|
Post by magpie on Apr 2, 2018 19:08:22 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Apr 2, 2018 19:17:37 GMT -5
It works Maggie and I was a bit taken aback by the headlines and introduction, then I kept reading.....it all seems a bit way off, but I guess can ever a person redeem themselves, can ever a person show they've changed, can ever a person obtain forgiveness, can ever a person be granted a passage to move on....perhaps these people can be granted their checks if other protocols are put into place....after all is it right that the grandchild of a child sex offender is punished by not having their grandparent at school functions because of what that grandparent did 4 or 5 decades ago? I don't have the answers, but questions aplenty!
|
|
|
Post by thelight on Apr 2, 2018 20:06:41 GMT -5
Allowing a convicted child sex offender to work with children is like an alcoholic surrounding themselves with their drink of choice - too much temptation! We are only human & if someone has offended in the past, how on earth is dangling a carrot on a stick in front of them like that going to help?! It is putting young lives at FAR too much risk and as a parent there are already enough things to worry about & try to protect children from without the possibility of having convicted sex offenders working with or in close proximity to them. Perhaps the convicted sex offenders should work with the children of those people who approve the applications & see how comfortable they feel about it!
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Apr 2, 2018 20:20:27 GMT -5
The particular case mentioned does not say the ruling was overturned so that he could gain employment in a sector where there are children!!! And that it is done on a case by case basis as I said obviously new protocols must be put into place, but how else does one even move on.....? There is also the instance of border hopping here which although is a national register seems to be a loophole for some. Also certain private businesses can be owned by offenders and require no she is or balances yet could have easy access to children....while ever these people are appealing they are still on the radar.
|
|
|
Post by thelight on Apr 2, 2018 20:30:35 GMT -5
but how else does one even move on.....? They move on by knowing what their weakness/temptation is (children) & consciously make the decision to stay as far away from them as possible. I presume alcoholics realise that it would be a silly idea to walk into a bottle shop.....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 20:33:48 GMT -5
but how else does one even move on.....? They move on by knowing what their weakness/temptation is (children) & consciously make the decision to stay as far away from them as possible. I presume alcoholics realise that it would be a silly idea to walk into a bottle shop..... thats really only possible if they are put on a deserted island....
|
|
|
Post by thelight on Apr 2, 2018 20:55:32 GMT -5
They move on by knowing what their weakness/temptation is (children) & consciously make the decision to stay as far away from them as possible. I presume alcoholics realise that it would be a silly idea to walk into a bottle shop..... thats really only possible if they are put on a deserted island.... Not really. It would just mean not loitering near day care centres, schools and any place where children congregate (sporting activities etc). And not putting themselves in a situation where their instincts can take over, for example don't go to the toy section of a store & engage in play/communication with children.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Apr 2, 2018 22:58:01 GMT -5
thats really only possible if they are put on a deserted island.... Not really. It would just mean not loitering near day care centres, schools and any place where children congregate (sporting activities etc). And not putting themselves in a situation where their instincts can take over, for example don't go to the toy section of a store & engage in play/communication with children. The man in this article mentioned wanted to go to his grandchilds school....not loiter......how many parents and grandparents already attend schools and sporting events where there are children? Is it possible among those there is an unconvicted child molester? Are we not better to have provisions put on this person and at least know? I know of an instance where a man was behaving strangely around some young children, he had been known as a child molester yet never caught, when a parent notified the police they were given the answer "he has no conviction so we can 't do anything".....when do you think rhis grandfather should be able to attend a special event of his grandchild's? Their university graduation? Their wedding?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 23:26:34 GMT -5
thats really only possible if they are put on a deserted island.... Not really. It would just mean not loitering near day care centres, schools and any place where children congregate (sporting activities etc). And not putting themselves in a situation where their instincts can take over, for example don't go to the toy section of a store & engage in play/communication with children. as far as i know loitering is not the only mode of operation for predators....children themselves are the trigger and children are everywhere....and do you really think that if we can't trust them to not prey on children they are going to "not put themselves in a situation where their instincts take over?"
|
|
|
Post by vanillagorilla on Apr 3, 2018 10:13:25 GMT -5
in the article it lists trafficking children as a less serious offense. What in the world of unspeakable child abuse is this?
