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Post by rk0atheist on Dec 30, 2023 12:11:32 GMT -5
People born with birth defects deserve support and compassion, not ridicule or demonization.I'm going to post this and I know that the Message Board may automatically alter some of my words. "Homosexuality" may become "happy". We'll see. A lot of people, especially religious people, are very uptight about anything that has to do with sex. I use the words "most" and "generally" a lot because the real world has a habit of escaping the tidy little black & white boxes that we humans try to stuff it into. I'm going to start with Chimerism and Intersex. I'll try to comment on homosexuality in a few days. Most people know about twins. Most people know that most twins generally fall into one of two categories; fraternal or identical. Most people understand that fraternal twins happen when two eggs are fertilized by two sperm. Fraternal twins can both be of the same sex or of different sexes. Most people understand that identical twins happen when one egg is fertilized by one sperm and then a split happens in an early stage of development. Nature's cloning, so to speak. [Side note: I don't know why so many people get freaked out about cloning. Nature does DNA duplication all the time.] Generally, identical twins are going to both be the same sex. Sometimes things don't happen in the expected way. We've all heard about "Siamese twins" or "Conjoined twins". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjoined_twinsSometimes, instead of one becoming two, it goes the other way and two become one. Most people don't know about chimerism. Chimerism is a rare phenomenon where genetic material from two separate fertilized eggs gets combined into a single individual. We've all heard about circus "bearded lady" stories. Some of them may have been chimeras. The term "hermaphrodite" has historically been used to describe individuals with biological characteristics of both sexes. Many now consider this term offensive. The more respectful term is "intersex". There is overlap between "intersex" and "chimera" but they are not the same thing. If the two blastocysts that merged started out as same sex fraternal twins, the person may go through their entire life and never know they are a chimera. They would probably go through their entire life thinking they were a normal male or normal female. They would be chimera but not intersex. Chimerism is only one way that intersex can happen. Some causes are hereditary. When an egg cell and a sperm cell join it is then called a zygote. This is called Fertilization. In humans, fertilization typically occurs in the fallopian tube. In humans, fertilization can occur within minutes of intercourse or as long as 5 days later. After the zygote stage, the next stage in embryonic development is the blastocyst stage. The time from Fertilization to Implantation of the blastocyst into the uterine lining is about 5 to 12 days. It is thought that chimerism is most likely to happen in the Blastocyst stage but it is thought that it can also happen in the zygote stage. The nightmare that we are living in right now is that we are in a world were politicians are making life altering medical decisions for people (children and adults) when the politicians don't understand the science. Many politicians are trapped in the mistaken concept of black & white boxes. Politicians and religious leaders claim that the world is black & white when in reality the world is not black & white. Why are they lying to people? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia_Fairchild
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH2qlVFvKvs Only Human My Unborn Twin is the Mother of my Children | Chimera: The Twin Inside Me Apr 6, 2020 The nightmare began when Lydia Fairchild was told the children she had given birth to could not possibly be her own. Lydia’s fight to prove that she was the mother of her children revealed a secret hidden deep in her body; a twin she never knew.
AIS stands for Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome#Pseudohermaphroditism
"Pseudohermaphroditism" has, until very recently,[121] been the term used in the medical literature to describe the condition of an individual whose gonads and karyotype do not match the external genitalia in the gender binary sense. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_adrenal_hyperplasia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_adrenal_hyperplasia#Diagnosis
Female infants with classic CAH have ambiguous genitalia due to exposure to high concentrations of androgens in utero.[26] CAH due to 21-hydroxylase deficiency is the most common cause of ambiguous genitalia in genotypically normal female infants (46XX).www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tE-UCJyFRs Only Human Neither Male or Female - Secret Intersex (Gender & Sex Documentary) Jan 12, 2018
Every year in the UK, 2,000 babies are born with ambiguous genitalia. Secret Intersex explores what it means to be born genderless by following a range of intersex cases: couples who have given birth to children with ambiguous genitalia and must decide, with a doctor’s help, on the gender of their child; a teenage girl who has lived with a penis structure for 15 years and is only now embarking on treatment; and an adult female who is still coming to terms with her gender after years of living as a male.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WsF9Z4B7T8 Could You Be a Chimera? Jun 21, 2019 Ever feel like you aren't totally yourself? Well, maybe you aren't. In this video, we explore the idea of human chimeras. In mythology, the "Chimaera" was a beast made from different animals combined into one. But in biology, a chimera is a single organism whose body is made from parts of two or more genetically distinct individuals of the same species. Biological chimeras were once thought to be rare, but modern genetics has shown us that these genetic mashups are so common, that you yourself may actually be a chimera. And even if you don't have part of another body in you, your body is certainly not just one thing. We also discuss the idea of mosaicism and how it relates to cancer, Tasmanian devils, and circus sideshow attractions.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2023 14:49:42 GMT -5
You might be right about one aspect of this hermaphrodites are a different issue than transsexuals and homosexuals...
