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Post by dmmichgood on May 18, 2016 21:49:49 GMT -5
Maryhig does not limit her mind to the things of this life which can be touched, seen or heard. She thinks beyond to the unknown, the spiritual and the unseen which is at work around us, which cannot be seen, touched or heard. Do you not believe there are dimensions that are beyond our physical senses, dmm? If there ARE "dimensions that are beyond our physical senses," spiritual and the unseen, -I have NOT seen any evidence for them yet. Why should I take Maryhig's word and believe what she "believes?"
Notice I said what she "believes." She certainly has a right to believe whatever she wants to believe but that doesn't mean that I have to believe it just because she does.
Do you think that YOU have to believe everything that someone else believes?
There isn't any harm in thinking beyond what is unknown for now. Actually, that is what caused humans to have the advanced as far as we have. However, -what is important is which tools you use to come to conclusions about what you have been exploring.
If it just relying on age old religious theories that haven't lived up their promise in the past, then I think it is time to consider something more practical.
There is harm, however, in believing many religious tenets. They have been responsible for a lot of deaths n the history of mankind
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Post by maryhig on May 19, 2016 0:28:40 GMT -5
DMG my son asked me how is God everywhere. To which I couldn't answer. Hours later in the meeting, in the middle of reading the bible, my uncle stopped reading, and out of a full room looked up and pointed right at my son and said "good question how is God everywhere" he said the exact words that my son had asked hours earlier, no question was asked in the meeting, my son and I hadn't been discussing since much earlier on, and it wasn't mentioned in the meeting. It was a complete shock to me and my son. And he now knows that God is there because he knows that he heard him. You can't tell me how that happened because it's inexplicable. The only way it could have happened is if God heard us and answered us. One thing I don't do, is tell lies or make believe. I believe it's wrong to do so, and I fear God too much to lie about something like that, so I wouldn't make things like that up. Everything I've said is true, whether you believe me or not, that's up to you. But, at least I know I'm being honest and that is a true account of what happened, and I could never ever deny God. By the way, you're telling me to let it go, but you keep saying that there are reasonable and rational explanations. So, what are they? As you said, you weren't there. There are no rational explanations. The only explanation is that God heard us! No one is accusing you of telling lies, Marhig. It is wrong to tell a lie but not just because of a "fear" of any god.
Because when a person does not tell the truth, other PEOPLE no longer trust them. That is enough to keep people from telling lies. No need for any god in the equation is even necessary.
NO, I don't think that you are telling any LIES! No, I don't think that you just "made it up."
Why does it matter whether I believe your account of the incident or not?
It isn't my story, it is yours, so why are you so concerned about trying to convince me? Why do you even need me to confirm that it was evidence for the existence of a god?
You keep wanting me to give you a "reasonable and rational" explanation. I gave you one. You have concluded that there are no "rational" explanations and the only explanation is that God heard you!
There are others reasons, but I am not going to tell you any, because you will just think that I am accusing you again.
PS: You never told me what did your uncle said about the incident. Did he give you any reason?
When we started discussing this, you made a point of stating that you believed once just as I do, but we are completely different people so you can't possibly know that. And as I tried to point out, I find it hard to see how you believed as I do, because you have many times said that you have never seen any evidence that God exists, nothing. But I have, many times. You don't know me or my life. So you can't possibly know what i have or haven't experienced. But at the end of the day I have had definite proof, you have said you haven't, and you must have had doubts to go searching different religions, I've never needed to go and do that as I my faith is strong and i know God is there. I've had undeniable proof in my life but it's not worth writing it on here. Because i have said something that was very heart felt and personal to me, and my uncle is made out as some sort of Uri Geller type trickster. Yet he was such a humble and God fearing man with a huge kind heart and he was very honest. It doesn't matter whether you believe me or not, and I'm not trying convince you. it's just that people on here ask us to talk of our experiences or ask us what proof we have had, and then we're ridiculed and we are made out to have some kind of imaginary friend and then we are told that their are rational explanations but to be honest the people who say that, can't come up with any! To say that my uncle was probably thinking a similar thing is just nonsense, because of the way everything happened! But as you said, you weren't there, I suppose you would have to have experienced it. Anyway, we now both believe completely differently. So we'll never agree. But regardless of what anyone says, I know God is there and that's all that matters to me. And even if I hadn't of had any personal experience, there is plenty of evidence everywhere. He is in and through everything he's created. But for some reason, some people just can't see him.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 19, 2016 0:28:51 GMT -5
There isn't any harm in thinking beyond what is unknown for now. Actually, that is what caused humans to have the advanced as far as we have. However, -what is important is which tools you use to come to conclusions about what you have been exploring. If it just relying on age old religious theories that haven't lived up their promise in the past, then I think it is time to consider something more practical. There is harm, however, in believing many religious tenets. They have been responsible for a lot of deaths n the history of mankind When the promises are eternal, it hardly makes sense to speak of "haven't lived up their promise in the past". However, I believe the kingdom of God is now, as well as eternal. "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." and "behold, the kingdom of God is within you.", etc.. The now is focused on the eternal, and this age is infinitesimal when compared with the eternal, but nevertheless the kingdom of God is very real now. "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you", for instance, is the most practical way of achieving peace imaginable. And it has achieved peace. In all the world? Of course not. It is voluntary. Many, even among those who profess it with their lips, do not believe it should be followed. But there is no more practical way to live within a community than to do so in peace, humility, and love for one another.
