended to facilitate smoother dialogue since that is language you understand.
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Post by hummer on Aug 20, 2007 8:22:51 GMT -5
Is a H2 Type Hummer fully decked out a necessity or a luxury? If one buys this Hummer and uses it for their personal family vehicle and then registered it for use as a business vehicle because it is used to pull a trailor used in a business; is this considered an honest tax write off? It was purchased for the family use and put under the business such that it could be a write off. There is also a pickup truck available that is cheaper and more suited for pulling the trailor required for the business. Would this Hummer be considered a fraud since it really not required for the business? Good 2x2 people do things like this. This is cheating the tax man. The question must be asked, What practical purpose does this Hummer have towards the faimly use vs the business. Being fully decked out and very expensive, used mostly for the family is clearly not a necessity. It is vanity and then the vainity is covered up in the grey area of being a business write off. Good 2x2 never do anything wrong, yea right. Be advised to consult the tax code. This is perfectly legal. The amount of deduction is based on the pro-rated amount of business use vs personal use of the vehicle. A written record must be kept logging each trip. If a person is not honest in the record keeping, the government may never know, but certainly God sees. My problem with Hummers, fancy wheels, etc., is different. I consider them jewelry and adornment for men. Many don't share this view, and that is OK. Neither do I call attention to excessive stylishness to women. But for me it is better that I don't indulge in such.
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Post by Ohho on Aug 20, 2007 9:14:02 GMT -5
Is a H2 Type Hummer fully decked out a necessity or a luxury? If one buys this Hummer and uses it for their personal family vehicle and then registered it for use as a business vehicle because it is used to pull a trailor used in a business; is this considered an honest tax write off? It was purchased for the family use and put under the business such that it could be a write off. There is also a pickup truck available that is cheaper and more suited for pulling the trailor required for the business. Would this Hummer be considered a fraud since it really not required for the business? Good 2x2 people do things like this. This is cheating the tax man. The question must be asked, What practical purpose does this Hummer have towards the faimly use vs the business. Being fully decked out and very expensive, used mostly for the family is clearly not a necessity. It is vanity and then the vainity is covered up in the grey area of being a business write off. Good 2x2 never do anything wrong, yea right. Be advised to consult the tax code. This is perfectly legal. The amount of deduction is based on the pro-rated amount of business use vs personal use of the vehicle. A written record must be kept logging each trip. If a person is not honest in the record keeping, the government may never know, but certainly God sees. My problem with Hummers, fancy wheels, etc., is different. I consider them jewelry and adornment for men. Many don't share this view, and that is OK. Neither do I call attention to excessive stylishness to women. But for me it is better that I don't indulge in such. Consult the tax code. Humm what does that do if there is misrepresentation. That was the whole point of the questions. The person is a 2x2 and is lying to God and the Government. The person is also lying to all of their congregation in that they are pretending to be something they are not. It is also an issue about vanity. Is this big vehicle the best for the job, NO. Therefore there was a willfull intent to gain and feed vanity while trying to cover it as part of a business. Tax codes cannot make ones moral standing correct. If we use your TAX CODE excuse then lets see. It is OK to Go to the Casino because it is legal. It is OK to drink because it is Legal. It is Ok to divorce and remarry because it is legal. And so forth. Then why do the F&W's point fingers at these things and say they are wrong? I think you get the point.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 20, 2007 10:45:33 GMT -5
Ok. You are entitled to express your views, and I have no problem with that. However, it behooves you to recognise that not everyone shares your perspective (least of all me), or your experiences. In this way hopefully we can facilitate smoother dialogue. GIT, you're doomed to hell. That comment is intended to facilitate smoother dialogue since that is language you understand.The difference there is, GIT was not trying to be inflammatory just for the sake of it...it is part of his belief system....just as many other religion's member's believe if you don't practice *that* religion you are going to Hell. It might be good to recognize that difference. I happen to disagree with GIT on this particular point, but the fact remains.... M.
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Post by mirror on Aug 20, 2007 12:09:06 GMT -5
I see GIT. You took again the garment of the lamb. Of course I am entitled to my views, as long as I do harm to nobody. Can the Propps and Bills and GITs say the same - I doubt.
