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Post by Grant on Jan 13, 2020 3:06:38 GMT -5
According to your post Nathan, it seems like the very core of your fellowship is broken but it is likely that your posts have caused many to question and leave the fellowship. Your information on the history of your church is plain wrong and your posts that Jesus lives on Venus and that the planets are hollow, are false and off putting to many. I do wonder if you have ever had any tertiary education as some university papers on research skills would not go amiss. People are not so gullible these days and can see the Truth for themselves. If the workers were honest to start with then the websites and information would not cause many to leave. You putting out false information is undoing some of the corrections the workers are trying to make. Time will tell who is wrong, and gullible the exes or me that Jesus indeed is from the Interior planet of Venus. Like MANY of the U.S. high ranking in the White House official and presidents of U.S. KNOW Jesus is a VISITOR from the planet Venus too! Your post says it all. Imagine how off putting that is to people reading here both in and outside the fellowship. Do you really think they would take much notice of what you write except to question what those in the fellowship believe.
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Post by Grant on Jan 13, 2020 3:10:13 GMT -5
I know that the workers consider all the brother workers to be apostles, and the sister workers to be "helpers". But I have always heard that the 12 were apostles, and those who followed were disciples -- the term disciples is used for followers even today. FWIW That is what Ive heard from several different Christian ministers. Generally speaking there were only 12 Jesus-named Apostles and any named apostles thereafter were loosely so called apostles. Of course it’s thought there was a thirteenth Apostle but no one knows whether that’s Mathias or Paul. I’m thinking it’s Paul because he is the Apostle for the Gentile church. There are only 12 apostles mentioned in Revelations.
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Post by chuck on Jan 13, 2020 3:38:39 GMT -5
Well I guess you need that story otherwise the 2x2 is a lie. Stop making stuff up. Chuck, the 70 were disciples/followers but Jesus had chosen them to be His apostles/preachers and teachers. Did you know the word apostle means SENT forth just like the 12 in Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
So, Chuck Jesus sent= apostles sent other seventy and Barnabas was one of the 70 that took Paul in the ministry Acts 11:25
Do you believe there were ONLY 12 apostles that Jesus sent out, Chuck?
12 plus Paul. The rest were not apostles of Christ.
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Post by chuck on Jan 13, 2020 3:40:57 GMT -5
Only 12 were designated apostles. Stop making stuff up. How about Matthias in Acts 1 who replaced Judas. And How about Barnabas and Paul? Weren't they called apostles?
You need to read your Bible more carefully, Chuck.Barnabas was a apostle of the church of Antioch. Stop making things up.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 3:58:30 GMT -5
That is what Ive heard from several different Christian ministers. Generally speaking there were only 12 Jesus-named Apostles and any named apostles thereafter were loosely so called apostles. Of course it’s thought there was a thirteenth Apostle but no one knows whether that’s Mathias or Paul. I’m thinking it’s Paul because he is the Apostle for the Gentile church. Paul named himself an apostle. You mean ..like Nathan did, the self-appointed online worker?
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Post by Grant on Jan 13, 2020 4:29:28 GMT -5
Wasn't Paul to replace Judas?
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Post by Roselyn T on Jan 13, 2020 4:38:09 GMT -5
Paul named himself an apostle. You mean ..like Nathan did, the self-appointed online worker? The self appointed online worker who thinks he knows it all !!! But still hasn't worked out that the 2x2 church does not believe the "rubbish" he believes !!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 6:06:30 GMT -5
12 apostles also 70 more....read your bible... Seems your reading comprehension is not very good, Wally. In Luke 9, it says that “Jesus called his twelve disciples together...” Luke 10 it says , “After these things the Lord appointed OTHER 70 DISCIPLES ALSO,...” The 70 disciples were not disciples but followed the pattern of the 70 elders in Exodus 24:1, 9 and Numbers 11:16. Numbers 11:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, THAT THEY MAY STAND THERE WITH THEE. Verse 17: And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and THEY SHALL BEAR THE BURDEN OF THE PEOPLE WITH THEE, THAT THOU BEAR IT NOT THYSELF ALone. your references yielded little result for a comparison...read your bible...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 6:07:30 GMT -5
Wasn't Paul to replace Judas? no matthias was....
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Post by nathan on Jan 13, 2020 6:25:45 GMT -5
Time will tell who is wrong, and gullible the exes or me that Jesus indeed is from the Interior planet of Venus. Like MANY of the U.S. high ranking in the White House official and presidents of U.S. KNOW Jesus is a VISITOR from the planet Venus too! Your post says it all. Imagine how off putting that is to people reading here both in and outside the fellowship. Do you really think they would take much notice of what you write except to question what those in the fellowship believe. Well, How many current workers and the friends do you KNOW and believe Jesus is God? and He lives in Interior planet of Jesus. How many do you KNOW Current Christians believe Jesus lives in Venus? Hardly anyone. Does that change the FACT? Do you think I care what they think/believe on this subject, I DON'T THINK SO! The Truth lives on.