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Post by maryhig on May 19, 2016 0:48:50 GMT -5
DMG my son asked me how is God everywhere. To which I couldn't answer. Hours later in the meeting, in the middle of reading the bible, my uncle stopped reading, and out of a full room looked up and pointed right at my son and said "good question how is God everywhere" he said the exact words that my son had asked hours earlier, no question was asked in the meeting, my son and I hadn't been discussing since much earlier on, and it wasn't mentioned in the meeting. It was a complete shock to me and my son. And he now knows that God is there because he knows that he heard him. You can't tell me how that happened because it's inexplicable. The only way it could have happened is if God heard us and answered us. One thing I don't do, is tell lies or make believe. I believe it's wrong to do so, and I fear God too much to lie about something like that, so I wouldn't make things like that up. Everything I've said is true, whether you believe me or not, that's up to you. But, at least I know I'm being honest and that is a true account of what happened, and I could never ever deny God. By the way, you're telling me to let it go, but you keep saying that there are reasonable and rational explanations. So, what are they? As you said, you weren't there. There are no rational explanations. The only explanation is that God heard us! No one is accusing you of telling lies, Marhig. It is wrong to tell a lie but not just because of a "fear" of any god.
Because when a person does not tell the truth, other PEOPLE no longer trust them. That is enough to keep people from telling lies. No need for any god in the equation is even necessary.
NO, I don't think that you are telling any LIES! No, I don't think that you just "made it up."
Why does it matter whether I believe your account of the incident or not?
It isn't my story, it is yours, so why are you so concerned about trying to convince me? Why do you even need me to confirm that it was evidence for the existence of a god?
You keep wanting me to give you a "reasonable and rational" explanation. I gave you one. You have concluded that there are no "rational" explanations and the only explanation is that God heard you!
There are others reasons, but I am not going to tell you any, because you will just think that I am accusing you again.
PS: You never told me what did your uncle said about the incident. Did he give you any reason?
When my uncle had stopped talking, and had finished answering the question and giving his explanation. He realised that we were whispering, and wondered what we were talking about, he had his head down reading and didn't see my son he thought that my son had just asked the question just before he answered it. My son didn't say a word, he was sitting next to me. When we explained to him, he smiled and just carried on reading. I went over this all again with my husband who was there, to make sure I got it right. My husband didn't know at the time that my son and I had been talking either, and he too wondered why he pointed at my son and said that. At the end of the day, people can think it's mind games, or some kind of trick. But this happened at 2 different times of the day. The first discussion was not mentioned again, neither were we talking about anything at the time to do with what we had discussed earlier. And the room was full. There was no need for my uncle to purposely point out my son, he didn't just explain how God was there, he actually said "good question' as if he'd just been asked a question. But no one had said a word! But as I said, you don't have to believe me, and I'm not bothered if you do or don't, I'm just trying to explain what happened clearly. I can't see any logical explanation to what happened, and I know that it was extraordinary, and that God actually heard us and i know that he is everywhere!
