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Post by Hello to all on Jul 24, 2007 19:34:35 GMT -5
I saw that several other people have introduced themselves (in an annoymous way) so I felt it may be time to come out of the closet a bit myself.
I am not a member of this organization, but when I was an undergraduate student I worked for a woman who was an ex. She was one of the most wonderful people I have ever known--intelligent, nice--I could go on and on! Over time, our friendship grew and she confided to me a bit about her childhood--which was quite repressed -- it was a miracle what she overcame to become the person that she is today. Well, I was fascinated (I have always had an interest in cults). She gave me a few things to read (very few--one was a newspaper article).
Anyway, I left her to go to graduate school and we are out of touch now. But I am fascinated by this cult I continued to research them until I found this website and I read here often.
I did think it may be fun to introduce myself.
My religious background is that my family was quite wealthy and self indulgent--many times on Sunday we would be out lying around the pool and my mother would say--aren't you glad we are doing this instead of sitting in church? And yes--I agree with her sentiments wholeheartedly so please do not try to convert me!
Please don't try to engage me in conversation about my beliefs etc. I have no intention of getting into conversations with any of you about religion--innies or outies--I am here to observe only.
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Post by Anonymous on Jul 24, 2007 20:55:25 GMT -5
"...I am here to observe only."
Then do not post anything....even your introduction.
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Post by nitro on Jul 24, 2007 21:01:58 GMT -5
Stay in your own world. This board is not for you. Its for those who are healing and finding out the Truth. I for one find your post narcissistic and very prideful and not of any spirit I would want to converse with.
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Post by GoodBye to all on Jul 24, 2007 21:06:46 GMT -5
-----I am here to observe only-----OKAY-----observation over--------Do not post anything here, get back to your indulgent wealthy self and crawl back into the closet..... don't let the door hit you in the caboose.
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Post by randall on Jul 24, 2007 21:14:46 GMT -5
Hello, glad to hear from you. It is interesting that you are curious about this way. This is not the only group of people that proclaim the one true way doctrine. The Holdeman Mennonites are very similar in there spirit as the 2x2s. I enjoy visiting they forum also. You may be interested also.54church of God in Christ Mennonite.
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Post by And yet on Jul 24, 2007 21:21:36 GMT -5
Stay in your own world. This board is not for you. Its for those who are healing and finding out the Truth. I for one find your post narcissistic and very prideful and not of any spirit I would want to converse with. And yet you are conversing. Who is the greater fool - someone who posts claiming to be here just observing or someone conversing with someone they claim they do not want to converse with?
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Post by And yet on Jul 24, 2007 21:22:07 GMT -5
Stay in your own world. This board is not for you. Its for those who are healing and finding out the Truth. I for one find your post narcissistic and very prideful and not of any spirit I would want to converse with. And yet you are conversing. Who is the greater fool - someone who posts claiming to be here just observing or someone conversing with someone they claim they do not want to converse with?
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Post by Hello to all on Jul 24, 2007 21:32:48 GMT -5
Thank you Randall. I also study the Mormons (quite extensively) the Jehovah Witnesses and the Amish. (This is not related to my work--it is just a hobby with mine.
I am sorry that I offended. I am interested in your group from a CULTURAL and SOCIOLOGICAL point of viewpoint only. I wanted to emphasize this as I do not want any to waste their time attempting to convert me.
Also--I am not wealthy--my mother is wealthy. So I grew up with a very enviable lifestyle. However. I am a grown adult in my 30's now and my mother has not supported me since I was 18. We live in different states and she spends most of her money on whoever is her current boy-toy and the high life not on her two children. I doubt there will even be a dime left for me to inherit when that time comes. So there is no need to throw the jealous and hate at me. I just wanted you to know how I grew up and that I was never particularly religious which may be why I am fascinated by such unique groups although I have no similar background of belief and no desire to join.
I do not want any trouble with you. I just saw several people were introducing themselves--and I wanted you to know that not everyone here is a member or an ex. I do not care to influence you nor do I want to be influenced by you. I am just interested in reading more about the unique culture of this cult group. However you feel about it, probably will not make a difference to me, I will only go away if I get bored. I just felt a need to make myself known.
