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Post by maryhig on Dec 3, 2019 3:33:31 GMT -5
No, churches do not preach a ministry, they preach Jesus. The Gospel is not Jesus plus a ministry, but "Jesus only is our message". Preaching Jesus is the full Gospel. By your own admission you do not even believe in the Trinity let alone come together to worship it. Churches come together to worship Jesus not a ministry, be it a man made ministry started by a man called William Irvine 120 years ago. Most churches teach their own form of the gospel. With many add ons. That's why there is so many denominations, each one changed by man. There is only one way, and that's the way of Jesus, no add ons, no denominations just one way. And Jesus came and taught and showed us the way to live before God. And his way is the way to follow, not a denomination.
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Post by Grant on Dec 3, 2019 4:01:02 GMT -5
No, churches do not preach a ministry, they preach Jesus. The Gospel is not Jesus plus a ministry, but "Jesus only is our message". Preaching Jesus is the full Gospel. By your own admission you do not even believe in the Trinity let alone come together to worship it. Churches come together to worship Jesus not a ministry, be it a man made ministry started by a man called William Irvine 120 years ago. Most churches teach their own form of the gospel. With many add ons. That's why there is so many denominations, each one changed by man. There is only one way, and that's the way of Jesus, no add ons, no denominations just one way. And Jesus came and taught and showed us the way to live before God. And his way is the way to follow, not a denomination. Why do you fellowship with a certain group known to others as the Cooneyites then? Just because you don't give your group a name, it is still denomination. You do not have those who go out preaching like Edward Cooney did. Why did your church stop doing this?
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Post by maryhig on Dec 3, 2019 4:05:56 GMT -5
Most churches teach their own form of the gospel. With many add ons. That's why there is so many denominations, each one changed by man. There is only one way, and that's the way of Jesus, no add ons, no denominations just one way. And Jesus came and taught and showed us the way to live before God. And his way is the way to follow, not a denomination. Why do you fellowship with a certain group known to others as the Cooneyites then? Just because you dont give your group a name it is still denomination. The difference is, we follow Jesus and the way he lived and taught, not the ways of a denomination. No church add ons and no church ordinances, just the way of Jesus. We read the Bible, and live how Jesus taught us to live.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 7:21:28 GMT -5
Read your bible, pray and be led by the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the resurrection and the life. There is a old sacred hymn that is not in our hymn book anymore but holds much truth. The name of the hymn is “ Live out thy life within me.” A great one to look up and listen to on YouTube.
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Post by nathan on Dec 3, 2019 9:03:35 GMT -5
No, churches do not preach a ministry, they preach Jesus. The Gospel is not Jesus plus a ministry, but "Jesus only is our message". Preaching Jesus is the full Gospel. By your own admission you do not even believe in the Trinity let alone come together to worship it.
~~ I believe you are mistaken, or getting me mixed up with someone, I believe in the Trinity/Triune God and Jesus Christ is God like unto the Father and the Holy Spirit.Churches come together to worship Jesus not a ministry, be it a man made ministry started by a man called William Irvine 120 years ago. The RCC and 40,000 plus denominations do NOT PREACH or have the FULL gospel of Jesus Christ. The ministry Matthew 10 Luke 10, Acts 10 and Romans 10 is very important part of Jesus Christ full gospel. Paul wrote to the Ephesians believers in Eph. 2:19-20 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.
The RCC and 40,000 plus Protestants denominations are fulfilling what Jesus had foretold in Matthew 7:13-28 they preached, did a lot of good works, and performed many miracles in His name but He didn't KNOW them. WHY? He did NOT SENT them and They did their own way and NOT according to His New Testament method he had established and SENT forth according to His Father in heaven, that was to built on the Rock foundation/Jesus teachings.
Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-28 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
~~ I believe and the early days workers believed and taught the TRINITY/Triune God, Jesus is God just like unto God the Father and Holy Spirit. The 2x2s worship the TRINITY but they called it God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son of God and the Holy Spirit. It was the early church fathers who came up with word Trinity/Triune God to describe God the Father, Christ is God, and God the Holy Spirit.
