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Post by Monica on Aug 14, 2007 17:01:11 GMT -5
I've reached a point where I have decided that I am ready at heart to part with the way. I do enjoy going to the meetings from time to time, I do pray, and I do have faith.
However the way itself no longer holds the value it once did. My parents have meeting in their home and I am their only professing child. I know it would break their heart.
Do I tell the workers I am leaving? Do I tell my elders who preach every sunday(they are good people) that this is the only and they look down on anybody who isn't prfoessing? Or do I just stop coming?
What is the best way to go about it without causing too much hurt or too much of a stir?
Thanks for your help and insight.
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Post by _ on Aug 14, 2007 17:20:26 GMT -5
dont force it...
dont push yourself to do something that doesnt feel right...
I would recommend attending a local church sunday mornings, and gospel meetings in the afternoon...
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 14, 2007 17:32:57 GMT -5
If you stop going to meeting its going to cause a stir no matter what. I thought I could stay and "make a difference" but it got too stressful! So I just sent a letter to each in our sunday morning meeting and the workers in our field explaining why I was leaving. I got one reply from one of the workers which stated that she was sad to see us go but she understood that we were on our own "spiritual journey". What made it easier for me was that my elder and his wife left shortly after I did. Their exit made much more of a stir than when I left as the meeting had to be divided up etc. You have to do what feels right for you. It isn't easy making such a decision but you will have peace after you do. Remember, we are all here for you!
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3
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Post by 3 on Aug 14, 2007 17:35:31 GMT -5
Prior to my leaving the 2x2 church, I sat down with a couple of close relatives and told them my reasons for leaving. It certainly didn't cushion the blow but at least I felt I was honoring our relationship by being open with them. I certainly didn't want them hearing, via the grapevine, that I wasn't attending meetings anymore.
I also had the sister workers over for a visit and told them I needed to take a break. They were very kind, offered to have studies with me, etc. and urged me to keep praying, etc.
I sent a note to my elder & wife, telling them I was taking a sabbatical whilst (GIT's influence, folks!) I sorted things out in my heart and mind.
I wish there was an easy way to go about leaving.
Unlike fmofthe2x2's, I didn't begin attending any other church services for over 6 months. It took awhile for me to shed some of my indoctrination and, although I felt the 2x2 church was not the 'only' way, I still was afraid of false teachings in other churches.
I eventually mustered up enough courage and started visiting local churches.
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Post by ithascome on Aug 14, 2007 17:35:34 GMT -5
Don't part with the way! Don't exit Truth. John 14:6
You don't have to.
Just keep Jesus.
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Post by Paul Simon on Aug 14, 2007 17:44:46 GMT -5
50 Ways To Leave the Meetings
The problem is all inside your head She said to me The answer is easy if you Take it logically I’d like to help you in your struggle To be free There must be fifty ways To leave the Meetings
She said it’s really not my habit To intrude Furthermore, I hope my meaning Won’t be lost or misconstrued But I’ll repeat myself At the risk of being crude There must be fifty ways To leave the Meetings Fifty ways to leave the Meetings
CHORUS: You just slip out the back, Jack Make a new plan, Stan You don’t need to be coy, Roy Just get yourself free Hop on the bus, Gus You don’t need to discuss much Just drop off the key, Lee And get yourself free
She said it grieves me so To see you in such pain I wish there was something I could do To make you smile again I said I appreciate that And would you please explain About the fifty ways
She said why don’t we both Just sleep on it tonight And I believe in the morning You’ll begin to see the light And then she kissed me And I realized she probably was right There must be fifty ways To leave the Meetings Fifty ways to leave the Meetings
CHORUS
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Post by déjà vu on Aug 14, 2007 19:56:12 GMT -5
Ask yourself the question, where can I be more useful , in or out. pray, read some good Christian books for example Chuck Swindoll Charles Standley, Woodrow Kroll, John MacArthur Ch. Colson Max Lucado ect. Get yourself a good Study Bible. Read the Scripture for all it's worth. If some one challenges you , you can answer with authority
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Post by _ on Aug 14, 2007 20:05:53 GMT -5
useful for what and in what respect?
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elle
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Post by elle on Aug 14, 2007 21:42:42 GMT -5
talk to people whose advice you value (that includes some but probably not all posters on this board..!), then pray about it and get the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
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Post by freespirit on Aug 14, 2007 21:55:39 GMT -5
Well.... this is going to be weird because I'm pretty set on staying until they kick me out. (could be tomorrow, who knows. I'm surprised they haven't given me the boot already.)