I don't think anyone here that I can remember has mocked hermaphroditism. People have been pressed/confronted when its been used to justify transsexualism or homosexuality.
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Post by rk0atheist on Dec 30, 2023 15:22:54 GMT -5
You might be right about one aspect of this hermaphrodites are a different issue than transsexuals and homosexuals... I don't think anyone here that I can remember has mocked hermaphroditism. People have been pressed/confronted when its been used to justify transsexualism or homosexuality.
My point was that the world is not as black & white as some people like to claim. There are people who do not fit into the nice, neat, tidy, binary boxes of male/female.
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Post by xna on Dec 30, 2023 15:49:33 GMT -5
Why are they lying to people? I suspect most religious teachers don’t have a deep enough understanding to appreciate your post. What they know is the bible, and that world is a B&W world. Their world is B&W, because their book says so. Some of the 2x2 have studied genetics and embryology but cognitive dissonance can handle any doubts or conflicts which may arise between science and religious teachings. The Abrahamic religions are binary, with little if any room for a middle. Their god seeks the perfect. The deformed is not acceptable and needs fixing. Here are some examples that illustrates that point; Leviticus 22:20 "But whatsoever hath a blemish, that shall ye not offer: for it shall not be acceptable for you.”
Leviticus 21:16-23 16 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. 18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, 19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, 20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; 21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. 22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy. 23 Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the Lord do sanctify them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2023 16:23:26 GMT -5
Why are they lying to people? I suspect most religious teachers don’t have a deep enough understanding to appreciate your post. What they know is the bible, and that world is a B&W world. Their world is B&W, because their book says so. Some of the 2x2 have studied genetics and embryology but cognitive dissonance can handle any doubts or conflicts which may arise between science and religious teachings. The Abrahamic religions are binary, with little if any room for a middle. Their god seeks the perfect. The deformed is not acceptable and needs fixing. Here are some examples that illustrates that point; Leviticus 22:20 "But whatsoever hath a blemish, that shall ye not offer: for it shall not be acceptable for you.”
Leviticus 21:16-23 16 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. 18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, 19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, 20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; 21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. 22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy. 23 Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the Lord do sanctify them.I'll lead off with this: 2 cor. 12:9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. Heb. 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Psa. 136:23 Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever: Ro. 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
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Post by rk0atheist on Dec 30, 2023 16:56:23 GMT -5
I just remembered something I forgot to include before. On the topic of bearded ladies, for anyone who hasn't seen the movie "The Greatest Showman" (2017), I highly recommend it. It won a lot of Awards. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_Showman#Accoladeswww.youtube.com/watch?v=CjxugyZCfuw Atlantic Records The Greatest Showman Cast - This Is Me (Official Lyric Video) Jan 11, 2018 The official lyric video of "This Is Me" by The Greatest Showman Cast from the 'The Greatest Showman Soundtrack'.
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Post by xna on Dec 30, 2023 16:58:52 GMT -5
2 cor. 12:9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. To what end? The aim of having "Christ’s power may rest on me" is so you go to heaven, instead of his hell ( binary) Heb. 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. goal is to be perfect "yet without sin" (the example is perfection ie. no deformity, abnormality, or blemish)Psa. 136:23
Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever: Why do we need his mercy? ........ Because it saves you from his hell (binary) Ro. 15:1
We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
"pleasing ourselves" is sin, unforgiven sin gets you sent to hell. (binary)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2023 20:07:16 GMT -5
2 cor. 12:9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. To what end? The aim of having "Christ’s power may rest on me" is so you go to heaven, instead of his hell ( binary) Heb. 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. goal is to be perfect "yet without sin" (the example is perfection ie. no deformity, abnormality, or blemish)Psa. 136:23
Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever: Why do we need his mercy? ........ Because it saves you from his hell (binary) Ro. 15:1
We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
"pleasing ourselves" is sin, unforgiven sin gets you sent to hell. (binary)The point of all of those verses is God offers hope and a hand for those that may be weaker(deformed or whatever label) all you have to do is approach him through Christ instead of the OT you presented which is the old sin and death convenant...