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Post by Roselyn T on May 19, 2016 1:08:25 GMT -5
maryhig, you said "As for others living and giving their lives for God like Jesus, the difference that I see between Jesus and others is his wisdom and understanding. I've never heard of anyone who taught or spoke like him. His courage was extraordinary as was the love that was in him that he poured out, even to those who were murdering him. " Were you alive when Jesus spoke or taught? No ? All you have to go from is something that was written about Jesus how many years after he died, and written by men in a book that in some cases is idolized more than Jesus himself ! The wisdom that Jesus spoke in the bible, isn't from man. Men don't speak like that, men don't act like him and human beings don't love like him, he was in the fullness of Gods spirit. Man may have written the gospels, but they are recounting the words and life of Jesus. This is what John wrote at the end of his gospel. This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. Jesus also said this John 20 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. He knew that his gospel would spread and that many would believe without seeing him. I believe John, and I know that Jesus' testimony is true. I know that he came as a witness to the truth and that he's the Christ, and I know that God is there and that he's a living God because I have experienced him in my life. Not as some imaginary friend, not as something that I've pulled out of a hat, but a true and living God. If you can't see God in the words and life of Jesus, then you definitely don't know God! You once said that you believed, but if you don't believe in the words of Jesus, and see that he came from God, then you don't truly believe. Although I feel that you have become an atheist, by the things you have been agreeing to. maryhig, the point I was making, was that Jesus didn't write the bible, men wrote the bible. No one is around to confirm what Jesus actually spoke. I do not believe the bible is inerrant there have been too many translations, books taken out, parts added etc. Yes I did believe , but now too many questions that cannot be answered. I didn't realise agreeing with things people posted was how a person became an atheists !
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2016 1:14:29 GMT -5
No one is accusing you of telling lies, Marhig. It is wrong to tell a lie but not just because of a "fear" of any god.
Because when a person does not tell the truth, other PEOPLE no longer trust them. That is enough to keep people from telling lies. No need for any god in the equation is even necessary.
NO, I don't think that you are telling any LIES! No, I don't think that you just "made it up."
Why does it matter whether I believe your account of the incident or not?
It isn't my story, it is yours, so why are you so concerned about trying to convince me? Why do you even need me to confirm that it was evidence for the existence of a god?
You keep wanting me to give you a "reasonable and rational" explanation. I gave you one. You have concluded that there are no "rational" explanations and the only explanation is that God heard you!
There are others reasons, but I am not going to tell you any, because you will just think that I am accusing you again.
PS: You never told me what did your uncle said about the incident. Did he give you any reason?
When my uncle had stopped talking, and had finished answering the question and giving his explanation. He realised that we were whispering, and wondered what we were talking about, he had his head down reading and didn't see my son he thought that my son had just asked the question just before he answered it. My son didn't say a word, he was sitting next to me. When we explained to him, he smiled and just carried on reading. I went over this all again with my husband who was there, to make sure I got it right. My husband didn't know at the time that my son and I had been talking either, and he too wondered why he pointed at my son and said that. At the end of the day, people can think it's mind games, or some kind of trick. But this happened at 2 different times of the day. The first discussion was not mentioned again, neither were we talking about anything at the time to do with what we had discussed earlier. And the room was full. There was no need for my uncle to purposely point out my son, he didn't just explain how God was there, he actually said "good question' as if he'd just been asked a question. But no one had said a word! But as I said, you don't have to believe me, and I'm not bothered if you do or don't, I'm just trying to explain what happened clearly. I can't see any logical explanation to what happened, and I know that it was extraordinary, and that God actually heard us and i know that he is everywhere! Thank you for answering about what your uncle had to say, -although he really didn't give any explanation as to why he thought your son had asked the question.
Never-the-less, -I'm glad you are not bothered if I don't believe there was anything supernatural about it.
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Post by maryhig on May 19, 2016 1:14:54 GMT -5
Maryhig does not limit her mind to the things of this life which can be touched, seen or heard. She thinks beyond to the unknown, the spiritual and the unseen which is at work around us, which cannot be seen, touched or heard. Do you not believe there are dimensions that are beyond our physical senses, dmm? If there ARE "dimensions that are beyond our physical senses," spiritual and the unseen, -I have NOT seen any evidence for them yet. Why should I take Maryhig's word and believe what she "believes?"
Notice I said what she "believes." She certainly has a right to believe whatever she wants to believe but that doesn't mean that I have to believe it just because she does.
Do you think that YOU have to believe everything that someone else believes?