But...my advice, which is not brilliant at all, is to pray about it--I mean really get quiet, go off alone somewhere and don't stop praying until you get a clear answer.
I don't know if a clean break where one explains themselves is better or a slower more gradual one, where one explains nothing. I'd probably pick b because that seems like it would sooth over relationships the best. But that might not be right for you.
Have you tried some other churches in your area? If not, please do--there is a lot of help out there--counseling and stuff: small groups, classes, etc. Or even think about going to a retreat center so you can have time to meditate and to heal.
And please remember... cling to God. He is your Rock. Pray. Pray hard. He'll give you the right direction, the right guidance. If He's leading you out... go, and don't even hesitate. If He's telling you to stay, then wait it out. His advice is never wrong. He knows what is best for you and what the future holds. And he knows how to sooth over hurt feelings and people who misunderstand.
Be kind to yourself. Sending you a cyberhug.
peace, freespirit
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Post by my experience on Aug 14, 2007 22:00:23 GMT -5
Monica, this is a big step. {{{{hhhuuuggg}}}}
When we left, a friend of ours said "I don't know whether to say 'Congratulations' or 'I'm sorry'. " And, this is what leaving is - joy and sorrow interwoven.
From my experience, I would recommend talking to the people with whom you feel a real connection, and ignore the rest. You should realize that they probably won't understand. Don't look for validation or approval or understanding from anyone and be okay with that. Accept them for who they are, and realize that they have as much right to continue to go to meetings as you have to leave them. Acceptance breeds acceptance.
Realize that when people do not want you to leave, they are loving you the best they know how. Silently send them love and stand in your own integrity.
Best of luck.
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Post by happy on Aug 14, 2007 22:25:03 GMT -5
Monica, I wish you the best and pray for your strength. Talk now. Talk and express yourself as much as you can while keeping your integrity and not debating. The more time goes on, the less people will wish to talk to you about spiritual things.
Pray, fall into scriptures and rely on God. Also, find out who your humans are that are really there for you to lean on. You'll need them! (Find out who your friends are...I love that song!) Hugs.
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Post by Ken coolidge on Aug 15, 2007 17:39:20 GMT -5
Monica Many have given you good advise. Wished we had the help that is here when we left some 15 years ago. Trust God he won't fail you. There will be some who will surprise you because they are not the same place on their spiritual journey. We wrote a letter to the workers after our last meeting and sent it to all we had known. Did not want any misunderstanding or falsehoods to arise. Workers instructed our friends to burn the letters and not read them. This made it easier to put their spin on the facts. Praying for your care and faith. Love in Christ Ken
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3
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Post by 3 on Aug 15, 2007 18:01:44 GMT -5
Ken:
I had a similar experience when I left the 2x2 church.
I met with the workers, letting them know of my struggle & decision. They were very kind.
Later, I found out that they had told the local friends that I didn't want anyone (of the friends) contacting me.
There is no way this was simply a miscommunication b/c we didn't even come near to discussing my friends & acquaintences within the circle of 'the friends'.
It's certainly nothing I'm angry or bitter about. Rather a bit sad. The workers reacted to my struggles in this way NOT b/c I had lost my faith, but b/c I had lost theirs...
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 15, 2007 18:30:52 GMT -5
Dear Monica,
1. I always assume these kinds of notes on such forums to be genuine, and I try to answer them when they appear. I always point out the same sorts of things to people who are considering the idea of "exiting" the Church.
2. My advice and counsel to you, sister, is that you should carefully consider what you are about to do, which is momentous: leave the Church of Christ; the Church of God, your Fold, and make yourself a wandering sheep without a Shepherd. All your life you have been surrounded by the prayers of the saints, by the proclaimation of the Gospel, and by the teaching of the elders of the Church. By making a decision to forsake this, you are about to alienate yourself from the entire body, possibly forever.
3. What would any of us be without the guidance of the Church? How would you have ever been brought to know Christ without the teaching and preaching Church? The Church exists to offer you comfort in times of trial, support when you are weak, and constant stability through all of life's transitions, from birth to death, always and forever upholding the One True God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent.
4. The Apostles counsel us to "try the spirits". I counsel you likewise. BEFORE forsaking the commonwealth of the new Israel, attend some church gatherings and services to see what they are all about. Do not attend only one. Do not attend only ten. Attend them often and regularly, and make sure you fit in a variety of such services. (This is what I did when questioning the authority of the Church in my intemperate youth.) Your eyes will surely be opened!