I have the highest personal regards for my friend who was raised in this. And I am truly interested in groups such as this. I just wanted to make myself known and say Hi.
I do not plan to participate in your conversations, as I really have nothing to say. I have no questions for you--everything I need is already here to read. I just wanted you to be aware of my presence.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Jul 24, 2007 21:34:32 GMT -5
Welcome, Hello. You will find many very VERY friendly, loving people here and many....who are...ermmmmm. not so much. Happy observing. *goes back to not conversing with you.* M.
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Post by randall on Jul 24, 2007 21:34:55 GMT -5
Nitro,I see you are a 5 star general on this board . You sure do have a voice of authority. And what a lovely spirit you have. I am wondering if your spirit developed while you was in the gospel or if it came later. I ask in honesty.
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Post by Hello to all on Jul 24, 2007 21:42:46 GMT -5
I meant that I would not converse regarding the religion.
However if you want to ask me about myself or anything else--I will be happy to oblige. I did not mean to be rude.
I just really come here to read about a culture that I know little about. I do not care to be drawn into theological, doctrinal debates etc. I just find the customs (such as convention which I have read a lot about lately) fascinating.
However, as a complete irreligious outsider I do not feel that I have anything relevant to offer to religious conversations.
I really want to be friendly--if you are interested in anything else. But otherwise I will just watch.
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Post by freespirit on Jul 24, 2007 21:58:24 GMT -5
hello. peace, freespirit
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Post by nitro on Jul 24, 2007 22:00:14 GMT -5
but when I was an undergraduate student I worked for a woman who was an ex. She was one of the most wonderful people I have ever known--intelligent, nice--I could go on and on! Over time, our friendship grew and she confided to me a bit about her childhood--which was quite repressed -- it was a miracle what she overcame to become the person that she is today. Well, I was fascinated (I have always had an interest in cults). She gave me a few things to read (very few--one was a newspaper article).
Anyway, I left her to go to graduate school and we are out of touch now. But I am fascinated by this cult I continued to research them until I found this website and I read here often.
I did think it may be fun to introduce myself.
My religious background is that my family was quite wealthy and self indulgent--many times on Sunday we would be out lying around the pool Just a wanna be Wanting to be seen as well educated and lots of money. Why he didn't even need to put all that in. Its when we called him out on it he stated he was not wealthy or should I say "quite wealthy". Randall I noticed you have only 10 post. It was as if it was broken English is this your second language? Your 10 post and my five stars mean nothing to God we are all his children and the ground on Calvary is a level playing field. We all have a cross to bare
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Post by jh62 on Jul 24, 2007 22:21:35 GMT -5
Welcome to the board "Hello to all"!
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Post by diet coke on Jul 24, 2007 22:29:55 GMT -5
"Hello", we're here to converse about religion. That's what this board is.
Thing about religion is, you can study it but you can't understand it unless you experience it. It is the Spirit that we feel within religion that makes it a deep topic for us. For a lesser but comparable experience, try listening to Bach off-and-on while sitting on a lonely sunshiny mountaintop overlooking the ocean for an hour. Even most exes will admit that they felt the spirit within the 2x2 religion.
So, while we argue and cuss at each other and complain and wonder if God is really out there, we are bound together by an unexplainable feeling from which we can't escape.