The 2x2 workers in 1950s to the current days do NOT understand that so, they have been preaching and teaching to the friends that The Trinity is heresy and pagans doctrine for 70 yrs. However, there are some workers know the majority of the workers are INCORRECT on believing the Trinity is the devils doctrine and Jesus is NOT God. The pro-Trinity workers, the friends are trying to change this Anti-Trinity stance among us, they are swimming against a BIG current but with God and the Holy Spirit help they will FIXED it for us. So, the full/glorious gospel of Jesus Christ is God/Trinity will be preached again! like the early days workers had preached in the early 1900s.
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Post by nathan on Dec 3, 2019 9:41:52 GMT -5
We have heard on TMB for years from Dennis J. who was a worker in 1960-70s spoke about many early days workers taught Jesus is God. I have posted some sermons of the early days workers preached and believed the TRINITY and Jesus is God also.
~~ Greg L. (ex-worker 1990s) wrote: I cannot recall anyone preaching on God the Son. The closest I heard was one who said Jesus is to God as a bottle of ocean water is to the ocean. As I have stated before, I think if George Walker believed in God the Son he kept it out of his preaching and perhaps rarely shared such with any. As big an impact as he had, if he preached it, others would be preaching the same. The Triune God might be foundational for Christian churches, but it is not for the F&W; fellowship.
~~ Dennis Jacobsen. (ex-worker in 1960s) wrote: Hello Greg. According to Carson Cowan speaking at a convention decades ago, George walker DID teach his companions that God was like a shamrock, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost one, yet all God. According to reports I have heard he did teach this in sermons. And no, I had no reason upon hearing it to document it for it is specifically what Jack Carroll and many others taught and believed. Somewhere in my records once was a copy of Jack's sermon notes, where proof was found of his preaching God to exist as Father Son and Holy Ghost. In every mission from my first, I would point to Jesus as the Word and He existed from the moment GOD first "spoke" later becoming the word made flesh. NEVER ONCE was I corrected for teaching that. NOT ONCE. Also I taught over simplifying there is the Divine Kingdom, Angelic/spirit/demon kingdom, human kingdom, that God Son became human Son of God. Never corrected for that neither though having "Gospel meetings" with about 14 assigned companions, in various states and a couple of countries.
NathanB, sir. On this topic, from what you have expressed, I find myself totally in agreement from nearly 72 years (+ circa 40 due to heritage). Greg, sir. More than "likely so." It came as a shock to me to discover 2&2 preachers and their followers anywhere did not believe as I had been taught, and indeed was one of the things I had to re-examine upon my excommunication. My early contacts and instructors in 2&2 ism simply did believe as Nathan expresses, and many of their names were on the first group of worker listing.
William Irvine, Eddy Cooney, John Long, George Walker, Jack Carroll, Dave Christie, Tom Lyness, Tharold Sylvester, Leo Stancliff, Mable Gibson, Leslie White, Stan Chamberlain, Maurice Close, John Sterling, Everett Blair, John Wegter, Lyle Shoeber, Everett Swanson, Mark Huddle, Alan Richardson, etc.
Do I accept others came along, not believing it? Most absolutely. Do I believe it unfair to state Nathan to be in error regarding it? Equally most absolutely. On this understanding of the nature and personality of God, a supreme being (to me anyway) I once had a copy of Jack Carroll's sermon notes, revealing to me he believed on this subject as Nathan expresses. I knew Tom Lyness believed this, I knew Willie Weir believed this, I knew Mable Gibson believed and taught it.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 10:11:10 GMT -5
No, churches do not preach a ministry, they preach Jesus. The Gospel is not Jesus plus a ministry, but "Jesus only is our message". Preaching Jesus is the full Gospel. By your own admission you do not even believe in the Trinity let alone come together to worship it.
~~ I believe you are mistaken, or getting me mixed up with someone, I believe in the Trinity/Triune God and Jesus Christ is God like unto the Father and the Holy Spirit.Churches come together to worship Jesus not a ministry, be it a man made ministry started by a man called William Irvine 120 years ago. The RCC and 40,000 plus denominations do NOT PREACH or have the FULL gospel of Jesus Christ. The ministry Matthew 10 Luke 10, Acts 10 and Romans 10 is very important part of Jesus Christ full gospel. Paul wrote to the Ephesians believers in Eph. 2:19-20 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.