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Post by xna on Dec 30, 2023 20:15:02 GMT -5
The point of all of those verses is God offers hope and a hand for those that may be weaker(deformed or whatever label) all you have to do is approach him through Christ instead of the oT you presented which is the old sin and death convenant... I focused on the B&W binary aspect to the bible. No shades of grey.
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Post by rk0atheist on Dec 31, 2023 7:41:45 GMT -5
Is hating homosexuals a requirement for being a good Christian?
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Post by Dan on Dec 31, 2023 12:24:56 GMT -5
The point of all of those verses is God offers hope and a hand for those that may be weaker(deformed or whatever label) all you have to do is approach him through Christ instead of the oT you presented which is the old sin and death convenant... I focused on the B&W binary aspect to the bible. No shades of grey.
The old testament requirements were that no unclean or blemished thing was acceptable or allowed in the Temple before God, that foreshadowed Christ who washed all our imperfections away. Its not binary per se, just an altercation or path cleared by the unspotted lamb of God. Physical perfection represented spiritual perfection, we can of ourselves achieve neither.
Is hating homosexuals a requirement for being a good Christian?
God hates sin, turning from sin makes a good Christian. Hating others is not a Christian attribute, but neither is accepting or justifying sin.
Hermaphrodites don’t really exist in the sense that a person is both fully male and fully female, that isn’t biologically possible. Genetic mutations occur, occasionally an intersex person is born with a mix of chromosomes, such as XXY or one X.. Imo, the absence of Y chromosomes make a female, no matter the physical attributes.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2023 12:42:32 GMT -5
The point of all of those verses is God offers hope and a hand for those that may be weaker(deformed or whatever label) all you have to do is approach him through Christ instead of the oT you presented which is the old sin and death convenant... I focused on the B&W binary aspect to the bible. No shades of grey. Thats what dooms those that stick with only the OT....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2023 12:44:35 GMT -5
Is hating homosexuals a requirement for being a good Christian?
Hating sin(whats done), sure, hating people not so much...God abhors(hates) evil/sin. We are suppose to be like him(rarely are)...
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 31, 2023 12:49:19 GMT -5
I suspect most religious teachers don’t have a deep enough understanding to appreciate your post. What they know is the bible, and that world is a B&W world. Their world is B&W, because their book says so. Some of the 2x2 have studied genetics and embryology but cognitive dissonance can handle any doubts or conflicts which may arise between science and religious teachings. The Abrahamic religions are binary, with little if any room for a middle. Their god seeks the perfect. The deformed is not acceptable and needs fixing. Here are some examples that illustrates that point; Leviticus 22:20 "But whatsoever hath a blemish, that shall ye not offer: for it shall not be acceptable for you.”
Leviticus 21:16-23 16 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. 18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, 19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, 20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; 21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. 22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy. 23 Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the Lord do sanctify them.I'll lead off with this: 2 cor. 12:9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. Heb. 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Psa. 136:23 Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever: Ro. 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Those are metaphorical verses about the weakness of the flesh. Did your holy spirit not inform you of that?
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Post by rk0atheist on Dec 31, 2023 13:06:31 GMT -5
Hermaphrodites don’t really exist in the sense that a person is both fully male and fully female, that isn’t biologically possible. Genetic mutations occur, occasionally an intersex person is born with a mix of chromosomes, such as XXY or one X.. Imo, the absence of Y chromosomes make a female, no matter the physical attributes.
Either you didn't watch the video at all, or you didn't understand it. Try again starting at 2:10. It's not a genetic mutation. It's a fusion of two cells or two groups of cells. One living breathing person can have two full sets of DNA. A person can be XX+XY. www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WsF9Z4B7T8&t=130s
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Post by xna on Dec 31, 2023 15:42:24 GMT -5
Interesting cases. I wonder if in the future someone will use CRISPR technology like is now used to alter ones DNA who has sickle cell disease, to alter their own DNA, so as to be excluded as a suspect in a crime based on a DNA test. In college I studied the cell differentiation from zygote to blastocyst in different organisms. All animals pretty much start out the same looking at the stage of the blastocysts. At that time DNA testing was not possible so we only looked at the stages of organ developments. One of the most amazing biological manifestations of DNA is the life cycle of an insect (egg, larva, pupa, and adult) and the process of metamorphosis. Some animals can also reverse the stages of development based on the environment. While each stage of the lifecycle of an insect looks completely different they all have the exact same DNA. It may be possible in the future to cause some of our genes to be expressed that are now latent. ie we may decide to grow our tail or gills as adults, as we have those instructions in our genes. Embrace your inner fish.