5. Above all, pray to the Lord Jesus for instruction. If you do not belong to Jesus, and were never predestinated to salvation from "before the foundation of the world", then you will leave us and perhaps leave Christ. If you are destined for damnation - and surely the capacity will be there without the Church to set boundaries and restrictions upon our behaviour - then this will be your portion. As God wills, so shall it be.
6. You write that the Church no longer holds the value it once did. What do you mean by this cryptic statement? I suspect it means you have placed too much emphasis on the Church, without realising what the Church promotes: Jesus Christ, and Him Only. Listen to the preaching of the Servants of the Most High God!
7. Submit yourself to the authorities. In this order of authority so you must submit: Firstly to God; to Christ; and to the Holy Ghost (for these Three are One); next to the Bible which is the word of God; after that, to the Ministers who are sent by God; then the Elders of the churches anointed by God; and your brothers and sisters called and sanctified by God - IN THAT ORDER, so you must submit! And you will surely be set on the right path again.
8. Your departure will cause much pain and grief!
The Church in your part will mourn for the loss of a daughter; a sister; and a friend. It will be as if you have returned to the dead. When you were baptised - in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost - the Church recieved you with open arms as one risen from the dead. By leaving, you will reverse that process. The tomb will be full again. The tomb stone will roll thunderously back to its position. And the seal of the world will be placed securely over the grave again.
9. Why? Monica, why?
Peace.
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Post by _ on Aug 15, 2007 18:58:49 GMT -5
leave the Church of Christ; the Church of God, your Fold, and make yourself a wandering sheep without a Shepherd. Do you acknowledge the distinct difference between leaving the Friends and Worker's fellowship and leaving the invisible church of believers, the body of Christ? Which body... The body of the Friends and Worker's fellowship or the body of Christ? Did you not want to leave the Friends and Worker's fellowship a few years back? Perhaps you understand the reason why...
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Post by ithascome on Aug 15, 2007 21:17:13 GMT -5
Do you really feel this is what happens to Jesus' sheep? If they get lost... what does the good shepherd do? Jesus gave his life for his sheep. Monica picture Jesus with His open arms..... that was for you.... he loves you. GIT sometimes I wonder how an educated person such as yourself can be so obtuse.
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savedbyblood
Junior Member
Eventually we'll figure it all out!
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Post by savedbyblood on Aug 15, 2007 23:16:18 GMT -5
Monica wrote: "I've reached a point where I have decided that I am ready at heart to part with the way. I do enjoy going to the meetings from time to time, I do pray, and I do have faith. However the way itself no longer holds the value it once did. My parents have meeting in their home and I am their only professing child. I know it would break their heart."
Ask yourself this one question before you make your final choice: Does the Way really no longer hold value to you or do you no longer value the way. This answer is paramount in your decision.
rick wrote: "Ask yourself the question, where can I be more useful , in or out?"
This is the second most important consideration. Where do you feel Christ is leading you? Do you imagine that you might help others in the Way overcome some of the matters concerning such things as arbitraty rules and place in the Church based on status rather than your relationship with Christ? You might have been called to work quietly within the Truth to foster a better understanding of our relationship with Christ than most in the Truth will hear of from the standard 2by2 doctrine.
Are you willing to sacrifice the friends and relationships you have amongst the friends? One of the sad teachings in the Truth is that we must have no contact with those who have been excommunicated or have left on their own. Leaving this Church may not make you a sinner any more than you are by being here but you might be very lonely.
freespirit wrote: "Well.... this is going to be weird because I'm pretty set on staying until they kick me out."
This is my prediciment right now. I do not know the particulars of freespirit but mine are steeped in being denied Christian support by the Workers. They are human. They can make mistakes as we all can. They just sometimes (usually, always?) never admit it and turn the problem back to you. This has no effect on my Lord's sacrifice for my soul and from my visits to other Churches I have seen some of the same infighting in dealing with money matters and new buildings, place of honor, etc.
Someday the Workers will kick me out for staying with the teachings of the Lord Jesus in the New Testement as opposed to the Ministry.
ithascome wrote: "Do you really feel this is what happens to Jesus' sheep? If they get lost... what does the good shepherd do? Jesus gave his life for his sheep."