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Post by nathan on Jan 13, 2020 6:27:30 GMT -5
Wasn't Paul to replace Judas? no matthias was.... THESE EXES don't KNOW and UNDERSTAND their Bible or Scriptures and here they try to TEACH others about it. How Pathetic this is.
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Post by nathan on Jan 13, 2020 6:33:12 GMT -5
How about Matthias in Acts 1 who replaced Judas. And How about Barnabas and Paul? Weren't they called apostles?
You need to read your Bible more carefully, Chuck. Barnabas was a apostle of the church of Antioch.
Stop making things up. WHO appointed Barnabas as the apostle the Church at Antioch? If there were ONLY 12 apostles that Jesus appointed, Chuck. I thought you believe there WERE ONLY 12 apostles and the 70 were disciples.
But NOW, you believe Barnabas was an apostle of the Church at Antioch. I don't READ Barnabas name among the 12 apostles. How then Barnabas became an Apostle of the Church at Antioch, Chuck.
Do you KNOW what you teach is false. I am NOT making things up! Your lacking in understanding of the Scriptures are showing to all.
Please, try to READ and study your Bible more carefully if you want to TEACH others.
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Post by nathan on Jan 13, 2020 6:56:52 GMT -5
That is what Ive heard from several different Christian ministers. Generally speaking there were only 12 Jesus-named Apostles and any named apostles thereafter were loosely so called apostles. Of course it’s thought there was a thirteenth Apostle but no one knows whether that’s Mathias or Paul. I’m thinking it’s Paul because he is the Apostle for the Gentile church. There are only 12 apostles mentioned in Revelations. The book of Revelation mention the 12 foundations/gates and Names of 12 apostles the New Jerusalem city of God. It doesn't say there WERE ONLY 12 apostles! In Acts 1 Matthias replaced Judas apostleship after he hanged himself. Paul was chosen by the resurrected Jesus in Acts 9 as another Apostle. There were more apostles than just the 12 that Jesus appointed.
The Holy Spirit has been appointed others as apostles Silas, John Mark, Luke, Timothy, Silas and list is growing and many more apostles= preachers, teachers, pastors, ministers, missionaries to ALL nations through the centuries EVEN in our own generation and so on to continue to the time of Jesus RETURNS.
Paul wrote in I Cor. 15:1-14 15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
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Post by Annan on Jan 13, 2020 7:05:32 GMT -5
Don't worry. When I find out who changes something, I'll tell you about it. DON'T bother, BobW. I will go back and put you on ignore list once again for a long time. I am not going to waste my time and energy with you.... Go merry round, go to nowhere.Reminds me of an ostrich burying it's head in the sand.
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Post by Annan on Jan 13, 2020 7:06:55 GMT -5
It makes no sense that you call yourself a 2x2 when they do not believe what you claim is truth. How is that any different than any other church? They don't know your truth either. Like I said the 2x2s believe it but they don't KNOW it, yet. That is why I want to share the truth on the Internet so it will reach thousands, millions in a few min. to all the world.
Most of the workers and the friends have NEVER heard about the Vaudois who had similar belief, teaching like the 2x2s for 1800 yrs before the 2x2s in 1898.So because the 2x2's don't know the truth yet, they are going to hell like all the other false churches, right?
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Post by Annan on Jan 13, 2020 7:13:59 GMT -5
Your post says it all. Imagine how off putting that is to people reading here both in and outside the fellowship. Do you really think they would take much notice of what you write except to question what those in the fellowship believe. Well, How many current workers and the friends do you KNOW and believe Jesus is God? and He lives in Interior planet of Jesus. How many do you KNOW Current Christians believe Jesus lives in Venus? Hardly anyone. Does that change the FACT? Do you think I care what they think/believe on this subject, I DON'T THINK SO! The Truth lives on.Again... Because they don't know the truth, they are going to hell, right? Just like all the other false churches. False teachings equals a false church. So the 2x2 are going to hell. Except you, of course.
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Post by chuck on Jan 13, 2020 8:59:41 GMT -5
Your making stuff up wally. i think thats your realm of expertise not mine JW.... One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God.When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles:Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew,Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot,Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor. - Luke 6:12-16 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke6:12-16&version=NIVScriptural. Your rubbery explanation wasn't.
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Post by nathan on Jan 13, 2020 9:57:50 GMT -5
Like I said the 2x2s believe it but they don't KNOW it, yet. That is why I want to share the truth on the Internet so it will reach thousands, millions in a few min. to all the world.
