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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 16:57:44 GMT -5
All of them are for that particular sin. Ideals such as above do not necessarily apply across all conditions... If perchance this is genetic (it's not definitive enough yet for me) it would be much like any other problem or issue that could be laid against genetics. God has given you something to conquer not indulge in. Godly discernment will help you choose the right path if you let him guide.
What would it take to convince you that homosexuality is a condition that some people are born with?
There is a gene being looked at but nothing has been firmly determined i posted it many moons ago. I'd be Suspicious though of any "finding". I'll admit to that bias....
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Post by rk0atheist on Jan 3, 2024 17:49:59 GMT -5
What would it take to convince you that homosexuality is a condition that some people are born with?
There is a gene being looked at but nothing has been firmly determined i posted it many moons ago. I'd be Suspicious though of any "finding". I'll admit to that bias....
That video I posted includes an interview with Dean Hamer who discovered what was called the "gay gene" 20 or so years ago. Dean Hamer himself says it's not just one single gene.
From twin studies it is known that there is a genetic component to being gay but it is not just genetics. It is also epigenetics. That is, it is not just a matter of having a gene but is the gene turned on or turned off. What causes a gene to be turned on or turned off is due to something that happened in the womb before the baby was born but exactly what that was is not yet known.
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Post by snow on Jan 3, 2024 18:57:49 GMT -5
Sure it's crazy, but it's a direct response to the belief that there are only two genders male and female like the bible teaches. The parents that get this crazy are the ones that are terrified of raising a child that 'might turn into a homosexual' because they belief that it's their environment that makes them homosexuals. If they understood and believed the science behind why some people are gay, they wouldn't need to be afraid of turning their kids into homosexuals by allowing gender inappropriate toys into their kids lives. You're right the world has gone mad, and religion is helping. You have to explain what happens in prisons then or do you think that criminals are naturally homosexual? Prisons have always been like that. Since they only have one gender they have sex with that gender. But that doesn't make them homosexuals because in the world where they are free to choose, they would still prefer a woman. They are not attracted to their own sex like a homosexual is. Rather like an abuser of opportunity. They prefer adults to rape, but if the opportunity opens up for a child they will take that opportunity. But they are not pedophiles because children are not their preferred target.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 21:10:53 GMT -5
You have to explain what happens in prisons then or do you think that criminals are naturally homosexual? Prisons have always been like that. Since they only have one gender they have sex with that gender. But that doesn't make them homosexuals because in the world where they are free to choose, they would still prefer a woman. They are not attracted to their own sex like a homosexual is. Rather like an abuser of opportunity. They prefer adults to rape, but if the opportunity opens up for a child they will take that opportunity. But they are not pedophiles because children are not their preferred target. Going with same sex because there are no other options is still a choice. That logic doesn't make sense. It's like saying a person that only kills one person is not a murder but those who have killed more than one are. You can't get a riser if you don't "like/love" it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 22:11:19 GMT -5
Sometimes it's like green beans and cookies. Most people would rather eat cookies than eat green beans. But if there are no cookies and people get hungry enough, they will eat green beans.
There is also the dominance factor. In some cases it is not about sex at all, it is about asserting dominance.
That my friend would be called choice, choosing to be or do something despite the contrary way to be...not genetics at all.... I think rk0athiest was referring to the idea that some people are naturally inclined to one, but some are naturally inclined toward the other. In that analogy, the genetic influence would be the original predisposition towards cookies or beans (homo vs hetero). The choice would be the ability to, for a variety of reasons (prison related, or in the opposite case, religion related) to go the other direction. I tend to say "genetic factor(s)" which may influence that predisposition. It's poorly understood even now, and embryonic environment, timing, hormones... they all could factor. It's not a "single gene" thing, just like it's not a "pure choice" thing. I didn't choose to be heterosexual. *edit - I should've read the rest of the updated posts - I repeated a bit - apologies
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Post by Dan on Jan 3, 2024 22:50:23 GMT -5
All of them are for that particular sin. Ideals such as above do not necessarily apply across all conditions... If perchance this is genetic (it's not definitive enough yet for me) it would be much like any other problem or issue that could be laid against genetics. God has given you something to conquer not indulge in. Godly discernment will help you choose the right path if you let him guide.
What would it take to convince you that homosexuality is a condition that some people are born with?
From a biblical perspective, it doesn't matter. God said, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). The sin isn't an abnormal attraction to the same sex, its acting on it. Saying its okay to act on an abnormality you may have been born with is like saying that its okay for a kleptomaniac to steal.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 3:04:11 GMT -5
What would it take to convince you that homosexuality is a condition that some people are born with?
