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Post by speak on Jun 21, 2018 0:04:48 GMT -5
Can I suggest you speak with someone who lives there before you pass judgement....just an idea Oh so the Philippines are as bad as Pakistan are they ...... I thought they had faith that God would lead them ! Surely the Workers are suppose to be out there in the world sharing the Gospel ! Just goes to show just how devoid of knowledge about the fellowship you are.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 0:05:49 GMT -5
I have the deepest respect for Howitis, she is a wonderful lady, with a very liberal mind for a 2x2. My fear for a while has been if 2x2's are stopped from posting TMB will not be the same, and probably will not survive. It was with that in mind I started the thread " Where have all the 2x2,s gone". It will be a very sad day, if they are no longer on TMB.
Now I can understand what Howitis is saying re security, there is some credence in that . However as pointed out by Cherie the reason given in the letter was:
"We feel this will help our fellowship to be focused again on the simple truths of maintaining our relationship with God through prayer, reading the scripture, meditating, attending gospel meetings and fellowship meetings."
Now I am not so sure about that, intense mind control by Workers. My Wife has been invited by Sydney University to join a study group as part of a program " Maintain The Brain". First study of its type in the World. It is worth reading about it, and I will explain more on a new thread. But the ambition of this study is to find a way of maintaining mental health. So she is doing assignments over 3 years on the computer and the hope is it will help her brain health, that in turn helps complete body health. So yes our mind can be influenced by the information that goes into it. I am not sure that intense religion is the way to go, especially if you try to deny people social contact.
My conclusion is that rather than those Workers making an edict, and putting a ban on it, just give a warning about the security issue. Don't tell them to close their accounts, and to stop using. Workers should only give guidance, not make edicts, and let people make their own choices in their daily lives. Remember the 2x2 Church has no rules.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 0:07:05 GMT -5
Can I suggest you speak with someone who lives there before you pass judgement....just an idea Oh so the Philippines are as bad as Pakistan are they ...... I thought they had faith that God would lead them ! Surely the Workers are suppose to be out there in the world sharing the Gospel ! the southern philippines is a hot bed of islamic terrorism as nathan said....a number of westerners are now dead because of islam there...
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 21, 2018 0:09:23 GMT -5
Oh so the Philippines are as bad as Pakistan are they ...... I thought they had faith that God would lead them ! Surely the Workers are suppose to be out there in the world sharing the Gospel ! Just goes to show just how devoid of knowledge about the fellowship you are. Really speak . A bit like you trying to say the Holy Spirit told the workers to tell people to stay away from social media !!!
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 21, 2018 0:12:17 GMT -5
Oh so the Philippines are as bad as Pakistan are they ...... I thought they had faith that God would lead them ! Surely the Workers are suppose to be out there in the world sharing the Gospel ! the southern philippines is a hot bed of islamic terrorism as nathan said....a number of westerners are now dead because of islam there... So are the any workers in that actual area @wally ? If its that bad how do they even have access to the internet? Like I said we are not talking about Pakistan ! Does it even mention anything about for "safety reasons" in the letter ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 0:13:23 GMT -5
Just goes to show just how devoid of knowledge about the fellowship you are. Really speak . A bit like you trying to say the Holy Spirit told the workers to tell people to stay away from social media !!! are you suggesting the Holy Spirit doesn't give out warning about things that might not be all that healthy to be involved in?
