|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 18:32:53 GMT -5
Does that advice involve associating with the workers? Well, God lead me to the workers. I personally had my dealing with God first for months before He sent me to see the workers so, I better listened to Him and accept their help. Before Jesus sent out His servants he said in Matthew 10:40 " He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. And in Luke 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me."
Well, it was a VERY good experience with the workers they helped us a lot in many things. Leo S. the senior helped me to Understand Jesus is the LORD Christ/God in the Old Testament! Jesus Christ New Testament ministry, and the Sunday morning worship fellowship with God the Father, Christ/God our Savior and Holy Spirit.
The Sunday morning meetings is a TRINITY fellowship/worship for the believers, that revelation from God came to me a few years ago.
Your experience is valid. However you’ve read where false prophets had slipped in even in Paul’s days.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 8, 2019 18:35:07 GMT -5
No. I'm just trying to remind Nathan than he's not yet been appropriately diagnosed. Diagnosed BY whom? by you, the guy who admits he is CRAZY? as a looney. I haven't diagnosed you. I've only indicted you. You need to see a shrink for a diagnosis.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Dec 8, 2019 18:37:20 GMT -5
Well, God lead me to the workers. I personally had my dealing with God first for months before He sent me to see the workers so, I better listened to Him and accept their help. Before Jesus sent out His servants he said in Matthew 10:40 " He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. And in Luke 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me."
Well, it was a VERY good experience with the workers they helped us a lot in many things. Leo S. the senior helped me to Understand Jesus is the LORD Christ/God in the Old Testament! Jesus Christ New Testament ministry, and the Sunday morning worship fellowship with God the Father, Christ/God our Savior and Holy Spirit.
The Sunday morning meetings is a TRINITY fellowship/worship for the believers, that revelation from God came to me a few years ago.
Does that advice involve ME associating with the workers? Yes, that is according to Jesus teachings you better listen and obey to God the Father and Christ/Jesus or You are TOASTED for eternity.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 8, 2019 18:43:42 GMT -5
Does that advice involve ME associating with the workers? Yes, that is according to Jesus teachings In that case, if you are concerned about my salvation, have you been suggesting to any of the workers that they approach me in kindness? If you answer anything besides "Yes" or "No", I will consider that you don't really want to answer that question.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Dec 8, 2019 18:48:53 GMT -5
Well, God lead me to the workers. I personally had my dealing with God first for months before He sent me to see the workers so, I better listened to Him and accept their help. Before Jesus sent out His servants he said in Matthew 10:40 " He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. And in Luke 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me."
Well, it was a VERY good experience with the workers they helped us a lot in many things. Leo S. the senior helped me to Understand Jesus is the LORD Christ/God in the Old Testament! Jesus Christ New Testament ministry, and the Sunday morning worship fellowship with God the Father, Christ/God our Savior and Holy Spirit.
The Sunday morning meetings is a TRINITY fellowship/worship for the believers, that revelation from God came to me a few years ago.
Your experience is valid. However you’ve read where false prophets had slipped in even in Paul’s days. Yes, I know and have met them during my years in the work but I didn't understand what they were DOING to us. We have seen their work and SAD results had produced among us for the last 70 days! They excommunicated any worker who believed like the early days workers had taught them! The Trinity/Triune God, Jesus is God and LORD like unto the Father. We read John Starkweather, Truitt and his brother Oyler and workers who believed in the TRINITY/ Jesus is God... The overseers excommunicated them because they said the TRINITY was the RCC heresy teaching and 3 gods belief came from Pagan belief.
I was the younger worker in Boozeman, Montana, USA when they excommunicated Truitt from the work in 1990s. Truitt and his brother walter were sitting in our gospel meetings for weeks and monts! We never visited them. It was a BIG MESS, it had broken up and divided up families over excommunication of Truitt. Evertt S. became the overseer, and he chopped too many heads, divided up families that they booted him out of Montana state and sent back to Washington state as a regular worker, so fast that your head spin.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 8, 2019 18:51:24 GMT -5
I like to know truth so I go directly to the source. No sense in wasting my time! Bob- Regarding my faith, I strictly receive truth from God. That is exactly how I know that is is truth! I wonder how many people though out the history of Christianity have said that very same thing , "I strictly receive truth from God. That is exactly how I know that is truth!"
