|
Post by ranman77007 on Aug 17, 2007 15:11:07 GMT -5
one more time-
NOBODY here is exiting truth.
|
|
now an ex Praise God
Guest
|
Post by now an ex Praise God on Aug 17, 2007 18:49:45 GMT -5
To Monica: the reason you want to leave is because God is drawing you out..listen to him..you are not leaving 'truth' you will be leaving a 'system' a 'religion'...what you need is truth..there are and always have been good bible teaching churches...go..actually run..they are out there...not telling you to embrace a 'building' or a doctrine or a creed but the living Christ.. I had to search..but oh my was it worth it...God's precious Holy Spirit will guide you, direct you, lead you to Christ...spend time in prayer...He will hear..as my Pastor said..' strangely God often brings us to a point of despair of 'religion' before we are ready to see beyond it to the real, living Christ. The evidence of the Holy Spirit drawing a person to Christ is that he gives us a hunger for God, and recognition of Him when we encounter Him"...so please don't listen to glory in truth or whatever...is he is talking about the system it is not 'truth'..he is one it's captives...and in darkness.
so I urge you..run don't walk...don't be afraid to go to a Church..try a Community Church...or a good Evangelical Church..one whose focus is on the community as well as world missions..and preaches/teaches solid Bible Truth...which does not exist in the 'system'...in fact it is a cult go to Preach the word..just type that in...listen to Pastor David Legge..sermon on the cooneyites 2 by 2's..go to topical...under 'c' for cults..the cooneyites/2 by2's are included there..with the JW'S..Mormons etc.. it will help you tremendously...also you can go to reachouttrust.org you can see info on them their..you can email Doug Harris there right on the website..he can help you also will be praying for you...
|
|
|
Post by ithascome on Aug 17, 2007 22:14:43 GMT -5
Zorro wrote something that hit home with me...
One of the saddest things is when someone leaves without clearly working through the weightier issues and finds themselves in what I call the "blackhole" - not believing the 2x2s are right, but still believing everything "outside" is false. Pure misery, IMO.
I think for the longest time I was in that blackhole... I think Scott mentioned that he was there also... thought he was doomed to hell..... There is nothing so awful as that feeling. I am so glad that God pulled me out of it. I can see that Scott is happy also.
Monica you have been given a lot to read here... it is a great deal to digest... all I can say is take your time... you can jump out of the frying pan into the fire... so be careful. There are some churches out there that are much worse than the 2x2 group.
|
|
|
Post by juliette on Aug 17, 2007 22:53:46 GMT -5
Monica:
I would echo what Evy, Matt and TMS have written, and add that should you leave the 2x2 religion, don't be surprised if no one within the group except your family calls to check on your or contacts you in any way. And don't be surprised when you meet wonderful people from "worldly churches" who truly care for you and your soul.
The only thing I agree with in GIT's posts is that you should go to God alone for guidance. He will lead you in the right way; cast your fear on Him. That said, there are many wise people on this board who can provide support.
I couldn't help but notice a few sentences in one of GIT's posts:
"All your life you have been accustomed to life WITHIN the Church. You have no idea of the turmoil, the torment and the existential emptiness of being OUTSIDE of the Church. You will be subjected to traditions devised by men."
Since leaving the 2x2 religion, I feel blessedly free from the traditions devised by man, and from the emptiness of form without substance. I have found wonderful Christian friends who show true Christlike love for me. The fact that you've lived all of your life within this religion does not mean anything, except that you don't yet know the wonders of God's blessings to be found as you outside of the confines of the world devised for you by this religion. Perfect love casts out fear - that is God's promise! Imagine a service based not on fear and self-doubt and the fear of men, but on God's great love and grace.
I would also advise against writing letters and calling people except for telling your immediate family. There is nothing to be gained.
Thinking of you and praying for God's guidance for you! Juli
|
|
|
Post by Hmmmmmm on Aug 18, 2007 0:35:30 GMT -5
I don't understand the big deal about the friends and workers not calling those who leave.....
so many as even some in this thread say... leave me alone..... take me off of your list... so if we call and you don't want us to... how are we suppose to know if you want to be called or not...
remember... you are the one that left and decided we were not good enough to have fellowship with.
