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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 28, 2020 2:24:35 GMT -5
It is by some definitions, Wally. if lying(and i am not admitting that i have in my previous post)is blasphemy then no one is saved.... Lying, if it concerning the territory of the Holy Spirit, is considered blasphemy by a lot of religious people -- and in some legal codes that forbid blasphemy. But I, like you apparently, don't care to stretch the meaning all that far.
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Post by Annan on Jan 28, 2020 5:57:00 GMT -5
I KNOW what is real and unreal... It's you athiests and those like you don't believe it because of your doubts, and unbelief will be your down fall. *** Well you're the only one. (Sarcasm in case you didn't know.)
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Post by snow on Jan 28, 2020 13:45:19 GMT -5
Since their hells don't frighten you nor do you believe in them, you now have a very good idea about how atheists feel about your heaven and hell. They don't frighten us in the least because they don't exist for us just like the Hindu and Muslim heavens and hells don't exist for you. ** I was raised as a Buddhist so I know and read about their 18 levels of HELL and the Hindus has similar hell. So, I am aware of hell since I was a young boy and after I accept Jesus he offers heaven/his home and to those that believe in Him. It was a great sign of relief to me to know Jesus came from heaven to offer His home to those who believe in him. Buddhist have nirvana which sounds rather nice. Hindus believe in a cycle of lives in order to become perfect enough to get out of the cycle and enter a state of enlightenment Moksha. From there they go to Loka the ultimate heaven that sounds not much different from the Christian/Muslim and Buddhist version of heaven. All offer paradise in the end, no suffering etc.
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Post by snow on Jan 28, 2020 13:58:15 GMT -5
snow . The fact that other animals who are purpose-bred for human consumption are fed plants means that infinite more plants are processed for those who eat meat than those who consume only a plant-based diet. So unless we stop eating everything and intend to die, ceasing the consumption of other animals saves both plants and the animals. The Dean of LifeScience at Tel Aviv University was asked if plants feel pain: "Plants don't have pain receptors. Plants have pressure receptors that allow them to know when they're being touched or moved—mechanoreceptors. It's a specific nerve cell". And this article helps to put plant consumption into perspective: eatplantsdrink.... I know that plants don't have a nervous system as we do or a brain but studies have shown that they do react when a caterpillar bites it's leaf. So they definitely have some sort of system that triggers the plant to feel the bite and it also showed that it secretes a stress hormone. Thought this article was interesting. allthatsinteresting.com/plants-defense-mechanismHowever, just to be clear, I am not advocating against eating plants and I am also not advocating against eating animals. What I would like to see with animals though is a more humane way to deal with all of it. I guess I just don't see things quite the same as you. I see this world as one of evolution where we have been carnivorous and herbivores for a very long time in our evolution. It's the way the world works. All animals hunt and kill to survive. Just because our civilization has grown so that it's impractical for all of us to hunt and kill our food, therefore having a process for it, doesn't mean that we've really evolved all that much. If everything we eat feels pain in some way and we think that's a reason to quit eating it, then no one would survive long.
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Post by snow on Jan 28, 2020 14:16:29 GMT -5
Her clarification about how it is a metaphor also makes no sense. “praying for evil plans to be foiled in her congregants’ lives.” Well no one accuse her of actually being all that intelligent. And lying doesn't seem to bother her either. When confronted about raising money for her ministry by telling people they will be blessed when they donate, she made the comment 'I might have said that in the past, I am not the same person as I was in my 20'30' and 40's" Yet last January she did exactly that when she told all her followers to donate their first year pay check and it would result in God blessing them. Short memory or selective memory???
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Post by snow on Jan 28, 2020 14:24:02 GMT -5
We all KNOW the planet Venus is REAL because we can SEE it with our own eyes. Therefore, heaven, God and Christ are REAL not our own figment imagination.I'm utterly speechless. Seriously. Gives us all a pretty good understanding of his thought processes when deciding what to believe though. I don't think it's something he can change. It's seems to be the way his brain is wired. His beliefs really aren't any more far fetched than others that involve belief in invisible beings in the sky that love you but just can't seem to stop you from going to their created place called hell.
