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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 4, 2016 1:34:35 GMT -5
At their peak, there were about 300 Friends there. No outsider has professed there in 3 years. Now Peter has excommunicated some of the 75 remaining Friends. All the talk on other threads about Bert's supposed marriage made me think again about Revelation Chapter 19: "And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." Also in Ephesians, Chapter 5, starting with verse 25: "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." I was once in a home where one of the daughters was preparing for her upcoming wedding. She was pleased that she had lost 7 kg over the past several months in preparation for that special day, and wanted to look the best she could for her new husband. Oddly enough, nobody in the home said: "Why that's terrible! What a scandal! Now there is less of you!" When we hear claims that certain people were "excommunicated" in Sri Lanka, or so many left in Vietnam, we need not be dismayed. God is on the Throne and in control of all. We rejoice that He is providing sanctification and cleansing, and we should be so grateful for those precious servants like Peter who are helping the church "make herself ready". We can be assured that even as some leave, their leaving is helping the Bride is becoming even more precious and perfect for the Bridegroom. When toxic scoffers and enemies like Ross Bowden are put out or are led away, it is another wart or tumor being excised, that the church might be more holy and without blemish for that greatest of days. It may be hard for us to understand now how things are unfolding. Paul spoke in First Corinthians about seeing darkly, as through a glass. But in the meantime, whatever the situation, it would be wise for those in Sri Lanka and elsewhere to heed the sound counsel in Hebrews 13:17. "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." That verse in Corinthians you quoted is a wrong translation. Paul was referring to seeing his image indistinctly in a mirror. It is no surprise to me that you make this mistake. I have heard it countless times from workers who are too thick to understand these things.
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Post by Grant on Dec 4, 2016 3:34:26 GMT -5
I am sure 4dtruth is joking. No one could be that nieve. A controlling man gets the vote against a large number of God fearing people and instead of him being booted out for his ungodly behaviour 4dtruth supports it. That's if you believe what he says can be taken seriously. Of course it's a reminder of the old days and why we left. Exchanging truth for ungodly human behaviour like that shown by this worker
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Post by fixit on Dec 4, 2016 13:59:52 GMT -5
At their peak, there were about 300 Friends there. No outsider has professed there in 3 years. Now Peter has excommunicated some of the 75 remaining Friends. All the talk on other threads about Bert's supposed marriage made me think again about Revelation Chapter 19: "And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." Also in Ephesians, Chapter 5, starting with verse 25: "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." I was once in a home where one of the daughters was preparing for her upcoming wedding. She was pleased that she had lost 7 kg over the past several months in preparation for that special day, and wanted to look the best she could for her new husband. Oddly enough, nobody in the home said: "Why that's terrible! What a scandal! Now there is less of you!" When we hear claims that certain people were "excommunicated" in Sri Lanka, or so many left in Vietnam, we need not be dismayed. God is on the Throne and in control of all. We rejoice that He is providing sanctification and cleansing, and we should be so grateful for those precious servants like Peter who are helping the church "make herself ready". We can be assured that even as some leave, their leaving is helping the Bride is becoming even more precious and perfect for the Bridegroom. When toxic scoffers and enemies like Ross Bowden are put out or are led away, it is another wart or tumor being excised, that the church might be more holy and without blemish for that greatest of days. It may be hard for us to understand now how things are unfolding. Paul spoke in First Corinthians about seeing darkly, as through a glass. But in the meantime, whatever the situation, it would be wise for those in Sri Lanka and elsewhere to heed the sound counsel in Hebrews 13:17. "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." If you're serious about wanting the church holy and without blemish I suggest you start with purging child sexual abuse from the church and provide proper support for past victims. I hope you're not encouraging young people to submit themselves to workers like this man... www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/preacher-in-religious-sect-assaulted-boy-433352.htmlAs the judge said when he handed down the sentence: "it was a gross breach of trust, not to mention the hypocrisy of preaching to the sect and child by doing this behind their back".