From a biblical perspective, it doesn't matter. God said, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). The sin isn't an abnormal attraction to the same sex, its acting on it. Saying its okay to act on an abnormality you may have been born with is like saying that its okay for a kleptomaniac to steal.
I know it opens a door to many other "sins" being "born that way"....
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 4, 2024 4:47:26 GMT -5
Why should she have to explain -- she's never been in prison. If you've been in prison, you tell us. Otherwise, let some other guy who's been in prison explain it for us. It's quite common knowledge what happens in prison, no need to be a member to explain it really... You watch too many movies.
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Post by rk0atheist on Jan 4, 2024 5:26:15 GMT -5
What would it take to convince you that homosexuality is a condition that some people are born with?
From a biblical perspective, it doesn't matter. God said, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). The sin isn't an abnormal attraction to the same sex, its acting on it. Saying its okay to act on an abnormality you may have been born with is like saying that its okay for a kleptomaniac to steal.
The Christian Bible is man-made dogma. Men wrote it in ancient times. Men AND Women are building a new, kinder, better informed world in current times. It's happening. You can't stop it. And you hate it.
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Post by rk0atheist on Jan 4, 2024 5:29:00 GMT -5
From a biblical perspective, it doesn't matter. God said, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). The sin isn't an abnormal attraction to the same sex, its acting on it. Saying its okay to act on an abnormality you may have been born with is like saying that its okay for a kleptomaniac to steal.
I know it opens a door to many other "sins" being "born that way"....
Which "sins" do you have in mind?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 8:19:34 GMT -5
It's quite common knowledge what happens in prison, no need to be a member to explain it really... You watch too many movies. nope good try though mr. eel...
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Post by maryhig on Jan 4, 2024 9:06:07 GMT -5
I know it opens a door to many other "sins" being "born that way"....
Which "sins" do you have in mind?
Just as Dan said for a start, men sleeping with men and women sleeping with women. That is wrong before the living God.
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Post by snow on Jan 4, 2024 16:50:25 GMT -5
Prisons have always been like that. Since they only have one gender they have sex with that gender. But that doesn't make them homosexuals because in the world where they are free to choose, they would still prefer a woman. They are not attracted to their own sex like a homosexual is. Rather like an abuser of opportunity. They prefer adults to rape, but if the opportunity opens up for a child they will take that opportunity. But they are not pedophiles because children are not their preferred target. Going with same sex because there are no other options is still a choice. That logic doesn't make sense. It's like saying a person that only kills one person is not a murder but those who have killed more than one are. You can't get a riser if you don't "like/love" it. Actually no. The murder analogy doesn't fit. Sex is a drive that many will act on. Men have done that for a long time and I imagine it's the same from some women. The difference is this. Homosexuals are not attracted to the opposite gender. They literally are attracted to their own when they have both genders to choose from. Sex with the same sex in prison is not what a majority of inmates would do when having access to both genders. That's the difference. I totally agree that for some it can be a choice and the prison scenario is a good example of that. But those who are just not attracted to the opposite sex are not making a 'choice'. Unless you are saying that a person that is attracted only to their own gender should never have sex in their lives ever. I would then have to say that being heterosexual is also a choice. Paul advocated that you should only marry if you couldn't control your lust. So definitely a choice to have sex of any kind is a choice in those terms.
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Post by Dan on Jan 4, 2024 17:04:58 GMT -5
From a biblical perspective, it doesn't matter. God said, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). The sin isn't an abnormal attraction to the same sex, its acting on it. Saying its okay to act on an abnormality you may have been born with is like saying that its okay for a kleptomaniac to steal.
The Christian Bible is man-made dogma. Men wrote it in ancient times. Men AND Women are building a new, kinder, better informed world in current times. It's happening. You can't stop it. And you hate it.
You obviously haven't been watching much news lately? The folks in the Ukraine and Gaza aren't likely seeing the kinder better world that you've envisioned.. But your right, I don't like sins that violate nature. And your right, I can't stop it, but I have faith that one day God will put an end to all of it.
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Post by rk0atheist on Jan 4, 2024 17:58:40 GMT -5
The Christian Bible is man-made dogma. Men wrote it in ancient times. Men AND Women are building a new, kinder, better informed world in current times. It's happening. You can't stop it. And you hate it.