Too numerous to count, -I would think.
Every time someone breaks with the particular religion & starts a new one the founder makes that very claim.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Dec 8, 2019 19:04:27 GMT -5
Well first I would give them medication and if that cleared up the voices, we'd know what caused them I suppose. Sure you just didn’t sedate them?
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 8, 2019 19:06:56 GMT -5
You’re right that’s what it says. But in Luke it’s says Jesus is the Son of the Highest. Hmmmm! 😉 Bob, I think in essence what I said is so. But of course it was a process which is beyond man’s comprehension. However, it seems to me that even a normal impregnated fetus cannot be considered living until that “spirit” from God is instilled into that fertilized egg. It says that God knows us even before we are formed, while we are in the secrets of the lowest parts of the earth. So that seems to me that there is a knowledge of God about our fertilized egg/sperm union where our spirits have been instilled. The difference in Jesus’ is that the spirit instilled in Mary’s womb was the spirit was of an already existing very functioning spirit of God’s eternal Son. Let's remember that the stories of many gods who were "created," "born" or "begotten" were also conceives in much the same kind of scenario as was attributed to Jesus.
Take the Buddha for just one.
Gautama was born to a Hindu Kshatriya family, note the son of Śuddhodana, "an elected chief of the Shakya clan", whose capital was Kapilavastu, and who were later annexed by the growing Kingdom of Kosala during the Buddha's lifetime
Gautama was the family name. His mother, Maya (Māyādevī), Suddhodana's wife, was a Koliyan princess.
Legend has it that, on the night Siddhartha was conceived, Queen Maya dreamt that a white elephant with six white tusks entered her right side, and ten months late Siddhartha was born.
As was the Shakya tradition, when his mother Queen Maya became pregnant, she left Kapilavastu for her father's kingdom to give birth. However, her son is said to have been born on the way, at Lumbini, in a garden beneath a sal tree.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Dec 8, 2019 19:13:16 GMT -5
Yes, that is according to Jesus teachings In that case, if you are concerned about my salvation, have you been suggesting to any of the workers that they approach me in kindness? If you answer anything besides "Yes" or "No", I will consider that you don't really want to answer that question. I don't KNOW what happened between you, your family and with the workers in Calf. I believe both sides hurt each other with accusations from what I read in your posts for years. He said, she said this that... I know you for many years in the past, BobW. through the Internet/on line. We had great time, laughed a lot, you were a wonderful friend to me. Then you went missing for years, and I didn't KNOW what happened to you and your family... Sorry, to hear all the things you went through with the workers. The workers are NOT perfect or angels themselves, I know this from first hand experience in dealing with many of them. You folks had a lot of problems in California with the workers, because I heard about it.
The workers will NEVER apologize to you publicly... some workers might confess and say sorry to you personally. I talked to Pat, who used to be Goonetilika and she spoke very highly of you. I stayed with Pat and her family home for two weeks in Hawaii twice before I came to the mainland.
Just forgive the workers who did wrong to you and your family! The overseer ruined my life, like given me the green light to start in the work in Washington State in 1984 then the workers in our field asked me to speak in the last gospel meeting in Seattle in front of 100s friends. Then I went to preps with them, then the overseer/Tharold told me my name is NOT on the preps at Miltown!
This overseer was the old school kind of a guy! He changed his mind for some crazy reasons so, he sent me a letter that my name not on the list to the wrong address I was no longer living there therefore, I didn't know about it. I went to Preps! we had a good visit and he told me to wait another year and I believed him and waited. Starting again with hardly any money in my pocket, That old didn't even offer to help me.
I went back to my old job, and waited a yr... NO phone call, or letter of anything for One and half year! I prayed to God what should I do? One night in my dream, God said to me, "Go to Oregon! and offer for the work there." I packed up my bag and left Washington state and told Tharold, goodbye!