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 4, 2016 14:22:52 GMT -5
At their peak, there were about 300 Friends there. No outsider has professed there in 3 years. Now Peter has excommunicated some of the 75 remaining Friends. It may be hard for us to understand now how things are unfolding. Paul spoke in First Corinthians about seeing darkly, as through a glass. But in the meantime, whatever the situation, it would be wise for those in Sri Lanka and elsewhere to heed the sound counsel in Hebrews 13:17. "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." Mindless obedience is not what is pictured in Hebrews 13. The church was well established when King James undertook to have the KJ Version translated. At that time, King James was the anointed head of the church. He gave some instructions to his translators. One was that the word "assembly" was to be translated as "church." The translators translated the KJV with their current church and its leader KJ in mind. Their translations of "obey" and "rule over" show their bias and prejudice. In Hebrews 13:7 & 17, the word "over" is not in the Greek--it was inserted by translators. RE: The word “Obey” or “Obey them” is the Greek word "peitho" (Strong's No. 3982). It appears in Scripture about 60 times. By far the most common translation for this Greek word in the KJV is “persuade,” “persuaded,” “persuadeth,” etc. Vine’s Expository Dictionary: “Peitho: to persuade, to win over; to be persuaded, to listen to, as in Acts 5:40 (passive voice). The obedience suggested is not by submission to authority, but resulting from persuasion." Thayer’s and Smith’s Greek Lexicon: “Peitho: To persuade; to induce one by words to believe; to make friends of, to win one's favor, gain one's good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one. To be persuaded, to suffer one's self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith in a thing; to believe."
Here are Hebrews 13:7 in other Bible versions which more correctly interpret the Greek. Compare the KJV meaning with the others - the meaning doesnt even come close: King James VersionRemember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. Aramaic English New Testament (Pesh-ta) Remember your guides who have spoken to you Elohim-inspired concepts; observe the perfection of their works and imitate their faith. New International Version Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. New Living Translation Remember your leaders who taught you the word of God. Think of all the good that has come from their lives, and follow the example of their faith. English Standard Version Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith. Berean Study Bible Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Berean Literal Bible Remember those leading you, who spoke the word of God to you, of whom, considering the outcome of their way of life, you are to imitate the faith. New American Standard Bible Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. Holman Christian Standard Bible Remember your leaders who have spoken God's word to you. As you carefully observe the outcome of their lives, imitate their faith. International Standard Version Remember your leaders, those who have spoken God's word to you. Think about the impact of their lives, and imitate their faith. NET Bible Remember your leaders, who spoke God's message to you; reflect on the outcome of their lives and imitate their faith. New Heart English Bible Remember your leaders, men who spoke to you the word of God, and considering the results of their conduct, imitate their faith. Aramaic Bible in Plain English Be mindful toward your Leaders who have spoken with you the word of God. Consider the results of their conduct and imitate their faith: GOD'S WORD® Translation Remember your leaders who have spoken God's word to you. Think about how their lives turned out, and imitate their faith. New American Standard 1977 Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. Jubilee Bible 2000 Remember your pastors, who have spoken unto you the word of God, whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation: King James 2000 Bible Remember them who have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their manner of life. American King James Version Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken to you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. American Standard Version Remember them that had the rule over you, men that spake unto you the word of God; and considering the issue of their life, imitate their faith. Douay-Rheims Bible Remember your prelates who have spoken the word of God to you; whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation, Darby Bible Translation Remember your leaders who have spoken to you the word of God; and considering the issue of their conversation, imitate their faith. English Revised Version Remember them that had the rule over you, which spake unto you the word of God; and considering the issue of their life, imitate their faith. Webster's Bible Translation Remember them who have the rule over you, who have spoken to you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their manner of life. Weymouth New Testament Remember your former leaders--it was they who brought you God's Message. Bear in mind how they ended their lives, and imitate their faith. World English Bible Remember your leaders, men who spoke to you the word of God, and considering the results of their conduct, imitate their faith. Young's Literal Translation Be mindful of those leading you, who did speak to you the word of God, whose faith -- considering the issue of the behaviour -- be imitating,
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Post by 4dtruth on Dec 4, 2016 20:31:43 GMT -5
It may be hard for us to understand now how things are unfolding. Paul spoke in First Corinthians about seeing darkly, as through a glass. But in the meantime, whatever the situation, it would be wise for those in Sri Lanka and elsewhere to heed the sound counsel in Hebrews 13:17. "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." Mindless obedience is not what is pictured in Hebrews 13. The church was well established when King James undertook to have the KJ Version translated. At that time, King James was the anointed head of the church. He gave some instructions to his translators. One was that the word "assembly" was to be translated as "church." The translators translated the KJV with their current church and its leader KJ in mind. Their translations of "obey" and "rule over" show their bias and prejudice. In Hebrews 13:7 & 17, the word "over" is not in the Greek--it was inserted by translators. RE: The word “Obey” or “Obey them” is the Greek word "peitho" (Strong's No. 3982). It appears in Scripture about 60 times. By far the most common translation for this Greek word in the KJV is “persuade,” “persuaded,” “persuadeth,” etc. Vine’s Expository Dictionary: “Peitho: to persuade, to win over; to be persuaded, to listen to, as in Acts 5:40 (passive voice). The obedience suggested is not by submission to authority, but resulting from persuasion." Thayer’s and Smith’s Greek Lexicon: “Peitho: To persuade; to induce one by words to believe; to make friends of, to win one's favor, gain one's good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one. To be persuaded, to suffer one's self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith in a thing; to believe."
