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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 5, 2018 20:54:52 GMT -5
While subjective and objective observation are obvious enough occurrences, IMO it is our sharing with the holy spirit that we're having a discussion of objectivity or truth in the first place. So Lee, -you believe that two people cannot discuss objectivity and/or truth without a "holy spirit" being present?
You may not like the conclusions that people come to but they don't all have to have a "holy spirit" as an arbitrator to come to a viable conclusion! That idea is pure hubris on the part of Christians.
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Post by Lee on Dec 6, 2018 9:19:54 GMT -5
I think it's a viable theory. It explains why we perceive things Fuller and richer than animals. It explains why we value things for their qualities themselves, as opposed to what the whatever might lend to us in terms of survival.
One complementary path to objectivity is the ability to perceive something apart from ones attachment for need to it. Christianity doesn't rule out perception that is pursuant to relationship either. Christianity is all about fulfilling needs that glorify God and one another.
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Post by Lee on Dec 6, 2018 9:25:07 GMT -5
Well we are imperfect. Let's all hold hands and habilitate. Suffering souls behoove us. Maybe the first place, Lee, we should to define the characteristics of what we consider "imperfect" in we humans.
Then also define what we would consider "perfection" in a god.
We really need to do that before we talk about the subject.
PS: Also what constitutes a "Suffering soul."
We could start by defining 'brick'.
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Post by rational on Dec 6, 2018 11:21:27 GMT -5
I think it's a viable theory. It explains why we perceive things Fuller and richer than animals. What makes you think this is the case? A dog can smell a tree and know all he animals that have urinated there. Can you? You mean like birds that decorate their nests with interesting pieces of debris that do not contribute to their survival? Or why dolphins ride the bow wave of ships just for the joy of the ride? But you are right - animals are not swayed by mythical stories the same way humans are. They do not live their lives guided by some unsupported story of eternal life. They are reality based. Again back to the dolphins. Christianity is all about control.
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Post by Lee on Dec 7, 2018 23:14:56 GMT -5
A god directed religion would be. And control is good, we all need control. Self control is an index of maturity, but few of us were born as smart as you.
Being smart and conceited lends one to a zoo keeper personality, and self concept. An angry preservation of the self lies beneath this disposition, not the holy spirit. The holy Spirit is generous and orderly.
A dog has a greater cerebral platform for smell, but no animal has greater cerebral support for existial reflection than man.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 8, 2018 1:03:49 GMT -5
While subjective and objective observation are obvious enough occurrences, IMO it is our sharing with the holy spirit that we're having a discussion of objectivity or truth in the first place. So Lee, -you believe that two people cannot discuss objectivity and/or truth without a "holy spirit" being present? You may not like the conclusions that people come to but they don't all have to have a "holy spirit" as an arbitrator to come to a viable conclusion! That idea is pure hubris on the part of Christians. <abbr title="Dec 6, 2018 8:19:54 GMT -6" class="o-timestamp time" data-timestamp="1544105994000">ec 6, 2018 8:19:54 GMT -6</abbr> Lee said: I think it's a viable theory. It explains why we perceive things Fuller and richer than animals. It explains why we value things for their qualities themselves, as opposed to what the whatever might lend to us in terms of survival. One complementary path to objectivity is the ability to perceive something apart from ones attachment for need to it. Christianity doesn't rule out perception that is pursuant to relationship either. Christianity is all about fulfilling needs that glorify God and one another. It could be a "viable theory," -a "holy spirit" as an arbitrator, -but from what you describe & believe that this "holy spirit" to be and comes from, -a supernatural being, -I just don't believe that needs to be the reason.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 8, 2018 1:06:36 GMT -5
Maybe the first place, Lee, we should to define the characteristics of what we consider "imperfect" in we humans.
Then also define what we would consider "perfection" in a god.
We really need to do that before we talk about the subject.
PS: Also what constitutes a "Suffering soul."
We could start by defining 'brick'. NO, we need for you to define what YOU mean by "Suffering soul."
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 8, 2018 2:29:39 GMT -5
A god directed religion would be. And control is good, we all need control. Self control is an index of maturity, but few of us were born as smart as you. Being smart and conceited lends one to a zoo keeper personality, and self concept. An angry preservation of the self lies beneath this disposition, not the holy spirit. The holy Spirit is generous and orderly. A dog has a greater cerebral platform for smell, but no animal has greater cerebral support for existial reflection than man. Come one, Lee! When we see the person starting to use ad hominems we know that they KNOW they are losing the argument!