IMO - This seems such a lame excuse for justifying your dislike or guilt about leaving. I agree with Zorro. If you are leaving because you think we are serving a system or putting our faith in man... you are leaving because you your self have put your faith in the wrong thing. We have our faith in Jesus and only Jesus. Those who become disenchanted with whatever do so because they were putting their faith in that and found it was wrong. You need to do some deep soul searching and make sure you understand what is right and wrong and why.
I wish you the best in your search and journey.
|
|
now an ex Praise God
Guest
|
Post by now an ex Praise God on Aug 18, 2007 13:41:24 GMT -5
to Hmmmmm..you said..'you left because we were not good enough to have fellowship with' ?? no it would not be 'you' as you are simply in bondage to, yes, a system as you call it..and in darkness, God is drawing her out and as she submits to His leading, He by His precious Holy Spirit will lead her into glorious light, into real living Truth..into a living relationship with Christ..not a system or a religion, or some doctine.. and Hmmmm, those of us who by the grace of God have been freed from the 'system' as that is all it is..man- made for sure, it's so called ministry based on some verses taken out of context this is so very common in 'cults'..and so many other fundamental Christian beliefs are either twisted or not understood at all.. the days of cover-up are long since over..and those that cling to this very false sinking ship..will sink with it..so get up, get out while there is still time and opportunity!!
|
|
|
Post by gloryintruth on Aug 19, 2007 4:29:06 GMT -5
to Hmmmmm..you said..'you left because we were not good enough to have fellowship with' ?? no it would not be 'you' as you are simply in bondage to, yes, a system as you call it..and in darkness,This is where it becomes dangerous. Confusing an opinion for a fact is not helpful for anyone - I don't feel in "bondage" to a system and I know I'm certainly not in darkness. By implication (though not direct implication), what you are saying is that those in the Fellowship are going to Hell; they are lost; their worship and faith is totally in vain. When the Friends - like me - make these sorts of statements, we're exclusivist, hard-liners, following party-approved opinion, denying the Holy Spirit's work in the lives of others; blasphemers. Yet when the shoe is placed on the other foot it seems to be par for the course. It's fine to deny the work of the Holy Spirit among the Friends, to make sweeping generalisations about the spiritual condition of the entire Church, just so long as it does not work the other way. I cannot be the only one who loves being the Fellowship. I'm sure I'm not the only one who regards my life in the Fellowship as a freedom from so much unnecessary claptrap; from the great divisions over minutia that characterise so much of the Protestant movement. For me, it is wonderful to be professing! God is drawing her out and as she submits to His leadingYou are assuming that God is the prime mover, and that God only ever leads people out of the Fellowship, but never in. Isn't this simply a mimmicking of the exclusivistic position of us Friends? He by His precious Holy Spirit will lead her into glorious light, into real living Truth..into a living relationship with Christ..not a system or a religion, or some doctine..Here's where I would like to see more discussion - regarding this issue of the "system". Because I hear the use of this word in regard to the Fellowship so often on this forum, yet admittedly, the Fellowship comprises less organisational machinery than any denominational church you could care to name. If there is a systematic organisational machine in existence within the Fellowship, I would be truly interested in know its apparatus. and Hmmmm, those of us who by the grace of God have been freed from the 'system' as that is all it is..man- made for sure,As all denominational churches are, for sure. it's so called ministry based on some verses taken out of contextHow are these verses taken "out of context"? Do you know what "out of context" means? I think the reading of the verses in mention are done very well within their own context - there is no extra-contextual information admitted - it is the interpretation of those verses over which exes wrangle. this is so very common in 'cults'..and so many other fundamental Christian beliefs are either twisted or not understood at all..Considering no denomination holds the same beliefs as any other denomination, one must conclude that all religion is a manifestation of a cult. I have said this before, and I'll say it again: referring to the Fellowship as a cult strips you of all credibility in my eyes on this forum, not only because it's the cheap-and-easy way out (it is an emotive word), but also because there is no universally accepted definition of a cult. Whose interpretation are you using? And why is that definition any better than another? When people start to define a "cult" with mountainous lists of points, one quickly realises that such a definition attacks many of the principles on which Christianity stands. I therefore believe that, in most respects, the word "cult" is simply synonomous with "religion". It just happens to be used by certain people in relation to "religions-we-object-to". the days of cover-up are long since over..and those that cling to this very false sinking ship..will sink with it..so get up, get out while there is still time and opportunity!!I would hardly describe the Fellowship as a "sinking ship". The numbers of gospel meeting congregants in my field are so great that the city's largest community hall can only just be made to accomodate them (there must be at least 300 people in attendance each meeting, and this is a conversative estimate - not that numbers mean a thing against the spiritual quality of the worshippers). It would comprise my city's LARGEST congregation by a long chalk. I also reject that there has been any systematic "cover-up" of facts pertaining to the Fellowship; perhaps widespread ignorance, but ignorance is not deception. Furthermore, the broadcast of this knowledge is doing the Fellowship good, I believe, because it is blowing out the dead wood, those who have never understood what the Fellowship is all about; those too hooked up on outward manifestations of Faith. Perhaps it is better for such folk to leave.