Jesus also told the parable of the Shepherd who left the 99 to seek the one. This is the mark of a True Shepherd. This is not necessarily so with some of the Workers. They will allow the one or two or three to stay lost rather than take the steps needed to find and save them. This attempt at saving the Lost Sheep could end in failure or embarassment to the Workers and we would not want that now, would we?
gloryintruth wrote: "My advice and counsel to you, sister, is that you should carefully consider what you are about to do, which is momentous: leave the Church of Christ; the Church of God, your Fold, and make yourself a wandering sheep without a Shepherd. All your life you have been surrounded by the prayers of the saints, by the proclaimation of the Gospel, and by the teaching of the elders of the Church. By making a decision to forsake this, you are about to alienate yourself from the entire body, possibly forever."
This is the same feeling that I have about leaving. When and if the time comes to kick me out I will be devistated. I have prepared myself for the worst but It will be much more than I have imagined. I have no desire to leave the truth but I do see flaws in the leadership when they will neglect a family in crisis (my own) and then turn your own words against you in desperation to put you into a place so they may dismiss your request for Spiritual help.
"What would any of us be without the guidance of the Church? How would you have ever been brought to know Christ without the teaching and preaching Church? The Church exists to offer you comfort in times of trial, support when you are weak, and constant stability through all of life's transitions, from birth to death, always and forever upholding the One True God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent.What would any of us be without the guidance of the Church? How would you have ever been brought to know Christ without the teaching and preaching Church? The Church exists to offer you comfort in times of trial, support when you are weak, and constant stability through all of life's transitions, from birth to death, always and forever upholding the One True God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent."
I had the guidance of the Church, from my Elder to other local Elders and Elders Wives trying to help my wife and me. The Workers ordered them to not get involved and a problem that was based in misunderstanding has led to seperation and probably divorce and fighting over dividing a child between us.
The Church has been quietly supportive because I'm told that we are being prayed for often. Some have even offered a shoulder to lean on. The Workers, on the other hand have not been supportive in any way. They pray for us but in the same breath accuse based on rumor and do not even make an attempt at smoothing the hurt THEY have caused. The Workers have told me that this is "God's Will." They cannot understand that God would not will for something to happen that goes directly against His Teachings through Jesus Christ. Just a simple way for them to ignore those who need Spiritual guidance.
"Submit yourself to the authorities. In this order of authority so you must submit: Firstly to God; to Christ; and to the Holy Ghost (for these Three are One); next to the Bible which is the word of God; after that, to the Ministers who are sent by God; then the Elders of the churches anointed by God; and your brothers and sisters called and sanctified by God - IN THAT ORDER, so you must submit! And you will surely be set on the right path again."
Again, I must caution on on relying on the Ministers. They are truly Faithful Servants but as all humans, can become steeped in tradition and misinformation. As the Overseer speaks, all Workers will follow. There is no place for action based on personal relationships with Christ in the Ministry. This must be taken with a grain of salt and and realized that even they can be capable of mistakes.
Rely only on Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.
Jesus Christ said in Matthew 24:24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
2 Timothy 3:1: This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2: For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3: Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4: Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6: For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7: Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
This does not include or exclude the Workers.
I'm on the upper half of middle age yet I still cry Tears of Joy whenever I see new people stand to their feet proclaiming their Love for Christ and their choice to follow Him in this Way. I would never knowingly do anything against this Way or Jesus Christ my Savior but I do feel that someone must stand for what is right and true in the Truth and this is where I am today.
Monica, please don't leave for the sake of leaving. Please don't leave for a point of contention. If you must leave then please, please make sure that you are doing it for yourself and not to cause any problems with others or to prove a point.
My parents have professed for nearly 50 years. My dad is an Elder. If I for some reason left on my own this would be devistating to them and since my daughter and me live in part of their house there is the likelyhood of my dad loosing his meeting unless I move out. (It has happened before.) On the other hand, they both know of what has transpired between the Overseer and his Workers and myself and respect my decision to stand strong and face them in their unwavering choice to not interceed on the behalf of my family and cut all of us off from the teachings and edification available in Jesus Christ. I will keep the TMB appraised of my plight and also lend an eye (ear?) to all who may benifit from my many experiences. 2by2 or ex, we should all be here to help each other as best we can if we claim the name of Jesus Christ.
Please let us know your decision and most of this board will be here to support you in whatever it is.
May you find peace in your struggle.