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Post by speak on Jun 21, 2018 0:13:31 GMT -5
I have the deepest respect for Howitis, she is a wonderful lady, with a very liberal mind for a 2x2. My fear for a while has been if 2x2's are stopped from posting TMB will not be the same, and probably will not survive. It was with that in mind a started the thread " Where have all the 2x2,s gone". It will be a very sad day, if they are no longer on TMB. Now I can understand what Howitis is saying re security, there is some credence in that . However as pointed out by Cherie the reason given in the letter was: "We feel this will help our fellowship to be focused again on the simple truths of maintaining our relationship with God through prayer, reading the scripture, meditating, attending gospel meetings and fellowship meetings." Now I am not so sure about that, intense mind control by Workers. My Wife has been invited by Sydney University to join a study group as part of a program " Maintain The Brain". First study of its type in the World. It is worth reading about it, and I will explain more on a new thread. But the ambition of this study is to find a way of maintaining mental health. So she is doing assignments over 3 years on the computer and the hope is it will help her brain health. So yes our mind can be influenced by the information that goes into it. I am not sure that intense religion is the way to go, especially if you try to deny people social contact. My conclusion is that rather than those Workers making an edict, and putting a ban on it, just give a warning about the security issue. Don't tell them to close their accounts, and to stop using. Workers should only give guidance, not make edicts, and let people make their own choices in their daily lives. Remember the 2x2 Church has no rules. We only have to read the Bible to see all the edicts under the sun, set by God/Jesus/HolySpirit/Apostles/Fellow workers, even disciples. So everybody howls indignantly because the workers state something that is clearly in line with the spirit of God indicated in The Bible. ["We feel this will help our fellowship to be focused again on the simple truths of maintaining our relationship with God through prayer, reading the scripture, meditating, attending gospel meetings and fellowship meetings."]
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Post by speak on Jun 21, 2018 0:14:19 GMT -5
Just goes to show just how devoid of knowledge about the fellowship you are. Really speak . A bit like you trying to say the Holy Spirit told the workers to tell people to stay away from social media !!! See I told you.
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Post by speak on Jun 21, 2018 0:15:12 GMT -5
Really speak . A bit like you trying to say the Holy Spirit told the workers to tell people to stay away from social media !!! are you suggesting the Holy Spirit doesn't give out warning about things that might not be all that healthy to be involved in? Se doesn't know about The Holy Spirit.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 21, 2018 0:15:58 GMT -5
Really speak . A bit like you trying to say the Holy Spirit told the workers to tell people to stay away from social media !!! are you suggesting the Holy Spirit doesn't give out warning about things that might not be all that healthy to be involved in? Well @wally if it does there must be a lot of workers that take no notice !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 0:17:48 GMT -5
the southern philippines is a hot bed of islamic terrorism as nathan said....a number of westerners are now dead because of islam there... So are the any workers in that actual area @wally ? If its that bad how do they even have access to the internet? Like I said we are not talking about Pakistan ! Does it even mention anything about for "safety reasons" in the letter ? <iframe width="34.180000000000064" height="4.840000000000003" style="position: absolute; width: 34.180000000000064px; height: 4.840000000000003px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_5841428" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="34.180000000000064" height="4.840000000000003" style="position: absolute; width: 34.18px; height: 4.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1638px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_50670977" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="34.180000000000064" height="4.840000000000003" style="position: absolute; width: 34.18px; height: 4.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 181px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_45008015" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="34.180000000000064" height="4.840000000000003" style="position: absolute; width: 34.18px; height: 4.84px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1638px; top: 181px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_12858774" scrolling="no"></iframe> well if my uncle who was a worker in the philippines for 20 years travelled to many of the islands i imagine the workers get around the philippines quite well today...don't have a workers list to back that up though...the concept of safety doesn't have to include using the actual word safety...
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 21, 2018 0:18:01 GMT -5
are you suggesting the Holy Spirit doesn't give out warning about things that might not be all that healthy to be involved in? Se doesn't know about The Holy Spirit. speak I don't believe in the Holy Spirit ! But if a person does surely its not going to be so selective with what it "moves" people to do !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 0:19:48 GMT -5
are you suggesting the Holy Spirit doesn't give out warning about things that might not be all that healthy to be involved in? Well @wally if it does there must be a lot of workers that take no notice ! their only human, have you lived a perfect life by chance?