I went down to Oregon and offered for the work to Howard Mooney and I told him what had happened in Washington State with Tharold and he told me don't worry! There is a place for you in the work in Oregon and I started in the work in Oregon 6 months later at Boring Convention in 1986-93.
Tharold had never apologized to me for his unkindness! I saw him a few time when I was a worker, I just move on. When I became a worker I didn't want to be like Tharold kind of person at all.
|
|
|
Post by reborn on Dec 8, 2019 19:20:06 GMT -5
Bob- Regarding my faith, I strictly receive truth from God. That is exactly how I know that is is truth! I wonder how many people though out the history of Christianity have said that very same thing , "I strictly receive truth from God. That is exactly how I know that is truth!"
Too numerous to count, -I would think.
Every time someone breaks with the particular religion & starts a new one the founder makes that very claim.
Exactly why no one should put their faith in man- God Only. It is possible to know God.
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Dec 8, 2019 19:59:56 GMT -5
I recently read "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakaeur - a book on the history of Mormonism. It is part of Mormon doctrine that all Mormons can get their own revelation directly from God. Founder Joseph Smith soon realised he'd made an error with this teaching which initially justified his own "revelations from God" - his revelations as leader didn't always match the revelations of his followers, and created problems with his authority. Over the years, many Mormons have had "revelations" leading to terrible abuse, violence and bloodshed.
The book focuses on the history of Mormonism and its practice of revelations which led to murders on a number of occasions. Got a problem with someone usurping the will of God? God must want me to kill them - I'm solving the problem for God! (so the thought pattern goes). The voice in someone's head is no sign of legitimacy. The voice in someone's head needs to be thoughtfully considered in the same way we consider each other's verbal and written thoughts. There is absolutely no Biblical mandate to accept the "voice in someone's head" as being true, or as being from God. It is a purely subjective experience.
Nathan - you sound like the victim of an abusive relationship. Abused and rejected by the workers many times in the past, don't believe a lot of what they teach, even contradict what they teach, yet cannot leave the relationship due to long term conditioning.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 8, 2019 20:02:25 GMT -5
In that case, if you are concerned about my salvation, have you been suggesting to any of the workers that they approach me in kindness? If you answer anything besides "Yes" or "No", I will consider that you don't really want to answer that question. I don't KNOW what happened between you, your family and with the workers in Calf. I believe both sides hurt each other with accusations from what I read in your posts for years. He said, she said this that... I know you for many years in the past, BobW. through the Internet/on line. We had great time, laughed a lot, you were a wonderful friend to me. Then you went missing for years, and I didn't KNOW what happened to you and your family... Sorry, to hear all the things you went through with the workers. The workers are NOT perfect or angels themselves, I know this from first hand experience in dealing with many of them. You folks had a lot of problems in California with the workers, I had heard about it.
The workers will NEVER apologize to you publicly... some workers might confess and say sorry to you personally. I talked to Pat, who used to be Goonetilika and she spoke very highly of you. I stayed with Pat and her family home for two weeks in Hawaii twice before I came to the mainland.
Just forgive the workers who did wrong to you and your family! The overseer ruined my life, like given me the green light to start in the work in Washington State in 1984 then the workers in our field asked me to speak in the last gospel meeting in Seattle in front of 100s friends. Then I went to preps with them, then the overseer/Tharold told me my name is NOT on the preps at Miltown!
This overseer was the old school kind of a guy! He changed his mind for some crazy reasons so, he sent me a letter that my name not on the list to the wrong address I was no longer living there therefore, I didn't know about it. I went to Preps! we had a good visit and he told me to wait another year and I believed him and waited. Starting again with hardly any money in my pocket, he didn't even offer to help me.
I went back to my old job, and waited a yr... NO phone call, or letter of anything for One and half year! I prayed to God what should I do? One night in my dream, God said to me, "Go to Oregon! and offer for the work there." I packed up my bag and left Washington state and told Tharold, goodbye!