Here are Hebrews 13:7 in other Bible versions which more correctly interpret the Greek. Compare the KJV meaning with the others - the meaning doesnt even come close: King James VersionRemember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. Aramaic English New Testament (Pesh-ta) Remember your guides who have spoken to you Elohim-inspired concepts; observe the perfection of their works and imitate their faith. New International Version Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. New Living Translation Remember your leaders who taught you the word of God. Think of all the good that has come from their lives, and follow the example of their faith. English Standard Version Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith. Berean Study Bible Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Berean Literal Bible Remember those leading you, who spoke the word of God to you, of whom, considering the outcome of their way of life, you are to imitate the faith. New American Standard Bible Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. Holman Christian Standard Bible Remember your leaders who have spoken God's word to you. As you carefully observe the outcome of their lives, imitate their faith. International Standard Version Remember your leaders, those who have spoken God's word to you. Think about the impact of their lives, and imitate their faith. NET Bible Remember your leaders, who spoke God's message to you; reflect on the outcome of their lives and imitate their faith. New Heart English Bible Remember your leaders, men who spoke to you the word of God, and considering the results of their conduct, imitate their faith. Aramaic Bible in Plain English Be mindful toward your Leaders who have spoken with you the word of God. Consider the results of their conduct and imitate their faith: GOD'S WORD® Translation Remember your leaders who have spoken God's word to you. Think about how their lives turned out, and imitate their faith. New American Standard 1977 Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. Jubilee Bible 2000 Remember your pastors, who have spoken unto you the word of God, whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation: King James 2000 Bible Remember them who have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their manner of life. American King James Version Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken to you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. American Standard Version Remember them that had the rule over you, men that spake unto you the word of God; and considering the issue of their life, imitate their faith. Douay-Rheims Bible Remember your prelates who have spoken the word of God to you; whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation, Darby Bible Translation Remember your leaders who have spoken to you the word of God; and considering the issue of their conversation, imitate their faith. English Revised Version Remember them that had the rule over you, which spake unto you the word of God; and considering the issue of their life, imitate their faith. Webster's Bible Translation Remember them who have the rule over you, who have spoken to you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their manner of life. Weymouth New Testament Remember your former leaders--it was they who brought you God's Message. Bear in mind how they ended their lives, and imitate their faith. World English Bible Remember your leaders, men who spoke to you the word of God, and considering the results of their conduct, imitate their faith. Young's Literal Translation Be mindful of those leading you, who did speak to you the word of God, whose faith -- considering the issue of the behaviour -- be imitating, I'm surely giving away my age here, but I have the amusing image in my head of your parlor table sagging and ready to collapse from 37 different translations of the Bible piled high. Before destroying any furniture (or downloading more digital versions) it would be wise to ask the question: "Why is there a thing called 'translation' in the first place?" In Chapter 11 of Genesis, we read how once all the people of earth were one, and had one language, before they defied the will of God and tried to build a tower reaching to heaven. It was God who scattered the people, and confounded our languages, necessitating translation. Translations were part of God's perfect plan! He knew from the beginning that the scriptures would need to be translated from tongue to tongue. As Paul wrote, "God is not the author of confusion", and we know that there is nothing more precious in this world than the Word of God. So when we observe that the KJV has been dominant for 400 years in the English world, it is absurd to conclude that God would allow this scripture to be distorted in the most important printing ever! Rather, we should consider why He might guide a different emphasis. Recall the messages to the different churches in the Revelation? Is it possible that God might use different translations to target specific messages to certain peoples. I believe it is! Consider the English speaking world emerging from the British Isles that the KJV was intended for. This was a people of rebels, who had problems respecting authority. In North America, colonists rejected an earthly king, creating new, unbiblical systems of government, and along the developing frontier, lawlessness reigned. The moral decay only continued to accelerate to the present day, as police officers are shot at and spit upon. We should therefore not be surprised that God recognized it would be important to emphasize respect for authority, moreso than in Asia, for example. Of course this is just one verse. Pick any translation and consider 1 Corinthians 5:1-6. Paul clearly communicated that he was judging the immoral man even though he wasn't there in person, and instructing them to excommunicate this man and deliver him to Satan. The words, the actions in the first century Church themselves are a testament to the power and authority carried by the responsible workers. You can present a pile of Bible translations as high as the Tower of Babel, but they won't excuse a rebellious spirit and unwillingness for submission.