The RCC and 40,000 plus Protestants denominations are fulfilling what Jesus had foretold in Matthew 7:13-28 they preached, did a lot of good works, and performed many miracles in His name but He didn't KNOW them. WHY? He did NOT SENT them and They did their own way and NOT according to His New Testament method he had established and SENT forth according to His Father in heaven, that was to built on the Rock foundation/Jesus teachings.
Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-28 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
~~ I believe and the early days workers believed and taught the TRINITY/Triune God, Jesus is God just like unto God the Father and Holy Spirit. The 2x2s worship the TRINITY but they called it God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son of God and the Holy Spirit. It was the early church fathers who came up with word Trinity/Triune God to describe God the Father, Christ is God, and God the Holy Spirit.
The 2x2 workers in 1950s to the current days do NOT understand that so, they have been preaching and teaching to the friends that The Trinity is heresy and pagans doctrine for 70 yrs. However, there are some workers know the majority of the workers are INCORRECT on believing the Trinity is the devils doctrine and Jesus is NOT God. The pro-Trinity workers, the friends are trying to change this Anti-Trinity stance among us, they are swimming against a BIG current but with God and the Holy Spirit help they will FIXED it for us. So, the full/glorious gospel of Jesus Christ is God/Trinity will be preached again! like the early days workers had preached in the early 1900s.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 10:12:46 GMT -5
Nathan- it was so wonderful to hear both workers and the friends speak freely of the Godhead at my convention last year. God is at work, and revealing. No one can stay his hand.
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Post by nathan on Dec 3, 2019 10:27:03 GMT -5
Nathan- it was so wonderful to hear both workers and the friends speak freely of the Godhead at my convention last year. God is at work, and revealing. No one can stay his hand. AWESOME! So, good to hear that in the corner of your world. We need more workers and the friends to speak and preach the Godhead FREELY in the gospel meetings, conventions, special meetings, Sunday morning meetings, Wed. night Bible studies!
Elizabethcoleman said: 9/1/2015 This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee...
"Barry Barkley (Overseer of overseers in the east coast of USA) emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament. These thoughts, perhaps, are nothing "new" to the Bible-believing Christian, but I appreciated the spirit and illumination with which Barry presented elements of our hope in the gospel -- and our need and joyous privilege to make Christ the focal point of all our living."
ElizC. wrote: If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"?
~~ NathanB: Wow!... Bary Barkley is the overseer of the overseers in the east coast of USA. He is NOT a rookie worker! I hope Barry B. will encourage his staff to study these things for themselves and speak on Jesus is God/the Son and the TRINITY freely... The early workers who came to America mostly agree Jesus is God and Man. However, the last 70 yrs most 2x2 workers and the friends believe Jesus is the Son of God and NOT God. God refers ONLY to the Father and NOT the Son. Review/worker in NZ believes Jesus is Divine but NOT God. Talking about confusion. Divine means God.
~~ Hi, Reborn... you can post under my quote by going up the upper hand corner where you see the Quote click on that and post your message below, this way it easier to have the post you quote and your message on the same page. Try that next time to see if it works for you. Good luck.