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Post by joanna on Jan 28, 2020 18:11:19 GMT -5
snow . Thank you for sharing that interesting article. Its information seemed consistent with the Tel Aviv Uni Professor (in the earlier link) who identifies the plant reaction as being due to depolarisation. He also stated that plants are not cognisant. Nor are they sentient. Climate science is proving that when we save other animals from suffering, we will increase the chance of saving the Earth and ourselves. A good example of Karma? (though i don't generally buy that concept) Sheep and cows do not kill others. Yet they are slaughtered en masse for human consumption. Killing a young healthy animal is not humane. Chinese and other Asians eat dogs, and when we come to understand that there is no difference between a sheep, a cow, a dog or a human being, we also prove we can be healthy without eating other animals. After a 2x2 Sunday morning meeting, one of my children (when very young as we were soon to be ex 2x2) asked "why the people talk about Jesus being like a sheep then they eat lambs for dinner?" Sometimes children are the most insightful and best teachers.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 28, 2020 18:25:13 GMT -5
@after a 2x2 Sunday morning meeting, one of my children (when very young as we were soon to be ex 2x2) asked "why the people talk about Jesus being like a sheep then they eat lambs for dinner?" Sometimes children are the most insightful and best teachers. Now THAT is what happens when one thinks he is "calling a spade a spade". Something like when they sing about "more precious than Ruby's canned beans." You need a spade? There's a spade.
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Post by chuck on Jan 28, 2020 20:09:28 GMT -5
It's a nickname! what a copout!. Its not the "TRUTH wally, Its hypocrisy as it is a lie. Far from what your claiming it to be. still not blasphemy JW.... The point is wally the self proclaimed exclusivity breeds arrogance to the belief you not only hold the rights to salvation you also esteem yourselves(me included) to be equal to if not the Christ himself with this "TRUTH" name that 2x2's love to boast. It's embarrassing to say the least, its un scriptural like many 2x2 claims, a blatant lie, and hypocrisy at the highest level.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 20:14:41 GMT -5
still not blasphemy JW.... The point is wally the self proclaimed exclusivity breeds arrogance to the belief you not only hold the rights to salvation you also esteem yourselves(me included) to be equal to if not the Christ himself with this "TRUTH" name that 2x2's love to boast. It's embarrassing to say the least, its un scriptural like many 2x2 claims, a blatant lie, and hypocrisy at the highest level. if you had had been paying attention i said i was not exclusive in that regard...the Truth is the best way but not the only way....and its still not blasphemy so you lied and broke your own rule...
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Post by chuck on Jan 28, 2020 20:28:45 GMT -5
The point is wally the self proclaimed exclusivity breeds arrogance to the belief you not only hold the rights to salvation you also esteem yourselves(me included) to be equal to if not the Christ himself with this "TRUTH" name that 2x2's love to boast. It's embarrassing to say the least, its un scriptural like many 2x2 claims, a blatant lie, and hypocrisy at the highest level. if you had had been paying attention i said i was not exclusive in that regard...the Truth is the best way but not the only way....and its still not blasphemy so you lied and broke your own rule... It is blasphemis you will just never admit it. You can't otherwise everything you believe (2x2ism) is a lie. I've been there 😁. Evertime you use Truth you claim exclusivity. Only one can claim that, are you Jesus?.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 20:37:06 GMT -5
if you had had been paying attention i said i was not exclusive in that regard...the Truth is the best way but not the only way....and its still not blasphemy so you lied and broke your own rule... It is blasphemis you will just never admit it. You can't otherwise everything you believe (2x2ism) is a lie. I've been there 😁. Evertime you use Truth you claim exclusivity. Only one can claim that, are you Jesus?. Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. if we can't have any part in Truth how can we follow this verse...nice try though JW
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Post by chuck on Jan 28, 2020 20:54:00 GMT -5
It is blasphemis you will just never admit it. You can't otherwise everything you believe (2x2ism) is a lie. I've been there 😁. Evertime you use Truth you claim exclusivity. Only one can claim that, are you Jesus?. Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. if we can't have any part in Truth how can we follow this verse...nice try though JW Totally unrelated. Explain the link between this and calling yourselves something you are not. Explain how this say's/teaches you can call yourselves the "TRUTH"(JESUS)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 21:04:46 GMT -5
Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. if we can't have any part in Truth how can we follow this verse...nice try though JW Totally unrelated. Explain the link between this and calling yourselves something you are not. Explain how this say's/teaches you can call yourselves the "TRUTH"(JESUS) i see it went over your head...read it again JW nice try though....
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Post by joanna on Jan 28, 2020 21:11:20 GMT -5
chuck . You state Jesus is the truth. How can you prove this?
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Post by Roselyn T on Jan 28, 2020 22:16:21 GMT -5
Totally unrelated. Explain the link between this and calling yourselves something you are not. Explain how this say's/teaches you can call yourselves the "TRUTH"(JESUS) i see it went over your head...read it again JW nice try though.... Still showing your wonderful Christian love I see @wally !! Amazing how you don't show the same tough love to your mate nathan when he posts inner earth rubbish !!