Your desperation is beginning to show when you say things like this.
"Being smart and conceited lends one to a zoo keeper personality." "an angry preservation of the self lies beneath this disposition, not the holy spirit."
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Post by rational on Dec 8, 2018 12:43:01 GMT -5
A god directed religion would be. And control is good, we all need control. Self control is an index of maturity, but few of us were born as smart as you. [/the same god that directed those he controlled to kill infants. It is not a matter of being smart. Just having a personal moral compass. I wonder what being myopic and deluded leads to. I was just responding to your claim. What the dog does or does not have is not the point. Your statement was incorrect. Spin it around and around it you need to avoid saying ou were in error but the facts remain.
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Post by Lee on Dec 8, 2018 17:20:15 GMT -5
Zoo keepers of humans are myopic. They consider their inferiors, which is everyone else, as animals. Hence their calloused regard for abortion and gender distinction. Theyre apt to say things like "people just choose their jobs, therefore they deserve their inadequate wages".
Ironically, this is a playcard out of Calvinism, which ism maligns Calvin, and his seminal role in the humanitarian emphasis of the Reformation.
Capitalism is a temptress. It brings us goodies, while tempting us to ignore poor wages. We're worshipping an ism after all, the beast.
Not me and my household. I'm for people. Economies will always place the strong over the weak. It's the floor I'm concerned about. There is no floor in capitalism. The homeless are flooding your streets.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 8, 2018 17:27:29 GMT -5
Zoo keepers of humans are myopic. They consider their inferiors, which is everyone else, as animals. Hence their calloused regard for abortion and gender distinction. What do you mean by calloused regard for gender distinction?
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Post by Lee on Dec 8, 2018 17:36:15 GMT -5
It's just a tool to break the judeo Christian progress. It's all about relocating the ego in the groin again after attempts to relocate it it the brain and the whole body.
Recently a French teacher was fired for refusing to use masculine forms in reference to a girl, per her request.
Sick. Modern society and antichristian operatives and lusts are sick.
I have a condition, diabetes. I suck it up. I do my best to control it and not impact my employer and peers.
Suck it up, those of you with conditions that keep you from being male or female.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 8, 2018 17:47:27 GMT -5
It's just a tool to break the judeo Christian progress. It's all about relocating the ego in the groin again after attempts to relocate it it the brain and the whole body. Recently a French teacher was fired for refusing to use masculine forms in reference to a girl, per her request. Sick. Modern society and antichristian operatives and lusts are sick. I have a condition, diabetes. I suck it up. I do my best to control it and not impact my employer and peers. Suck it up, those of you with conditions that keep you from being male or female. You do seem to have a callous regard for those that are different and do not fit in with how you think they should be.
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Post by Lee on Dec 8, 2018 18:49:33 GMT -5
Predictably the ABG community leads ad hominem.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 8, 2018 21:20:50 GMT -5
Predictably the ABG community leads ad hominem. Apparently it is going to reopen. Last time I was there the place was packed and then I heard it had closed.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 8, 2018 22:08:53 GMT -5
Zoo keepers of humans are myopic. They consider their inferiors, which is everyone else, as animals. Hence their calloused regard for abortion and gender distinction. Theyre apt to say things like "people just choose their jobs, therefore they deserve their inadequate wages". Ironically, this is a playcard out of Calvinism, which ism maligns Calvin, and his seminal role in the humanitarian emphasis of the Reformation. Capitalism is a temptress. It brings us goodies, while tempting us to ignore poor wages. We're worshipping an ism after all, the beast. Not me and my household. I'm for people. Economies will always place the strong over the weak. It's the floor I'm concerned about. There is no floor in capitalism. The homeless are flooding your streets. Not sure just who it is that you believe are the controlling "zoo-keepers," Lee.
You are blaming "Capitalism
What type government do you think that we should have?