I went down to Oregon and offered for the work to Howard Mooney and I told him what had happened in Washington State with Tharold and he told me don't worry! There is a place for you in the work in Oregon and I started in the work in Oregon 6 months later at Boring Convention in 1986-93.
Tharold had never apologized to me for his unkindness! I saw him a few time when I was a worker, I just move on. When I became a worker I didn't want to be like Tharold kind of person at all.
So I was right that YOU are not brave enough to advise the workers to approach me in kindness. Your prayers for me might be helped if you would do that for me.
|
|
|
Post by reborn on Dec 8, 2019 20:11:45 GMT -5
I don't KNOW what happened between you, your family and with the workers in Calf. I believe both sides hurt each other with accusations from what I read in your posts for years. He said, she said this that... I know you for many years in the past, BobW. through the Internet/on line. We had great time, laughed a lot, you were a wonderful friend to me. Then you went missing for years, and I didn't KNOW what happened to you and your family... Sorry, to hear all the things you went through with the workers. The workers are NOT perfect or angels themselves, I know this from first hand experience in dealing with many of them. You folks had a lot of problems in California with the workers, I had heard about it.
The workers will NEVER apologize to you publicly... some workers might confess and say sorry to you personally. I talked to Pat, who used to be Goonetilika and she spoke very highly of you. I stayed with Pat and her family home for two weeks in Hawaii twice before I came to the mainland.
Just forgive the workers who did wrong to you and your family! The overseer ruined my life, like given me the green light to start in the work in Washington State in 1984 then the workers in our field asked me to speak in the last gospel meeting in Seattle in front of 100s friends. Then I went to preps with them, then the overseer/Tharold told me my name is NOT on the preps at Miltown!
This overseer was the old school kind of a guy! He changed his mind for some crazy reasons so, he sent me a letter that my name not on the list to the wrong address I was no longer living there therefore, I didn't know about it. I went to Preps! we had a good visit and he told me to wait another year and I believed him and waited. Starting again with hardly any money in my pocket, he didn't even offer to help me.
I went back to my old job, and waited a yr... NO phone call, or letter of anything for One and half year! I prayed to God what should I do? One night in my dream, God said to me, "Go to Oregon! and offer for the work there." I packed up my bag and left Washington state and told Tharold, goodbye!
I went down to Oregon and offered for the work to Howard Mooney and I told him what had happened in Washington State with Tharold and he told me don't worry! There is a place for you in the work in Oregon and I started in the work in Oregon 6 months later at Boring Convention in 1986-93.
Tharold had never apologized to me for his unkindness! I saw him a few time when I was a worker, I just move on. When I became a worker I didn't want to be like Tharold kind of person at all.
So I was right that YOU are not brave enough to advise the workers to approach me in kindness. Your prayers for me might be helped if you would do that for me. Bob, have the workers in your area now been unkind to you? I certainly hope not.
|
|
|
Post by Annan on Dec 8, 2019 20:13:59 GMT -5
Nathan - you sound like the victim of an abusive relationship. Abused and rejected by the workers many times in the past, don't believe a lot of what they teach, even contradict what they teach, yet cannot leave the relationship due to long term conditioning. From an Interview by Troy Williams with John Lamb Lash, author of Not In His Image TW: Break down what you call the Redeemer Complex. Take us through that.
JLL: The first element is the belief in a father god, (not a mother), who alone creates the world. That father god is an off-planet deity. He is not in the creation -- the creation is his handiwork. The second element is a chosen people who reflect the awareness of the father god. Third, the messiah is sent by the father god to guide, drive or compel the chosen people to fulfill their destiny. The fourth point is the day of retribution. There is a day of judgment and universal damnation for those who have not followed the divine plan. This whole package I call the “Palestinian Redeemer-Complex”. It was formulated over many centuries in the Jewish religion and then it was passed over into Christian ideology and survives today.
TW: We see the genocide of the pagans, the destruction of the Mysteries, the crusades, the inquisition, the conquering of the New World – all justified by the cross.
