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Post by nathan on Nov 7, 2018 11:51:58 GMT -5
I agree the workers in Australia must cooperate with the laws and the authority on CSA. The Austrlians are strong wils, stubborn people, they don't like anyone tell them what to do or any laws to force on them to obey. I hope the NEW overseer will be able to encourage his staff and the friends to obey the laws. What facts do you you base your comments about Australian people? ** From what I read on TMB for over 20 yrs, the Australians workers I have met, and things I have heard and read about them. They are beautiful and wonderful people but very stubborn sometimes.
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Post by Grant on Nov 7, 2018 14:14:11 GMT -5
What facts do you you base your comments about Australian people? ** From what I read on TMB for over 20 yrs, the Australians workers I have met, and things I have heard and read about them. They are beautiful and wonderful people but very stubborn sometimes. You're generalizing Nathan. It's not based on facts at all, just your opinion. Australians are no different from anyone else. There are plenty of stubborn people where you live, I'm sure.
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Post by nathan on Nov 7, 2018 15:06:13 GMT -5
** From what I read on TMB for over 20 yrs, the Australians workers I have met, and things I have heard and read about them. They are beautiful and wonderful people but very stubborn sometimes. You're generalizing Nathan. It's not based on facts at all, just your opinion. Australians are no different from anyone else. There are plenty of stubborn people where you live, I'm sure. *** Yes, that is my 30 yrs observation about 2x2 Australians workers I met, heard and read through the yrs. They don't like changes or anyone tell them what to do.
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Post by tuesday on Nov 7, 2018 15:25:56 GMT -5
A couple of different professing folk have indicated recently that he is organising for all Australian workers (around 115 in total) to come together for a conference at the end of the 2nd Maroota Convention just outside Sydney. Good morning, My understanding is that this worker's convention will take place in January 2020.
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Post by nathan on Nov 7, 2018 15:34:27 GMT -5
I agree the workers in Australia must cooperate with the laws and the authority on CSA. The Australians are strong wills, stubborn people, they don't like anyone tell them what to do or any laws to force on them to obey. I hope the NEW overseer will be able to encourage his staff and the friends to obey the laws. Agree they need to cooperate with the authorities and obey the law but they need to change the whole culture of how they act and do things. There is a lot of healing required because there is a large trust deficit. If you look at the 2x2 church in NZ I think it’s fair to say there has been zero tolerance of CSA for many years, workers are clear in police reporting and victims are not marginalised. The culture is completely different. I don’t think it’s anything to do with Aussies per se - if you look at the states in Australia where the 2x2 church have had deep problems in relation to Child Sexual Abuse, there has been a corruption in leadership for many years. If you knew the people involved you’d come to the same conclusion. Some of them have personalities like Tharald Sylvester who I think was your Head Worker in Washington state at the time. Tharald wasn’t about to change for anyone on a range of issues but I know he received a lot of feedback. The local Head Workers here who have serious problems (definitely not all of them) remind me a lot of Tharald. ** I had been under Tharold, Howard and get to know Eldon administrations in how they run things. Some of these overseers can be very stubborn, and hard to work with. When I was in the work I didn't care for politics head games I put up with. Just like the 12 apostles, most of them fighting for the top dog place and Who should be the greatest among them. That same spirits are still among the workers today.