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 4, 2016 21:32:41 GMT -5
Matthew 20:25-28. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."It shall NOT be so among you." A true servant of God leads, or persuades those in the assembly to humble themselves and be servants one to another—they don’t "exercise dominion" over anyone in their care. They are rather "helpers of their joy." Paul said in 2 Corinthians 1:24 “NOT for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.”Graham Thompson wrote Alan Richardson regarding this issue of those who think it is their right and place to "rule over": All authority, honour, power, glory, might and dominion rests only with Christ, and to preach otherwise is to give honour to another which must only be unto Him. There is but one Head over the body, but you have made yourselves heads over the people and even dare to give directions and commandment in your own names (referring particularly to Robin, you, and Alan Kitto as cases in point).
The consequence of this belief in an anointed eldership is that certain men are put in the position of demi-gods; they are given honour which never should belong to any other than Christ, they dispense favours for advantage, they rule with authority, they act with impunity, they make decisions which they feel no-one has the right to question, and they feel that they have a place and power and privilege, all on the basis of Divine authority which makes them untouchable and answerable to nobody. It makes men to become just the same as the pope, making them to be looked up to as the vicar of Christ instead of looking directly to Christ Himself.
It has brought the whole ministry and fellowship into great bondage, and if it is not dealt with it will result in the Lord withdrawing His Spirit from amongst us and result in the death of the fellowship. We believe in and try to follow the One Who always brought Himself down, always served, always took the humble place and taught His disciples to do the same, yet here we have a group of men who are lifted up above their brethren, who rule with force and cruelty, who make use of the flock to elevate themselves – all in the Name of the One Who made Himself of no reputation.
The full context of GT's letter is quite lengthy and may be read at: professing.proboards.com/post/573728posted by stevnz on TMB on Thread: Graham Thompson and the Overseers Dated: Feb 16, 2014 at 3:18am
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gustaf
Junior Member
I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house down !!!
Posts: 82
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Post by gustaf on Dec 4, 2016 21:43:08 GMT -5
Matthew 20:25-28. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."It shall NOT be so among you." A true servant of God leads, or persuades those in the assembly to humble themselves and be servants one to another—they don’t "exercise dominion" over anyone in their care. They are rather "helpers of their joy." Paul said in 2 Corinthians 1:24 “NOT for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.”Alan Richardson's words this issue of those who think it is their right and place to "rule over": All authority, honour, power, glory, might and dominion rests only with Christ, and to preach otherwise is to give honour to another which must only be unto Him. There is but one Head over the body, but you have made yourselves heads over the people and even dare to give directions and commandment in your own names (referring particularly to Robin, you, and Alan Kitto as cases in point).
The consequence of this belief in an anointed eldership is that certain men are put in the position of demi-gods; they are given honour which never should belong to any other than Christ, they dispense favours for advantage, they rule with authority, they act with impunity, they make decisions which they feel no-one has the right to question, and they feel that they have a place and power and privilege, all on the basis of Divine authority which makes them untouchable and answerable to nobody. It makes men to become just the same as the pope, making them to be looked up to as the vicar of Christ instead of looking directly to Christ Himself.
It has brought the whole ministry and fellowship into great bondage, and if it is not dealt with it will result in the Lord withdrawing His Spirit from amongst us and result in the death of the fellowship. We believe in and try to follow the One Who always brought Himself down, always served, always took the humble place and taught His disciples to do the same, yet here we have a group of men who are lifted up above their brethren, who rule with force and cruelty, who make use of the flock to elevate themselves – all in the Name of the One Who made Himself of no reputation.
