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Post by rational on May 19, 2016 8:21:34 GMT -5
nathan, wow that a big statement to make " Myself and others have been called and chosen by God in this generation to record and write what we have seen and experienced." Considering you have no way of backing it up ! Religious believers do not often subscribe to the requirement of backing up their claims. But then, they have no need to do so as long as they acknowledge their beliefs are based on faith and not facts.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 19, 2016 13:51:26 GMT -5
Read it again then. It clearly comes to the conclusion that the story is a fabrication. Do not confuse the story of Jonah with the one spoken about in the article. Yes, the story in 1891 of a sailor swallowed by a whale is a hoax/fabrication ... but Jonah swallowed by a BIG fish and lived to talk about is NOT a fabrication. Jesus/God used his own death and resurrection to compare with when Jonah swallowed by a big fish belly for 3 days and nights. Forget the story in 1891. Do you believe in Jonah, who was swallowed in the Big fish belly a HOAX or a historical fact?I do not believe the Jonah story either. I think the bible is no more than a history of the Jewish people with a bit of fantasy thrown in.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 19, 2016 13:53:39 GMT -5
Read it again then. It clearly comes to the conclusion that the story is a fabrication. Do not confuse the story of Jonah with the one spoken about in the article. Yes, the story in 1891 of a sailor swallowed by a whale is a hoax/fabrication ... but Jonah swallowed by a BIG fish and lived to talk about is NOT a fabrication. Jesus/God used his own death and resurrection to compare with when Jonah swallowed by a big fish belly for 3 days and nights. Forget the story in 1891. Do you believe in Jonah, who was swallowed in the Big fish belly a HOAX or a historical fact?So why did you quote it then in the first place in support of the Jonah story?
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 17:44:30 GMT -5
So why did you quote it then in the first place in support of the Jonah story? I didn't read all of the article at first, after you asked me to read it again then I realized others believed it was a hoax. Then I began to ponder about Jonah's story again and why did Jesus compare his own death, resurrection to Jonah swallowed by a BIG fish if it wasn't TRUE.
If I were Jesus I would NEVER use a myth, hoax, fabrication story to illustrate an important point. I don't think Jesus would do that either. I wouldn't be surprised it was Christ who sent the Big fish to swallow up Jonah so he could use that story to illustrate his own death and resurrection.
Nathan You have committed a common problem. First off, you assumed that ALL of the things in the Bible are TRUE - which is completely wrong. Not ALL are true, particularly the parts which are 'historical'. Here is where the problem really gets traction - people have confusion about what 'History' is. History is not TRUTH. It could be, but it is not. History is a NARRATIVE told about the past by someone. The practice of HISTORY has gotten more accurate in Western Civilization in recent centuries, but for many centuries HISTORY was regarded even by learned people as not completely TRUE, but a decent narrative about the past which served a purpose. You and others are superimposing your 21st century conception about what HISTORY is onto HISTORY produced 2000 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 17:59:58 GMT -5
Nathan You have committed a common problem. First off, you assumed that ALL of the things in the Bible are TRUE - which is completely wrong. Not ALL are true, particularly the parts which are 'historical'. Here is where the problem really gets traction - people have confusion about what 'History' is. History is not TRUTH. It could be, but it is not. History is a NARRATIVE told about the past by someone. The practice of HISTORY has gotten more accurate in Western Civilization in recent centuries, but for many centuries HISTORY was regarded even by learned people as not completely TRUE, but a decent narrative about the past which served a purpose. You and others are superimposing your 21st century conception about what HISTORY is onto HISTORY produced 2000 years ago. Simpleton, are you telling me Jesus was using a hoax, made up story of Jonah swallowed by a Big fish in comparing his own death and resurrection. Do you believe Jesus was deceived by Jonah swallowed by the big fish story? Can you please, answer with a Yes or No. Thanks.It's not a hoax, it's just an allegory. Jesus would have not had any trouble using an allegory, he used parables all the time - things which were not factually true, but the meaning was true.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 19:02:27 GMT -5
It's not a hoax, it's just an allegory. Jesus would have not had any trouble using an allegory, he used parables all the time - things which were not factually true, but the meaning was true. al·le·go·ry.
1. a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one: synonyms: parable · analogy · metaphor · symbol · emblem •a symbol.
Sorry, simpleton... Jonah swallowed by a BIG fish was NOT an allegory, metaphor, symbol, or a parable either but a historical true story. There is nowhere in the scriptures Jesus taught Jonah swallow by a BIG fish was an allegory, this is your own belief. Just because you don't believe, it doesn't make Jonah swallowed by a BIG fish a parable according to you. It shows me that you've underestimated God's Almighty power, and His works of wonders to behold.
Jesus own death and resurrection was a GREATER specular miracle than Jonah swallowed by a BIG fish.... eventually Jonah died but Jesus lived forever more.
You do realize that you have NO IDEA what Jesus said or did not say. All you have is a written account by an unknown author at least 40 years after an event. Don't impose your 20th century understanding of history onto an account from 2000 years ago.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 19, 2016 20:43:17 GMT -5
So why did you quote it then in the first place in support of the Jonah story? I didn't read all of the article at first, after you asked me to read it again then I realized others believed it was a hoax. Then I began to ponder about Jonah's story again and why did Jesus compare his own death, resurrection to Jonah swallowed by a BIG fish if it wasn't TRUE.
If I were Jesus I would NEVER use a myth, hoax, fabrication story to illustrate an important point. I don't think Jesus would do that either. I wouldn't be surprised it was Christ who sent the Big fish to swallow up Jonah so he could use that story to illustrate his own death and resurrection.
I reckon it would be a good wee exercise for you to go back through all the links you have posted and double check their authenticity. Delete those that can not be cross referenced with reliable references. I'm guessing you won't have much left. PS, the bible and Simpleton are not reliable sources.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 20, 2016 3:25:07 GMT -5
I reckon it would be a good wee exercise for you to go back through all the links you have posted and double check their authenticity. Delete those that can not be cross referenced with reliable references. I'm guessing you won't have much left. PS, the bible and Simpleton are not reliable sources. Are you an atheist now, Curly?I do not use that term to describe myself. I believe that the god mentioned in the Jewish bible is no different to any other god that men have invented over the the years.At the end of our lives we will lie rotting in the ground or burnt to ashes, neither really matters although I like the idea of being planted under a lemon tree so that the sourness of the lemon could benefit from my sweetness.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 20, 2016 5:17:30 GMT -5
Are you an atheist now, Curly? I do not use that term to describe myself. I believe that the god mentioned in the Jewish bible is no different to any other god that men have invented over the the years.At the end of our lives we will lie rotting in the ground or burnt to ashes, neither really matters although I like the idea of being planted under a lemon tree so that the sourness of the lemon could benefit from my sweetness. I like that idea!
One of my sons wants to just be wrapped in a linen cloth, so he can feed the grass!
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 6:57:15 GMT -5
I do not use that term to describe myself. I believe that the god mentioned in the Jewish bible is no different to any other god that men have invented over the the years.At the end of our lives we will lie rotting in the ground or burnt to ashes, neither really matters although I like the idea of being planted under a lemon tree so that the sourness of the lemon could benefit from my sweetness. I like that idea!
One of my sons wants to just be wrapped in a linen cloth, so he can feed the grass!
He will feed more than the grass too.
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