Peace in Him, SBB
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Post by frIGhTening on Aug 15, 2007 23:40:33 GMT -5
Dear Monica,1. I always assume these kinds of notes on such forums to be genuine, and I try to answer them when they appear. I always point out the same sorts of things to people who are considering the idea of "exiting" the Church. 2. My advice and counsel to you, sister, is that you should carefully consider what you are about to do, which is momentous: leave the Church of Christ; the Church of God, your Fold, and make yourself a wandering sheep without a Shepherd. All your life you have been surrounded by the prayers of the saints, by the proclaimation of the Gospel, and by the teaching of the elders of the Church. By making a decision to forsake this, you are about to alienate yourself from the entire body, possibly forever. 3. What would any of us be without the guidance of the Church? How would you have ever been brought to know Christ without the teaching and preaching Church? The Church exists to offer you comfort in times of trial, support when you are weak, and constant stability through all of life's transitions, from birth to death, always and forever upholding the One True God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. 4. The Apostles counsel us to "try the spirits". I counsel you likewise. BEFORE forsaking the commonwealth of the new Israel, attend some church gatherings and services to see what they are all about. Do not attend only one. Do not attend only ten. Attend them often and regularly, and make sure you fit in a variety of such services. (This is what I did when questioning the authority of the Church in my intemperate youth.) Your eyes will surely be opened! 5. Above all, pray to the Lord Jesus for instruction. If you do not belong to Jesus, and were never predestinated to salvation from "before the foundation of the world", then you will leave us and perhaps leave Christ. If you are destined for damnation - and surely the capacity will be there without the Church to set boundaries and restrictions upon our behaviour - then this will be your portion. As God wills, so shall it be. 6. You write that the Church no longer holds the value it once did. What do you mean by this cryptic statement? I suspect it means you have placed too much emphasis on the Church, without realising what the Church promotes: Jesus Christ, and Him Only. Listen to the preaching of the Servants of the Most High God! 7. Submit yourself to the authorities. In this order of authority so you must submit: Firstly to God; to Christ; and to the Holy Ghost (for these Three are One); next to the Bible which is the word of God; after that, to the Ministers who are sent by God; then the Elders of the churches anointed by God; and your brothers and sisters called and sanctified by God - IN THAT ORDER, so you must submit! And you will surely be set on the right path again. 8. Your departure will cause much pain and grief! The Church in your part will mourn for the loss of a daughter; a sister; and a friend. It will be as if you have returned to the dead. When you were baptised - in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost - the Church recieved you with open arms as one risen from the dead. By leaving, you will reverse that process. The tomb will be full again. The tomb stone will roll thunderously back to its position. And the seal of the world will be placed securely over the grave again. 9. Why? Monica, why? Peace. There is blasphemy here. Look for it.
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Post by ithascome on Aug 15, 2007 23:46:59 GMT -5
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Post by Just on Aug 16, 2007 0:01:39 GMT -5
Dear Monica,1. I always assume these kinds of notes on such forums to be genuine, and I try to answer them when they appear. I always point out the same sorts of things to people who are considering the idea of "exiting" the Church. 2. My advice and counsel to you, sister, is that you should carefully consider what you are about to do, which is momentous: leave the Church of Christ; the Church of God, your Fold, and make yourself a wandering sheep without a Shepherd. All your life you have been surrounded by the prayers of the saints, by the proclaimation of the Gospel, and by the teaching of the elders of the Church. By making a decision to forsake this, you are about to alienate yourself from the entire body, possibly forever. 3. What would any of us be without the guidance of the Church? How would you have ever been brought to know Christ without the teaching and preaching Church? The Church exists to offer you comfort in times of trial, support when you are weak, and constant stability through all of life's transitions, from birth to death, always and forever upholding the One True God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. 4. The Apostles counsel us to "try the spirits". I counsel you likewise. BEFORE forsaking the commonwealth of the new Israel, attend some church gatherings and services to see what they are all about. Do not attend only one. Do not attend only ten. Attend them often and regularly, and make sure you fit in a variety of such services. (This is what I did when questioning the authority of the Church in my intemperate youth.) Your eyes will surely be opened! 5. Above all, pray to the Lord Jesus for instruction. If you do not belong to Jesus, and were never predestinated to salvation from "before the foundation of the world", then you will leave us and perhaps leave Christ. If you are destined for damnation - and surely the capacity will be there without the Church to set boundaries and restrictions upon our behaviour - then this will be your portion. As God wills, so shall it be. 6. You write that the Church no longer holds the value it once did. What do you mean by this cryptic statement? I suspect it means you have placed too much emphasis on the Church, without realising what the Church promotes: Jesus Christ, and Him Only. Listen to the preaching of the Servants of the Most High God! 7. Submit yourself to the authorities. In this order of authority so you must submit: Firstly to God; to Christ; and to the Holy Ghost (for these Three are One); next to the Bible which is the word of God; after that, to the Ministers who are sent by God; then the Elders of the churches anointed by God; and your brothers and sisters called and sanctified by God - IN THAT ORDER, so you must submit! And you will surely be set on the right path again. 8. Your departure will cause much pain and grief! The Church in your part will mourn for the loss of a daughter; a sister; and a friend. It will be as if you have returned to the dead. When you were baptised - in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost - the Church recieved you with open arms as one risen from the dead. By leaving, you will reverse that process. The tomb will be full again. The tomb stone will roll thunderously back to its position. And the seal of the world will be placed securely over the grave again. 9. Why? Monica, why? Peace. Plain ignorance in your responses. THE FATHER GAVE US TO JESUS NOT THE 2X2--AND THAT INCLUDES MONICA.