There isn't any harm in thinking beyond what is unknown for now. Actually, that is what caused humans to have the advanced as far as we have. However, -what is important is which tools you use to come to conclusions about what you have been exploring.
If it just relying on age old religious theories that haven't lived up their promise in the past, then I think it is time to consider something more practical.
There is harm, however, in believing many religious tenets. They have been responsible for a lot of deaths n the history of mankindNot once have I said you must believe me, I don't know why you keep saying this. I'm talking of my experience. I'm telling you of the proof I've had that God exists, seeing as we are made out to be some sort of brainless dimwits, who believe in fairy stories, flying spaghetti monsters or whatever else had been said about those who have faith and love God. I don't have to prove that he exists to you, I'm only talking about the proof that I've had. And i can see why people don't talk of their experiences here. Because they are dissected and treated as nonsense by some. Who think logically and can't see past that. But at the end of the day, none of you can explain that first point at the beginning, when creation began, or how it happened, or how life just came to be from nowhere and nothing. Some people can only see a big bang which exploded from an empty void. Which is nonsense, life comes from life. So you are created from nothing, came from nothing and go back to nothing, but I know that God created everything, and i came from God and I'll go back to God!
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Post by maryhig on May 19, 2016 1:27:40 GMT -5
The wisdom that Jesus spoke in the bible, isn't from man. Men don't speak like that, men don't act like him and human beings don't love like him, he was in the fullness of Gods spirit. Man may have written the gospels, but they are recounting the words and life of Jesus. This is what John wrote at the end of his gospel. This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. Jesus also said this John 20 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. He knew that his gospel would spread and that many would believe without seeing him. I believe John, and I know that Jesus' testimony is true. I know that he came as a witness to the truth and that he's the Christ, and I know that God is there and that he's a living God because I have experienced him in my life. Not as some imaginary friend, not as something that I've pulled out of a hat, but a true and living God. If you can't see God in the words and life of Jesus, then you definitely don't know God! You once said that you believed, but if you don't believe in the words of Jesus, and see that he came from God, then you don't truly believe. Although I feel that you have become an atheist, by the things you have been agreeing to. maryhig, the point I was making, was that Jesus didn't write the bible, men wrote the bible. No one is around to confirm what Jesus actually spoke. I do not believe the bible is inerrant there have been too many translations, books taken out, parts added etc. Yes I did believe , but now too many questions that cannot be answered. I didn't realise agreeing with things people posted was how a person became an atheists ! John wrote the gospel according to John and he was with Jesus in his lifetime. I believe John's account. As I do the others. The Bible may well have bits added or taken away, but God has in it what he wants there. And there is enough in it to teach us about God and how to live and to give us a good account of Jesus to see if we believe and have faith. You say that you didn't realise that agreeing with people was how a person can become an atheist. But with respect, if you believed in God, then you wouldn't agree with some of the stuff you have been agreeing with. Because some of those posts have been denying him completely. It's a shame that you say that you did believe, I hope you don't lose your faith. Because some people can say things to turn others away. But, there is more proof that God is there than that he isn't. Just look at creation itself. There is no better proof naturally in the here and now that God exists than this!
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Post by maryhig on May 19, 2016 1:39:07 GMT -5
When my uncle had stopped talking, and had finished answering the question and giving his explanation. He realised that we were whispering, and wondered what we were talking about, he had his head down reading and didn't see my son he thought that my son had just asked the question just before he answered it. My son didn't say a word, he was sitting next to me. When we explained to him, he smiled and just carried on reading. I went over this all again with my husband who was there, to make sure I got it right. My husband didn't know at the time that my son and I had been talking either, and he too wondered why he pointed at my son and said that. At the end of the day, people can think it's mind games, or some kind of trick. But this happened at 2 different times of the day. The first discussion was not mentioned again, neither were we talking about anything at the time to do with what we had discussed earlier. And the room was full. There was no need for my uncle to purposely point out my son, he didn't just explain how God was there, he actually said "good question' as if he'd just been asked a question. But no one had said a word! But as I said, you don't have to believe me, and I'm not bothered if you do or don't, I'm just trying to explain what happened clearly. I can't see any logical explanation to what happened, and I know that it was extraordinary, and that God actually heard us and i know that he is everywhere! Thank you for answering about what your uncle had to say, -although he really didn't give any explanation as to why he thought your son had asked the question.