You can say that again
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Post by 4dtruth on Dec 4, 2016 21:59:56 GMT -5
Matthew 20:25-28. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."It shall NOT be so among you." A true servant of God leads, or persuades those in the assembly to humble themselves and be servants one to another—they don’t "exercise dominion" over anyone in their care. They are rather "helpers of their joy." Paul said in 2 Corinthians 1:24 “NOT for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.”Alan Richardson's words this issue of those who think it is their right and place to "rule over": All authority, honour, power, glory, might and dominion rests only with Christ, and to preach otherwise is to give honour to another which must only be unto Him. There is but one Head over the body, but you have made yourselves heads over the people and even dare to give directions and commandment in your own names (referring particularly to Robin, you, and Alan Kitto as cases in point).
The consequence of this belief in an anointed eldership is that certain men are put in the position of demi-gods; they are given honour which never should belong to any other than Christ, they dispense favours for advantage, they rule with authority, they act with impunity, they make decisions which they feel no-one has the right to question, and they feel that they have a place and power and privilege, all on the basis of Divine authority which makes them untouchable and answerable to nobody. It makes men to become just the same as the pope, making them to be looked up to as the vicar of Christ instead of looking directly to Christ Himself.
It has brought the whole ministry and fellowship into great bondage, and if it is not dealt with it will result in the Lord withdrawing His Spirit from amongst us and result in the death of the fellowship. We believe in and try to follow the One Who always brought Himself down, always served, always took the humble place and taught His disciples to do the same, yet here we have a group of men who are lifted up above their brethren, who rule with force and cruelty, who make use of the flock to elevate themselves – all in the Name of the One Who made Himself of no reputation.
As usual, you didn't get permission to post it, and then took a small portion out of context, but do please at least try to get the attribution correct... This was from a letter TO Alan Richardson. The AUTHOR of the letter was Graham Thompson. These are NOT "Alan Richardson's words".
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 4, 2016 22:10:09 GMT -5
This was from a letter TO Alan Richardson. The AUTHOR of the letter was Graham Thompson. These are NOT "Alan Richardson's words". Thanks for the correction. I have corrected my post above. My notes have it correctly attributed...
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Post by 4dtruth on Dec 4, 2016 23:18:39 GMT -5
In today's world, one out of three (after a redo) is a passing grade. You may even get a shiny trophy. "World's Best Historian". Something along those lines.
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 5, 2016 10:17:45 GMT -5
In today's world, one out of three (after a redo) is a passing grade. You may even get a shiny trophy. "World's Best Historian". Something along those lines. Your insistence on full context for quotes is not practical...and does not have a precedent in the Bible. There are 855 times the OT is quoted within the NT without full contexts. (per BlueLetter Bible website - www.blueletterbible.org/study/pnt/pnt08.cfm_The authors of the NT did not provide full context, chapters or books. Jesus quoted OT scripture a number of times: Isaiah 40:3-5; Psalms 8:2; 118:22-23 and many more. His short quotes did not contain the entire context; yet were perfectly sufficient, within context, and were sometimes used as answers to questions. The full context of GT's letter is quite lengthy and may be read at: professing.proboards.com/post/573728posted by stevnz on TMB on Thread: Graham Thompson and the Overseers Dated: Feb 16, 2014 at 3:18am
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Post by Admin on Dec 5, 2016 11:59:29 GMT -5
I remind TMB members of the rules of the board - stick to the topic, posts off-topic may be removed by the admin team. Thank you, admin
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 5, 2016 12:25:45 GMT -5
I have been advised today by a Sri Lankan and given permission to post that:
Peter Morrison is very upset that the Workers may not get their visas renewed.
He told the Friend he suspects is responsible for this:
"You have still not seen me fully angry. You have joined the crows and will be shot down with the crows."
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Post by fixit on Dec 5, 2016 13:01:44 GMT -5
I appreciate as a senior NZ worker that you want people to stay in your sect and that you will pump out all kinds of evil warnings about what might happen to people if they leave. A New Zealand worker with 4dtruth's attitude wouldn't last long.