"People with less serious offences like trafficking children, upskirting and armed robbery are given a permit unless the Department of Justice — which assesses the applications — believes there is an "unjustifiable" risk to children."
|
|
|
Post by vanillagorilla on Apr 3, 2018 10:16:03 GMT -5
This is about protecting children. I don't care if a convicted man cannot go into the school of his grandchild. This is not about him and his ability to do this. This is about protecting children and keeping that element out of the school. He can spend all the time he wants with his grandchild, but not in school.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Apr 3, 2018 11:55:56 GMT -5
This is about protecting children. I don't care if a convicted man cannot go into the school of his grandchild. This is not about him and his ability to do this. This is about protecting children and keeping that element out of the school. He can spend all the time he wants with his grandchild, but not in school. This type of discussion is the result of considering all people who have been accused of CSA pedophiles. Looking back at the person convicted of driving while intoxicated - it does not mean the person is an alcoholic and should never be around alcohol for the rest of their life. An 18 year old having sex with a 16 year old is not a pedophile, just a criminal guilty of statutory rape. There is no reason to think that such a person will re-offend.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Apr 3, 2018 18:03:37 GMT -5
Matt 7.2 comes to mind
|
|
|
Post by magpie on Apr 3, 2018 18:44:05 GMT -5
Thanks howitis,and vanillagorilla,love your support here. Notice how suddenly it is deviating into alcoholics. Alcholics can walk their grandchild into a school yard. odb.org/
|
|
|
Post by magpie on Apr 3, 2018 18:53:08 GMT -5
Do the 2x2 preachers and Worker/meeting Elders have a "Working with children" check (card) Because secular or religious belief teachings that influence childrens minds must be by an approved checked speaker/teacher. This also goes to "ALL" who speak on a Convention platform,doesn't it?? MMMMM? odb.org/
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Apr 3, 2018 20:26:44 GMT -5
Do the 2x2 preachers and Worker/meeting Elders have a "Working with children" check (card) Because secular or religious belief teachings that influence childrens minds must be by an approved checked speaker/teacher. This also goes to "ALL" who speak on a Convention platform,doesn't it?? MMMMM? odb.org/Not sure about ALL but the ones on our area do as do a few others I know of......was told yesterday of a twice convicted paedophile who has just got out of jail is back "helping" the altar boys at the Catholic church in the town he lives...Doesn't need a check as he doesn't preach or teach.......
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 20:28:00 GMT -5
Do the 2x2 preachers and Worker/meeting Elders have a "Working with children" check (card) Because secular or religious belief teachings that influence childrens minds must be by an approved checked speaker/teacher. This also goes to "ALL" who speak on a Convention platform,doesn't it?? MMMMM? odb.org/Not sure about ALL but the ones on our area do as do a few others I know of......was told yesterday of a twice convicted paedophile who has just got out of jail is back "helping" the altar boys at the Catholic church in the town he lives...Doesn't need a check as he doesn't preach or teach....... interesting loophole...ugh....
|
|
|
Post by rational on Apr 3, 2018 20:49:54 GMT -5
Do the 2x2 preachers and Worker/meeting Elders have a "Working with children" check (card) Because secular or religious belief teachings that influence childrens minds must be by an approved checked speaker/teacher. This also goes to "ALL" who speak on a Convention platform,doesn't it?? MMMMM? odb.org/Not sure about ALL but the ones on our area do as do a few others I know of......was told yesterday of a twice convicted paedophile who has just got out of jail is back "helping" the altar boys at the Catholic church in the town he lives...Doesn't need a check as he doesn't preach or teach....... Wat he really a 'twice convicted pedophile'? Or twice convicted of child sexual abuse?