Never-the-less, -I'm glad you are not bothered if I don't believe there was anything supernatural about it.
If someone asks you a question, do you answer it, or do you start quizzing them on why they asked you? The majority of the time, I just answer them!
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2016 2:01:25 GMT -5
If there ARE "dimensions that are beyond our physical senses," spiritual and the unseen, -I have NOT seen any evidence for them yet. Why should I take Maryhig's word and believe what she "believes?"
Notice I said what she "believes." She certainly has a right to believe whatever she wants to believe but that doesn't mean that I have to believe it just because she does.
Do you think that YOU have to believe everything that someone else believes?
There isn't any harm in thinking beyond what is unknown for now. Actually, that is what caused humans to have the advanced as far as we have. However, -what is important is which tools you use to come to conclusions about what you have been exploring.
If it just relying on age old religious theories that haven't lived up their promise in the past, then I think it is time to consider something more practical.
There is harm, however, in believing many religious tenets. They have been responsible for a lot of deaths n the history of mankind Not once have I said you must believe me, I don't know why you keep saying this. I'm talking of my experience. I'm telling you of the proof I've had that God exists, seeing as we are made out to be some sort of brainless wits, who believe in fairy stories, flying spaghetti monsters or whatever else had been said about those who have faith and love God. I don't have to prove that he exists to you, I'm only talking about the proof that I've had. And i can see why people don't talk of their experiences here. Because they are dissected and treated as nonsense by some. Who think logically and can't see past that. But at the end of the day, none of you can explain that first point at the beginning, when creation began, or how it happened, or how life just came to be from nowhere and nothing. Some people can only see a big bang which exploded from an empty void. Which is nonsense, life comes from life. So you are created from nothing, came from nothing and go back to nothing, but I know that God created everything, and i came from God and I'll go back to God! Maryhig, you say, "I don't know why you keep saying this."
Maryhig, don't you remember when I posted this: "I am sorry maryhig. I cannot make it any plainer than I have. I doubt that I can ever convince you that I really have been where you are.
We will just have to leave it at that. Cheers! "
But it was YOU who answered: "Can I just ask you one last question please, then I won't say anything else. Have you had absolute proof that God exists, so that you are in no doubt whatsoever of his existence? "'
You were the one who wouldn't let it drop!
Now you start complaining that we are dissecting what YOU say and "treating it as nonsense!"
YOU have done the very same to my experiences! You treated me as if I couldn't possibly, really, truly have once believed in god!
According to YOU it just couldn't possibly be! as if I didn't know what I was talking about, or was lying, or imagined it , or was making it up! I guess YOU think I'M the "brainless wit!"
PS: Now, I see you are treating Roselyn the same, that "if she believed in God," as if questioning whether she really does!
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Post by maryhig on May 19, 2016 2:21:49 GMT -5
Not once have I said you must believe me, I don't know why you keep saying this. I'm talking of my experience. I'm telling you of the proof I've had that God exists, seeing as we are made out to be some sort of brainless wits, who believe in fairy stories, flying spaghetti monsters or whatever else had been said about those who have faith and love God. I don't have to prove that he exists to you, I'm only talking about the proof that I've had. And i can see why people don't talk of their experiences here. Because they are dissected and treated as nonsense by some. Who think logically and can't see past that. But at the end of the day, none of you can explain that first point at the beginning, when creation began, or how it happened, or how life just came to be from nowhere and nothing. Some people can only see a big bang which exploded from an empty void. Which is nonsense, life comes from life. So you are created from nothing, came from nothing and go back to nothing, but I know that God created everything, and i came from God and I'll go back to God! Maryhig, you say, "I don't know why you keep saying this."
Maryhig, don't you remember when I posted this: "I am sorry maryhig. I cannot make it any plainer than I have. I doubt that I can ever convince you that I really have been where you are.
We will just have to leave it at that. Cheers! "
But it was YOU who answered: "Can I just ask you one last question please, then I won't say anything else. Have you had absolute proof that God exists, so that you are in no doubt whatsoever of his existence? "'
You were the one who wouldn't let it drop!
Now you start complaining that we are dissecting what YOU say and "treating it as nonsense!"
YOU have done the very same to my experiences! You treated me as if I couldn't possibly, really, truly have once believed in god!