This thread started by somebody asking «How to exit». Then you came up and starting preaching to death in view of this person staying. You also mentioned that no cover-ups ever existed. I mentioned several ones, then you asked for facts and when I mentioned them explicitly you tried minimizing, ridiculising and preaching the dictatorship of the overseers.
In fact YOU NEVER REPLIED IN SUBSTANCE to my posts nor to my challenge to mention at the beginning of each of your meetings at the 300+ congregation that «A lot of information about the way we are following can be found on the internet. Just Google two by two and read the threads», and THEN tell us how many will be coming to your meetings.
And when confronted with the true nature of the 2x2 work i.e. 19 ...adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. instead of replying, you kindly tell me that I am entitled to my opinions.
Fortunately Jesus himself told us to 15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? I have known so many of your species in the real world (not in the anonymity of the virtual reality of the internet), I and my family have suffered so much from your lack of godliness and your mafia-like (save the bullets jokes for your friends dude) manners that I can only say to people willing to read and open their eyes: beware of the ravening wolves of the GIT and Nathan type. You will cry and suffer and lose your salvationa and your soul if you continue hearing to them. WAKE UP people, WAKE UP.
May God have pity on you and Nathan.
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Post by ranman77007 on Aug 20, 2007 12:23:15 GMT -5
hey Monica, put on them ruby slippers..... ......................there's no place like home, there's no place like home.......
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Post by Sylvestra on Aug 20, 2007 13:47:54 GMT -5
Nay! Git has spoken! Now we can all take our marbles and go home! You have made it plain what you think of me, Sylvestra. I do not think it needs to be hammered home on an ongoing basis. I get the message already. Thanks. I would truly like to know what "message" you got! This is like someone saying "I'm sorry for whatever it was that I did", without ever stating what the "did" was. So, no, I'm not sure that you do have the message. E
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Post by monica on Aug 20, 2007 14:23:39 GMT -5
Thank you to everyone who posted with honesty and without agenda. I have to admit some of the posts I just glazed over becuase they seemed to be muddled with things seemingly unimportant and with a not so pleasant spirit.
About a year ago I went from going 3-4 times per week down to 1 or 2 becuase my financial situation changed and in order to make ends meet and accompilsh my goals I needed to add a couple of part time jobs( I am young so this is not out of the ordinary).
One of our workers emailed me that he was worried that I may not be putting first things first because he hadn't seen me at his gospel meetings. A part of me was upset becuase I was just trying to pay my rent and keep food on my table. And I was doing what I had to do. I had no choice(seriously). It wasnt like I was just not coming to meetings or paryting all night. I was working myself to the bone and working 85hours a week.
Over this past year my attendence has gone down becuase of how much I have been working. I have had a great deal of peace lately. Several weeks ago out of the blue I had this feeling that if the Lord would take me that day that it would be okay. That I had gotten victory in the things he wanted me to get victory in, I did what was right when nobody was looking, and I did what was right in a situation that it was impossible to do what was right. I was close to my friends and family and had no unfinished business. I had the greatest amount of peace that I have had in my entire life, in that moment. He has delivered me, proved me, and provided for me in ways I couldn't even begin to tell. So my faith isn't weak or in question. My deisre to leave has nothing to do with rebellion. I am probably the least rebellious in my entire life.
So for me this isn't about rebelling, or wanting things" of the world, or just wanting something new. It is becuase I have done what he has asked in certain things, and have done what is right and I have peace and it has nothing to do with the way. In fact for the first time the only thing not giving me peace, is the way. In fact, there are things with the way that don't always seem "right" to me.
I believe that God remembers them that remember him. I have travelled all over the world and speak a couple of difference languages. I have also dated someone of a different culture and faith. I struggle to believe that you have to be a part of this church in order to be saved. My elder preaches about those that don't profess each Sunday and it really does bother me. Who is he to know who God will remember and who he won't? His is a wondeful Saint just the same...I have met and known people from all over the world that have a deeper conviction and faith than many of the friends I have known. Who are we to say God will not remember them wherever they are? How are we better than them?
Perhaps I didn't make much sense here but I was just curious if there was a way to exit that perhaps would be the most respectful. I dont think this way is a cult, becuase the definition of a cult is that it is impossible to leave. The way makes it very easy for one to leave.