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Post by snow on Dec 31, 2023 15:59:11 GMT -5
The point is this. Like @rkoatheist said gender is not black and white. It just isn't. The Jews decided that homosexuality was a sin. Other cultures never were prejudiced against homosexuality and in many they were actually shamans and other revered persons in the tribe. That's why religions should never have the power to make the laws or rule. What their religion believes is not necessarily true and it discriminates against anyone that doesn't believe like they do.
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Post by rk0atheist on Dec 31, 2023 16:08:37 GMT -5
Interesting cases. I wonder if in the future someone will use CRISPR technology like is now used to alter ones DNA who has sickle cell disease, to alter their own DNA, so as to be excluded as a suspect in a crime based on a DNA test. In college I studied the cell differentiation from zygote to blastocyst in different organisms. All animals pretty much start out the same looking at the stage of the blastocysts. At that time DNA testing was not possible so we only looked at the stages of organ developments. One of the most amazing biological manifestations of DNA is the life cycle of an insect (egg, larva, pupa, and adult) and the process of metamorphosis. Some animals can also reverse the stages of development based on the environment. While each stage of the lifecycle of an insect looks completely different they all have the exact same DNA. It may be possible in the future to cause some of our genes to be expressed that are now latent. ie we may decide to grow our tail or gills as adults, as we have those instructions in our genes. Embrace your inner fish.
I don't know how many gazillion cells there are in a human body but it would be an amazing feat to alter all of them. It would probably have to use some kind of virus. I don't know if it could get every single cell in the body. Sickle cell, maybe. I guess that would be bone marrow targets. I know they are working on gene therapy treatments for color-blindness but that is just limited to the retinas. I'm happy without a tail, thank you. Sometimes I wish I had ear lids so I could block out noise without having to put my fingers in my ears.
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Post by snow on Dec 31, 2023 16:25:44 GMT -5
Interesting cases. I wonder if in the future someone will use CRISPR technology like is now used to alter ones DNA who has sickle cell disease, to alter their own DNA, so as to be excluded as a suspect in a crime based on a DNA test. In college I studied the cell differentiation from zygote to blastocyst in different organisms. All animals pretty much start out the same looking at the stage of the blastocysts. At that time DNA testing was not possible so we only looked at the stages of organ developments. One of the most amazing biological manifestations of DNA is the life cycle of an insect (egg, larva, pupa, and adult) and the process of metamorphosis. Some animals can also reverse the stages of development based on the environment. While each stage of the lifecycle of an insect looks completely different they all have the exact same DNA. It may be possible in the future to cause some of our genes to be expressed that are now latent. ie we may decide to grow our tail or gills as adults, as we have those instructions in our genes. Embrace your inner fish. I think I should have been a biologist. My favorite part of biology classes was genetics. Working with fruit flies. I find it fascinating how we look so similar in the beginning. It's not hard to understand how we evolved or that we did evolve knowing what we know about the similarities between the fish and human embryos in their early stages. Thank you xna for this video. Always great to learn more about how just the smallest change/abnormality can make us look so different. Yet another reason why we need to accept that there is so many possibilities in how we physically look and also how we may not match how we look with how we view ourselves. So many things can happen in the womb.
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Post by rk0atheist on Dec 31, 2023 17:36:39 GMT -5
Interesting cases. I wonder if in the future someone will use CRISPR technology like is now used to alter ones DNA who has sickle cell disease, to alter their own DNA, so as to be excluded as a suspect in a crime based on a DNA test. In college I studied the cell differentiation from zygote to blastocyst in different organisms. All animals pretty much start out the same looking at the stage of the blastocysts. At that time DNA testing was not possible so we only looked at the stages of organ developments. One of the most amazing biological manifestations of DNA is the life cycle of an insect (egg, larva, pupa, and adult) and the process of metamorphosis. Some animals can also reverse the stages of development based on the environment. While each stage of the lifecycle of an insect looks completely different they all have the exact same DNA. It may be possible in the future to cause some of our genes to be expressed that are now latent. ie we may decide to grow our tail or gills as adults, as we have those instructions in our genes. Embrace your inner fish.
That is a fascinating video. I enjoyed watching it.
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Post by xna on Dec 31, 2023 18:41:55 GMT -5
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 31, 2023 22:06:23 GMT -5
Hermaphrodites don’t really exist in the sense that a person is both fully male and fully female, that isn’t biologically possible. Genetic mutations occur, occasionally an intersex person is born with a mix of chromosomes, such as XXY or one X.. Imo, the absence of Y chromosomes make a female, no matter the physical attributes.