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Post by snow on Dec 3, 2019 12:01:52 GMT -5
But they do believe in Jesus Christ. Everyone I went to meeting did believed in Jesus Christ. Your understanding differs from their's but to say they don't believe in Jesus Christ is not true. They believe in the man Jesus. If and when they say Jesus Christ they have no idea of what that means. That’s what I’m talking about to Nathan. They go through a form of worshipping Jesus as their Saviour, but they don’t realize they are worshipping him for if they believed the Bible that only God can be worshipped, then they are heaping damnation upon their own heads to be worshipping Jesus as only a perfect man! Do you really think it matters? Really? And do you really think they will go to hell because of their understanding? They worship Jesus, therefore they have every right to claim they are Christian or at least followers of Christ. I remember when they didn't associate with the name Christian, but they sure did believe in Christ. You seem to think that God couldn't make a human perfect and therefore divine. The Trinity argument has always been that a human couldn't forgive sins so Jesus must have been a God when he died for everyone's sins. But this doesn't make sense if God is involved he can give a human that ability. In fact that is what he appears to have done. He recognized him as his son because of his ability to be perfect in God's eyes. I don't believe in Gods, but if you believe in an all powerful God, then I think you are limiting him by saying he couldn't make a human that was worthy of forgiving sins.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 3, 2019 12:06:49 GMT -5
They believe in the man Jesus. If and when they say Jesus Christ they have no idea of what that means. That’s what I’m talking about to Nathan. They go through a form of worshipping Jesus as their Saviour, but they don’t realize they are worshipping him for if they believed the Bible that only God can be worshipped, then they are heaping damnation upon their own heads to be worshipping Jesus as only a perfect man! Do you really think it matters? Really? And do you really think they will go to hell because of their understanding? They worship Jesus, therefore they have every right to claim they are Christian or at least followers of Christ. I remember when they didn't associate with the name Christian, but they sure did believe in Christ. You seem to think that God couldn't make a human perfect and therefore divine. The Trinity argument has always been that a human couldn't forgive sins so Jesus must have been a God when he died for everyone's sins. But this doesn't make sense if God is involved he can give a human that ability. In fact that is what he appears to have done. He recognized him as his son because of his ability to be perfect in God's eyes. I don't believe in Gods, but if you believe in an all powerful God, then I think you are limiting him by saying he couldn't make a human that was worthy of forgiving sins. I think my point is the Bible says only God should be worshipped. And some still refuse to be called Christians. Their religion is to be as different from any church on earth as possible.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 3, 2019 12:08:05 GMT -5
Do you really think it matters? Really? And do you really think they will go to hell because of their understanding? They worship Jesus, therefore they have every right to claim they are Christian or at least followers of Christ. I remember when they didn't associate with the name Christian, but they sure did believe in Christ. You seem to think that God couldn't make a human perfect and therefore divine. The Trinity argument has always been that a human couldn't forgive sins so Jesus must have been a God when he died for everyone's sins. But this doesn't make sense if God is involved he can give a human that ability. In fact that is what he appears to have done. He recognized him as his son because of his ability to be perfect in God's eyes. I don't believe in Gods, but if you believe in an all powerful God, then I think you are limiting him by saying he couldn't make a human that was worthy of forgiving sins. I think my point is the Bible says only God should be worshipped. And some still refuse to be called Christians. Their religion is to be as different from any church on earth as possible. It’s the lack of understanding is my vibe at concern, it’s all by rite and traditions..
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Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 3, 2019 12:09:49 GMT -5
Nathan- it was so wonderful to hear both workers and the friends speak freely of the Godhead at my convention last year. God is at work, and revealing. No one can stay his hand. Care to share what convention? The reason I ask because at Effie Convention in Louisiana, USA; they preached 3 different sermons emphatically saying “Jesus is not God.”
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 12:31:22 GMT -5
Wasilla,AK- It is very hard to hear untruth spoken. I always take it as a opportunity to pray for those individuals by name, and of course pray that God again would confirm to me what he himself has taught me. He has never, never failed me.
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Post by Grant on Dec 3, 2019 13:28:49 GMT -5
No, churches do not preach a ministry, they preach Jesus. The Gospel is not Jesus plus a ministry, but "Jesus only is our message". Preaching Jesus is the full Gospel. By your own admission you do not even believe in the Trinity let alone come together to worship it.
~~ I believe you are mistaken, or getting me mixed up with someone, I believe in the Trinity/Triune God and Jesus Christ is God like unto the Father and the Holy Spirit.Churches come together to worship Jesus not a ministry, be it a man made ministry started by a man called William Irvine 120 years ago. The RCC and 40,000 plus denominations do NOT PREACH or have the FULL gospel of Jesus Christ. The ministry Matthew 10 Luke 10, Acts 10 and Romans 10 is very important part of Jesus Christ full gospel. Paul wrote to the Ephesians believers in Eph. 2:19-20 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.