According to YOU it just couldn't possibly be! as if I didn't know what I was talking about, or was lying, or imagined it , or was making it up! I guess YOU think I'M the "brainless wit!"
PS: Now, I see you are treating Roselyn the same, that "if she believed in God," as if questioning whether she really does!
No, i don't think your brainless, and you've been doing your fair share of debating! Also, believing as you do, would you agree with me saying that God exists? I doubt it very much. So all as I'm saying is that by the things Roslyn agrees to, it points towards her being an atheist. But I hope not, i hope she doesn't lose her faith.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2016 3:27:29 GMT -5
Maryhig, you say, "I don't know why you keep saying this."
Maryhig, don't you remember when I posted this: "I am sorry maryhig. I cannot make it any plainer than I have. I doubt that I can ever convince you that I really have been where you are.
We will just have to leave it at that. Cheers! "
But it was YOU who answered: "Can I just ask you one last question please, then I won't say anything else. Have you had absolute proof that God exists, so that you are in no doubt whatsoever of his existence? "'
You were the one who wouldn't let it drop!
Now you start complaining that we are dissecting what YOU say and "treating it as nonsense!"
YOU have done the very same to my experiences! You treated me as if I couldn't possibly, really, truly have once believed in god!
According to YOU it just couldn't possibly be! as if I didn't know what I was talking about, or was lying, or imagined it , or was making it up! I guess YOU think I'M the "brainless wit!"
PS: Now, I see you are treating Roselyn the same, that "if she believed in God," as if questioning whether she really does!
No, i don't think your brainless, and you've been doing your fair share of debating!Also, believing as you do, would you agree with me saying that God exists? I doubt it very much. So all as I'm saying is that byI am saying , Maryhig, that you are complaining that "we are mistreating YOU!" YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE POINT. It has nothing to do with any fair share of debating!
You were complaining about the way I treat you , "seeing as we are made out to be some sort of brainless wits," & "And i can see why people don't talk of their experiences here. Because they are dissected and treated as nonsense by some."
Yet YOU dismissed as even NOT possible when I said I once believed in god , -treating me as if it couldn't possibly be true, that I couldn't possibly know what I was talking about!
I didn't complain that you were treating me as a "brainless wit."
How does that feel to have the shoe on the other foot for a change?
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 3:30:58 GMT -5
Dmmich, That reminds me of an old story I heard many years ago. An old man lived on his own and one day he prepared himself a lovely tasty meal, after eating it, he was so pleased with himself that he shouted out loudly : I am so happy and satisfied after eating that meal, that God can come and take me home tonight. His neighbour overheard him and thought that he would play a trick on him. That night the neighbour knocked on his door loudly, he responded by asking who it was and the neighbour said : I am God and I have come to take you home as requested by you. The old man replied: dear oh dear, cant an old man even make a joke in his own house? I am not really ready to go yet, please God, give me a break! I was only joking. Comic story.
Now tell me why what I said reminded you of that story?Oh, just forget it, of course it is a comic story, you obviously dont have a sense of humour. Always on the defensive. Lighten up. It was triggered by the notion that even some christians, God fearing/ God loving people are not very keen to die and meet their maker any time soon.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2016 3:42:44 GMT -5
Comic story.
Now tell me why what I said reminded you of that story? Oh, just forget it, of course it is a comic story, you obviously dont have a sense of humour. It was triggered by the notion that even some christians are not very keen to die and meet their maker any time soon. OK, gotcha, I just didn't connect it to that particulate quote of mine. YES, I do have a sense of humor! so there! PS: FYI, If you hit the quote button on the what particular post I made it will then appear above your post & I will therefore be better able to ascertain which quote of the very few which I make that you are referring to.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2016 4:07:50 GMT -5
There isn't any harm in thinking beyond what is unknown for now. Actually, that is what caused humans to have the advanced as far as we have. However, -what is important is which tools you use to come to conclusions about what you have been exploring. If it just relying on age old religious theories that haven't lived up their promise in the past, then I think it is time to consider something more practical. There is harm, however, in believing many religious tenets. They have been responsible for a lot of deaths n the history of mankind When the promises are eternal, it hardly makes sense to speak of "haven't lived up their promise in the past". However, I believe the kingdom of God is now, as well as eternal. "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." and "behold, the kingdom of God is within you.", etc.. The now is focused on the eternal, and this age is infinitesimal when compared with the eternal, but nevertheless the kingdom of God is very real now. "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you", for instance, is the most practical way of achieving peace imaginable. And it has achieved peace. In all the world? Of course not. It is voluntary. Many, even among those who profess it with their lips, do not believe it should be followed. But there is no more practical way to live within a community than to do so in peace, humility, and love for one another. You are right in that to live by treating others as you want to be treated is a practical way to live within any community. However, that does not mean that it was any kind of divine revelation from any supernatural being called a god.