LJJ: That may sound like a sweeping generalization. I’m not arguing that we can place all of human violence on Christian ideology. I’m arguing for something more subtle. Humans are capable of violence and oppression. When that tendency becomes legitimated by a grand religious belief system, then the violence takes on a super-human dimension – it becomes totally out of scale. And that is the kind of violence we have seen associated with the Christian religion for 2000 years now.
TW: And it provides a cover and justification for dominators and abusers to maim and kill. Take us through what you call the Victim-Perpetrator Syndrome. JLL: For some 50 years in American psychology we have developed the idea of the abuse bonding, or what I call the “victim-perpetrator syndrome”. If there is an abuser and there are people who are abused, there will be a bond formed between them. And some of the abused will then become abusers in turn. And even the abused people in the system who do not become abusers will remain faithful and loyal to those who abused them. We see it in dysfunctional families where children who are beaten to an atrocious degree will stand up and defend their parents. So I looked at the victim-perpetrator syndrome to analyze history and found that the ideology of Christian salvation is a concept that is really pathological and serves as a cover for the victim-perpetrator game to continue.
TW: If perpetrators of abuse are more often than not abused themselves –what abuse was inflicted upon the Europeans prior to the 1st Century that produced for them this drive for domination through violence?
JLL: Go back and read the Old Testament. Read how Jehovah treats his chosen children.
TW: He’s always threatening to wipe them out!
JLL: He punishes them, and then he promises to reward them more highly than any other nations. But at the same time that’s only a lure to pull them deeper into the bonding. The next thing you know they’re being punished again and told they’re not good enough. If you read the Old Testament with this victim-perpetrator syndrome as a key it’s a pretty eye-opening experience. The second historical example is when the Europeans discovered America. They systematically perpetrated genocide on the Native Americans. Why did they do that when they could have acted otherwise and made alliances with those people? My answer is that the Europeans who came to the Americas in the 15th century had already had genocide and violence enacted on them through the imposition of Christianity. They were the abused who turned into the abusers.
TW: Let’s talk about Jesus. He is considered the very best human to ever walk the earth. You are arguing that’s not the case.
JLL: I do not easily take a swipe at Jesus. I understand that a great many people locate their human dignity in the figure of Jesus. But on the other hand as an historian and as a person in search for the truth of the human condition, I have had to dig deeply into this Jesus persona. And I cannot agree with the claim that sometime in the first century there was a wonderful man who had beautiful things to say and somehow that all got corrupted. If you look at the historical records of the time, the evidence strongly suggests that there never was an original pure and beautiful message of Jesus. It’s something that we would have liked to be so. We have such an expectation projected on Jesus. He is the figure in which we invest our human dignity. The question I raise in my book is are we investing that in the wrong place?
TW: You write that Jesus’ teachings: “Resist not evil”, “turn the other cheek”, “love your enemies”, “do good to those that hate you”, actually allows this victim-perpetrator bond to continue.
JLL: To me it’s self-evident. “Love your enemy” and “turn the other cheek”. Take a few steps and look at that ethic. There are two things wrong with this. This ethic favors the perpetrator. It’s a way of giving liaises fair to the perpetrators by accepting abuse. The second point, it’s very imbalanced because it’s a message given to the people who have been subjected to violence. If the message of Jesus is so universal and profound, why isn’t he saying something to the perpetrators as well? The only thing his ethic does for the victims is giving them the sense of a high moral ground.
TW: Which keeps the bond intact. I attended an Earthdance downtown as a group of people gathered to pray for world-peace. Two prayers struck me in particular. A member of the North West band of Shoshone stood up sang and spoke of a prophecy of our pending destruction – and then invoked, “Jesus our Savior” and the need for deliverance. After he spoke an African Christian minister gave a prayer and invoked Jesus again, praying for world peace. I was awe-struck. Here were two men, representing two cultures that have been utterly devastated by Christianity, and they are both invoking the deity of their oppressors to rescue them from the very oppression that the deity created in the first place!