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Post by sauerkraut on Nov 8, 2018 1:57:06 GMT -5
Ross I also have family who profess. I generally am not privy to too much information. Far far less than you are able to glean. My reference to C of E is a reference to the fact that your church has its fair share of problems in the area of CSA. I trust you are just as zealous in ensuring your church is rid of these horrible people as you are of making accusations against the friends and workers church. Sometimes I consider your comments are extremely elitist and very condescending against people who, like you, believe in God and Jesus and do try to be very faithful and live good productive lives. If you are not privy to too much info then I'm interested in how you reached your conclusion. I dislike corruption in leadership intensely so I write strongly against it. If that comes across as elitist, I'm sorry, but I have zero time for leaders who make zero effort to support victims. Rather they do the opposite. Church leaders, in this case some senior leaders in the 2x2 church, can say they love God and Jesus and try to be faithful but in practice they can't. Protecting offenders and marginalising victims is the opposite of faithful Christian living and following Jesus. It's completely incongruous. I assumed your reference to the C of E is because you think I am member of the C of E. The church I attend is not part of the C of E, nor is in fellowship with the C of E. It has incredibly strong policies and processes in place to protect children including a lay Child Safety Representative who is completely independent of the ministry. I'm not saying that there never would be a case of Child Sexual Abuse but it would be handled 180 degrees differently to how the Head Worker in New South Wales would handle it. Protecting offenders and marginalising victims is the opposite of faithful Christian living and following Jesus. It's completely incongruous and this goes for the Victorian leader as well!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 2:22:20 GMT -5
Think about the logistics of getting 157 Workers to Sydney, for a conference. Australia is a vast land, and if they fly, it will be a substantial cost. Maybe somebody should tell Graham Snow about Video Conferencing. Would be far more economical, the way to go nowadays. eh. It's not like they are actually busy spreading the gospel. They've got the time I reckon.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 8, 2018 3:00:52 GMT -5
** From what I read on TMB for over 20 yrs, the Australians workers I have met, and things I have heard and read about them. They are beautiful and wonderful people but very stubborn sometimes. You're generalizing Nathan. It's not based on facts at all, just your opinion. Australians are no different from anyone else. There are plenty of stubborn people where you live, I'm sure. nathan does a lot of generalizing !
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Post by nswelshman on Nov 10, 2018 9:37:46 GMT -5
Good morning, My understanding is that this worker's convention will take place in January 2020. It was passed onto me by a couple of professing folk so I'll ask them to check their sources. If 2020 is correct it sounds a bit unusual that you'd flag something so far out - if correct it may indicate that Graham Snow moves relatively slowly on change, which reinforces that little will change. Someone sent me the updated workers' list for Western Australia - as follows. Western Australia - 2019
Graham Snow - Field Visits Andrew Juby, Danny Grabham - Bunbury John Potter, Scott Silverlock - Rockingham - Mandurah Joel Westphal, Tim Dunn - South Perth Lexie Sutton, Marj Schloss, Brooke Den Boer - North and East Perth Shirley Frost, Janita Hills - Albany - Esperance Jeanette Doecke, Jennifer Murdock - Kondinin - Pingrup Katherine Callaway, Clare Telford - South West Garry Packard - Queensland, Jeff Ditton - Singapore, Raine Siebel - Queensland, Mary Potter - resting. My sources suggest Jan 2019. Will do some digging as well.
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Post by christiansburg on Nov 10, 2018 19:19:33 GMT -5
Some have asked the question on TMB whether Graham Snow is now in Australia. He has moved to Western Australia (WA) and assumed Head Worker responsibility there. As indicated previously in writing by the interim WA Head Worker, Graham Snow is to take responsibility for Australia. A couple of different professing folk have indicated recently that he is organising for all Australian workers (around 115 in total) to come together for a conference at the end of the 2nd Maroota Convention just outside Sydney. There are some significant doctrinal and pastoral issues for him to address. - Contrary to Scripture, workers in Australia do not preach that salvation is a gift from God that comes through faith, rather that our salvation depends on our works - Workers in Australia regard Jesus as "just a man who was helped by the Holy Spirit to overcome". Contrary to Scripture, they do not regard Him as "Lord and God" (John 20:28) or part of the Godhead - Senior workers in Australia have an appalling track record when it comes to dealing with issues of Child Sexual Abuse and Domestic Violence. Victims are not generally supported and may be criticised and offenders are generally protected There are some workers in Australia who would like it to be quite different but cannot preach Biblical doctrine as it would result in their ex-communication. They are also puzzled with how some senior workers deal with abuse but feel helpless to change the system. Australian 2x2's are not used to an Australian Head Worker. They tend not to take too much notice of a local Head Worker, let alone an Australian Head Worker. The eastern states will not take too much notice of a Head Worker from the West and there is a long history of Victoria being quite independent so an "outsider" will not likely have any influence in that state. The only precedent of an Australian Head Worker is Willie Donaldson who came back to Victoria (from overseas) after the Victorian mess in the 1950's when many people were excommunicated. Willie was a nice man but New South Wales (and other states) never accepted Willie Donaldson as the Australian Head Worker so it is fair to say that states outside of Western Australia will not accept Graham Snow as Head Worker of Australia. We wish Graham all the best in what will be a tough job. Declining numbers, false doctrine and a terrible track record in relation to abuse will not make for an easy job. As Graham Thompson indicated a few years ago, the issues and corruption concerning issues related to abuse are deeply cultural and so entrenched that change is not possible. Whilst an Australian Head Worker, in theory at least, may try to change some things, at the end of the day, each state will do what they want to do. The way forward seems to be to have an all Australian workers' conference to speak to all workers at large. But a gathering of a few days is going to have limited impact on cultural and doctrinal issues that have been deeply entrenched for decades. You need to provide some sermon on record that workers in Australia regard Jesus as "just a man". I don't believe your comment. All religions in the past have had an appalling record regarding CSA. Many are just now learning how to deal with it and should deserve credit for the effort to right things in that respect. Workers and religious leaders in many beliefs believe that salvation is a gift from God but also agree that salvation can be lost through ungodly works. We do not believe in predestination for or against salvation.