The "practical" part is right & as mankind lived in clans & tribes it was naturally recognized to be the way people had to act in order to have any peace.
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Post by maryhig on May 19, 2016 4:15:17 GMT -5
No, i don't think your brainless, and you've been doing your fair share of debating!Also, believing as you do, would you agree with me saying that God exists? I doubt it very much. So all as I'm saying is that byI am saying , Maryhig, that you are complaining that "we are mistreating YOU!" YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE POINT. It has nothing to do with any fair share of debating!
You were complaining about the way I treat you , "seeing as we are made out to be some sort of brainless wits," & "And i can see why people don't talk of their experiences here. Because they are dissected and treated as nonsense by some."
Yet YOU dismissed as even NOT possible when I said I once believed in god , -treating me as if it couldn't possibly be true, that I couldn't possibly know what I was talking about!
I didn't complain that you were treating me as a "brainless wit."
How does that feel to have the shoe on the other foot for a change?
No I never complained about the way to treat me, and I wasn't talking about you personally, I said about some people here make out that others are brainless because they believe in God. And I never said anything about you believing in God, i know you used to believe and probably very sincerely. I said that there was a difference, because I have seen evidence and you haven't. You really don't need to use capital letters to emphasis the words you and not or that I'm not getting the point, I got your point and I can see those words clearly, using capital letters on specific words directed at a person in that way just makes you look like your shouting.
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Post by maryhig on May 19, 2016 4:21:28 GMT -5
Really? So I have told on here before, of the time that my son and I had a conversation about God. He asked me a question in the afternoon which I couldn't answer. We forgot all about the conversation. My uncle, reading the bible in the meeting that evening, many hours later, stopped, pointed at my son and said good question, then repeated the question and gave the answer. My uncle did this as if he had just heard the question, but the question was asked hours before, in another house and we hadn't said anything to anyone about our discussion. We were stunned, my uncle stopped reading in the middle of the meeting to do this, everybody there we're saying to each other "but nobody asked that, why is he saying that" but my son did ask that, only many hours before, with only him and I there! So how did that happen? and that is only one experience, I have had others like this. There are many possible explanations. Without knowing/observing the events it is difficult to know. Would you uncle be available to have this gift tested? Proving that he had a paranormal power like this could be a huge benefit to mankind. Uri Geller claimed he could bend spoons with his mind. He did a number of things that he claimed were due to his psychic power. As it turned out, he is just an illusionist. A good one who can make people believe he can do all sorts of paranormal things. But at the end of the day they are commonplace and easily explained without the need to invoke any paranormal powers. Many things happen which seem to defy the odds but often it is simply selection basis. Go to a cold reader and they will be heard saying: "I am getting urgent communication from someone regarding a person in your life whose name starts with an "A", "M", or "C". And the victim says "Oh yes. It must be Amy. Or it could be Jim because we always called his Curt." And the cold reader has a wealth of information to build on and the victim can't believe that the reader got the names right. Of course, the reader knew in advance that "A", "M", and "C" are the most popular first initials so there was bound to be a hit. My uncle wasn't some kind of illusionist or trickster Rational! And I'm afraid you can't "test" him as he past away a few years ago.
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Post by rational on May 19, 2016 8:40:27 GMT -5
And i can see why people don't talk of their experiences here. Because they are dissected and treated as nonsense by some. Who think logically and can't see past that. When people claim their experiences as fact and claim there is no explanation that does not involve a paranormal being they are often upset when alternative explanations are offered. In the same line of thinking you can not say with any more degree of certainty how the universe came into being. Those who do believe that the origin was the big bang do have the natural laws of science supporting their claims and, although not all questions have been answered the theory has done well in predicting the results of a number of experiments. This is what you believe without, again, any verifiable support.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 19, 2016 11:03:40 GMT -5
maryhig , the point I was making, was that Jesus didn't write the bible, men wrote the bible. No one is around to confirm what Jesus actually spoke. I do not believe the bible is inerrant there have been too many translations, books taken out, parts added etc. Yes I did believe , but now too many questions that cannot be answered. I didn't realise agreeing with things people posted was how a person became an atheists ! What are you trying to say by "too many translations"? Translating a document does not change the original document. No matter how many translations are made, whether they're good translations, bad translations, perfect translations, imperfect translations, literal, paraphrase, etc., no matter how many times documents are translated or by whom, translations have no effect on whether or not the original documents were true or the circumstances surrounding their writing. Neither do unanswered questions.