|
|
|
Post by mirror on Aug 19, 2007 6:54:51 GMT -5
I also reject that there has been any systematic "cover-up" of facts pertaining to the Fellowship; perhaps widespread ignorance, but ignorance is not deception. Furthermore, the broadcast of this knowledge is doing the Fellowship good, I believe, because it is blowing out the dead wood, those who have never understood what the Fellowship is all about; those too hooked up on outward manifestations of Faith. Perhaps it is better for such folk to leave. Cover-up of the origins. Cover-up of the financing through trust funds. Cover-up of numerous sexual scandals. Cover-up of numerous homosexual relationships. Cover-up of ex-communications and dictatorial-style management. ... if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
|
|
|
Post by gloryintruth on Aug 19, 2007 7:04:07 GMT -5
Cover-up of the origins. Cover-up of the financing through trust funds. Cover-up of numerous sexual scandals. Cover-up of numerous homosexual relationships. Cover-up of ex-communications and dictatorial-style management.
An accusation is easy to make. Have you any evidence?
|
|
|
Post by mirror on Aug 19, 2007 7:14:51 GMT -5
Cover-up of the origins. Cover-up of the financing through trust funds. Cover-up of numerous sexual scandals. Cover-up of numerous homosexual relationships. Cover-up of ex-communications and dictatorial-style management.An accusation is easy to make. Have you any evidence? 1. For the cover-up of the origins - read The Secret Sect, and othe books largely quaoted in this forum and in the numerous sites available on the internet. 2. For the cover-up of the financing through trust funds - read the recent posts of your friend Nathan. 3. For the cover-up of numerous sexual scandals and of the numerous homosexual relationships - read many threads on this forum and elsewhere. 4. For the cover-up of ex-communications and dictatorial-style management - ask for example Mr. Propp and others in Canada. ... darkness which may be felt.
|
|
|
Post by mirror on Aug 19, 2007 7:18:16 GMT -5
And don't tell me that because they are available on the internet there is no cover up. I challenge to you to mention atthe beginning of each of your meetings at the 300+ congregation that «A lot of information about the way we are following can be found on the internet. Just Google two by two and read the threads», and THEN tell us how menay will be coming to the aforementioned meetings.
|
|
|
Post by mirror on Aug 19, 2007 7:22:24 GMT -5
I am not leading anybody anywhere. You mentioned that there is no cover up and I came up with a reply mentioning my sources. Apparently you KNOW about these sources but chose to ignore them. And you start an ad hominem attack.
Classic 2x2 style.
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
|
|
|
Post by Question on Aug 19, 2007 8:16:10 GMT -5
Is a H2 Type Hummer fully decked out a necessity or a luxury?
If one buys this Hummer and uses it for their personal family vehicle and then registered it for use as a business vehicle because it is used to pull a trailor used in a business; is this considered an honest tax write off?
It was purchased for the family use and put under the business such that it could be a write off. There is also a pickup truck available that is cheaper and more suited for pulling the trailor required for the business. Would this Hummer be considered a fraud since it really not required for the business? Good 2x2 people do things like this. This is cheating the tax man.
The question must be asked, What practical purpose does this Hummer have towards the faimly use vs the business. Being fully decked out and very expensive, used mostly for the family is clearly not a necessity. It is vanity and then the vainity is covered up in the grey area of being a business write off. Good 2x2 never do anything wrong, yea right.
|
|
chris
Junior Member
Posts: 90
|
Post by chris on Aug 19, 2007 8:20:42 GMT -5
Honesty is not found in what "group" you associate with but in your heart!!