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Post by Lee on Dec 8, 2018 22:50:55 GMT -5
Something human scale. Something outside and yet inside our imaginations. The answer doesn't consist of demonizing the latest persons comprising the oppositional political party. The answer consists of calling demons demons, those who are rigidly attached to their stations in this life. There's no station so cemented as that which denies the holy spirit, and the promise of progress which is not randomly composed as atheists consider evolution, but principled, human friendly, and god like.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 9, 2018 0:20:25 GMT -5
Something human scale. Something outside and yet inside our imaginations. The answer doesn't consist of demonizing the latest persons comprising the oppositional political party. The answer consists of calling demons demons, those who are rigidly attached to their stations in this life. There's no station so cemented as that which denies the holy spirit, and the promise of progress which is not randomly composed as atheists consider evolution, but principled, human friendly, and god like. Well, people have been trying to find a utopia for a long time and so far believing in a "god" and allowing "religious belief" to control our lives hasn't helped any.
In fact, such a belief has often been a horrible plague on mankind's existence, let alone any ability to progress!
It wasn't until we were able to leave behind the shackles of religion and god and instead concentrate on what would be better for MANKIND that we have prospered to the point that we have.
Notice in our Preamble to U.S. Constitution it is the PEOPLE that we are caring about, -not some farfetched deity that has so far not been seen as caring much.
Preamble
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 9, 2018 0:56:29 GMT -5
It's just a tool to break the judeo Christian progress. It's all about relocating the ego in the groin again after attempts to relocate it it the brain and the whole body. Recently a French teacher was fired for refusing to use masculine forms in reference to a girl, per her request. Sick. Modern society and antichristian operatives and lusts are sick. I have a condition, diabetes. I suck it up. I do my best to control it and not impact my employer and peers. Suck it up, those of you with conditions that keep you from being male or female. Yes, Lee, -we are aware that you have a (medical ) condition called "diabetes."
BUT NO, you ARE NOT able to just "suck it up" in order to handle your diabetes!
You probably wouldn't even have lived this long had you lived before 1920 and didn't have INSULIN! Taking insulin means that you aren't having to "suck it up!"
Had there not been a couple of doctors, -Frederick Banting and Charles Best, -who were able to create insulin in 1924, you wouldn't be here. Before then diabetes was a death sentence.
So how dare you be so damned sanctimonious about other peoples "conditions" and tell them to just "Suck it up!"t
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 10, 2018 4:36:09 GMT -5
A god directed religion would be. And control is good, we all need control. Self control is an index of maturity, but few of us were born as smart as you. Being smart and conceited lends one to a zoo keeper personality, and self concept. An angry preservation of the self lies beneath this disposition, not the holy spirit. The holy Spirit is generous and orderly. A dog has a greater cerebral platform for smell, but no animal has greater cerebral support for existial reflection than man. True, -reflection is one of the main differences between ourselves & lower animals.
It was when our brains evolved to the point that we could "reflect" on and remember our past that we could begin to ruminate on our present position and from that extrapolate what might happen in the future.
The big difference is the capacity to be rational.
Rationality is the main asset that sets us apart.
We have the capacity to think, -to investigate our surroundings, -to reason & try control our in environment.
But we think that being rational is the "holy spirit" and was instilled in mankind by some deity, -at what particular time in mankind's evolution do you think that "god" did it?
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Post by rational on Dec 10, 2018 12:00:32 GMT -5
There's no station so cemented as that which denies the holy spirit, and the promise of progress which is not randomly composed as atheists consider evolution, but principled, human friendly, and god like. Human friendly? Evolution? After reading accounts of your god I would agree with 'god like'. The evolution of something like smallpox does not lead one to say principled or human friendly.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 10, 2018 12:16:31 GMT -5
There's no station so cemented as that which denies the holy spirit, and the promise of progress which is not randomly composed as atheists consider evolution, but principled, human friendly, and god like. Human friendly? Evolution? After reading accounts of your god I would agree with 'god like'. The evolution of something like smallpox does not lead one to say principled or human friendly. Lately I have been having doubts about evolution. The specific case where I think it is not working is misogynists. I would have thought that by now they would have died out due to lack of women dumb enough to breed with them.
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Post by slowtosee on Dec 10, 2018 14:03:31 GMT -5
Maybe need do a study on that one . My wife text me results of another study which showed that slightly overweight women lived longer, than the men who mentioned it . Is there any connection ?