I remember being in meeting in one of the bouroughs in NY and someone I met with said that many people move to the city come to meeting once or twice then just disapear. And friends move there from all over the world, then just disapear after a couple of meetings. I found that interesting. Perhaps moving to NY will be my exit strategy;-)
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Post by _ on Aug 20, 2007 14:58:16 GMT -5
I believe that God remembers them that remember him. I would be very careful with this statement... It is very close to the belief that God helps those who help themselves... or other work's based sayings/teachings. God gives us faith... it is not what we do for God, but what he does in us that matters... Once you step outside this exclusive belief, and look back at it for what it is, it becomes quite absurd to think only those in the 2x2 fellowship have a chance at salvation. And once you get past this false belief, then everything changes... it is hard to be a hearty 2x2 when you've removed the exclusiveness from your mindset. If you're looking for the "most respectful" way to exit, then you must ask if you mean "most respectful" from their perspective our your perspective... To me, the "most respectful" way to exit from their perspective would just be to quit, never bring it up, never talk to them about it, and never make them uncomfortable by your leaving the fellowship... However, I could not recommend this if you are thinking of the "most respectful" way to exit the fellowship from your perspective... I strongly disagree at the suggestion that it's easy to leave... nothing could be further from the truth...
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Post by ScholarGal on Aug 20, 2007 15:00:14 GMT -5
To Monica---
I go to meetings, but I also understand and respect your decision to stop going to meetings. Here is my practical advice.
1. Tell your parents first. Do it in person if possible, but a letter written only to them will suffice if you can't do it in person. Trust me, it will be easier for them if they don't learn about your decision through the grapevine. Ask your siblings for advice beforehand if you think it will help. (Make sure your non-professing siblings also know about your decision.)
2. Call your meeting elders and let them know, or just wait around and tell them after meeting when everyone else is gone. Some elders set up exactly the number of chairs needed for each meeting-- so it is a matter of courtesy to let them know you won't be needing the chair.
3. Email the workers.
4. Don't let anyone hassle you. Come up with a short response if anyone asks why you're not coming anymore. Ex. "This is my decision and I've made my peace with God. Please pray for me as I embark on another stage of my spiritual journey."
5. Don't write a letter to everyone one you know. If they want to know your reasons, they will ask.
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Post by wtc on Aug 20, 2007 16:00:50 GMT -5
Thank you to everyone who posted with honesty and without agenda. I have to admit some of the posts I just glazed over becuase they seemed to be muddled with things seemingly unimportant and with a not so pleasant spirit. About a year ago I went from going 3-4 times per week down to 1 or 2 becuase my financial situation changed and in order to make ends meet and accompilsh my goals I needed to add a couple of part time jobs( I am young so this is not out of the ordinary). One of our workers emailed me that he was worried that I may not be putting first things first because he hadn't seen me at his gospel meetings. A part of me was upset becuase I was just trying to pay my rent and keep food on my table. And I was doing what I had to do. I had no choice(seriously). It wasnt like I was just not coming to meetings or paryting all night. I was working myself to the bone and working 85hours a week. Over this past year my attendence has gone down becuase of how much I have been working. I have had a great deal of peace lately. Several weeks ago out of the blue I had this feeling that if the Lord would take me that day that it would be okay. That I had gotten victory in the things he wanted me to get victory in, I did what was right when nobody was looking, and I did what was right in a situation that it was impossible to do what was right. I was close to my friends and family and had no unfinished business. I had the greatest amount of peace that I have had in my entire life, in that moment. He has delivered me, proved me, and provided for me in ways I couldn't even begin to tell. So my faith isn't weak or in question. My deisre to leave has nothing to do with rebellion. I am probably the least rebellious in my entire life. So for me this isn't about rebelling, or wanting things" of the world, or just wanting something new. It is becuase I have done what he has asked in certain things, and have done what is right and I have peace and it has nothing to do with the way. In fact for the first time the only thing not giving me peace, is the way. In fact, there are things with the way that don't always seem "right" to me. I believe that God remembers them that remember him. I have travelled all over the world and speak a couple of difference languages. I have also dated someone of a different culture and faith. I struggle to believe that you have to be a part of this church in order to be saved. My elder preaches about those that don't profess each Sunday and it really does bother me. Who is he to know who God will remember and who he won't? His is a wondeful Saint just the same...I have met and known people from all over the world that have a deeper conviction and faith than many of the friends I have known. Who are we to say God will not remember them wherever they are? How are we better than them? Perhaps I didn't make much sense here but I was just curious if there was a way to exit that perhaps would be the most respectful. I dont think this way is a cult, becuase the definition of a cult is that it is impossible to leave. The way makes it very easy for one to leave. I remember being in meeting in one of the bouroughs in NY and someone I met with said that many people move to the city come to meeting once or twice then just disapear. And friends move there from all over the world, then just disapear after a couple of meetings. I found that interesting. Perhaps moving to NY will be my exit strategy;-) Monica,
From what you have written above, I believe you know exactly what you are doing and you are doing it with open eyes and an open heart.