But I know of those who validate what they "say' & "do" because they are the only "right" way. I don't know if they even realize they are doing this!
|
|
|
Post by IS on Aug 19, 2007 8:21:52 GMT -5
Is money ($20,000) transported across from Canada to the USA without informing the authoritys of such a transport legal? No. It is a violation of both the USA and Canadian security LAWS. This was done covertly and then given to a family such that they could give it to a Convention ground use. The receiving end did not devulge to the IRS about these funds so then there is another violation of the US laws.
It should have been shown as a gift by the receiving end. More deception of the 2x2 money system.
You may get your wish soon. IRS will be reviewing some of these things.
|
|
|
Post by mirror on Aug 19, 2007 8:23:09 GMT -5
Unless you provide a telephone number, an address and a valid e-mail you are as anonymous as I am.
Try replying the questions I asked you on other threads because people are paying attention, you are not.
And stop this menacing tone - I do not buy into threats, fear or the other nice rotten fruits exchanged into meetings any more. Just answer the questions about the trust funds please.
|
|
|
Post by bluejay on Aug 19, 2007 10:53:56 GMT -5
Dear Monica,
I'm late in adding my 2 cents worth to this thread. I've read through it and see you've received some excellent advice from several posters. I have a few additional thoughts to share with you (hopefully I'm not repeating things).
I view attending meetings as a gathering between "friends" (pun intended)!! You meet with the same group of people week after week, and a sudden, prolonged absence should cause concern within your meeting. I know some have left meetings suddenly and never been contacted to see what's wrong, and I find that tragic. I think calling your elders, or asking to see them for a little visit, is the decent thing to do. In the 'small groups' I've met with for spiritual fellowship it's how such things are handled. We're concerned when someone just doesn't show up for a few studies without notifying anyone. If no-one in the group has had contact with them, one of us will call to see everything is okay. Almost always it's because of a conflict in schedule, illness, or family concerns, etc. That way, the group knows what's happening, and the absent person knows they're cared about. Sometimes they've just decided this particular group isn't for them, and that's okay too.
From what I've discovered in the past several years, professing people too often feel that those who leave meetings are choosing to "leave God". I believe that explaining our spiritual reasons to them is the best way to establish our current understandings. Putting it in writing, such as an "exit letter" is even better. If your elders are given the letter, as well as the workers in your "field", I believe you're doing your part in showing them you're not leaving in anger or bitterness.
However, there still will be hard feelings ..... from professing family & friends. That's inevitable when choosing to turn away from a group that embraces an exclusive spiritual belief. If you do at some point begin to attend a church, it's even more of a slap in the face to them. If you've been clear in your reasons for leaving, loving & polite in your visits, and genuine in your spirit to them, you can rest easy.
I can assure you that God will provide guidance & comfort in your journey. His hand is leading you, and you will find peace and joy in obeying.
|
|
|
Post by gloryintruth on Aug 19, 2007 17:56:04 GMT -5
1. For the cover-up of the origins - read The Secret Sect, and othe books largely quaoted in this forum and in the numerous sites available on the internet.
Again, I reject there has been any systematic cover-up of the Fellowship's origins. There has been widespread ignorance, but as I said before, ignorance is not deception. Where the facts have been learned, people have dealt with them. For instance, my old elder used to say in his testimonies to the meeting on several occassions about "the first workers who came out of Ireland".
At convention, the Head Worker has said there is no continuous succession of the Fellowship from the time of Christ to now - as in the sense of "Apostolic Succession" - but this is not necessary for the Fellowship to still be the true Church. The Head Worker also mentioned William Irvine - whom he knew as a youngster (William Irvine converted his parents) - and gave us some real, first-hand details about the man.
An alleged "cover-up of origins", in the sense of a conspiracy among many Workers and Friends - is no longer a credible argument to use against the Fellowship. (If indeed, it ever was. Conspiracy theories can neither be proved nor disproved, which is where they gain their plausability. The concept of a "cover-up" amounts to a conspiracy theory in my book.)