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Post by rational on Dec 5, 2016 13:03:01 GMT -5
In today's world, one out of three (after a redo) is a passing grade. You may even get a shiny trophy. "World's Best Historian". Something along those lines. Your insistence on full context for quotes is not practical...and does not have a precedent in the Bible. There are 855 times the OT is quoted within the NT without full contexts. (per BlueLetter Bible website - www.blueletterbible.org/study/pnt/pnt08.cfm_The authors of the NT did not provide full context, chapters or books. Jesus quoted OT scripture a number of times: Isaiah 40:3-5; Psalms 8:2; 118:22-23 and many more. His short quotes did not contain the entire context; yet were perfectly sufficient, within context, and were sometimes used as answers to questions. Even when the 'quoted' material does not exist in the scriptures.
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Post by rational on Dec 5, 2016 13:04:46 GMT -5
I have been advised today by a Sri Lankan and given permission to post that: Peter Morrison is very upset that the Workers may not get their visas renewed. He told the Friend he suspects is responsible for this: "You have still not seen me fully angry. You have joined the crows and will be shot down with the crows." That sounds like a threat...
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Post by fixit on Dec 5, 2016 13:16:17 GMT -5
I have been advised today by a Sri Lankan and given permission to post that: Peter Morrison is very upset that the Workers may not get their visas renewed. He told the Friend he suspects is responsible for this: "You have still not seen me fully angry. You have joined the crows and will be shot down with the crows." Sri Lanka could prove to be a valuable lesson for authoritarian workers.
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Post by mouse56 on Dec 5, 2016 13:48:08 GMT -5
Oliver Cromwell's words to the "Rump" Parliament (London, 1653)seem very appropriate as advice to this pestilential Peter Morrison:
"You have been sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!" (Oliver Cromwell, addressing the Rump Parliament, April 1653).
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Post by learning on Dec 5, 2016 13:54:34 GMT -5
I have been advised today by a Sri Lankan and given permission to post that: Peter Morrison is very upset that the Workers may not get their visas renewed. He told the Friend he suspects is responsible for this: "You have still not seen me fully angry. You have joined the crows and will be shot down with the crows." Cherie, What is your understanding of how the authorities first became aware of 2x2? I read through quickly and maybe I missed the part of this thread that specifically connects the "75 excommunicated Friends" to the fact that the Workers visa renewal appears to be in jeopardy. Were some excommunicated and they then made authorities aware of the fellowship?
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 5, 2016 14:29:01 GMT -5
I have been advised today by a Sri Lankan and given permission to post that: Peter Morrison is very upset that the Workers may not get their visas renewed. He told the Friend he suspects is responsible for this: "You have still not seen me fully angry. You have joined the crows and will be shot down with the crows." Cherie, What is your understanding of how the authorities first became aware of 2x2? I read through quickly and maybe I missed the part of this thread that specifically connects the "75 excommunicated Friends" to the fact that the Workers visa renewal appears to be in jeopardy. Were some excommunicated and they then made authorities aware of the fellowship? Sorry - I remain in the dark about your questions also. I think they may have started having visa issues sometime after new Overseer Peter Morrison arrived in Sri Lanka and began handling the workers' visas himself. Previously for some time, a professing businessman had been handling the workers visas while the previous Overseer John Blair was in charge. John Blair has cancer and not in good health at all. Correction - there were 75 SL friends all total when peter arrived in SL. I am given to understand that about half have been excommunicated by Peter or have left or are in process of leaving.
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Post by fixit on Dec 5, 2016 16:12:09 GMT -5
Cherie, What is your understanding of how the authorities first became aware of 2x2? I read through quickly and maybe I missed the part of this thread that specifically connects the "75 excommunicated Friends" to the fact that the Workers visa renewal appears to be in jeopardy. Were some excommunicated and they then made authorities aware of the fellowship? Sorry - I remain in the dark about your questions also. I think they may have started having visa issues sometime after new Overseer Peter Morrison arrived in Sri Lanka and began handling the workers' visas himself. Previously for some time, a professing businessman had been handling the workers visas while the previous Overseer John Blair was in charge. John Blair has cancer and not in good health at all. Correction - there were 75 SL friends all total when peter arrived in SL. I am given to understand that about half have been excommunicated by Peter or have left or are in process of leaving. Sounds like an easy solution would be to permanently withdraw Peter from Sri Lanka. Would "taking care of health" be an acceptable reason?