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 21, 2018 0:19:59 GMT -5
The rationale behind the worker's letter is completely the same as that employed by US Worker Ted Rozemer (who laboured in Central America) from the platform in some Australian Conventions he was a visitor at in the 1990's. He made it very clear in one of his sermons at the Silverdale Convention (near Sydney) that he: - did not encourage the Australian friends to write to the friends in his country - no photos were to be sent from Australia to where he laboured in Central America - in particular no wedding photos were to be sent because of the way married couples (read women) were dressing for Australian weddings (many in long white dresses etc) He said that he did not want what he described as his green patch in central America subject to outside worldly influences. It caused quite a stir and many friends gave very direct feedback to local workers and Ted was asked to tone it down. It seems the 2x2 senior workers in the Philippines are desperately trying to protect their "green patch" from outside western 2x2 influences. Global connections including current and ex-members make it impossible for workers to control messages and people's minds so hence the directive in the letter. It is nothing to do with overuse of social media or why schools may be trying to limit mobile device usage during school hours etc. It is also nothing to do with certain occupations not being allowed to have social media accounts for risk issues. In these cases, a police worker often establishes a profile under a different name and restricts public access to their Facebook/Instagram accounts to their personal friend connections. The letter from the workers is simply that they are trying to control their folk over there from outside influences. True Friends ia a closed global Facebook group. The letter also ignores the fact that many people personally communicate with others by Facebook Messenger. Telling people only to communicate by email and similar edicts is what you would expect from a dictatorship. I'm not surprised at all by the letter - these kind of messages have repeatedly occurred in the 2x2 church over the years whether it be in relation to radios, TV's, computers etc. Parents are responsible for making all these kinds of decisions in their own homes - they don't need worker edicts. People who staunchly support the workers will follow the edict, many will ignore it, some will openly deride - all resulting in less unity and more division. Summed it up Ross.Bowden !
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Post by howitis on Jun 21, 2018 0:23:20 GMT -5
this is simply a case of the glass half full or glass half empty.... No its a case of trying to justify the Workers still controlling peoples lives ..... the same as what happened in Vietnam ! Tell is what happened in Vietnam Roselyn T how you personally know it happened, not from something you read here or on Facebook not from something you heard, but something you know because you've spoken to BOTH sides of the fence.....tell us please do
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Post by magpie on Jun 21, 2018 0:23:44 GMT -5
The Cult strengthening their "grip" www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7mBbXxJYA ? Where is the Christlike mind? They have given the HOLY SPIRIT a big enough job in trying to reveal to the 2x2 Irvine seperating doctrine followers they must get freed of the exclusive illusive only way trap. "Then" allow Him to take control.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 21, 2018 0:24:36 GMT -5
Well @wally if it does there must be a lot of workers that take no notice ! their only human, have you lived a perfect life by chance? @wally that is the issue, some of the workers think that they are "closer to God' and perfect. No I have not lived a perfect life I know I am far from perfect !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 0:25:08 GMT -5
Speak with respect there in no edict about iPhones in the Bible I read. What you are saying is a typical Worker cop out.
Intense religious brainwashing is not the answer for a balanced life. You also need plenty of social contact with people other than 2x2's.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 0:27:42 GMT -5
their only human, have you lived a perfect life by chance? @wally that is the issue, some of the workers think that they are "closer to God' and perfect. No I have not lived a perfect life I know I am far from perfect ! ummm i'm gonna have to go with the workers on this one they spend far more time with God than you ever have...
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 21, 2018 0:27:46 GMT -5
No its a case of trying to justify the Workers still controlling peoples lives ..... the same as what happened in Vietnam ! Tell is what happened in Vietnam Roselyn T how you personally know it happened, not from something you read here or on Facebook not from something you heard, but something you know because you've spoken to BOTH sides of the fence.....tell us please do Haha a bit like you giving us both sides of the story about Doug Parker howitis ! If you really want to know I can give you the name of a couple of people in Vietnam that are on FACEBOOK !!!!
