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Post by snow on Jan 13, 2020 11:57:36 GMT -5
Yes there were only 12 apostles appointed. The 70 were disciples (ordinary believers) who went out on a mission trip and returned after a short time. Many people do that still today. They go on a Mission trip for a few weeks and come home. They go on beach missions over the summer holidays or overseas on a short Mission. The reason the 2x2s are confused about this is because they believe people have to give up all and go permanently as a worker. There are different types of missions. Read what the Bible really says rather than trying to fit it into the workers box. How about Matthias in Acts 1 who replaced Judas, he was appointed as an apostle. And How about Barnabas and Paul? Weren't they called apostles in Acts 13:1-2 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them... Acts 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, And HOW about Paul called Silas and Timothy as apostles like himself. I Thess. 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 2:6-7 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ. But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children: Paul made himself an apostle. He wasn't made an apostle at all.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 11:58:42 GMT -5
Wasn't Paul to replace Judas? no matthias was.... That was Peter’s idea. Jesus appointed Paul as he had the first 12 Apostles.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 12:04:51 GMT -5
Wasn't Paul to replace Judas? Many think so since he was personally chosen by Jesus and as Paul said out of his own time.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 12:05:25 GMT -5
How about Matthias in Acts 1 who replaced Judas, he was appointed as an apostle. And How about Barnabas and Paul? Weren't they called apostles in Acts 13:1-2 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them... Acts 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, And HOW about Paul called Silas and Timothy as apostles like himself. I Thess. 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 2:6-7 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ. But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children: Paul made himself an apostle. He wasn't made an apostle at all. But he was chosen personally by Jesus.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 12:09:35 GMT -5
Seems your reading comprehension is not very good, Wally. In Luke 9, it says that “Jesus called his twelve disciples together...” Luke 10 it says , “After these things the Lord appointed OTHER 70 DISCIPLES ALSO,...” The 70 disciples were not disciples but followed the pattern of the 70 elders in Exodus 24:1, 9 and Numbers 11:16. Numbers 11:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, THAT THEY MAY STAND THERE WITH THEE. Verse 17: And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and THEY SHALL BEAR THE BURDEN OF THE PEOPLE WITH THEE, THAT THOU BEAR IT NOT THYSELF ALone. your references yielded little result for a comparison...read your bible... I read my Bible, Wally. That’s how I got the verses above. Can you never admit you were wrong. Those 70 were not apostles, Jesus did not call them apostles. They were fashioned after the 70 elders in Numbers “to help bear the burden”, as those 70 elders were appointed to help Moses bear the burden. I’ve heard that said over and over again by workers and other ministers. Their mission was very temporary as far as Jesus’ intentions were concerned.
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Post by snow on Jan 13, 2020 12:10:18 GMT -5
Revelation 21:14 NIV "The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb". It says the 12 apostles, not the first 12 or 70 disciples who went on a brief mission but 12. The other places where apostles are mentioned other than the 12 were 'sent ones', not apostles in the true sense. They are called missionaries today or the 2x2s call them workers. Although some people call themselves apostles it does not make them one. The number 12 is a symbol of faith, the church and divine rule. The number 12 features prominently in the Bible. The Old Testament Book of Genesis states there were 12 sons of Jacob and those 12 sons formed the 12 tribes of Israel. The New Testament tells us that Jesus had 12 apostles. www.quora.com › What is the biblical meaning of the number 12? - Quora The number 12 wasn't just important in Christianity but other pagan religions too. It was the sacred number for other belief systems. We also have the example of the 12 signs of the Zodiac the 12 Greek Gods that were worshiped etc. It is also considered the beginning and the singularity of the universe. It has been used in many different religious beliefs
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 12:12:53 GMT -5
Again, not by your choice? 😉 No, but he probably thinks he's winning more converts. He doesn't understand that because he thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread so he probably thinks he complimenting us in some way. Ah well, if by some chance there is a heaven it's nice to know that I don't need to believe in it to get there. He does seem to think that we need to do good things though because he mentions following our conscience. So atheists loving and doing what is right just because it's the right thing to do will get in according to the Pope. I'm not sure he's doing me any favors though. I was really looking forward to it being The End. I’ve heard it said he even has said that Muslims are going to Christian heaven. He’s working hard to become the one world religion and maybe the one world ruler.