Etc
[/u] I meant to say they (the workers and friends) who attend the meetings don't believe in the Trinity, not you. I know you do. I'm not going to keep going around in circles with you. You can put your faith in men while those in churches will continue to put theirs in Jesus and preach Jesus as the way. The workers are nothing like the apostolic ministry. The workers are pastors over the existing church, not out evangelizing the world like the apostles, evangelists and missionaries.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 13:35:50 GMT -5
Gone are the days when you can make broad sweeping statements about what any one group believes. There are lots of the friends and workers who believe in the Godhead, and more are coming to realization.
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Post by nathan on Dec 3, 2019 13:48:10 GMT -5
Wasilla,AK- It is very hard to hear untruth spoken. I always take it as a opportunity to pray for those individuals by name, and of course pray that God again would confirm to me what he himself has taught me. He has never, never failed me. ** That is so good to hear the west coast is catching on and the friends like you are getting the understanding that Jesus is God. Thanks, for sharing your belief and Revelation about Jesus is God/Divine and He is One of the Godhead= Father, Christ/God and Holy Spirit.
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Post by Grant on Dec 3, 2019 13:50:33 GMT -5
They might use the word Godhead but are they meaning that Jesus is God or just the Son of God?
The word Godhead has a different meaning to different people. To non Trinititarians it just refers to God the Father.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 13:52:34 GMT -5
Godhead means much more than that. I encourage you to study it out further. I don’t use the word Trinity personally, but believe in what it is.
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Post by Grant on Dec 3, 2019 14:04:53 GMT -5
Godhead means much more than that. I encourage you to study it out further. I don’t use the word Trinity personally, but believe in what it is. I am well aware of the meaning of Godhead and attend a Trinity believing church. I have expressed the difference in meanings that people place on the word Godhead. Maybe it's you who needs to study the different meanings for this. Using the word Godhead does not mean they are referring to Jesus being God but for some means that there is one God, the Father.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 14:06:47 GMT -5
I have studied this out and prayed about it- Thank you!
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Post by nathan on Dec 3, 2019 14:27:36 GMT -5
Godhead means much more than that. I encourage you to study it out further. I don’t use the word Trinity personally, but believe in what it is. ** People who don't believe the TRINITY and Jesus is NOT one of the Godhead/Divine run into MANY problems because in the Bible where Jesus Christ and the apostles stated He is God the Word, the IAM that I AM/ God. He is the ALMIGHTY GOD; the Alpha and Omega; the First and Last.
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 3, 2019 19:55:41 GMT -5
Godhead means much more than that. I encourage you to study it out further. I don’t use the word Trinity personally, but believe in what it is. Why don't you use the word trinity reborn ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 3, 2019 19:57:33 GMT -5
Godhead means much more than that. I encourage you to study it out further. I don’t use the word Trinity personally, but believe in what it is. ** People who don't believe the TRINITY and Jesus is NOT one of the Godhead/Divine run into MANY problems because in the Bible where Jesus Christ and the apostles stated He is God the Word, the IAM that I AM/ God. He is the ALMIGHTY GOD; the Alpha and Omega; the First and Last. So why do you belong to the 2x2 church nathan Once again you cannot accept that the church you think is so right DOES NOT believe what you do !!!
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 20:07:00 GMT -5
Good evening R- I’m not sure if you have had the chance to read all the postings here today. It is no longer accurate to make broad sweeping statements about what the friends believe. Many friends and workers have studied out and believe in the Godhead.
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 20:27:07 GMT -5
Godhead means much more than that. I encourage you to study it out further. I don’t use the word Trinity personally, but believe in what it is. Why don't you use the word trinity reborn ? My own personal choice.
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 3, 2019 20:44:00 GMT -5
Why don't you use the word trinity reborn ? My own personal choice. We all know that the reason the word trinity is not used is beacause of the preaching by Workers of it being a "false doctrine" and from the Catholic church. The Workers maybe saying the Godhead....but not the Trinity ! Yes I have read the posts reborn 😊
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Post by reborn on Dec 3, 2019 20:48:17 GMT -5
We all know that the reason the word trinity is not used is beacause of the preaching by Workers of it being a "false doctrine" and from the Catholic church. The Workers maybe be saying the Godhead....but not the Trinity ! The ones I have spoken with totally understand Godhead and Trinity. Some use one , some use both, some believe they are excactly the same. It is beautiful to fellowship with them.
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