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Post by chuck on Jan 29, 2020 3:36:35 GMT -5
chuck . You state Jesus is the truth. How can you prove this? Jesus teaches the best way to live your life.
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Post by chuck on Jan 29, 2020 4:51:19 GMT -5
Totally unrelated. Explain the link between this and calling yourselves something you are not. Explain how this say's/teaches you can call yourselves the "TRUTH"(JESUS) i see it went over your head...read it again JW nice try though.... Yep your explanation of how these verses justify calling yourselves the "TRUTH"(JESUS) did go over my head, or maybe like I said, totally unrelated from the point of discussion. Calling yourselves what you are not!.
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Post by snow on Jan 29, 2020 13:52:31 GMT -5
chuck . You state Jesus is the truth. How can you prove this? Jesus teaches the best way to live your life. So does the Buddha. In fact much of the good part of what Jesus said looks suspiciously Buddhist in origin.
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Post by mountain on Jan 30, 2020 8:33:57 GMT -5
Adam also partook of the fruit when offered by Eve so what was it she got Adam to do? It was something which altered his character from a 100% submissive being to God, to one which opened up his human nature to human understanding, knowing good and evil. It was a kind of mark of the beast, but one which still allowed mankind to be redeemed to God, whereas the prophesied mark of the beast to come, is one where redemption will not be possible once partaken. God did not want us to be governed by our human nature. We were to be 100% obedient to him. Human nature is guided by sight, whereas the spiritual nature is guided by faith and in turn obedience.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 30, 2020 12:00:49 GMT -5
@after a 2x2 Sunday morning meeting, one of my children (when very young as we were soon to be ex 2x2) asked "why the people talk about Jesus being like a sheep then they eat lambs for dinner?" Sometimes children are the most insightful and best teachers. Now THAT is what happens when one thinks he is "calling a spade a spade". Something like when they sing about "more precious than Ruby's canned beans." You need a spade? There's a spade. Or singing, “Andy walks with me. Andy talks with me.” Boy asks his mom, “Mom, who is Andy?” She replies, “I don’t know. Why do you ask?” He says, “We sang about him in church this morning.” 😃
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 30, 2020 12:06:56 GMT -5
still not blasphemy JW.... The point is wally the self proclaimed exclusivity breeds arrogance to the belief you not only hold the rights to salvation you also esteem yourselves(me included) to be equal to if not the Christ himself with this "TRUTH" name that 2x2's love to boast. It's embarrassing to say the least, its un scriptural like many 2x2 claims, a blatant lie, and hypocrisy at the highest level. I think that calling themselves “the Truth” was meant to be taken just as you’re taking it! But many of us didn’t or still don’t understand that! Just like the lie that “this” has been since before the world began. It is Jesus who is the one that was before the world began. Both ways says it’s considered they are Christ or are standing in the place of Christ. Which is somewhat true because the workers stand between each individual and Christ, which is not the way it was meant to be. For Jesus destroyed that middle wall of partition between individuals and God!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 30, 2020 13:07:57 GMT -5
Adam also partook of the fruit when offered by Eve so what was it she got Adam to do? It was something which altered his character from a 100% submissive being to God, to one which opened up his human nature to human understanding, knowing good and evil. It was a kind of mark of the beast, but one which still allowed mankind to be redeemed to God, whereas the prophesied mark of the beast to come, is one where redemption will not be possible once partaken. God did not want us to be governed by our human nature. We were to be 100% obedient to him. Human nature is guided by sight, whereas the spiritual nature is guided by faith and in turn obedience. OK, Ram, -but if god really wanted us to be innocent and NOT be "governed by our human nature," -WHY did he put "the tree of the knowledge of good & evil" smack dab in the MIDDLE of the "garden" where we would have to be walking around & seeing every time we moved?
Also if God did NOT want us to be governed by our "human nature," (sexual nature) -just how the hell were we to follow HIS other commandment?
Genesis 9:7 …"God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:..."
Sounds as if God set us up purposely to fail!
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Post by mountain on Jan 30, 2020 15:46:34 GMT -5
It was something which altered his character from a 100% submissive being to God, to one which opened up his human nature to human understanding, knowing good and evil. It was a kind of mark of the beast, but one which still allowed mankind to be redeemed to God, whereas the prophesied mark of the beast to come, is one where redemption will not be possible once partaken. God did not want us to be governed by our human nature. We were to be 100% obedient to him. Human nature is guided by sight, whereas the spiritual nature is guided by faith and in turn obedience. OK, Ram, -but if god really wanted us to be innocent and NOT be "governed by our human nature," -WHY did he put "the tree of the knowledge of good & evil" smack dab in the MIDDLE of the "garden" where we would have to be walking around & seeing every time we moved?