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Post by snow on Jan 13, 2020 12:13:06 GMT -5
*** Well, NOT according to God the Father and Christ who gave a good list of people are NOT going to ENTER the old and NEW heaven Read Rev.21: 6-7. Yes but what does God know!? The Pope is God's representative on earth so he should know right? Oh the irony.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 12:13:31 GMT -5
Revelation 21:14 NIV "The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb". It says the 12 apostles, not the first 12 or 70 disciples who went on a brief mission but 12. The other places where apostles are mentioned other than the 12 were 'sent ones', not apostles in the true sense. They are called missionaries today or the 2x2s call them workers. Although some people call themselves apostles it does not make them one. The number 12 is a symbol of faith, the church and divine rule. The number 12 features prominently in the Bible. The Old Testament Book of Genesis states there were 12 sons of Jacob and those 12 sons formed the 12 tribes of Israel. The New Testament tells us that Jesus had 12 apostles. www.quora.com › What is the biblical meaning of the number 12? - Quora The number 12 wasn't just important in Christianity but other pagan religions too. It was the sacred number for other belief systems. We also have the example of the 12 signs of the Zodiac the 12 Greek Gods that were worshiped etc. It is also considered the beginning and the singularity of the universe. It has been used in many different religious beliefs I’ve heard it’s the number of complete?
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Post by snow on Jan 13, 2020 12:13:44 GMT -5
Paul made himself an apostle. He wasn't made an apostle at all. But he was chosen personally by Jesus. Said Paul.
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Post by snow on Jan 13, 2020 12:15:12 GMT -5
No, but he probably thinks he's winning more converts. He doesn't understand that because he thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread so he probably thinks he complimenting us in some way. Ah well, if by some chance there is a heaven it's nice to know that I don't need to believe in it to get there. He does seem to think that we need to do good things though because he mentions following our conscience. So atheists loving and doing what is right just because it's the right thing to do will get in according to the Pope. I'm not sure he's doing me any favors though. I was really looking forward to it being The End. I’ve heard it said he even has said that Muslims are going to Christian heaven. He’s working hard to become the one world religion and maybe the one world ruler. Well Catholics are leaving in droves according to the papers. Who knows if it's actually true. I don't think he's in the running for a world ruler.
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Post by snow on Jan 13, 2020 12:16:28 GMT -5
The number 12 wasn't just important in Christianity but other pagan religions too. It was the sacred number for other belief systems. We also have the example of the 12 signs of the Zodiac the 12 Greek Gods that were worshiped etc. It is also considered the beginning and the singularity of the universe. It has been used in many different religious beliefs I’ve heard it’s the number of complete? I haven't heard that, but I'm sure there is all kinds of things it's said to represent.
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Post by Annan on Jan 13, 2020 12:25:33 GMT -5
Again... Because they don't know the truth, they are going to hell, right? Just like all the other false churches. False teachings equals a false church. So the 2x2 are going to hell. Except you, of course. Where do I say the 2x2s are going to HELL again? in my post... and I will be the ONLY one going to be in heaven again? Don't Keep on saying things that I didn't say in my post, please. You are making a fool out of yourself.
People can change their belief and their understanding... Just like the early days workers believed and taught in the Trinity and Jesus is God. The current workers and friends can change it back if they want to... That is true with the believers in false churches also. I leave the judgment of who are going to heaven or hell to God.I take it that English is not your first language as you seem to miss the nuances and implied meanings of a lot of posters here. I was under the impression that one must be a 2x2 and believe in the trinity and that Jesus lives in Venus to go to heaven. Was I wrong? If I am wrong, then what the heck is all the arguing all about??? You know, Nathan, when you throw insults at others, it brings your claim to being a christian under scrutiny. Perhaps you need to add pettiness to your 'god hates' list.
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Post by nathan on Jan 13, 2020 12:31:12 GMT -5
I always was under the impression there were only 12 apostles and the rest of the appointed were disciples? You’re right. Wally didn’t catch that chapter 9 called the 12 disciples. Then it says in 10 chapter he called 70 other disciples. The 70 disciples are formulated after the 70 elders God appointed to help Moses. ALL Apostles were once disciples/learners. From the group of Jesus disciples he appointed and sent out as apostles= teachers, preachers, pastors, and missionaries into the world to share the good news Jesus SAVES.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 12:34:30 GMT -5
But he was chosen personally by Jesus. Said Paul. The Lord told Ananias who the Lord sent to Saul of Tarsus after Saul was struck blind. The Lord told Ananias “Go thy way, for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name’s sake.” So it must have happened that way for the Lord to get another person involved. Because Ananias did say when he put his hands on Saul, “Brither Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto you in the way thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.”