JLL: It’s a staggering insight. You couldn’t ask for a more clear illustration of the victim-perpetrator bond than that. I’m sure they were totally sincere in their beliefs, but I would call them seriously deluded. Here they are pleading to this symbolic head of a belief system that has actually caused great destruction to the very cultures that they come from – Africa and the Native American culture. What they are doing essentially is pleading with their perpetrators in a sense saying, we want to reconcile with you. But reconciliation only favors the perpetrator – and the game goes on.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Dec 8, 2019 20:20:28 GMT -5
I recently read "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakaeur - a book on the history of Mormonism. It is part of Mormon doctrine that all Mormons can get their own revelation directly from God. Founder Joseph Smith soon realised he'd made an error with this teaching which initially justified his own "revelations from God" - his revelations as leader didn't always match the revelations of his followers, and created problems with his authority. Over the years, many Mormons have had "revelations" leading to terrible abuse, violence and bloodshed. The book focuses on the history of Mormonism and its practice of revelations which led to murders on a number of occasions. Got a problem with someone usurping the will of God? God must want me to kill them - I'm solving the problem for God! (so the thought pattern goes). The voice in someone's head is no sign of legitimacy. The voice in someone's head needs to be thoughtfully considered in the same way we consider each other's verbal and written thoughts. There is absolutely no Biblical mandate to accept the "voice in someone's head" as being true, or as being from God. It is a purely subjective experience. Nathan - you sound like the victim of an abusive relationship. Abused and rejected by the workers many times in the past, don't believe a lot of what they teach, even contradict what they teach, yet cannot leave the relationship due to long term conditioning. ** Looking back from my 40 yrs experiences and dealing with 2x2s. I marvel at God great wisdom, He was training and teaching me MANY lessons to prepare me for the future, and most importantly, to get to KNOW God personally. God has helped me to deal with my own demons, learn how to forgive others, be compssionate, be kind, patience and to wait for God's timing NOT to take matters into my own hands. I have become a better person and more Christlike through it all so, I say the lessons from good, bad and ugly experiences I've gone throughbare all worth it. It has made me to pray on my knees a lot and draw closer to God seeking for His help and guidance.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 8, 2019 20:25:39 GMT -5
Bob, have the workers in your area now been unkind to you? I certainly hope not. I have long since stopped answering this question. Why? There are two reasons: (1) No one has the time to be bothered hearing it. (2) Everyone that has asked about it has begun arguing with me before I tell them what really happened. If anyone really wants to know about it, they will have to read my book because THAT is my testimony -- I can discuss it better after someone's read it. I deserve to be judged on the sum of my behaviors.
|
|
|
Post by reborn on Dec 8, 2019 20:27:29 GMT -5
Bob, have the workers in your area now been unkind to you? I certainly hope not. I have long since stopped answering this question. Why? There are two reasons: (1) No one has the time to be bothered hearing it. (2) Everyone that has asked about it has begun arguing with me before I tell them what really happened. If anyone really wants to know about it, they will have to read my book because THAT is my testimony -- I can discuss it better after someone's read it. I deserve to be judged on the sum of my behaviors. Ok. Fair enough.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 8, 2019 20:27:32 GMT -5
I wonder how many people though out the history of Christianity have said that very same thing , "I strictly receive truth from God. That is exactly how I know that is truth!"
Too numerous to count, -I would think.
Every time someone breaks with the particular religion & starts a new one the founder makes that very claim.
Exactly why no one should put their faith in man- God Only. It is possible to know God. Yet reborn, -you seem to have the gall to believe that you can interpret the bible and redefine verses with the word "Gehenna." (which, BTW, -is not even mentioned in the bible.)
Then you take it upon yourself to redefine what Jesus meant accuse others of not understanding.
|
|
|
Post by reborn on Dec 8, 2019 20:30:06 GMT -5
Exactly why no one should put their faith in man- God Only. It is possible to know God. Yet reborn, -you seem to have the gall to believe that you can interpret the bible and redefine verses with the word "Gehenna." (which, BTW, -is not even mentioned in the bible.)