|
|
|
Post by thelight on Apr 3, 2018 20:57:20 GMT -5
Unfortunately I don't believe the criminal history checks on those people applying for a working with children blue card are thorough enough. I know of someone (a professing member mind you...) who held one that had been charged with exposing himself to children.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Apr 3, 2018 21:10:03 GMT -5
Not sure about ALL but the ones on our area do as do a few others I know of......was told yesterday of a twice convicted paedophile who has just got out of jail is back "helping" the altar boys at the Catholic church in the town he lives...Doesn't need a check as he doesn't preach or teach....... Wat he really a 'twice convicted pedophile'? Or twice convicted of child sexual abuse? Well I guess the use of the word paedophile is the term loosely used by people in that community, and yes his conviction would have been CSA, whichever way it brings little comfort to the community in which he lives that he is out and about once again.....his last conviction was due to the vigilance of community members....this guy attends public gatherings like Christmas carol services that are held in the open, ANZAC day services etc and has been seen photographing the children!!!
|
|
|
Post by rational on Apr 3, 2018 21:36:22 GMT -5
Was he really a 'twice convicted pedophile'? Or twice convicted of child sexual abuse? Well I guess the use of the word paedophile is the term loosely used by people in that community, and yes his conviction would have been CSA, whichever way it brings little comfort to the community in which he lives that he is out and about once again.....his last conviction was due to the vigilance of community members....this guy attends public gatherings like Christmas carol services that are held in the open, ANZAC day services etc and has been seen photographing the children!!! Pedophilia is a mental illness that can be used as a defense. The majority of people convicted for CSA are not pedophiles. Pedophiles are frequently considered incurable. The recidivism rate for those convicted of sexual abuse is not that different from the recidivism rates for other criminals. The type of program being discussed here is probably the result of people looking at the data and not letting their emotions drive the bus.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Apr 3, 2018 22:12:39 GMT -5
Well I guess the use of the word paedophile is the term loosely used by people in that community, and yes his conviction would have been CSA, whichever way it brings little comfort to the community in which he lives that he is out and about once again.....his last conviction was due to the vigilance of community members....this guy attends public gatherings like Christmas carol services that are held in the open, ANZAC day services etc and has been seen photographing the children!!! Pedophilia is a mental illness that can be used as a defense. The majority of people convicted for CSA are not pedophiles. Pedophiles are frequently considered incurable. The recidivism rate for those convicted of sexual abuse is not that different from the recidivism rates for other criminals. The type of program being discussed here is probably the result of people looking at the data and not letting their emotions drive the bus. As I said the word paedophile is used loosely by the small community I guess to give a label to the concerns people have with this person. As he has been caught in the very act of CSA many are wary of his actions, yet he's been released into the community once again and is at the church not teaching or preaching, but "assisting" and being a small community....you guessed it the church is in the same enclosure as the school!
|
|
|
Post by vanillagorilla on Apr 4, 2018 10:51:52 GMT -5
Thanks howitis,and vanillagorilla,love your support here. Notice how suddenly it is deviating into alcoholics. Alcholics can walk their grandchild into a school yard. odb.org/Yep! Alcoholism is bad, but it is not sexual abuse of an innocent child. It is a different malady. A sober alcoholic may be at risk to relapse into taking another drink.
Apples and oranges in comparison
|
|
|
Post by rational on Apr 4, 2018 18:36:58 GMT -5
Thanks howitis,and vanillagorilla,love your support here. Notice how suddenly it is deviating into alcoholics. Alcholics can walk their grandchild into a school yard. odb.org/Yep! Alcoholism is bad, but it is not sexual abuse of an innocent child. It is a different malady. A sober alcoholic may be at risk to relapse into taking another drink.