Either you didn't watch the video at all, or you didn't understand it. Try again starting at 2:10. It's not a genetic mutation. It's a fusion of two cells or two groups of cells. One living breathing person can have two full sets of DNA. A person can be XX+XY. www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WsF9Z4B7T8&t=130sFar more logical than a virgin birth !!!!!
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Post by rk0atheist on Jan 1, 2024 6:05:54 GMT -5
I wonder if in the future someone will use CRISPR technology like is now used to alter ones DNA who has sickle cell disease, to alter their own DNA, so as to be excluded as a suspect in a crime based on a DNA test.
Somehow I missed this. I must have been too preoccupied with Christmas and other crazy December stuff. As I understand it, the cells are removed from the patient, modified in the lab, and then returned to the patient's body. The modification is not done directly in the patient's body. Still, it is a remarkable and promising advance in medicine. FDA Approves First Gene Therapies to Treat Patients with Sickle Cell Disease December 08, 2023
www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-gene-therapies-treat-patients-sickle-cell-disease
"... Casgevy, is the first FDA-approved treatment to utilize a type of novel genome editing technology, signaling an innovative advancement in the field of gene therapy." Casgevy (exagamglogene autotemcel) for sickle cell disease Dec. 13, 2023
sicklecellanemianews.com/ctx001-sickle-cell-disease
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Post by rk0atheist on Jan 1, 2024 6:23:46 GMT -5
Far more logical than a virgin birth !!!!!
I don't have a problem with the mechanics of a virgin birth myth. That's the easy part. I just can't imagine why any all-knowing, all-powerful being would bother with such a convoluted and obscure method to attempt communication/education. God needs better technical writers and better marketing directors.
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Post by xna on Jan 1, 2024 8:16:57 GMT -5
I wonder if in the future someone will use CRISPR technology like is now used to alter ones DNA who has sickle cell disease, to alter their own DNA, so as to be excluded as a suspect in a crime based on a DNA test. Somehow I missed this. I must have been too preoccupied with Christmas and other crazy December stuff.
As I understand it, the cells are removed from the patient, modified in the lab, and then returned to the patient's body. The modification is not done directly in the patient's body. Still, it is a remarkable and promising advance in medicine.Who knows what the future will bring. It seems we have just started down this journey. Today there are several ways to alter the DNA in all your cells inside your body, but today it's a blunt tool without good results or much control today.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2024 11:55:31 GMT -5
Is hating homosexuals a requirement for being a good Christian?
In principle, Christians should hate all sin, but love all sinners (everyone). In principle, this would make it impossible to look down or judge anyone in the context of "sin" because it would be hypocrisy. This should, in principle, put all on even footing, and the merit of Christian works would be in the capacity to not be condescending and in having compassion and love to all. In practice, Christians seem to divide sin into two categories- those that define the person and those that afflict the person. A Christian might therefore say they "struggle" with pornography rather than calling themselves a "porn addict". In practice, Christians also seem to take ideas they don't understand well or are opposed to, and call them "sin". (Evolution, for a different example than the one in this thread to illustrate). This is enticing for the Christian mind because they can therefore be very vocal in their opposition and feel like they are fighting the good fight of faith. They can also label people in ways that don't really define a person by themselves ("Evolutionists", for instance), but it's OK in the Christian mind because they aren't in that category. And then you have categories. One associated with sin (regardless of whether it is or not) and the other associated with Godly Christians. And once humans make categories, the principle that all are equal because all are sinners is in conflict with the "Sin categories" that people belong to (because it's their identity now, and not just a feature of their lives). Throw away compassion, enter judgement. Breed hate, over generations.
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Post by xna on Jan 1, 2024 12:29:52 GMT -5
Is hating homosexuals a requirement for being a good Christian?
In principle, Christians should hate all sin, but love all sinners (everyone). In principle, this would make it impossible to look down or judge anyone in the context of "sin" because it would be hypocrisy. “Love the sinner hate the sin”, as well as “unconditional love”, are often sited as examples of Jesus teaching. BUT what they fail to also mention is “loves is only up to a point”, then it’s “to hell with them”.
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Post by rk0atheist on Jan 1, 2024 12:33:51 GMT -5
Is hating homosexuals a requirement for being a good Christian? In practice, Christians seem to divide sin into two categories- those that define the person and those that afflict the person. A Christian might therefore say they "struggle" with pornography rather than calling themselves a "porn addict". I don't understand what you mean by the two categories. Do you see homosexuality as something that defines a person or as something that afflicts a person? Is it the choice question? Can Christians only call homosexuality a sin if they also claim it is a choice? If Christians admit that homosexuality is something that a person is born with then does that mean they can no longer call it a sin?
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