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 12:44:55 GMT -5
You’re right. Wally didn’t catch that chapter 9 called the 12 disciples. Then it says in 10 chapter he called 70 other disciples. The 70 disciples are formulated after the 70 elders God appointed to help Moses. ALL Apostles were once disciples/learners. From the group of Jesus disciples he appointed and sent out as apostles= teachers, preachers, pastors, and missionaries into the world to share the good news Jesus SAVES. But Luke didn’t call either the 12 Apostles but disciples and when he wrote about the 70 he said it that “the Lord “appointed OTHER 70 also”. It references back to chapter 9:1 where it says “Then he called HIS TWELVE DISCIPLES TOGETHER,...” The writer was talking about “ DISCIPLES “ not APOSTLES. It is just understood when it says “HIS TWELVE DISCIPLES, it’s referring to the 12 disciples whom he’d chosen out of all his disciples and “whom also he named apostles.” Luke 6:13. This makes it understood that Jesus only named the first 12 chosen disciples apostles. Any other called “apostle” are loosely so called but not by Jesus.
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Post by nathan on Jan 13, 2020 12:48:40 GMT -5
*** Well, NOT according to God the Father and Christ who gave a good list of people are NOT going to ENTER the old and NEW heaven Read Rev.21: 6-7. Yes but what does God know!? The Pope is God's representative on earth so he should know right? Oh the irony. *** The Pope is NOT God appointed or His reprentative on earth. You need to read the millions of Christians believers they have tortured, burned alive at stakes and killed for almost 2000 yrs. Do you believe God appointed the RCC to kill His own children?
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Post by nathan on Jan 13, 2020 12:52:47 GMT -5
ALL Apostles were once disciples/learners. From the group of Jesus disciples he appointed and sent out as apostles= teachers, preachers, pastors, and missionaries into the world to share the good news Jesus SAVES. But Luke didn’t call either the 12 Apostles but disciples and when he wrote about the 70 he said it that “the Lord “appointed OTHER 70 also”. It references back to chapter 9:1 where it says “Then he called HIS TWELVE DISCIPLES TOGETHER,...” The writer was talking about “ DISCIPLES “ not APOSTLES. It is just understood when it says “HIS TWELVE DISCIPLES, it’s referring to the 12 disciples whom he’d chosen out of all his disciples and “whom also he named apostles.” Luke 6:13. This makes it understood that Jesus only named the first 12 chosen disciples apostles. Any other called “apostle” are loosely so called but not by Jesus. ** I have explained to you for years IF you were to read in the original TEXT in Luke 10: 1-2 the word apostles was used! The translators KJ era translated as the word SENT. Jesus sent=apostle or sent forth the other 70 in Luke 10:1-2.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 12:57:31 GMT -5
I’ve heard it’s the number of complete? I haven't heard that, but I'm sure there is all kinds of things it's said to represent. I was looking up about the 144,000 reserved children of Israel and it was summarizing that 12 tribes were represented though Dan is left out and Joseph gets a double portion through Manasseh. That there are 12,000 from each 12 tribes which equals the 144,000. Thus meaning a completion. Some say it’s figurative but I believe it’s actual. But at what stage I’m not sure. I’m wondering if that number is not those who come into the Messianic Jews before the rapture. Because it says during the tribulation that only a 1/3 rd of the Jews will survive and then ALL of Israel shall be saved. Which means if the rapture and tribulation were to take place in the very near future, Israel says they presently have 3 million Jews in Israel. Which means that only a million will survive the tribulation. However, some Jews are saying that all Jews will have returned to Israel before the tribulation. So that’d put the surviving Jews way above 1 million. Some say the 144,000 is the number of Christ witnesses that’ll be on the earth during the tribulation. But it’s my understanding that no Christ believers will be left on the earth during the tribulation because the Holy Spirit has to be removed from the face of the earth.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 12:59:01 GMT -5
Yes but what does God know!? The Pope is God's representative on earth so he should know right? Oh the irony. *** The Pope is NOT God appointed or His reprentative on earth. You need to read the millions of Christians believers they have tortured, burned alive at stakes and killed for almost 2000 yrs. Do you believe God appointed the RCC to kill His own children? I think the RCC has done what a lot of manmade groups have done, what even the Jews did in OT, they’ve turned away from God.
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Post by Grant on Jan 13, 2020 13:01:45 GMT -5
The number 12 wasn't just important in Christianity but other pagan religions too. It was the sacred number for other belief systems. We also have the example of the 12 signs of the Zodiac the 12 Greek Gods that were worshiped etc. It is also considered the beginning and the singularity of the universe. It has been used in many different religious beliefs I’ve heard it’s the number of complete? And there are 12 months of the year.