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Post by Hello to all on Jul 24, 2007 23:26:36 GMT -5
"Hello", we're here to converse about religion. That's what this board is. Thing about religion is, you can study it but you can't understand it unless you experience it. It is the Spirit that we feel within religion that makes it a deep topic for us. For a lesser but comparable experience, try listening to Bach off-and-on while sitting on a lonely sunshiny mountaintop overlooking the ocean for an hour. Even most exes will admit that they felt the spirit within the 2x2 religion. So, while we argue and cuss at each other and complain and wonder if God is really out there, we are bound together by an unexplainable feeling from which we can't escape. I am not interested in religious experience sorry--that just isn't my thing. However, I have been reading here for a long time--and most of the stuff here is right down my ally--which is the cultural stuff (taboos, restrictions, habits). That is what I am interested in and I find plenty of it here. I have always been fascinated by this stuff--why do Mormons have special underwear? That is the kind of thing I am interested in. And there is plenty here to draw me. I read all your websites and have read most of the books. Perhaps some part of it can be explained by wanting to understand someone who I truly loved. I appreciate those who welcomed me. I will shut my mouth now unless anyone wants to know more about me. A bio: I am fascinating (really). I am a single never married straight man in my 30's living in San Francisco. I am quite germ-phobic and have too many health problems weird personality things to list (think of me as a Jerry Seinfeld type). I have severe carpel tunnel so I couldn't participate here much if I wanted to. I have a masters degree from UC Berkeley in Public Health--I work for the State of California and my specialty is safe and ergonomic work environments--specifically I evaluate risks from exposure to loud noises in the workplace. That may sound grand, (and like showing off to Nitro) but I can assure you that a junior state worker in California does not make a huge amount. And the cost of living in SF is very high. It is true that my mother inherited a very large amount of money from her parents, and since then she has devoted her life to trying to spend every dime of it. She does not support me. I have a younger sister who is married with two children. Oh yes-I was an Eagle Scout--I am still very proud of this it may be my greatest accomplishment to date. I also was a drummer in an industrial band for many years--resulting in both my carpel tunnel and my fascination with loud noises. And I have a great fascination with cults--particularly this one. My name is Chris. That says just about everything.
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Post by diet coke on Jul 25, 2007 0:42:39 GMT -5
Chris, I take offense to you, a person who has no idea what religion is all about, calling my friends and family a cult. I put up with it from ex-members who have had bad experiences. But it is still a 4-letter word having no purpose (in the religious world) except to ridicule differing beliefs, and (in the non-religious world) to describe a group of people who are able to experience things that you are not.
The Mormons wear special underwear because their church fathers tell them to. They experience the Spirit in their way, and because people tend to relate that spiritual experience to mean they are right with God, they assume that the way they were raised is God's true way. So they wear clean underwear, and we wear our hair in buns. It's not that complicated. But all of the things you are "studying" about our religions are irrelevent surface quirks.
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Post by Hello to all on Jul 25, 2007 1:25:55 GMT -5
Well I only had two sociology classes, but I was taught that when a group tightly controls behavioral aspects that it can be considered a cult. (The group doesn't have to be religious--The Hitler Youth was a non-religious cult).
If you control the behavior, then you control the person. This is a psychological fact.
If a group has inane rules in place to govern behaviour (for example what sort of undies to wear) then I feel it is not out of line to use the term cult.
However, I can understand how an adherent may object (and you are correct, Mormon do believe that their underwear has magical qualities and that wearing it brings them closer to God's will.) I am not trying to make fun of these practices, I find them fascinating. But when I hear such things I definitely consider them a big red flag--such red flags indicate a _______ to me.
(You can fill in the blank however you wish, I won't use the C word as it seems to offend you).
I would be proud if I were you. It is very cool to have such an unusual and unique heritage and come from a cultural background. However, very few non-members will ever share or understand this background. The few inside have each other family and friends.
That must feel very lonely sometimes, especially for those who leave. Because when they tell their story--who can truly understand it? Only others who have left.
I am really not that unique or different, although I spent my life trying to be. My friend had unique and different as her birthright--but I never could understand her the way I wanted to.
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Post by ranman77007 on Jul 25, 2007 2:41:47 GMT -5
Thank you Randall. I also study the Mormons (quite extensively) the Jehovah Witnesses and the Amish. (This is not related to my work--it is just a hobby with mine. I am sorry that I offended. I am interested in your group from a CULTURAL and SOCIOLOGICAL point of viewpoint only. I wanted to emphasize this as I do not want any to waste their time attempting to convert me. Also--I am not wealthy--my mother is wealthy. So I grew up with a very enviable lifestyle. However. I am a grown adult in my 30's now and my mother has not supported me since I was 18. We live in different states and she spends most of her money on whoever is her current boy-toy and the high life not on her two children. I doubt there will even be a dime left for me to inherit when that time comes. So there is no need to throw the jealous and hate at me. I just wanted you to know how I grew up and that I was never particularly religious which may be why I am fascinated by such unique groups although I have no similar background of belief and no desire to join. I do not want any trouble with you. I just saw several people were introducing themselves--and I wanted you to know that not everyone here is a member or an ex. I do not care to influence you nor do I want to be influenced by you. I am just interested in reading more about the unique culture of this cult group. However you feel about it, probably will not make a difference to me, I will only go away if I get bored. I just felt a need to make myself known. I have the highest personal regards for my friend who was raised in this. And I am truly interested in groups such as this. I just wanted to make myself known and say Hi. I do not plan to participate in your conversations, as I really have nothing to say. I have no questions for you--everything I need is already here to read. I just wanted you to be aware of my presence. Luk 19:5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Jul 25, 2007 3:53:51 GMT -5
I didn't mean that last sentence the way it prolly sounded either..kinda..snotty like. LOL I like to be friendly too. If you ever do just wanna chat, but not about religion..pop over to the Wordly board..as it's called..>I don't see it that way... and post about pretty much anything. Kind of like off topic for this board.... Nice to meet you... M.