2. For the cover-up of the financing through trust funds - read the recent posts of your friend Nathan.
Is this a localised issue, or one that concerns the universal church. I know for a fact that Head Workers in the U.K. will not accept large donations from the Friends, precisely so as to avoid any financial complications.
Nathan hardly suggested there was a massive scandal. And if YOU know about it, then it hasn't been covered-up too well, has it. (The irony being that all "cover-ups" are revealed on this forum among the exes, thereby suggesting there never was a cover-up.)
3. For the cover-up of numerous sexual scandals and of the numerous homosexual relationships - read many threads on this forum and elsewhere.
You mean, I should regard the TMB as an authoritative and reliable purveyor of news about the Fellowship? Hardly! I don't take 80% of what is written here as serious or factual. The TMB is one of the most biased propaganda machines for exes in existence on the Internet. And just because someone says something does not make that statement "evidence" - hard as it is to believe.
4. For the cover-up of ex-communications and dictatorial-style management - ask for example Mr. Propp and others in Canada.
I approve of the actions of the Workers in Alberta. The more I read (and listen to illicitly taped phone conversations) the more I recognise a widespread heresy; revolt; mutiny that is contrary to the Christian order, and the Christian life of the Church.
Where you see "dictatorial-style management", I see a shepherd wielding a crossier, beating off the wolves and vultures - in other words, doing his job - to protect those who simply wish to worship the Lord God without the mind-numbingly insignficant political circus that was created by those now excommunicated. By the way, I have met Willis Prop. He came to our convention one year.
... darkness which may be felt.
Well... let's turn on the lights, shall we?
|
|
|
Post by to git on Aug 19, 2007 18:07:58 GMT -5
git,
You can reject the cover-up all you want. That doesn't erase the fact that it happened.
oh, yes, the lights are on, but you refuse to open your eyes.
|
|
|
Post by To Monica on Aug 19, 2007 18:18:24 GMT -5
Monica,
Leaving the workers' group is NOT leaving Jesus/God.
Jesus assures us:
I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me (John 10:14)
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. (John 10:27-29)
You are in HIS hands, not the workers'.
And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. (1 John 5:11)
|
|
|
Post by what GIT is about on Aug 19, 2007 18:31:58 GMT -5
GIT believes that "true Christianity" is 2x2ism and only 2x2ism. That's it. According to GIT, either you are a "true Christian" (who goes to meetings) or you are doomed to a lost eternity.
Do not be decieved.
|
|
|
Post by gloryintruth on Aug 19, 2007 18:47:50 GMT -5
GIT believes that "true Christianity" is 2x2ism and only 2x2ism. That's it. According to GIT, either you are a "true Christian" (who goes to meetings) or you are doomed to a lost eternity. Do not be decieved.
You have posted this message about three times now. I can only assume you are either a teenager who is desperate for your message to be given attention, or you are an adult with a maturity problem. In any case, your statement is wrong. It is itself a deception - you are "deceiving and being deceived".
True Christianity is what we practice in our daily lives. It is about manifesting the divine life of Christ, which is shown in our love for each other, in our interest in the world God has created, in the honour and dilligence with which we perform our work to improve the society in which we live. It is evinced by a high regard for the truth, by a love for mercy, humility, the word of God, and the preaching of the gospel. I just happen to believe that the only true Church is the Fellowship, and that anything outside of it is to a greater or lesser degree, corrupt.
It is partially thanks to people such as yourself that I have had this shift of perspective (not that I needed much shifting). The bitterness and smallness of mind and soul demonstrated by those who supposedly have found the "true gospel" and the "real Jesus" is sorry, sad and tragic. The immaturity, the disinterest in knowledge, the irrationality, are not, in my view, the mark of someone who is walking with Christ.
Now, it is a bright and happy day. Spring is in the air. My dogs are asleep near my study desk, but they will want their breakfast. I will get ready for work, and look forward to a day of improving the minds and souls of today's young people. Ironically, the unit of study revolves around mindless hatred: religious bigotry, intolerance, genocide and racism.