I wish you the best in your next journey with God.
God be with you.
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Post by 3 on Aug 20, 2007 17:08:02 GMT -5
Monica writes, "I have peace and it has nothing to do with the way. In fact for the first time the only thing not giving me peace, is the way. In fact, there are things with the way that don't always seem "right" to me."
Just in passing, when things 'within the way' began seeming a bit off to me, I tried ignoring them by attempting to convince myself that I was in God's true way, etc. I wasn't about to give any credence to that little voice within that was sending out warning signs.
Eventually, I became physically sick after attending Sunday morning & Wed nite meetings. That is what finally made me sit up, take notice, and acknowledge that I was given a brain for a reason & it was OK to follow through on those disturbing thoughts/ideas.
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Post by now an ex Praise God on Aug 20, 2007 19:33:39 GMT -5
to gloryintruth...I feel so very sad for you because I was where you are now..in serious denial...I'm sure you read your Bible..I did..if you are truly in 'Christ'..you will then leave where you are..no I didn't feel in 'bondage' for many years. I was raised in 'it'...drip fed you might say smatterings of Bible truths but littered with distortions, lies and ommisions (spelling).. the Bible warns of false doctrines..so yes if you are truly in Christ you will not be able to stay there..and I would certainly hope that for you. I did spend some years in the 'work'...but the past is the past..God is gracious and forgiving..and we can only move forward.
I'm not sure what claptrap is...but I do not claim 'exclusivity' God by His precious Holy Spirit will lead you not into a denomination ..or into the 'Protestant movement'..He will lead you into a real living relationship with Christ..putting His life in you..it is His presence within one's life that makes one a Christian..unless you consider that 'exclusivity'..
yes there are Churches out there and denominations out there that leave a lot to be desired...the JWS..the Mormons...seventh day and we can on and on..these latter also 'cults'...
you refer to 'it'as the fellowship...you know that is interesting..I understand that more that ever now...this social aspect..as far as the organization..it should be organized...what is wrong with something operating in a timely ,organized fashion??? what machinery do you refer to? the lack of accountabilty maybe and so much more..
yes the 'system' is man made..you might find a 'Church' established by a man sure...but the difference..is this..you need to be found in 'fellowship' with those that adhere to solid Bible teaching..'this' is not man-made..but God made..and no one absolutely no one should be satisfied with anything less!!!! I myself am so thankful to be attending such a Church..it is an evangelical Church..where solid Bible teaching is all you get..nothing added nothing left out..nothing to 'tickle' your ears..God-directed ..yes i think the building was established by a man..but 'the doctrine is' Biblical'..no deviation...that only is what matters..(actually it is a Christian School) and we meet in the auditorium..
yes they have taken Matthew 10 so totally out of context...vs 8..any workers doing this..and later in Matthew when He sent them back..take up your purse etc..excuse if word wrong..my Bible is in my car..( at work) and it' late..
and yes if you are found in Christ...and indwelt by His Holy Spirit..you will know Truth..so no ,not all religions are 'cults' the fact that cults exist does not take away from Truth ...
you can look up the definition a cult almost anywhere if you wish, maybe it will help..I wish it was not what it is..as I know many people there..my family etc and it is of great concen to me..