You obviously haven't been watching much news lately? The folks in the Ukraine and Gaza aren't likely seeing the kinder better world that you've envisioned.. But your right, I don't like sins that violate nature. And your right, I can't stop it, but I have faith that one day God will put an end to all of it.
The horrors of war are not new. What is new is the global communication of that horror. Think about that TV or computer or smartphone or whatever device you are using that allows you to have the knowledge of those horrors of war that are happening all around the world within hours of them happening. Think about the device the person at the other end is using to send that information to you. Those devices didn't come out of your Bible. Those devices came from scientists and engineers.
If God had really wanted his workers to spread his word, why didn't he have Jesus provide instructions for building a printing press? And don't say it was because people back then couldn't read. God could have made teaching people to read a new commandment.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 20:11:28 GMT -5
I know it opens a door to many other "sins" being "born that way"....
Which "sins" do you have in mind?
All listed in scripture or referred too...you are not aware of the religious do's and don'ts?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 20:21:03 GMT -5
Going with same sex because there are no other options is still a choice. That logic doesn't make sense. It's like saying a person that only kills one person is not a murder but those who have killed more than one are. You can't get a riser if you don't "like/love" it. Actually no. The murder analogy doesn't fit. Sex is a drive that many will act on. Men have done that for a long time and I imagine it's the same from some women. The difference is this. Homosexuals are not attracted to the opposite gender. They literally are attracted to their own when they have both genders to choose from. Sex with the same sex in prison is not what a majority of inmates would do when having access to both genders. That's the difference. I totally agree that for some it can be a choice and the prison scenario is a good example of that. But those who are just not attracted to the opposite sex are not making a 'choice'. Unless you are saying that a person that is attracted only to their own gender should never have sex in their lives ever. I would then have to say that being heterosexual is also a choice. Paul advocated that you should only marry if you couldn't control your lust. So definitely a choice to have sex of any kind is a choice in those terms. So is murder...been around as long as sex almost....a choice is a choice...unless your a victim of rape...but then the initiator in rape is still making the choice. Um its fairly clear from the biblical standpoint no same sex ever only hetero...so yes no sex. Paul specifically said he spoke not under a commandment but his personal viewpoint on singlehood for that verse.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 20:24:58 GMT -5
You obviously haven't been watching much news lately? The folks in the Ukraine and Gaza aren't likely seeing the kinder better world that you've envisioned.. But your right, I don't like sins that violate nature. And your right, I can't stop it, but I have faith that one day God will put an end to all of it.
The horrors of war are not new. What is new is the global communication of that horror. Think about that TV or computer or smartphone or whatever device you are using that allows you to have the knowledge of those horrors of war that are happening all around the world within hours of them happening. Think about the device the person at the other end is using to send that information to you. Those devices didn't come out of your Bible. Those devices came from scientists and engineers.
If God had really wanted his workers to spread his word, why didn't he have Jesus provide instructions for building a printing press? And don't say it was because people back then couldn't read. God could have made teaching people to read a new commandment.
If you were observant, for the time of Christ? God planted him right at the big crossroads of the earth the area of Israel everything would and did spread from there across the face of the earth. No need for a printing press. Science is mentioned in the bible back into the OT. That doesn't mean some or most of science interpretation isn't bunk. I'll agree that we get 24hrs news feeds for the globe now.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 21:28:07 GMT -5
Which "sins" do you have in mind?
Just as Dan said for a start, men sleeping with men and women sleeping with women. That is wrong before the living God. Why did God make 1,500 plus different animals with homosexual behavior? www.discoverwildlife.com/animal-facts/can-animals-be-gay
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Post by Dan on Jan 4, 2024 23:22:34 GMT -5
You obviously haven't been watching much news lately? The folks in the Ukraine and Gaza aren't likely seeing the kinder better world that you've envisioned.. But your right, I don't like sins that violate nature. And your right, I can't stop it, but I have faith that one day God will put an end to all of it.
The horrors of war are not new. What is new is the global communication of that horror. Think about that TV or computer or smartphone or whatever device you are using that allows you to have the knowledge of those horrors of war that are happening all around the world within hours of them happening. Think about the device the person at the other end is using to send that information to you. Those devices didn't come out of your Bible. Those devices came from scientists and engineers.
If God had really wanted his workers to spread his word, why didn't he have Jesus provide instructions for building a printing press? And don't say it was because people back then couldn't read. God could have made teaching people to read a new commandment.