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Post by gloryintruth on Jul 25, 2007 6:38:19 GMT -5
[Someone Wrote] Well I only had two sociology classes, but I was taught that when a group tightly controls behavioral aspects that it can be considered a cult. (The group doesn't have to be religious--The Hitler Youth was a non-religious cult).
Despite being flattered to be considered a cultural phenomenon because I am a professing Christian, I actually find the treatment of the Church as a sociological curiosity akin to the Hitler Youth to be extremely demeaning. Moreover, the use of the term "cult" - an issue that both sectarian camps (professing and ex) have bashed to death over the past years on this forum - and is not something I want to see revisited.
Obviously I take a dim view to being considered a "cultist", with its attendant baggage of the stereotyped ignorant, uneducated, easily manipulated moron.
[Someone Wrote] If you control the behavior, then you control the person. This is a psychological fact.
Pop-sociology applied out of context.
[Someone Wrote] If a group has inane rules in place to govern behaviour (for example what sort of undies to wear) then I feel it is not out of line to use the term cult.
Just like all those expensive restaurants who insist on a dress-code. Amazing how the so-called defining elements of a "cult" can be so easily applied to elements of general living taken for granted by most people.
[Someone Wrote] However, I can understand how an adherent may object (and you are correct, Mormon do believe that their underwear has magical qualities and that wearing it brings them closer to God's will.)
This has been untrue for almost a hundred years of Mormon history. I, of course, have significant objections to Mormon beliefs and practices - I believe they are unorthodox - but I have never stooped to spraying inaccuracies and unresearched urban myths in order to advance my own position. Contrary to the ignorance presented here, Mormons may wear any kind of underwear they choose (and they certainly never attributed these garments "magical" properties - it was part of an early Mormon purity code).
[Someone Wrote] I am not trying to make fun of these practices, I find them fascinating. But when I hear such things I definitely consider them a big red flag--such red flags indicate a _______ to me.
I have often said on this forum that we are all entitled to our own opinion, but not to our own facts. If you believe such out-dated and inaccurate distortions of Mormon history, then you are certainly liable to be misled in other areas.
[Someone Wrote] I am really not that unique or different, although I spent my life trying to be. My friend had unique and different as her birthright--but I never could understand her the way I wanted to.
Good grief! Save us from the existentially challenged.
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Post by websters on Jul 25, 2007 8:08:34 GMT -5
Webster's Dictionary
N. system of religious worship: pursuit of, or devotion to, some object.
Doest sound negative to me. Unfortunately modern day society has taken it, like everything else has been taken, and screwed the meaning into something else.
If you take this meaning, all religions are a cult. If you take this meaning, all sports are a cult. If you take this meaning, all fan clubs are a cult. If you take this meaning, all hobbies are a cult. etc, etc, etc.