Then you take it upon yourself to redefine what Jesus meant accuse others of not understanding.Gehenna? Not a word I have discussed with you- perhaps you confused a separate conversation you were having.😊
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Dec 8, 2019 20:31:13 GMT -5
I don't KNOW what happened between you, your family and with the workers in Calf. I believe both sides hurt each other with accusations from what I read in your posts for years. He said, she said this that... I know you for many years in the past, BobW. through the Internet/on line. We had great time, laughed a lot, you were a wonderful friend to me. Then you went missing for years, and I didn't KNOW what happened to you and your family... Sorry, to hear all the things you went through with the workers. The workers are NOT perfect or angels themselves, I know this from first hand experience in dealing with many of them. You folks had a lot of problems in California with the workers, I had heard about it.
The workers will NEVER apologize to you publicly... some workers might confess and say sorry to you personally. I talked to Pat, who used to be Goonetilika and she spoke very highly of you. I stayed with Pat and her family home for two weeks in Hawaii twice before I came to the mainland.
Just forgive the workers who did wrong to you and your family! The overseer ruined my life, like given me the green light to start in the work in Washington State in 1984 then the workers in our field asked me to speak in the last gospel meeting in Seattle in front of 100s friends. Then I went to preps with them, then the overseer/Tharold told me my name is NOT on the preps at Miltown!
This overseer was the old school kind of a guy! He changed his mind for some crazy reasons so, he sent me a letter that my name not on the list to the wrong address I was no longer living there therefore, I didn't know about it. I went to Preps! we had a good visit and he told me to wait another year and I believed him and waited. Starting again with hardly any money in my pocket, he didn't even offer to help me.
I went back to my old job, and waited a yr... NO phone call, or letter of anything for One and half year! I prayed to God what should I do? One night in my dream, God said to me, "Go to Oregon! and offer for the work there." I packed up my bag and left Washington state and told Tharold, goodbye!
I went down to Oregon and offered for the work to Howard Mooney and I told him what had happened in Washington State with Tharold and he told me don't worry! There is a place for you in the work in Oregon and I started in the work in Oregon 6 months later at Boring Convention in 1986-93.
Tharold had never apologized to me for his unkindness! I saw him a few time when I was a worker, I just move on. When I became a worker I didn't want to be like Tharold kind of person at all.
So I was right that YOU are not brave enough to advise the workers to approach me in kindness. Your prayers for me might be helped if you would do that for me. ** Iam NOT in touch with too many workers in California these days but I know many of them. I promise that I will try to sent your request to the workers because many California workers are laboring in Oregon now. It would be awesome to see you approach to the workers that offended you and your family and amend with them. You would put them to shame for showing the Spirit of Christ. " Father forgive them because they are guilty as charged."
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Dec 8, 2019 20:32:04 GMT -5
I have long since stopped answering this question. Why? There are two reasons: (1) No one has the time to be bothered hearing it. (2) Everyone that has asked about it has begun arguing with me before I tell them what really happened. If anyone really wants to know about it, they will have to read my book because THAT is my testimony -- I can discuss it better after someone's read it. I deserve to be judged on the sum of my behaviors. Ok. Fair enough. I would welcome your critique of my experience.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 8, 2019 20:53:04 GMT -5
Yet reborn, -you seem to have the gall to believe that you can interpret the bible and redefine verses with the word "Gehenna." (which, BTW, -is not even mentioned in the bible.)
Then you take it upon yourself to redefine what Jesus meant accuse others of not understanding. Gehenna? Not a word I have discussed with you- perhaps you confused a separate conversation you were having.😊 Oops! I'm sorry, -you are correct.
I had someone else in mind.
I apologize,
|
|
|
Post by reborn on Dec 8, 2019 21:02:04 GMT -5
Gehenna? Not a word I have discussed with you- perhaps you confused a separate conversation you were having.😊 Oops! I'm sorry, -you are correct.
I had someone else in mind.
I apologize, [img class="smile" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/embarrassed.png" alt=""]No worries!😊
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Dec 8, 2019 21:51:16 GMT -5
Oops! I'm sorry, -you are correct.
I had someone else in mind.