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Post by Pragmatic on Nov 11, 2018 21:28:40 GMT -5
Out Government here in NZ has just announced that an enquiry into abuse, in State care institutions, will be widened to include faith based institutions and churches, communes and charities.
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Post by speak on Nov 12, 2018 0:43:37 GMT -5
Out Government here in NZ has just announced that an enquiry into abuse, in State care institutions, will be widened to include faith based institutions and churches, communes and charities. What abuses are being covered? Being foulmouthed can be termed as abuse if directed at a person.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 1:42:22 GMT -5
Something for GS to think about. It will be law in Australia that a person who tries to cover up CSA, can be charged and receive 7 years gaol.
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Post by nathan on Nov 12, 2018 9:01:54 GMT -5
You need to provide some sermon on record that workers in Australia regard Jesus as "just a man". I don't believe your comment. All religions in the past have had an appalling record regarding CSA. Many are just now learning how to deal with it and should deserve credit for the effort to right things in that respect. Workers and religious leaders in many beliefs believe that salvation is a gift from God but also agree that salvation can be lost through ungodly works. We do not believe in predestination for or against salvation. That's a fair question. For many years, the local 2x2 doctrine has been (contrary to the Bible) that Jesus is not part of the Godhead along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Just prior to leaving around 2000, I spoke in a fellowship meeting about Thomas' faith journey and his experience in John 20:28 - he finally realised that Jesus was His Lord and God. Obviously, I didn't know in advance that the Head Worker Clyde Mackay would be in the meeting that day. Nothing was said but two weeks later he came back to the meeting (in Sydney) and at the start of testimony time publicly rebuked all of us for using current English in our prayers and then said "Two weeks ago a brother in this meeting (obviously referring to me but he didn't have the courage to say my name) said that Jesus was both Lord and God. I want everyone to know that this is false doctrine. Jesus on earth was the Son and was just a man...." Dial forward to mid 2015 when Graeme Dalton, senior New South Wales worker (now in South Australia), said the following (which was recorded) - "Jesus was (made) in our likeness and He was given a physical body. He was human when he was born into this world. While he lived here he was human. He wasn’t God but he understood the Spirit of God teaching him and guiding His life..." This is the doctrine of the 2x2's in Australia - Jesus was just a man on earth helped by the Spirit of God. I have come to understand over many years that 2x2 doctrine now in most parts of the world is that Jesus "is just a man who was the Son". Being "just a man" he was born with a sin nature, just like us. The Bible clearly rejects all of this. Of course, 2x2 doctrine preached by workers wasn't always like this. There are plenty of examples where workers have preached on the triune nature of God. One older female worker (now passed) in Victoria used to refer to the Holy Spirit on the platform as the "blessed third person of the Trinity..." The only place that I think the teaching is a little different is in New Zealand where the Head Worker there is clear on the complete divinity/deity of Jesus. On the issue of Child Sexual Abuse, the 2x2's here would lag other churches by about 20 years and very little is being done at all - their record in most parts of Australia (not all) leaves much to be desired. It deserves zero credit and condemnation. I am aware that 2x2's reject predestination. I don't think they understand what the Bible says at all in relation to it. I came to understand, based on many key passages, to reject predestination is to reject the sovereignty of God. He does the choosing, not us. In relation to the gift of salvation workers here do not believe a person is saved when they turn to Christ. People are clearly told they should feel confident that they are saved. However, the workers (because they are workers) indicated to many of us that they have complete confidence they are saved. It appears they do not want the ordinary rank and file to have complete trust in the death and resurrection of Christ as that which saves them. My wife and I, along with dozens of others at the time, decided that the 2x2 church is essentially all about their ministry. There are some decent workers, but even if they wanted to preach Biblical doctrine and truth, they can't. So a large number just moved to other churches where teaching lines up with the Bible and we can easily interact and discuss issues with Godly preachers/teachers who understand the Christian message, preach and live it. Of course, there are a number of professing folk (and I imagine a few workers sprinkled here and there) who understand what the Bible is saying, who Jesus is, how we are saved by His grace and His finished work in His death and resurrection. These professing folk, some on this Board, choose to stay for a variety of reasons which is great. But many of them make it clear to workers what the Bible says on various things and hopefully this will help workers to examine what they preaching and teaching. Last night in our gospel meetings the senior sister spoke about Heb. 1-5, she mentioned BOTH sides of Jesus, the Divinity/the Son of God/Christ who came down from heaven and incarnated his humanity/Son of man Jesus on earth. I am very glad she mentioned BOTH sides of Christ/Divinity and Jesus/man.