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Post by friendly67 on Dec 5, 2016 16:28:33 GMT -5
Oliver Cromwell's words to the "Rump" Parliament (London, 1653)seem very appropriate as advice to this pestilential Peter Morrison: "You have been sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!" (Oliver Cromwell, addressing the Rump Parliament, April 1653). Sounds like someone needs a good spanking on the rump. to be fair, I don't think he bared said rump, but it was disrespectful, and pestilential no doubt. off to check my dictionary..
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Post by 4dtruth on Dec 6, 2016 0:07:37 GMT -5
I remind TMB members of the rules of the board - stick to the topic, posts off-topic may be removed by the admin team. Thank you, admin Right... When the government and people are being stirred up against the workers, Cherie Kropp gleefully publically posts all the personal information about them that she can lay her hands on. Names, phone numbers, locations, nationalities, even editorials on their health. All without a "permission to print" statement. But the important thing is that we "stick to the topic". You'll be receiving your 30 pieces of silver from Telling the Truth in six to eight business days. Please see your email for the shipment tracking information.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Dec 6, 2016 3:36:18 GMT -5
Mindless obedience is not what is pictured in Hebrews 13. The church was well established when King James undertook to have the KJ Version translated. At that time, King James was the anointed head of the church. He gave some instructions to his translators. One was that the word "assembly" was to be translated as "church." The translators translated the KJV with their current church and its leader KJ in mind. Their translations of "obey" and "rule over" show their bias and prejudice. In Hebrews 13:7 & 17, the word "over" is not in the Greek--it was inserted by translators. RE: The word “Obey” or “Obey them” is the Greek word "peitho" (Strong's No. 3982). It appears in Scripture about 60 times. By far the most common translation for this Greek word in the KJV is “persuade,” “persuaded,” “persuadeth,” etc. Vine’s Expository Dictionary: “Peitho: to persuade, to win over; to be persuaded, to listen to, as in Acts 5:40 (passive voice). The obedience suggested is not by submission to authority, but resulting from persuasion." Thayer’s and Smith’s Greek Lexicon: “Peitho: To persuade; to induce one by words to believe; to make friends of, to win one's favor, gain one's good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one. To be persuaded, to suffer one's self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith in a thing; to believe."
Here are Hebrews 13:7 in other Bible versions which more correctly interpret the Greek. Compare the KJV meaning with the others - the meaning doesnt even come close: King James VersionRemember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. Aramaic English New Testament (Pesh-ta) Remember your guides who have spoken to you Elohim-inspired concepts; observe the perfection of their works and imitate their faith. New International Version Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. New Living Translation Remember your leaders who taught you the word of God. Think of all the good that has come from their lives, and follow the example of their faith. English Standard Version Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith. Berean Study Bible Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Berean Literal Bible Remember those leading you, who spoke the word of God to you, of whom, considering the outcome of their way of life, you are to imitate the faith. New American Standard Bible Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. Holman Christian Standard Bible Remember your leaders who have spoken God's word to you. As you carefully observe the outcome of their lives, imitate their faith. International Standard Version Remember your leaders, those who have spoken God's word to you. Think about the impact of their lives, and imitate their faith. NET Bible Remember your leaders, who spoke God's message to you; reflect on the outcome of their lives and imitate their faith. New Heart English Bible Remember your leaders, men who spoke to you the word of God, and considering the results of their conduct, imitate their faith. Aramaic Bible in Plain English Be mindful toward your Leaders who have spoken with you the word of God. Consider the results of their conduct and imitate their faith: GOD'S WORD® Translation Remember your leaders who have spoken God's word to you. Think about how their lives turned out, and imitate their faith. New American Standard 1977 Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. Jubilee Bible 2000 Remember your pastors, who have spoken unto you the word of God, whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation: King James 2000 Bible Remember them who have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their manner of life. American King James Version Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken to you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. American Standard Version Remember them that had the rule over you, men that spake unto you the word of God; and considering the issue of their life, imitate their faith. Douay-Rheims Bible Remember your prelates who have spoken the word of God to you; whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation, Darby Bible Translation Remember your leaders who have spoken to you the word of God; and considering the issue of their conversation, imitate their faith. English Revised Version Remember them that had the rule over you, which spake unto you the word of God; and considering the issue of their life, imitate their faith. Webster's Bible Translation Remember them who have the rule over you, who