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this just proves it
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Post by this just proves it on Aug 16, 2007 0:07:45 GMT -5
In GIT's mind, leaving 2x2ism IS the same as leaving Jesus.
In GIT's mind, leaving 2x2ism IS the same as leaving God.
In GIT's mind, leaving 2x2ism IS the same as dooming yourself to a lost eternity.
In GIT's mind, leaving 2x2ism IS the same as....
well, you get the point. No need to hammer it into your skull as does GIT.
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Post by Yes on Aug 16, 2007 0:08:09 GMT -5
Dear Monica,1. I always assume these kinds of notes on such forums to be genuine, and I try to answer them when they appear. I always point out the same sorts of things to people who are considering the idea of "exiting" the Church. 2. My advice and counsel to you, sister, is that you should carefully consider what you are about to do, which is momentous: leave the Church of Christ; the Church of God, your Fold, and make yourself a wandering sheep without a Shepherd. All your life you have been surrounded by the prayers of the saints, by the proclaimation of the Gospel, and by the teaching of the elders of the Church. By making a decision to forsake this, you are about to alienate yourself from the entire body, possibly forever. 3. What would any of us be without the guidance of the Church? How would you have ever been brought to know Christ without the teaching and preaching Church? The Church exists to offer you comfort in times of trial, support when you are weak, and constant stability through all of life's transitions, from birth to death, always and forever upholding the One True God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. 4. The Apostles counsel us to "try the spirits". I counsel you likewise. BEFORE forsaking the commonwealth of the new Israel, attend some church gatherings and services to see what they are all about. Do not attend only one. Do not attend only ten. Attend them often and regularly, and make sure you fit in a variety of such services. (This is what I did when questioning the authority of the Church in my intemperate youth.) Your eyes will surely be opened! 5. Above all, pray to the Lord Jesus for instruction. If you do not belong to Jesus, and were never predestinated to salvation from "before the foundation of the world", then you will leave us and perhaps leave Christ. If you are destined for damnation - and surely the capacity will be there without the Church to set boundaries and restrictions upon our behaviour - then this will be your portion. As God wills, so shall it be. 6. You write that the Church no longer holds the value it once did. What do you mean by this cryptic statement? I suspect it means you have placed too much emphasis on the Church, without realising what the Church promotes: Jesus Christ, and Him Only. Listen to the preaching of the Servants of the Most High God! 7. Submit yourself to the authorities. In this order of authority so you must submit: Firstly to God; to Christ; and to the Holy Ghost (for these Three are One); next to the Bible which is the word of God; after that, to the Ministers who are sent by God; then the Elders of the churches anointed by God; and your brothers and sisters called and sanctified by God - IN THAT ORDER, so you must submit! And you will surely be set on the right path again. 8. Your departure will cause much pain and grief! The Church in your part will mourn for the loss of a daughter; a sister; and a friend. It will be as if you have returned to the dead. When you were baptised - in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost - the Church recieved you with open arms as one risen from the dead. By leaving, you will reverse that process. The tomb will be full again. The tomb stone will roll thunderously back to its position. And the seal of the world will be placed securely over the grave again. 9. Why? Monica, why? Peace. There is blasphemy here. Look for it. Yes out of ignorance that is what the 2x2s teach. Blasphemy against the HOLY SPIRIT. Over and over again they do it.