Most of the workers and the friends have NEVER heard about the Vaudois who had similar belief, teaching like the 2x2s for 1800 yrs before the 2x2s in 1898. So because the 2x2's don't know the truth yet, they are going to hell like all the other false churches, right? Where do I say in my post that the 2x2s are going to HELL because they don't KNOW the existence of the Vaudois before them for 1800 yrs.
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Post by nathan on Jan 13, 2020 10:02:18 GMT -5
Well, How many current workers and the friends do you KNOW and believe Jesus is God? and He lives in Interior planet of Jesus. How many do you KNOW Current Christians believe Jesus lives in Venus? Hardly anyone. Does that change the FACT? Do you think I care what they think/believe on this subject, I DON'T THINK SO! The Truth lives on. Again... Because they don't know the truth, they are going to hell, right? Just like all the other false churches. False teachings equals a false church. So the 2x2 are going to hell. Except you, of course. Where do I say the 2x2s are going to HELL again? in my post... and I will be the ONLY one going to be in heaven again? Don't Keep on saying things that I didn't say in my post, please. You are making a fool out of yourself.
People can change their belief and their understanding... Just like the early days workers believed and taught in the Trinity and Jesus is God. The current workers and friends can change it back if they want to... That is true with the believers in false churches also. I leave the judgment of who are going to heaven or hell to God.
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Post by Grant on Jan 13, 2020 10:21:59 GMT -5
Revelation 21:14 NIV "The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb". It says the 12 apostles, not the first 12 or 70 disciples who went on a brief mission but 12. The other places where apostles are mentioned other than the 12 were 'sent ones', not apostles in the true sense. They are called missionaries today or the 2x2s call them workers. Although some people call themselves apostles it does not make them one. The number 12 is a symbol of faith, the church and divine rule. The number 12 features prominently in the Bible. The Old Testament Book of Genesis states there were 12 sons of Jacob and those 12 sons formed the 12 tribes of Israel. The New Testament tells us that Jesus had 12 apostles. www.quora.com › What is the biblical meaning of the number 12? - Quora
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Post by snow on Jan 13, 2020 11:43:33 GMT -5
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 11:48:11 GMT -5
Wasn't Paul to replace Judas? It’s a guess. However Jesus did appoint Paul himself and according to what I’ve read, to be a true Apostle a person had to be appointed personally by Jesus. Peter appointed one of the seventy because he thought it needed to be a person who had been a witness of the life and actions of Jesus. But that was Peter’s thought.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 11:49:16 GMT -5
Again, not by your choice? 😉
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Post by snow on Jan 13, 2020 11:49:19 GMT -5
Only 12 apostles wally. The workers are only apostles of their overseers. it says: appointed other seventy also, also being a key word here meaning in addition to the 12 from the previous chapter 9, he gave them some of the same powers and the same instructions in chapter 10 I always was under the impression there were only 12 apostles and the rest of the appointed were disciples?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 11:51:35 GMT -5
Revelation 21:14 NIV "The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb". It says the 12 apostles, not the first 12 or 70 disciples who went on a brief mission but 12. The other places where apostles are mentioned other than the 12 were 'sent ones', not apostles in the true sense. They are called missionaries today or the 2x2s call them workers. Although some people call themselves apostles it does not make them one. The number 12 is a symbol of faith, the church and divine rule. The number 12 features prominently in the Bible. The Old Testament Book of Genesis states there were 12 sons of Jacob and those 12 sons formed the 12 tribes of Israel. The New Testament tells us that Jesus had 12 apostles. www.quora.com › What is the biblical meaning of the number 12? - Quora But the verse says 12 Apostles of the Lamb. Would that not signify those whom he himself recognized as Apostles?
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Post by snow on Jan 13, 2020 11:53:16 GMT -5
Again, not by your choice? 😉 No, but he probably thinks he's winning more converts. He doesn't understand that because he thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread so he probably thinks he complimenting us in some way. Ah well, if by some chance there is a heaven it's nice to know that I don't need to believe in it to get there. He does seem to think that we need to do good things though because he mentions following our conscience. So atheists loving and doing what is right just because it's the right thing to do will get in according to the Pope. I'm not sure he's doing me any favors though. I was really looking forward to it being The End.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 13, 2020 11:53:47 GMT -5
it says: appointed other seventy also, also being a key word here meaning in addition to the 12 from the previous chapter 9, he gave them some of the same powers and the same instructions in chapter 10 I always was under the impression there were only 12 apostles and the rest of the appointed were disciples? You’re right. Wally didn’t catch that chapter 9 called the 12 disciples. Then it says in 10 chapter he called 70 other disciples. The 70 disciples are formulated after the 70 elders God appointed to help Moses.
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Post by nathan on Jan 13, 2020 11:54:35 GMT -5
*** Well, NOT according to God the Father and Christ who gave a good list of people are NOT going to ENTER the old and NEW heaven Read Rev.21: 6-7.
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