This senior sister and I have discussed The divinity of Christ many times, she heard my explanation on the subject and she agreed with me.
The workers should and MUST present both sides of the coins about Christ and Jesus clearly so it gives the clear understanding of who Christ and Jesus is BOTH God/came down from heaven and Man was begotten 2000 yrs ago to die for our sins.
The workers and the friends believe in Predestination but NOT they way the Baptists believe it.... Like God has chosen so and so SAVED before they were born.
We/2x2s believe God has predestined a spiritual family of God, and whosoever believes in Jesus as their Savior are SAVED. The individual has a choice to decide whether they are going to accept the gift of salvation. God will draw them to Himself but they must decide want to be born again or NOT to enter heaven.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 12, 2018 11:36:02 GMT -5
I heard this several times in NZ and thought it quite a weird comment.
In relation to the gift of salvation workers here do not believe a person is saved when they turn to Christ. People are clearly told they should feel confident that they are saved. However, the workers (because they are workers) indicated to many of us that they have complete confidence they are saved. It appears they do not want the ordinary rank and file to have complete trust in the death and resurrection of Christ as that which saves them.
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Post by openingact34 on Nov 12, 2018 12:45:46 GMT -5
To quote Ross, "...There is a lot of healing required because there is a large trust deficit." And that kids is the crux of the matter. Whether you believe or not or where you stand on a myriad number of issues. When I cannot trust the men I let into my home and have to do a background check via the coconut telegraph, there is an enormous problem. I would never let any other stranger have the freedom in my home that the workers have. That distrust then starts to bleed into other aspects of the organization. If I give them $ will they use it to shuffle a predator to another state or for a defense attorney?! Sounds more like a faith deficit. The workers spend much of their lives in direct communication with God through prayer. They have received detailed instructions about what clothes people can wear, places to preach at, which hairstyles are acceptable, that higher education is evil, what types of church buildings are ok, which careers are permitted, stocking colors, who to baptize, and who to excommunicate. If CSA was anything to worry about, surely God would have alerted them sometime in the last 120 years. Like Jesus said: "Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." - Matthew 10.
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Post by tuesday on Nov 14, 2018 14:47:47 GMT -5
Good morning, My understanding is that this worker's convention will take place in January 2020. I've asked a couple of professing folk and they've advised that you are correct - it is 2020. They indicated that when they first heard it, the automatic assumption was 2019 as it was 3 months away (at the time). They are now wondering why so far away but said they don't have to worry about it as they won't be invited to attend. 2020 is a long way away! Perhaps to ensure some don't have flights booked or gospel meeting halls booked at the time... that's all I can think of. Does anyone know if there have been workers conventions in Australia in the past or other parts of the world? I'm curious about what format they took place in, eg 2-3 meetings a day like our usual convention or would it be more discussion/questions/answers?
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Post by alistairhenderson on Nov 14, 2018 16:15:47 GMT -5
Softly, softly catchee monkey. When Willie Donaldson came out to patch up the local kingdom in the 1950s my dad recalls he started low-key, going around and visiting elders and their families one by one to listen and also promote the idea of reconciliation. This is not exactly the same issue, but I wonder if it is part of Graham's proposed modus operandi?
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Post by withlove on Nov 15, 2018 4:04:27 GMT -5
Thank you for linking to Steve's letter, Ross.