Leaving the mouldy antics of the TMB, I go out into a beautiful day, giving thanks to God!
|
|
|
Post by john kladstrop on Aug 19, 2007 19:14:47 GMT -5
Alas....the evidence for the "[glow=red,2,300]GREAT FALLING AWAY[/glow]" is all too terrifyingly apparent. [glow=red,2,300]REPENT[/glow] for we live in the [glow=red,2,300]END TIMES[/glow]....when even the very elect shall be led astray by those who have lost the truth, and by apostate ministers of God's [glow=red,2,300]TRUE CHURCH.[/glow] [glow=red,2,300]REPENT[/glow]...and tarry not in the false religion churches of the worldlings. [glow=red,2,300]THE END IS NEAR[/glow]
|
|
|
Post by to GIT on Aug 19, 2007 20:06:33 GMT -5
GIT,
I noticed that you talked quite a bit about that blurb but you didn't respond to it. Is that because it's true and you've been caught?
|
|
|
Post by Sylvestra on Aug 19, 2007 22:08:19 GMT -5
GIT, I noticed that you talked quite a bit about that blurb but you didn't respond to it. Is that because it's true and you've been caught? Nay! Git has spoken! Now we can all take our marbles and go home! E
|
|
|
Post by gloryintruth on Aug 19, 2007 23:19:55 GMT -5
Nay! Git has spoken! Now we can all take our marbles and go home!
You have made it plain what you think of me, Sylvestra. I do not think it needs to be hammered home on an ongoing basis. I get the message already.
Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by mirror on Aug 20, 2007 1:12:52 GMT -5
1. For the cover-up of the origins - read The Secret Sect, and othe books largely quaoted in this forum and in the numerous sites available on the internet.Again, I reject there has been any systematic cover-up of the Fellowship's origins. There has been widespread ignorance, but as I said before, ignorance is not deception. Where the facts have been learned, people have dealt with them. For instance, my old elder used to say in his testimonies to the meeting on several occassions about "the first workers who came out of Ireland". At convention, the Head Worker has said there is no continuous succession of the Fellowship from the time of Christ to now - as in the sense of "Apostolic Succession" - but this is not necessary for the Fellowship to still be the true Church. The Head Worker also mentioned William Irvine - whom he knew as a youngster (William Irvine converted his parents) - and gave us some real, first-hand details about the man. An alleged "cover-up of origins", in the sense of a conspiracy among many Workers and Friends - is no longer a credible argument to use against the Fellowship. (If indeed, it ever was. Conspiracy theories can neither be proved nor disproved, which is where they gain their plausability. The concept of a "cover-up" amounts to a conspiracy theory in my book.) The cover up is not a theory. It happened and continues to happen. I challenged you to mention at the beginning of each of your meetings at the 300+ congregation that «A lot of information about the way we are following can be found on the internet. Just Google two by two and read the threads», and THEN tell us how meny will be coming to the aforementioned meetings. And you know that there are sins by commission and sins by omission - half the truth is a lie. We have lived through such scandals in the USA, in Canada, in Europe (several places). You may consider this localised if you want. For me (and many others it is universal). [/quote] 3. For the cover-up of numerous sexual scandals and of the numerous homosexual relationships - read many threads on this forum and elsewhere.You mean, I should regard the TMB as an authoritative and reliable purveyor of news about the Fellowship? Hardly! I don't take 80% of what is written here as serious or factual. The TMB is one of the most biased propaganda machines for exes in existence on the Internet. And just because someone says something does not make that statement "evidence" - hard as it is to believe.[/quote] No read the papers and speak with people IN the fellowship. The TMB is the last place these things appear. Heresy; revolt; mutiny that is contrary to the Christian order, and the Christian life of the Church. I thought that the Church was about love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith. You made my point. Thanks. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.And as a previous poster said the lights are on, but you refuse to open your eyes.
|
|
|
Post by gloryintruth on Aug 20, 2007 2:30:31 GMT -5
I thought that the Church was about love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith. You made my point. Thanks.
I agree, the Christian Church is about all of these things, yet every church reserves the right to excommunicate troublesome members. The Apostle Paul wrote to the church at Corinth to the effect that they should expel the incestuous man. The Apostle John wrote in his First Epistle about Demetrius who "loveth to have the preeminence among them", and whom he was planning to deal with in the future.
The Church is not about chaos, with multiple people scorning the spiritual leadership, and doing their own thing in spite of the Church. Not everyone thinks Willis Prop is a jumped up Adolf, or that that Alberta was discipline triumphing over love. There are other views. We just don't get to hear them often on this forum.
|
|