I apologize, [img class="smile" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/embarrassed.png" alt=""] No worries!😊 Keep up the good works! and posting, Reborn. .. We appreciate your posts, and the way how you answers them in Christlike Spirit with kindness and coolness. I wish more workers and friends post on line. You have a good grasp of spiritual things. Glad to have you on TMB.
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 9, 2019 1:36:04 GMT -5
I recently read "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakaeur - a book on the history of Mormonism. It is part of Mormon doctrine that all Mormons can get their own revelation directly from God. Founder Joseph Smith soon realised he'd made an error with this teaching which initially justified his own "revelations from God" - his revelations as leader didn't always match the revelations of his followers, and created problems with his authority. Over the years, many Mormons have had "revelations" leading to terrible abuse, violence and bloodshed. The book focuses on the history of Mormonism and its practice of revelations which led to murders on a number of occasions. Got a problem with someone usurping the will of God? God must want me to kill them - I'm solving the problem for God! (so the thought pattern goes). The voice in someone's head is no sign of legitimacy. The voice in someone's head needs to be thoughtfully considered in the same way we consider each other's verbal and written thoughts. There is absolutely no Biblical mandate to accept the "voice in someone's head" as being true, or as being from God. It is a purely subjective experience. Nathan - you sound like the victim of an abusive relationship. Abused and rejected by the workers many times in the past, don't believe a lot of what they teach, even contradict what they teach, yet cannot leave the relationship due to long term conditioning. I think you are describing a co-dependent abusive relationship. Sometimes it is a one way, sometimes two way street for the abuse. The dependence is the giveaway and generally is a sign of deep insecurity.
|
|
|
Post by reborn on Dec 9, 2019 9:24:02 GMT -5
I recently read "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakaeur - a book on the history of Mormonism. It is part of Mormon doctrine that all Mormons can get their own revelation directly from God. Founder Joseph Smith soon realised he'd made an error with this teaching which initially justified his own "revelations from God" - his revelations as leader didn't always match the revelations of his followers, and created problems with his authority. Over the years, many Mormons have had "revelations" leading to terrible abuse, violence and bloodshed. The book focuses on the history of Mormonism and its practice of revelations which led to murders on a number of occasions. Got a problem with someone usurping the will of God? God must want me to kill them - I'm solving the problem for God! (so the thought pattern goes). The voice in someone's head is no sign of legitimacy. The voice in someone's head needs to be thoughtfully considered in the same way we consider each other's verbal and written thoughts. There is absolutely no Biblical mandate to accept the "voice in someone's head" as being true, or as being from God. It is a purely subjective experience. Nathan - you sound like the victim of an abusive relationship. Abused and rejected by the workers many times in the past, don't believe a lot of what they teach, even contradict what they teach, yet cannot leave the relationship due to long term conditioning. I think you are describing a co-dependent abusive relationship. Sometimes it is a one way, sometimes two way street for the abuse. The dependence is the giveaway and generally is a sign of deep insecurity. To have and hear the holy spirit is the highest compliment one could ever achieve to. A true gift from God!
|
|
|
Post by rational on Dec 9, 2019 9:57:39 GMT -5
No, it just doesn't mean it is god speaking... *** You have NOT experience these things yourself personally so, no wonder you don't believe it. Some of us have these experiences happened to us. No, I have not heard voices speaking to me. I have, however, worked with a number of people who have and they were just as convinced as you were that the voices were not products of their own minds. Did anyone else hear these voices? Unless they were recorded or heard by others how could you determine whether they were actual longitudinal pressure waves or auditory hallucinations? Yes, you wrote about what you perceived. That doesn't help determine what it really was.
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 9, 2019 11:52:48 GMT -5
I think you are describing a co-dependent abusive relationship. Sometimes it is a one way, sometimes two way street for the abuse. The dependence is the giveaway and generally is a sign of deep insecurity. To have and hear the holy spirit is the highest compliment one could ever achieve to. A true gift from God! If you are hearing voices then you are suffering from a psychosis and need help from a medical specialist.
|
|