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Post by CherieKropp on Nov 15, 2018 10:48:31 GMT -5
Does anyone know if there have been workers conventions in Australia in the past or other parts of the world? I'm curious about what format they took place in, eg 2-3 meetings a day like our usual convention or would it be more discussion/questions/answers? Here are some previous Workers Conventions:
1928. The Australian Workers Convention was held in Sydney, NSW, for two days in January, at which all the Workers in the country (about 120) attended. A number of changes were made. 1927 had been an exceptional year for the Work, with 23 new names on the Australian Workers Lists. Jack Carroll (brother to Bill Carroll) was present from the Western U.S.. A number of changes and transfers were made in all states. This was before Ed Cooney was excommunicated in November 1928. 1964: The Australian Workers Convention was held in Sydney, NSW, in January 1964, and the Senior Worker present was Jack Jackson. Several Worker transfers were made between the states. Mary Turner was sent back to New Zealand—but, instead, left the Work. 1954: Sr. Australian Workers meeting at Guildford. About three months after Bill Carroll died on February 20–24, 1954, the two Senior Head Workers of Australia, John Hardie and Tom Turner, called a Meeting of all Head Workers in New Zealand and Australia at Guildford, NSW. Guildford was a Convention ground situated near Sydney. This was the first Meeting of the Heads of the various States in many years. Tom Turner led the Guildford Meeting of 11 Workers: John Hardie, J. Williamson, Chris Williams, Walter Pickering, Willie J. Hughes, John C. Baartz, R. Les Hawse, W. Schloss, Alec R. Mitchell and Harry Morgan. A report of the Meeting was prepared. The major issues addressed concerned Bill Carroll's successor; the exchange of Workers within Australia; cooperation of Victoria with the other Australian states; dealing with the Outcasts in Victoria and South Australia; and the Rosebud dwelling of Bill Carroll. The Workers "separated at Guildford with high hopes that unity and harmony would prevail and all would be well." After Chris Williams and Walter Pickering returned to Victoria, they held a Victorian Workers Meeting at Dandenong to discuss the Guildford Report. The Victorian Workers felt that the Meeting had been held to make a personal attack on the life and testimony of Bill Carroll. They also viewed the Meeting as an attempt by the other Heads of States to interfere with the Work in Victoria. They drew up a document expressing their viewpoints, signed by Chris Williams and delivered it to the Meetings in Victoria. Some Conventions were cancelled. Workers from other Australian states visiting in Victorian territory were considered intruders. In 1955, two South Australian and three New Zealand Workers were sent to preach in Victoria, but many did not welcome them. Eventually Chris Williams wrote John Hardie that: "a breach even greater, seems imminent….Could it not all not be withdrawn?" George Walker and Jack Forbes traveled to Australia to help reconcile the situation. Over a year later, on April 20, 1955, all the Senior Head Workers, including Victoria indicated that they regretted their actions and unconditionally withdrew their statements. Three items they agreed upon were: "Regarding the residence at Rosebud, we feel it is our duty to state that we cannot accept such an arrangement as a precedent that could be repeated." "We would add that in our opinion, when an Overseer in any State or Country, through infirmities or other circumstances is unable to personally carry out his responsibilities, he should call to his aid a Brother who has the approval and confidence of his Brethren and who can eventually assume the oversight. [They would] "find an impartial Brother from overseas who will supervise and cooperate in the Oversight of the Work in Victoria for such time as may be considered necessary." In late 1955, Chris Williams was replaced by Archie Turner, a Scotsman. Chris continued in the Work in Victoria. However, the situation was too much for Turner, and he returned to Scotland. Jack Forbes came and acted as the interim Head Worker for about six months until Willie Donaldson, age 57, from Ireland, arrived in August 1957. Donaldson was able to handle the situation and restored some harmony to the 2x2 Fellowship.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2018 18:45:35 GMT -5
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Post by speak on Nov 18, 2018 22:53:10 GMT -5
Why do you think he would want to look at that? It has nothing to do with us.
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Post by speak on Nov 21, 2018 21:53:06 GMT -5
Why do you think he would want to look at that? It has nothing to do with us. It should be obvious why he might look at it - there are direct parallels to the church GS now leads. Man you talk a load of twaddle. Next thing you will blame us for problems in other churches.