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Post by msconfig on Aug 16, 2007 9:26:23 GMT -5
I've reached a point where I have decided that I am ready at heart to part with the way. I do enjoy going to the meetings from time to time, I do pray, and I do have faith. However the way itself no longer holds the value it once did. My parents have meeting in their home and I am their only professing child. I know it would break their heart. Do I tell the workers I am leaving? Do I tell my elders who preach every sunday(they are good people) that this is the only and they look down on anybody who isn't prfoessing? Or do I just stop coming? What is the best way to go about it without causing too much hurt or too much of a stir? Thanks for your help and insight. It's got to be tough talking to brainwashed folks if that is the case?but there sure is no harm in leaving a group that surely is not Gods only way!
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Post by Sylvestra on Aug 16, 2007 12:54:41 GMT -5
Git's post should be "tacked" to the top of the Board to be as close to a list of F & W beliefs (written by a current 2x2) as I've ever read here!!!! It is party line to a "T".
Git's letter has made me so sad for people like Monica and others who are at the crossroads - which path to take. Git's letter is loaded with guilt-producing words and is described quite well in the book "Toxic Faith", and the many websites about Spiritual abuse and cult recovery! Which, Monica, I hope you will spend some time reading!
Monica, choose the LORD whose arms are ALWAYS open to you with love and He does not offer guilt for going to one Christian church over another! Let Him encircle you and engulf you until you are full of Him and not full of guilt based on the beliefs of the F & W Git has offered you here! He does not believe you are leaving HIM when you no longer fellowship with the F & W!
Git is correct that you may lose some friends and have family members mad a you. You will also be misrepresented as to why you left with no way to defend yourself, whether you write and exit letter or not. These things are a very sad testimony of the F & W - but it is a fact that many of us have experienced.
I found a great deal of encouragement in reading "Reflections" and its sequel - the testimonies of those who left the F & W and tells of their experiences and feelings of having truly found grace and a relationship with Christ after getting out from under the crushing "traditions of men" and truly finding an easy yoke and a light burden.
How I wish you and I could have a cup of tea together today! I hope you will keep writing here so we can get better acquainted with you!
Love in Him, Edy
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Post by Matt on Aug 16, 2007 14:16:33 GMT -5
Monica
When one has reached the point that you have, you know in your heart it is time to leave. When the night ends it is fruitless to battle against the dawn. The good news is that it appears that that inexplicable bind that the 2x2 church has upon us has been broken and you can begin to live again. Take comfort in the knowledge that the biggest battle has been won and that the only challenge left is to determine how rather than when.
Like most things in life there are options. If only it was so simple just to grab a bottle of brandy, disappear into the sunset on a horse and move on. However the small matter of professing parents and the not inconsiderable inconvenience of having a meeting in your home will require you to display a little more sensitivity than leaving the local library. One always has to be aware that our parents love us and want only what is best for us but also that those with a status that warrants a meeting in the home will take any decision by their offspring to leave personally and interpret it as a sign that they themselves have failed before God and are no longer worthy. I know - I was in a similar position as the only child in the family foolish enough to fall for the 2x2 trick and therefore my parents also had to run the gauntlet, meeting in the home et al.
In my opinion you have a duty to tell your parents and that’s all. You can be sure that when the dust has finally settled they will swiftly pass the message to the workers who will instigate Operation Iscariot before lighting the funeral pyre. I wouldn’t bother about the letter stuff. No matter what you write you’ll probably regret something you said with the passage of time. And I wouldn’t tell the workers personally. It’s your life and you’re not obliged to give any reason and anyway what sort of conversation would you possible have with these guys anyway? These guys won't speak your language anymore. As regards praying to God for guidance, well, God doesn’t give a hoot whether you’re a 2x2 or not anyway.
So I guess the best approach is that you pluck up the courage at an opportune moment to break the news to your dear old mother in the flesh - preferably with your father in the room. If you have the two of them together you double the chances of at least one understanding your position. You may not believe it but if you rub away that 2x2 gloss there’s a real chance there haven’t been times when your father didn’t wish he had the courage to run away from the circus too. Show me a man that hasn’t. Life isn’t much of a picnic for a bloke in the 2x2s. Just make sure you have some justifiable reason well rehearsed in your mind, nothing that can be put down to a growing phase but not something that’ll have your father reaching for the poteen either.
Oh and do be aware that the 2x2 hierarchy, like the military, do not cope easily with acts of desertion and are likely therefore to adopt a defensive position in which scurrilous gossip will be entered into for the purposes of ensuring you are evermore counted in with the unwilling majority and the great unwashed. If you’re lucky enough your mother will come out fighting and not let the bastards grind your reputation down. I know mine did. Bless her!