Apples and oranges in comparison
The recidivism rate was the point. The charge of sexual abuse does not always involve children And, yes, it is a different malady. One involves mental or physical health problems and the other is a crime.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Apr 5, 2018 6:59:48 GMT -5
Unfortunately I don't believe the criminal history checks on those people applying for a working with children blue card are thorough enough. I know of someone (a professing member mind you...) who held one that had been charged with exposing himself to children. Yet they are the same checks that apply to most people in government occupations or people with access to children.....as most of them are done by the same few organisations.
|
|
xyz
Junior Member
Posts: 108
|
Post by xyz on Apr 5, 2018 7:45:16 GMT -5
Knew of a case in Wisconsin where a male 2&2 preacher left a public restroom saw His tan dress shirt was caught in his ziippered up fly, turned to face the rr door unzipped, replaced and rezipped, go arrested for exposure forbidden by overseer to defend himself in court, wound up with a sex related charge on his record forced to face the consequences of that The rest of his life. Sad case.
|
|
jjj
New Member
Posts: 13
|
Post by jjj on Apr 5, 2018 16:20:28 GMT -5
Pedophiles: A person with sustained sexual desires towards pre-pubescent children. www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/explaining-pedophilia#1 has very good points to it. Hebephile: A Person with sustained sexual desires towards children from about 11 to 14 years old. Ephebophiles: A person with sustained sexual desires towards children from about 15 to 16 years old. Teleiophiles: A person with sustained sexual desires towards children from about 17 to 18 years old. Infantophile: A person with sustained sexual desires towards infants. Child abuser: A person who mistreats a child (0-18 years old) sexually. What is my point? We mislabel people all the time. Professions believe that most child abusers are not pedophiles or any of the other terms. Most pedophiles (or the others) are not child abusers. Ask any professional who deals with his subject and they will tell you exactly this. Am I condoning any abuse towards children, NO. However, I want to speak up on this matter that I feel people so often take up with little or no understanding, but a lot of emotion. People with these feelings are clinically diagnosed with a mental disorder. Is a brain disease any different than heart disease, or cancer, etc? I say no. Does the pedophile wake up one morning and say "I think I want to be sexually attracted to children today." No more than a person who wakes up and says "I want to have a heart attack today." See the above link. With that said, how does society help these people not act on their feelings? Can you imagine a Pedophile Anonymous meeting? What kind of lynch mob would be waiting outside for them to exit (if they didn't burn down the place with everyone inside first). I feel that as a society we would be far better off for people who have these feelings to be free enough to get help so that it doesn't bottle up inside and then eventually spill out and harm another. To the child abuser issue. Why are most child abusers not pedophiles (or the like sort), but rather people with "healthy sexual" desires towards someone else their own age? Again, professionals in the line of treatment of these people will tell you that it is because children are easy targets where grown people are resistant. There are many, many underlying issues that are rarely addressed; depression, low self-esteem, being abused themselves as a child, and so on, that a person should be free to get help for before it leads up to wrong actions. Yet as a society we don't allow that to happen because of the stigma we have put on people with sustained sexual attractions toward children. Again, professionals who deal in this line of work will tell you that most people who come to them for help hate the attraction they have and have absolutely no desire to act upon it. In light of getting help for this mental disorder, yes, there is help. Again, as a society, we have made it very difficult for people to get help. Can a person who is a convicted child abuser get help and live in society as a healthy contributor to society? Yes, but the underlying issues have to be dealt with first. Shame on us for not allowing those who have gone through the daily process of seeking God's grace to not act on wrong thoughts and feeling from being just as free as we are. Do you know a pedophile? Yes. You just don't know they are one. Now that I've thrown gas on the fire, I'll step back and watch the blow up!
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Apr 5, 2018 17:39:10 GMT -5
JJJ, I would like to make it clear that most people who have been sexually abused as children do not go on to sexually abuse but yes a number of those who do abuse have been abused as children. But please make it clear that most victims/survivors do not go on to sexually abuse others.
Also, most perpretrators do not freely ask for help, one reason is fear of being reported which professionals in many countries have to do. Perpretrators are usually caught and made to get help by someone else. Denial is a common factor for perpretrators. Excuses, denials, blame the victim and plenty of other excuses.
|
|