Alvin
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 10, 2018 16:00:40 GMT -5
Maybe need do a study on that one . My wife text me results of another study which showed that slightly overweight women lived longer, than the men who mentioned it . Is there any connection ? Alvin I am sure there is.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 10, 2018 21:40:29 GMT -5
Human friendly? Evolution? After reading accounts of your god I would agree with 'god like'. The evolution of something like smallpox does not lead one to say principled or human friendly. Lately I have been having doubts about evolution. The specific case where I think it is not working is misogynists. I would have thought that by now they would have died out due to lack of women dumb enough to breed with them. Ah, -but they are dying out!
Because, -now that we have a choice we AREN'T breeding with them! Think of a few that are here on TMB who don't seem to have female significant others. (Gene excluded! )
Also we are raising or sons to see women as equals and to treat them as such.
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Post by Lee on Dec 10, 2018 23:04:00 GMT -5
A god directed religion would be. And control is good, we all need control. Self control is an index of maturity, but few of us were born as smart as you. Being smart and conceited lends one to a zoo keeper personality, and self concept. An angry preservation of the self lies beneath this disposition, not the holy spirit. The holy Spirit is generous and orderly. A dog has a greater cerebral platform for smell, but no animal has greater cerebral support for existial reflection than man. True, -reflection is one of the main differences between ourselves & lower animals.
It was when our brains evolved to the point that we could "reflect" on and remember our past that we could begin to ruminate on our present position and from that extrapolate what might happen in the future.
The big difference is the capacity to be rational.
Rationality is the main asset that sets us apart.
We have the capacity to think, -to investigate our surroundings, -to reason & try control our in environment.
But we think that being rational is the "holy spirit" and was instilled in mankind by some deity, -at what particular time in mankind's evolution do you think that "god" did it?
I don't think evolution is really evolution. It only appears to be. There's more meaning in the allegorical event that 'god created them male and female' than anything Darwin observed or conjectured. I think he was aware people would run away with his observations, and conclude more than was merited from them, absolutely and metaphysically, about the origins of the species.
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Post by Lee on Dec 10, 2018 23:09:46 GMT -5
It's just a tool to break the judeo Christian progress. It's all about relocating the ego in the groin again after attempts to relocate it it the brain and the whole body. Recently a French teacher was fired for refusing to use masculine forms in reference to a girl, per her request. Sick. Modern society and antichristian operatives and lusts are sick. I have a condition, diabetes. I suck it up. I do my best to control it and not impact my employer and peers. Suck it up, those of you with conditions that keep you from being male or female. Yes, Lee, -we are aware that you have a (medical ) condition called "diabetes."
BUT NO, you ARE NOT able to just "suck it up" in order to handle your diabetes!
You probably wouldn't even have lived this long had you lived before 1920 and didn't have INSULIN! Taking insulin means that you aren't having to "suck it up!"
Had there not been a couple of doctors, -Frederick Banting and Charles Best, -who were able to create insulin in 1924, you wouldn't be here. Before then diabetes was a death sentence.
So how dare you be so damned sanctimonious about other peoples "conditions" and tell them to just "Suck it up!"t
Nurse Rachet, in the flesh. The pangender movement has gone to far. I was getting pre-qualified for a home loan several weeks ago. At the end of our interview I was asked, do I identify bas a male, this after I'd pretty much given her the resume of my life. She said she had to ask me that lest she get into trouble with the law. I suppose there'll be a day when teachers are required to ask their four and five years old how do you identify. Wouldn't want to assume anything. That evil Christian religion might have labeled some child. It's up to state run education to level everything. Sexual distinction be damned, as if kids should be burdened with this. Fools, the moderns are.
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Post by Lee on Dec 10, 2018 23:12:30 GMT -5
Something human scale. Something outside and yet inside our imaginations. The answer doesn't consist of demonizing the latest persons comprising the oppositional political party. The answer consists of calling demons demons, those who are rigidly attached to their stations in this life. There's no station so cemented as that which denies the holy spirit, and the promise of progress which is not randomly composed as atheists consider evolution, but principled, human friendly, and god like. Well, people have been trying to find a utopia for a long time and so far believing in a "god" and allowing "religious belief" to control our lives hasn't helped any.
In fact, such a belief has often been a horrible plague on mankind's existence, let alone any ability to progress!
It wasn't until we were able to leave behind the shackles of religion and god and instead concentrate on what would be better for MANKIND that we have prospered to the point that we have.
Notice in our Preamble to U.S. Constitution it is the PEOPLE that we are caring about, -not some farfetched deity that has so far not been seen as caring much.
Preamble
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
That was your reaction to religion.
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