Matt
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 16, 2007 19:04:09 GMT -5
Dear Monica (again!),
In reply to your question there have been many posts made in this thread, mostly by people who are not in the Church - as you and I are - and who do not understand our situation. They have given you much advice. Some of it is undeniably good. But much of it is dangerous.
You have been advised to read the words of men. To find books authored by fallible theologians and take THEIR teachings onboard as guidance for life. You have been advised even about the mind of God! "God does not care about what church you belong to", you have been told, "He will accept you no matter what you do."
Consider this: this advice is aimed at getting you out of the Church bodily without scant regard for your eternal soul. As the only Friend who has written to you, let me tell you this: my greatest desire is that you should stay within the Church where you will be guided, nourished, and filled by the Lord Jesus.
Yet, my advice to you is not intended to, or calculated to keep you in the Church if this is not where you want to be. But I do think it is VITAL that YOU explore the issue carefully first before you leave so that you go out on the basis of knowledge of that which you are going out to.
Dear sister! Don't read the words of men to make this decision. Read the words of God! This is what the Church upholds and encourages - open the Holy Bible and read, pray, and pray again over those sacred words. God will lead, guide and strengthen you according to his purpose and will if you truly do this in the spirit of wanting to glorify God with your life.
If, of course, you are apathetic about God, then your leaving will be merely a purging of the branch; you will be pruned from the vine as an unfruitful bough. But if you are zealous for God, then he will give you an unequivocal answer through the Holy Spirit, and the words and prayers of the saints.
Outside of the order of the Church you will find a barrage of ideas, theologies, religions, denominations and men and women hungry for your soul and your money. It will be confusing. And you will cry out in painful longing for the discipline, consistency, and security of the Church - who is your mother; your family; your teacher who has nourished you with preaching all your life.
All your life you have been accustomed to life WITHIN the Church. You have no idea of the turmoil, the torment and the existential emptiness of being OUTSIDE of the Church. You will be subjected to traditions devised by men. You will be alienated from the sacraments of Communion according to Jesus' example, blessed by the elders of the Church. Your baptism will be declared void by the Church - for if your baptism was true to Christ, you would not have left his people.
There are those on this forum who hate Christ's family; his Church. They despise the Servants of the Most High God, and they exalt in unbiblical ways. Will you listen to them? Rather I urge you to open your ears and hear God! Listen! Listen to the prayers of God's Church; that is where our doctrine is found.
For, "Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth to everlasting life, and few there be that find it. But wide s the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to everlasting destruction - and many there be that go in thereat!"
Jesus lived for you. He died for you. And he now says to you, "Come unto me, and I will give you rest." He now says to you, "I have loved you - wherein hast thou loved me?" Will you abandon the Good Shepherd for the ways which are not the ways of God?
I urge you: turn to God. Pray this prayer (as I do every Sunday) when you partake in the holiest moment of worship - the partaking of the Holy Communion; the New Passover; the Holy Supper of the Lord on Sunday Morning:
I am not worthy to recieve you, Lord, but only say the word and I shall be healed. Remove from me my sins and trespasses. Take from me my deficiences and wretchedness. And allow me to see the light of your truth in clarity.
With the passion of the whole Church so I write, May you make the right choice!
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Post by TMS on Aug 16, 2007 19:30:01 GMT -5
Dear Monica,
I recommend just stop going to meeting and thats it. Simple. Why make it complicated?
I quit going to meetings over a few months period, then I just stopped going all together. I did not write any letters to workers or friends explaining my reasons. I was not close to any workers, and the friends I had in the truth religion knew I did not go because I was not at the meetings. Some of my girlfriends stayed friend with me, but not all of them. Oh well. I was too busy working to notice. It did hurt my feelings but I was too busy working and living my life to worry.
The biggest hardship was my parents were still professing, so I felt like I let them down, but 2 yrs after I quit meetings, I got a random email from my mother who said she was leaving meetings after 25 yrs because she was "tired" and she said she still believed in God and Jesus, but was no longer going to go to meetings because she was "tired" and worn out. So they both quit goiong and have not returned in five yrs.
I eventually found a church I liked about 5 yrs or so after I quit going to meetings. It took a while to get used to idea that it was OK to have real music in church, that it was OK not to have sister workers but a pastor who was married with children and a wife. That was OK to look like a normal young adult and not wear a bun, etc.
So I suggest to just stop goiong. Why write letters? You are not responsible to anyone but GOD. He would not require you to write a letter to a relgion that is off track. I dont think so.
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