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Post by Grant on Jan 13, 2020 13:07:45 GMT -5
But Luke didn’t call either the 12 Apostles but disciples and when he wrote about the 70 he said it that “the Lord “appointed OTHER 70 also”. It references back to chapter 9:1 where it says “Then he called HIS TWELVE DISCIPLES TOGETHER,...” The writer was talking about “ DISCIPLES “ not APOSTLES. It is just understood when it says “HIS TWELVE DISCIPLES, it’s referring to the 12 disciples whom he’d chosen out of all his disciples and “whom also he named apostles.” Luke 6:13. This makes it understood that Jesus only named the first 12 chosen disciples apostles. Any other called “apostle” are loosely so called but not by Jesus. ** I have explained to you for years IF you were to read in the original TEXT in Luke 10: 1-2 the word apostles was used! The translators KJ era translated as the word SENT. T Jesus sent=apostle or sent forth the other 70 in Luke 10:1-2. He sent 70 disciples on a short mission. They were not full time ministers of the Gospel. As I said earlier, many people go on a short mission trip for a few weeks.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 13:08:00 GMT -5
But Luke didn’t call either the 12 Apostles but disciples and when he wrote about the 70 he said it that “the Lord “appointed OTHER 70 also”. It references back to chapter 9:1 where it says “Then he called HIS TWELVE DISCIPLES TOGETHER,...” The writer was talking about “ DISCIPLES “ not APOSTLES. It is just understood when it says “HIS TWELVE DISCIPLES, it’s referring to the 12 disciples whom he’d chosen out of all his disciples and “whom also he named apostles.” Luke 6:13. This makes it understood that Jesus only named the first 12 chosen disciples apostles. Any other called “apostle” are loosely so called but not by Jesus. ** I have explained to you for years IF you were to read in the original TEXT in Luke 10: 1-2 the word apostles was used! The translators KJ era translated as the word SENT. Jesus sent=apostle or sent forth the other 70 in Luke 10:1-2. The facts still remain, that Jesus only named the first chosen 12 disciples, Apostles. Any other so called apostles are so called loosely. Thus when the Word “Apostles “ is mentioned it is intended to refer to the first 12 disciples whom Jesus also named Apostles.
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Post by Annan on Jan 13, 2020 13:15:20 GMT -5
Do you believe God appointed the RCC to kill His own children? God sure did direct a lot of killing in the Old Testament. Perhaps the RCC is simply the long arm of the law?
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Post by Annan on Jan 13, 2020 13:20:20 GMT -5
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Post by nathan on Jan 13, 2020 13:27:03 GMT -5
Where do I say the 2x2s are going to HELL again? in my post... and I will be the ONLY one going to be in heaven again? Don't Keep on saying things that I didn't say in my post, please. You are making a fool out of yourself.
People can change their belief and their understanding... Just like the early days workers believed and taught in the Trinity and Jesus is God. The current workers and friends can change it back if they want to... That is true with the believers in false churches also. I leave the judgment of who are going to heaven or hell to God. I take it that English is not your first language as you seem to miss the nuances and implied meanings of a lot of posters here. I was under the impression that one must be a 2x2 and believe in the trinity and that Jesus lives in Venus to go to heaven. Was I wrong? If I am wrong, then what the heck is all the arguing all about??? You know, Nathan, when you throw insults at others, it brings your claim to being a christian under scrutiny. Perhaps you need to add pettiness to your 'god hates' list. ** That is God's list which He hates, not mine. You need to talk to Him in the day of judgment. I don't think you want Him to share His mind about His 45 things which he hates. I didn't say to the 2x2s they have to KNOW the TRINITY or TO believe in Jesus from interior plant of Venus to be Saved. .
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Post by mountain on Jan 13, 2020 13:30:18 GMT -5
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Post by nathan on Jan 13, 2020 13:30:28 GMT -5
** I have explained to you for years IF you were to read in the original TEXT in Luke 10: 1-2 the word apostles was used! The translators KJ era translated as the word SENT. T Jesus sent=apostle or sent forth the other 70 in Luke 10:1-2. He sent 70 disciples on a short mission. They were not full time ministers of the Gospel. As I said earlier, many people go on a short mission trip for a few weeks. *** You THINK! The 12 apostles enough preachers to reach to all nations in the next 2000 yrs when most of them had died by the end of the 1st century! Your kind of math doesn't add up according to Jesus teachings.
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