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Post by freespirit on Jul 25, 2007 9:24:05 GMT -5
Well I only had two sociology classes, but I was taught that when a group tightly controls behavioral aspects that it can be considered a cult. (The group doesn't have to be religious--The Hitler Youth was a non-religious cult). If you control the behavior, then you control the person. This is a psychological fact. If a group has inane rules in place to govern behavior (for example what sort of undies to wear) then I feel it is not out of line to use the term cult. well, I'd love to know why adults allow other people to think for them. My mom was quite fond of saying, "God gave you your own little brain, so USE it." So I do... If this group had all that tight of controls I would have been kicked out years ago. Because I don't follow the dress code at all or any other so called "rule" that either doesn't make sense to me or just seems too out there and radical. So, for instance, I don't watch a lot of TV, but I don't turn away from them at airports and call them the devil's box either, because that's just nuts. My goal is to be moderate about stuff and to ask God for guidance on what is and isn't the best thing for me. I disagree that if you control someone's behavior that you control the person. Well, maybe one might control them for a while, but if inside they are stewing and swearing, ultimately the control is going to fail. It is true, however, that sometimes people in this religion belittle, criticize, gossip and offer rather odd opinions. Pretty much just like any other family, organization, church, group of people you run into. But, well, God never said He was going to save us from other people's opinions. I'm thinking that this is one more reason we need to pray a lot, so we won't be blown this way and that by every opinion that comes along. Speaking of opinions , it's my opinion that people often ask the workers about stuff they really ought to be asking God about. Especially if it relates to their marriage or their children. Unfortunately, the workers (unmarried and childless) take it upon themselves sometimes to answer and then you really do have the blind leading the blind unless you've got a really special worker on your hands. That's just my observation of course. How funny to be studied like a group of bugs. peace to all, freespirit
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2007 10:08:07 GMT -5
Chris wrote:
"I would be proud if I were you. It is very cool to have such an unusual and unique heritage and come from a cultural background. However, very few non-members will ever share or understand this background. The few inside have each other family and friends."
Interesting comment Chris, and a lot of truth to it. Our background is indeed "unusual and unique", and nothing to really be ashamed about. In fact, a certain pride of the heritage does exist amongst many members, probably not greatly unlike Jewish pride or gay pride.
There are some cultural experiences that will never be known to most people in society. An example is when I was once in a business situation far from home. My client was obviously, by her traditional "look", a member of the church. When I identified my like membership, her demeanor went from slightly dour and wary to estatic and sisterly. It was like turning a switch from off to on with this complete stranger. This is the kind of thing that you are probably fascinated by Chris, and will not likely ever experience. It is probably difficult for most of us to understand your fascination as we were brought up with these kinds of experiences as commonplace.
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Post by A Mormon on Jul 25, 2007 10:23:06 GMT -5
I know a lot of Mormons personally. I am not a Mormon, but I come from a Mormon background.... my parents were Mormon before they professed. I know Jack Mormons as well as very devoted Mormons. Most of my extended family are Mormon.
Some of the devoted ones have indeed told me that their temple garments (underwear) is believed to protect their bodies as well as keep their bodies sacred. Sex, marriage and family is considered very sacred to them. Especially if they have been married for eternity in their temples.
Hello to all is not wrong here!
BTW, Hello! I'm glad to meet you even if other's find offense by what you say. Nothing wrong with wealthy background........
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Post by mrleo on Jul 25, 2007 10:40:27 GMT -5
Chris - hello and welcome to the TMB. Thanks for sharing so much about yourself.
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Post by Peacemaker on Jul 25, 2007 11:01:06 GMT -5
Hello to all I guess that you are thinking to yourself. 'what a friendly lot, where is the Spirit of Christ within them?' Let me apologise for the reception you got, in my opinion it was not justified. There is very little evidence of 'soft answers' on here; I'll tell you something, Daniel fared much better in the lion's den, and God was with him; perhaps if God was with you also you would have fared better, just a thought. Here is a warning advice to all who contemplate posting on here, before you do so, throw your hat in first and see what jumps on it. Sometimes it really saddens me :(how some of those that are 'in' and some of those that are 'out' behave on this Board. I wonder what God thinks about all this, it must surely grieve His Spirit. I am no angel myself but, for goodness sake, be more polite and civil to each other. Please contol your hurt, your anger, your distrust or whatever bothers you. LOVE is the Kingdom's banner, is it not?
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Post by Hello to all on Jul 25, 2007 11:26:23 GMT -5
I am at work where I can't take time to answer you but will come back for a while tonight. I will probably be on my computer around 5 to 630 my time. I have plans for later in the evening so I can't stay long tonight. I will try to get to know you better then.
Thank you to those who were nice and welcoming!
I feel like one of those people who go to AA and have to admit my name is X and I am an alcoholic. In this case my name is Chris and I find you interesting. Sure I don't belong and I don't think I would ever want to, but I still think you are interesting.
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