have spoken to you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their manner of life. Weymouth New Testament Remember your former leaders--it was they who brought you God's Message. Bear in mind how they ended their lives, and imitate their faith. World English Bible Remember your leaders, men who spoke to you the word of God, and considering the results of their conduct, imitate their faith. Young's Literal Translation Be mindful of those leading you, who did speak to you the word of God, whose faith -- considering the issue of the behaviour -- be imitating, I'm surely giving away my age here, but I have the amusing image in my head of your parlor table sagging and ready to collapse from 37 different translations of the Bible piled high. Before destroying any furniture (or downloading more digital versions) it would be wise to ask the question: "Why is there a thing called 'translation' in the first place?" In Chapter 11 of Genesis, we read how once all the people of earth were one, and had one language, before they defied the will of God and tried to build a tower reaching to heaven. It was God who scattered the people, and confounded our languages, necessitating translation. Translations were part of God's perfect plan! He knew from the beginning that the scriptures would need to be translated from tongue to tongue. As Paul wrote, "God is not the author of confusion", and we know that there is nothing more precious in this world than the Word of God. So when we observe that the KJV has been dominant for 400 years in the English world, it is absurd to conclude that God would allow this scripture to be distorted in the most important printing ever! Rather, we should consider why He might guide a different emphasis. Recall the messages to the different churches in the Revelation? Is it possible that God might use different translations to target specific messages to certain peoples. I believe it is! Consider the English speaking world emerging from the British Isles that the KJV was intended for. This was a people of rebels, who had problems respecting authority. In North America, colonists rejected an earthly king, creating new, unbiblical systems of government, and along the developing frontier, lawlessness reigned. The moral decay only continued to accelerate to the present day, as police officers are shot at and spit upon. We should therefore not be surprised that God recognized it would be important to emphasize respect for authority, moreso than in Asia, for example. Of course this is just one verse. Pick any translation and consider 1 Corinthians 5:1-6. Paul clearly communicated that he was judging the immoral man even though he wasn't there in person, and instructing them to excommunicate this man and deliver him to Satan. The words, the actions in the first century Church themselves are a testament to the power and authority carried by the responsible workers. You can present a pile of Bible translations as high as the Tower of Babel, but they won't excuse a rebellious spirit and unwillingness for submission. Your paragraph about Genesis 11 is correct and why the bible should only be treated as a history and rule book of a group of tribesman from a wee area of the world. It is so unfortunate that it has such a hold on the world today.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 8:09:30 GMT -5
I remind TMB members of the rules of the board - stick to the topic, posts off-topic may be removed by the admin team. Thank you, admin Right... When the government and people are being stirred up against the workers, Cherie Kropp gleefully publically posts all the personal information about them that she can lay her hands on. Names, phone numbers, locations, nationalities, even editorials on their health. All without a "permission to print" statement. But the important thing is that we "stick to the topic". You'll be receiving your 30 pieces of silver from Telling the Truth in six to eight business days. Please see your email for the shipment tracking information. Bert in disguise? Surely!
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Post by learning on Dec 6, 2016 8:14:47 GMT -5
I remind TMB members of the rules of the board - stick to the topic, posts off-topic may be removed by the admin team. Thank you, admin Right... When the government and people are being stirred up against the workers, Cherie Kropp gleefully publically posts all the personal information about them that she can lay her hands on. Names, phone numbers, locations, nationalities, even editorials on their health. All without a "permission to print" statement. But the important thing is that we "stick to the topic". You'll be receiving your 30 pieces of silver from Telling the Truth in six to eight business days. Please see your email for the shipment tracking information. From what I can see, Cherie presents facts as she sees them without the snarky attitude that your posts are plastered with. Based on the attitude communicated in your respective posts, I would rather spend time with her than with you, which says a lot if you are a 'member' claiming to be on the right side of things.
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Post by CherieKropp on Dec 6, 2016 9:07:01 GMT -5
When the government and people are being stirred up against the workers... If the workers obeyed their laws, as the Bible instructs, would the government be stirred up?
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Post by rational on Dec 6, 2016 11:03:12 GMT -5
If the workers obeyed their laws, as the Bible instructs, would the government be stirred up? Can you tell us Which law did the workers break with the Sri Lanka gov't?Didn't you read the original post? Among the accusations leveled against them is evasion of the National Christian Council (NCC) or the Evangelical Alliance for the purpose of registration.
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