cover-up..my oh my , you are most certainly in 'denial' and your choice if you choose to stay there..yes it is sinking, will sink..what is most important is getting out of this 'boat' so you don't go down with it..oh my yes I and many other understand 'it' ...understood 'it' and it was exactly that combined with and honest appraisal of what we were involved in.. many of us for many many years..and yes God in His great love delivered us from 'it' the system into marvellous light, as we came to Him in repentance.
what do you mean 'outward manifestation of faith' please explain what point you are making there...have not yet got 'hung' up anything that I know of like this??
anyways don't know if this will help..hope so ..pray so
as far as being anonymous..Nathan 9 said..and blind leading blind??? MY ONLY COUNSEL..is seek God ..follow Him..study His Word..pray He will speak to you, show you His way..it's not about a 'church' or a creed it is Christ within..why would anyone attempt to follow someone on this board??? really a silly thing to say..sorry but it is..
I remain anonymous because I'm dealing with a serious situation..one of the 'wonderful' brother workers 'raped' me when I was a young girl.. I am not wallowing in this..only dealing with it..in fact it was so disgusting, shocking and terrifying at the time..that it was shoved deep into the recesses of my mind..would never have believed this except I unfortunately was involved in such a thing..one of the Pastors is also a qualified Doctor..and has been a professional but also Godly help to me. I do have connections in the family on the Police force & have got some advice there..in fact when I was a young 'worker' this same man tried to assault me in a car during 'special meeting rounds' how special was that! I guess it was another 'kick at the can' I had no memory of the first.. but to his surprise I was not the terrified, submissive young girl anymore though this again did terrify me again,as it was in a remote area that he did this, some kicking,clawing, screaming went on..anyway enough of this
This actually had nothing to do with my leaving the 'system'..as the first I had no memory of and the latter.. i made sure he was nowwhere near me..did I tell anyone..no he was 'so well thought of ' feared they would somehow blame me..had heard of others..in and out of 'it'
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Post by Edy logged out on Aug 20, 2007 20:33:12 GMT -5
How do you think a current member would react to Monica's plea for assistance. Of course GIT would try to have her stay within the fold, the religious belief he has embraced. You madam, are on the other side, you know far better than most of the need for people to have God and Jesus in their lives. Dont encourage people to loose their connection with God. Monica, if you leave, do not leave behind your love and connection to God. Listen to your heart, follow it, do not follow the advice of people who's testomany is clouded by harshness and blindness. Be responsible for your own actions, make up your own mind. Only two quick questions for you: How is it that I know far better than most of the need for people to have God and Jesus in their lives? Did I encourage people to loose their connection with God? Best! Edy
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Post by Hmmmmmm on Aug 20, 2007 21:30:25 GMT -5
to Hmmmmm..you said..'you left because we were not good enough to have fellowship with' ?? no it would not be 'you' as you are simply in bondage to, yes, a system as you call it..and in darkness,God is drawing her out and as she submits to His leading, He by His precious Holy Spirit will lead her into glorious light, into real living Truth..into a living relationship with Christ..not a system or a religion, or some doctine.. and Hmmmm, those of us who by the grace of God have been freed from the 'system' as that is all it is..man- made for sure, it's so called ministry based on some verses taken out of context this is so very common in 'cults'..and so many other fundamental Christian beliefs are either twisted or not understood at all.. the days of cover-up are long since over..and those that cling to this very false sinking ship..will sink with it..so get up, get out while there is still time and opportunity!!Thanks so much for your OPINION of my opinion. It is beyond me how you can judge me as clinging to a ministry based on versus out of context and sinking with the ship when you are not God and have no way of knowing the condition of my soul. If you would go back and read my post... you would not find anything about this being the only way, you must believe the ministry is the only ministry, that you must be bound to us or you are going to hell. Jesus is the answer, all is measured by him. All this earth has to offer one day must be left behind. On that great day, every eye will see Him as He is. No one will question what pertains to good or ill, it will be clear on that day. Hope we can all spend the rest of our days seeking to know Jesus better, and learning to love as he loved. It isn't about how I want to worship, or what I want to do in my life, it is all about what Jesus did for me. Praying that your journey will bring you to the love of your life.
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Post by ranman77007 on Aug 20, 2007 23:48:47 GMT -5
GIT, you need to GIT ahold of yerself !! who died and declared you her only friend? you need to check yourself before you wreck yourself...