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 21, 2018 0:31:23 GMT -5
@wally that is the issue, some of the workers think that they are "closer to God' and perfect. No I have not lived a perfect life I know I am far from perfect ! ummm i'm gonna have to go with the workers on this one they spend far more time with God than you ever have... Of course you will @wally ..... can't have you thinking that the workers are "only human" can we
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Post by howitis on Jun 21, 2018 0:32:32 GMT -5
Can I suggest you speak with someone who lives there before you pass judgement....just an idea Oh so the Philippines are as bad as Pakistan are they ...... I thought they had faith that God would lead them ! Surely the Workers are suppose to be out there in the world sharing the Gospel ! I'm not sure about Pakistan, but I can tell you this much about the Philippines my friend, who is a Catholic, had a daughter go there to train as a nun, it nearly killed her!! There were many involved in getting her out....and they weren't all Catholics either....enough said.....Yes it's not such a good place. Please note there is no mention of any other country needing to follow this request .....and most of the content of the letter has been blown out of proportion......perhaps there is some here that can hear the bell ringing,
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Post by nathan on Jun 21, 2018 0:33:05 GMT -5
the southern philippines is a hot bed of islamic terrorism as nathan said....a number of westerners are now dead because of islam there... So are the any workers in that actual area @wally ? If its that bad how do they even have access to the internet? Like I said we are not talking about Pakistan ! Does it even mention anything about for "safety reasons" in the letter ? We have the same problem in Vietnam with the current gov't. The workers and friends are still very careful how they do things over there. They can't say and write whatever they want. They have a lot of problems in Southern part of the Philippines, the workers must tread very softly among the muslims, they can't convert any Muslims. The same in Malaysia, Pakistan and most Muslims countries.
We don't want to post any workers names or pictures in the Muslims countries on the Internet because their lives can be in danger.
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Post by howitis on Jun 21, 2018 0:34:06 GMT -5
Tell is what happened in Vietnam Roselyn T how you personally know it happened, not from something you read here or on Facebook not from something you heard, but something you know because you've spoken to BOTH sides of the fence.....tell us please do Haha a bit like you giving us both sides of the story about Doug Parker howitis ! If you really want to know I can give you the name of a couple of people in Vietnam that are on FACEBOOK !!!! Typical Roselyn T, you really have no idea....I am not on FACEBOOK
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Post by speak on Jun 21, 2018 0:38:48 GMT -5
Se doesn't know about The Holy Spirit. speak I don't believe in the Holy Spirit ! But if a person does surely its not going to be so selective with what it "moves" people to do ! How do you know?
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Post by speak on Jun 21, 2018 0:46:14 GMT -5
Speak with respect there in no edict about iPhones in the Bible I read. What you are saying is a typical Worker cop out. Intense religious brainwashing is not the answer for a balanced life. You also need plenty of social contact with people other than 2x2's. Who mentioned anything about the iphone apart from you? It is not about the artical but the affect of the artical. I bet you can't find one person in the fellowship who isn't interacting with other people outside the fellowship.
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Post by howitis on Jun 21, 2018 0:50:31 GMT -5
are you suggesting the Holy Spirit doesn't give out warning about things that might not be all that healthy to be involved in? I don’t think Ros is saying that at all. Many people over the years have heard “personal revelation from God” or “the direction of the Holy Spirit” used by workers as reason to justify certain decisions - even though some have been extremely poor decisions. While it’s natural in a exclusive and closed system for most members to defend the workers or postulate possible reasons for their decision - the letter is self-explanatory. It’s nothing to do with security in the Philippines. Tell us Ross.Bowden, if you lived in the Philippines (or for that matter any orher country that was dangerous), would you write a letter and in it mention the word security or protection, even if that was actually what the letter was about?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 0:50:49 GMT -5
are you suggesting the Holy Spirit doesn't give out warning about things that might not be all that healthy to be involved in? I don’t think Ros is saying that at all. Many people over the years have heard “personal revelation from God” or “the direction of the Holy Spirit” used by workers as reason to justify certain decisions - even though some have been extremely poor decisions. While it’s natural in a exclusive and closed system for most members to defend the workers or postulate possible reasons for their decision - the letter is self-explanatory. It’s nothing to do with security in the Philippines. your blowing smoke ross thats exactly what roselyn was implying... members of other churches defend their pastors, preachers and preists just as much as the 2x2 do...
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