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Post by Pragmatic on Nov 21, 2018 22:22:23 GMT -5
It should be obvious why he might look at it - there are direct parallels to the church GS now leads. Man you talk a load of twaddle. Next thing you will blame us for problems in other churches. Obviously GS would not see it, because of the screening time. But I get exactly what Ross is saying. There are lessons to be learned from organisations that share many of the common traits with ours, whether it be with a Ministry that some overly revere, celibacy and the issues it brings, or a structure that suppresses dissent and as a result complaints. (I would say that in NZ, dissent is not suppressed)
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Post by sauerkraut on Nov 21, 2018 23:22:04 GMT -5
Just a further comment on changes occurring in Australia. I heard today that David Leitch (DL) is no longer the Head Worker in Victoria. The person who mentioned it to me didn't know whether he had "stood down" of his own volition or been "stood down" by someone else - possibly pressure from Graham Snow? ("Stood down" is an interesting 2x2 term in Australia - many professing folk over the years have been "stood down" by workers for various things - workers even though they might do significantly more serious things are rarely "stood down" by anyone). Anyway, for those who know him (I don't) Jim McLean has been appointed (not sure by whom) as DL's successor in Victoria. DL has been heavily criticised for a number of years based on his very poor handling of Child Sexual Abuse matters within the 2x2 fellowship in that state. Some will recall that Graham Thompson in his well known Auckland Special Meetings sermon a few years ago on Child Sexual Abuse referred to the poor handling of matters in Victoria. At the time, it resulted in Graham T being severely caned for commenting on another jurisdiction, but DL survived. someone said that its only temporary,most likely DL is still pulling the strings
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 22, 2018 2:34:53 GMT -5
2020 is a long way away! Perhaps to ensure some don't have flights booked or gospel meeting halls booked at the time... that's all I can think of. Does anyone know if there have been workers conventions in Australia in the past or other parts of the world? I'm curious about what format they took place in, eg 2-3 meetings a day like our usual convention or would it be more discussion/questions/answers? A couple of additional thoughts on why the January 2020 Australian Workers' Conference might be flagged now (apart from getting it in the diary). - It indicates a change to the status quo - things are going to be a little different from now - a sensible thing for a new leader to do. It's a subtle approach and as alistairhenderson just said it's similar to Willie Donaldson's approach. Apparently, the GS modus operandi is like this based on what others, including on this thread, have said - Even though it is a long way off, it sends an early message to State Head Workers and staff that Graham Snow is now leading things in Australia not long after he has take responsibility for Western Australia - Not all Head Workers in the eastern states of Australia are totally on board/supportive of the change in leadership. That's not surprising given some of the divisions in the eastern states historically. This point is completely factual. Rather than pushing to have a conference in January 2019, it allows time for any senior worker in the east who is not yet on board to be influenced to do so. The location is telling. The conference cannot be in Victoria. New South Wales is neutral ground in many ways and is central for flights from Victoria and Queensland. It makes little difference whether workers from South and West Australia fly to Sydney or Melbourne and Melbourne could not be the venue given politics/history involved. In addition, Maroota outside of Sydney has all the modern facilities, is fully air-conditioned etc. Steve Blubaugh who was in the work for many years in the USA (and was a very good preacher on the gospel of grace and grace generally - he had an understanding that very few workers have) has recently published his account based on decades in the work. It's gives key insights into the conduct of large worker meetings/conferences in the USA and is a fascinating read. www.thelibertyconnection.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=464:blubaugh-steve&catid=5:recent-exit-stories&Itemid=6 Fascinating read, indeed! That is putting mildly!
I thought I would read just a bit but had a very hard time letting it go. Will have to finish it later!
Having had both my father and a brother in the work I knew a bit of the inter workings but nothing like that!
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Post by Grant on Nov 22, 2018 11:19:28 GMT -5
Reading parts of Steve's testimony in the link above. My question is does 'the work' create dysfunctional people or does it attract dysfunctional people?
One conclusion I reach is that dysfunctional people stay while non dysfunctional leave after seeing the dysfunction. It weeds out the dysfunctional from the non dysfunctional.
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Post by friendly67 on Nov 25, 2018 17:06:20 GMT -5
There has been a ‘CHOGM’ (commonwealth heads of government) type meeting of head workers of Australia and New Zealand held every year around April - June to discuss logistics such as convention dates, visiting workers etc. I believe matters of doctrine are also discussed
It would make sense for GS to ‘visit fields’ before holding a workers meeting.
He has spoken very forcefully at West Australian conventions about Jesus bringing a new and better way. And only two ‘laws’. He constantly said love, not rules. Also mentioned that the word standard was not mentioned in the bible. If that is taken on board, there may be hope for new and better things.
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