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Post by ghost on Aug 21, 2007 2:28:59 GMT -5
Moving to New York ... Yes a good strategy Monica. Try viewing Woody Allen's films «Hannah and her sisters», «Deconstructing Harry» and «Mighty Aphrodite». Nice thoughts about the values of religion ... When you smile, the whole world smiles with you! - specially for you www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWXrak07t1c
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Post by Hmmmmmm on Aug 21, 2007 3:48:53 GMT -5
you can look up the definition a cult almost anywhere if you wish, maybe it will help..I wish it was not what it is..as I know many people there..my family etc and it is of great concen to me..You really need to get past this little problem of yours. a cult...? NO! Cult specialist have been ask to evaluate this fellowship many times and they always come up with the same thing... No it is not a cult.... someone is just filled with anger and hate trying to destroy a fellowship of people. So please find a better description to use. it is old, tired, and most of all, false. It paints you as a shallow hate filled person with an agenda. The label "bitter ex" comes from people like you. Your words, and message usually stirs hatred in return... not love or compassion. I hope your using this tired description isn't just to stir things up... if so... your post are even more meaningless.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2007 5:10:20 GMT -5
Of course the 2x2 fellowship is definately a cult by any honest definition of the word. Typical for cults is to be opposed to the use of the word about themselves-- because, to them, it only fits 'other people' in 'other groups' . Many other closed and extremist groupings in society also fit into the definition, and not all are bad.
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Post by mirror on Aug 21, 2007 6:28:47 GMT -5
People without distorting glasses can read the article Cult from wikipedia at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult and will see that by most definitions the 2x2s are certainly one. WAKE UP PEOPLE WAKE UP ...
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Post by LOL on Aug 21, 2007 7:16:58 GMT -5
WAKE UP PEOPLE WAKE UP ...We are part of the cult following Jesus. But then again, reading the description, I think we are further from the cult status than the rest of the world that calls themselves Christian.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2007 7:27:32 GMT -5
"Cult" is as good a word to me as it would have been to the foundation church. I am sure if such a word existed in Jesus' time it would have been used by those who hated the Truth. Mainstream churches bear no reproach. We are told to bear reproach in Jesus' name. From www.seedofabraham.net/nazarene.htmThe Three Places Where ‘Heretical Sect’ is a Proper Translation Acts 24:5: ‘For we have found this man a real pest and a fellow who stirs up dissension among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the heretical sect of the Nazarenes.’ Acts 24:14: ‘But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a heretical sect, I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is written in the Law and the Prophets’. Acts 28:22: ‘But we desire to hear from you what your views are. For concerning this heretical sect, it’s known to us that it is spoken against everywhere.’
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2007 8:27:44 GMT -5
People without distorting glasses can read the article Cult from wikipedia at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult and will see that by most definitions the 2x2s are certainly one. WAKE UP PEOPLE WAKE UP ... I agree -- Here is wikipedias definition and it certainly fits the 2x2s. Cult inexactly refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture considers outside the mainstream, with a notably positive or negative popular perception. In common or populist usage, "cult" has a positive connotation for groups of artistic and fashion devotees, but a negative connotation for new religious and extreme political movements. For this reason, most, if not all, religious and political groups that are called cults reject this label.
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Edgar Edgar on the wall
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Post by Edgar Edgar on the wall on Aug 21, 2007 9:50:42 GMT -5
Edgar,
Think very carefully as to what you write. Are you also in danger of creating a "cult"?
You are trying to lead a group of people; the waters have divided for you; you have beliefs and practices which are outside the mainstream; carefull, you may get exactly what you wish for.
Blindness in purpose is a failure of many. The failure to "see" the deciet of those who taped the call, blinds you of impartial vision.
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Post by sounds like on Aug 21, 2007 10:07:33 GMT -5
Edgar, Think very carefully as to what you write. Are you also in danger of creating a "cult"? You are trying to lead a group of people; the waters have divided for you; you have beliefs and practices which are outside the mainstream; carefull, you may get exactly what you wish for. Blindness in purpose is a failure of many. The failure to "see" the deciet of those who taped the call, blinds you of impartial vision. ...sounds just like 2x2ism, actually.
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