Modern conveniences don't make the world any more safe of less evil. The gospel was initially spread and inspired by witnesses, miracles, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. A printing press would not have been adequate, but even so, the early church had the gospel letters and the OT. Not everyone could read, but they could hear. I suspect God wanted His word publicly declared and taught, and not just written down.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 23:34:05 GMT -5
Confusion of pheromones...ever had a dog smell a female in heat then try and hump your leg? Confused not nature really...
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Post by maryhig on Jan 5, 2024 5:16:58 GMT -5
We're humans not animals! Animals have a lower understanding, and we do not have the lower intelligence of animals. A dog can barely understand a human except for a few words. And we can't understand the mind of God unless he gives us revelation. But we should know that it's wrong to do a gay act where dirt comes out of, where we dispose of faeces from the body! Come on, it's a filthy thing to do! Gay sex is an unatural act, and is wrong before the living God.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 5, 2024 6:11:39 GMT -5
We're humans not animals! Animals have a lower understanding, and we do not have the lower intelligence of animals. A dog can barely understand a human except for a few words. And we can't understand the mind of God unless he gives us revelation. But we should know that it's wrong to do a gay act where dirt comes out of, where we dispose of faeces from the body! Come on, it's a filthy thing to do! Gay sex is an unatural act, and is wrong before the living God. That's not the only man's excretory organ that can be used for sex. Some people think that's dirty too.
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Post by rk0atheist on Jan 5, 2024 6:39:28 GMT -5
Which "sins" do you have in mind?
All listed in scripture or referred too...you are not aware of the religious do's and don'ts?
I heard about something called Ten Commandments. Off the top of my head I don't remember if that is Old Testament or New Testament. I have heard about legal fights in backward areas of the U.S. where some Christians think they should push their religion on everyone by posting these Christian Ten Commandments in public schools and public courthouses.
But as I understand it, Christians don't stop with just the Ten Commandments. They add stuff on the fly about killing gay men and about how women should be treated that are not included in those Ten Commandments. Basically, Christians make up whatever they feel like making up when the mood strikes them. Look at Nathan, he's invented his own hybrid religion by blending the Christian Bible and a science fiction story. Points for creativity.
Here's mine: Thou shalt not break any Law of Physics.
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Post by rk0atheist on Jan 5, 2024 6:43:46 GMT -5
If you were observant, for the time of Christ?
No, I wasn't there. Were you there?
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Post by rk0atheist on Jan 5, 2024 6:52:50 GMT -5
The horrors of war are not new. What is new is the global communication of that horror. Think about that TV or computer or smartphone or whatever device you are using that allows you to have the knowledge of those horrors of war that are happening all around the world within hours of them happening. Think about the device the person at the other end is using to send that information to you. Those devices didn't come out of your Bible. Those devices came from scientists and engineers.
If God had really wanted his workers to spread his word, why didn't he have Jesus provide instructions for building a printing press? And don't say it was because people back then couldn't read. God could have made teaching people to read a new commandment.
Modern conveniences don't make the world any more safe of less evil. The gospel was initially spread and inspired by witnesses, miracles, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. A printing press would not have been adequate, but even so, the early church had the gospel letters and the OT. Not everyone could read, but they could hear. I suspect God wanted His word publicly declared and taught, and not just written down.
Ah! This is what I have been wanting! I had hoped it would be with Nathan but I now see that will not happen. I'll talk with you. Let's talk about Christianity in the first century. I shared my timeline. Snow pointed to: Timeline of the Catholic Church en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Catholic_ChurchI would like to see your timeline. Can you start with Cephas?
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Post by maryhig on Jan 5, 2024 10:07:01 GMT -5
We're humans not animals! Animals have a lower understanding, and we do not have the lower intelligence of animals. A dog can barely understand a human except for a few words. And we can't understand the mind of God unless he gives us revelation. But we should know that it's wrong to do a gay act where dirt comes out of, where we dispose of faeces from the body! Come on, it's a filthy thing to do! Gay sex is an unatural act, and is wrong before the living God. That's not the only man's excretory organ that can be used for sex. Some people think that's dirty too. It's wrong Bob, what they are doing is not only against nature but it's wrong before God. It's vulgar and filthy.
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Post by rk0atheist on Jan 5, 2024 10:12:18 GMT -5
That's not the only man's excretory organ that can be used for sex. Some people think that's dirty too. It's wrong Bob, what they are doing is not only against nature but it's wrong before God. It's vulgar and filthy.
When you live in a world without indoor plumbing, everything is filthy.
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