Also if God did NOT want us to be governed by our "human nature," (sexual nature) -just how the hell were we to follow HIS other commandment?
Genesis 9:7 …"God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:..."
Sounds as if God set us up purposely to fail! Firstly, I'm sure that you will agree that eating rice has the ability to reduce one's hunger pangs, at least in part? Hopefully we can reach agreement on this very point and thus having begun a harmonious journey together, we might reach further understandings? God wants us to serve him through our own free will and obedience. He wants our love. This is properly expressed through free will gestures. Proper free will gestures require tests and trials to prove they are indeed what they appear to be. Is our love for God greater than those other things which might attract our attention? When God created man in his own image, in his likeness created he him, it was his desire that man would follow a Godly life, just like God does. We were to be images of the one true God. However, God knew that man would ultimately fail when tested, so he had to provide a redemption plan. God's procreation plan was after man failed. Pre-failure, man fulfilled the criteria that God was looking for, 100% obedience, a condition some scholars reckon laster for up to 100 years. Human nature then had man following the desires of his human nature which had replaced his spiritual nature (ps don't you ever listen to Virgs?). God did not set us up purposely to fail, but knew that we would ultimately. It's been a tough road ever since to get man to seek that original Adamaic condition of living by every word that proceeds out of God's mouth, Just as Jesus told the naughty guy c.2000 years ago when he was tempted. I don't know if I can add much to that? Perhaps Nathan can give you a data download to peruse? Finally, do you agree that during World War II the German armed forces had bases in occupied Europe? If so, then, provided you accept that rice can relieve the symptoms of hunger, we will have enjoyed a journey where we have begun in agreement and ended in agreement, even if the journey in between may be challenging. Often it is how you start and how you finish that makes all the difference and the part in between can be discarded!
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 30, 2020 17:33:17 GMT -5
chuck . You state Jesus is the truth. How can you prove this? Jesus teaches the best way to live your life. Jesus said he is the way, THE TRUTH and the life.
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Post by joanna on Jan 30, 2020 18:01:31 GMT -5
joanna You state Jesus is the truth. How can you prove this? chuck . There are infinite numbers of people who do not believe in, or follow Jesus and yet live ethical lives. There are many Christians who commit crimes including the sexual abuse of children. Other Christians spend their judging alternate Christian sects and arguing over the Trinity; Grace and other biblical points. If Jesus is an effective teacher, then why is there so much confusion and antipathy amongst Christians?
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Post by nathan on Jan 30, 2020 18:58:26 GMT -5
snow . Thank you for sharing that interesting article. Its information seemed consistent with the Tel Aviv Uni Professor (in the earlier link) who identifies the plant reaction as being due to depolarisation. He also stated that plants are not cognisant. Nor are they sentient. Climate science is proving that when we save other animals from suffering, we will increase the chance of saving the Earth and ourselves. A good example of Karma? (though i don't generally buy that concept) Sheep and cows do not kill others. Yet they are slaughtered en masse for human consumption. Killing a young healthy animal is not humane. Chinese and other Asians eat dogs, and when we come to understand that there is no difference between a sheep, a cow, a dog or a human being, we also prove we can be healthy without eating other animals. After a 2x2 Sunday morning meeting, one of my children (when very young as we were soon to be ex 2x2) asked "why the people talk about Jesus being like a sheep then they eat lambs for dinner?" Sometimes children are the most insightful and best teachers. *** Jesus is NOT a sheep, he had the sheep nature at His first coming like a lamb led to slaughter/Calvary without crying. God create animals for nourishment and energy to our bodies but he also create Vegetable for those don't like to eat meat. God gives us humans varieties of choices when it comes to eating.
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Post by joanna on Jan 30, 2020 19:04:34 GMT -5
joanna Chinese and other Asians eat dogs, and when we come to understand that there is no difference between a sheep, a cow, a dog or a human being, we also prove we can be healthy without eating other animals. After a 2x2 Sunday morning meeting, one of my children (when very young as we were soon to be ex 2x2) asked "why the people talk about Jesus being like a sheep then they eat lambs for dinner?" Sometimes children are the most insightful and best teachers. nathan . It comes down to Empathy Nathan. If we identify that someone has a nature akin to a sheep and is thus willingly led to the slaughter without murmuring - then we have identified that sheep are gentle and easily led. For the Christian to have reconciled that both Jesus and sheep had / have a gentle and willing nature, and to then consume the flesh of these gentle sheep reveals cognitive dissonance. If you do not know what sheep experience when bred for human consumption, you may choose to learn from Sheep Cruelty
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