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 19, 2016 11:17:38 GMT -5
You are right in that to live by treating others as you want to be treated is a practical way to live within any community. However, that does not mean that it was any kind of divine revelation from any supernatural being called a god. I was responding only to your implication that "age old religious theories" "haven't lived up their promise in the past", by showing that the teachings of Jesus have in fact done just that. No, tribal life in general does not exhibit the characteristics of loving others and loving enemies. It is true that there must have been some degree of peace both within and without, to ensure survival. Fighting is often restrained or limited, out of self-interest. But to a large extent, tribal life is about the stronger ones dominating the weaker and making war on one another. It is essentially the same as modern life but on a smaller scale.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 19, 2016 12:56:04 GMT -5
The wisdom that Jesus spoke in the bible, isn't from man. Men don't speak like that, men don't act like him and human beings don't love like him, he was in the fullness of Gods spirit. Man may have written the gospels, but they are recounting the words and life of Jesus. This is what John wrote at the end of his gospel. This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. Jesus also said this John 20 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. He knew that his gospel would spread and that many would believe without seeing him. I believe John, and I know that Jesus' testimony is true. I know that he came as a witness to the truth and that he's the Christ, and I know that God is there and that he's a living God because I have experienced him in my life. Not as some imaginary friend, not as something that I've pulled out of a hat, but a true and living God. If you can't see God in the words and life of Jesus, then you definitely don't know God! You once said that you believed, but if you don't believe in the words of Jesus, and see that he came from God, then you don't truly believe. Although I feel that you have become an atheist, by the things you have been agreeing to. maryhig, the point I was making, was that Jesus didn't write the bible, men wrote the bible. No one is around to confirm what Jesus actually spoke. I do not believe the bible is inerrant there have been too many translations, books taken out, parts added etc. Yes I did believe , but now too many questions that cannot be answered. I didn't realise agreeing with things people posted was how a person became an atheists ! I guess in that case ALL books have to be discarded? All those textbooks that's been reedited year after year, hold no truth in them because they're written by man?
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 19, 2016 13:06:00 GMT -5
maryhig , the point I was making, was that Jesus didn't write the bible, men wrote the bible. No one is around to confirm what Jesus actually spoke. I do not believe the bible is inerrant there have been too many translations, books taken out, parts added etc. Yes I did believe , but now too many questions that cannot be answered. I didn't realise agreeing with things people posted was how a person became an atheists ! What are you trying to say by "too many translations"? Translating a document does not change the original document. No matter how many translations are made, whether they're good translations, bad translations, perfect translations, imperfect translations, literal, paraphrase, etc., no matter how many times documents are translated or by whom, translations have no effect on whether or not the original documents were true or the circumstances surrounding their writing. Neither do unanswered questions. " Too many questions to believe the bible"! I believe the bible makes it clear why some people don't gather answers. Isn't it quite clear that the mysteries ate revealed to the children in heart, who aren't asking with blind eyes, hardened hearts and approaching with their questions already thinking there are no answers and no proofs. Sheesh! I have to disregard a lot of medical data I've read because I sure haven't seen proof of a lot of it. But then who is to say that sometime in the future some of that data may well useful because certain conditions are present?
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Post by Roselyn T on May 19, 2016 23:00:47 GMT -5
maryhig, the point I was making, was that Jesus didn't write the bible, men wrote the bible. No one is around to confirm what Jesus actually spoke. I do not believe the bible is inerrant there have been too many translations, books taken out, parts added etc. Yes I did believe , but now too many questions that cannot be answered. I didn't realise agreeing with things people posted was how a person became an atheists ! I guess in that case ALL books have to be discarded? All those textbooks that's been reedited year after year, hold no truth in them because they're written by man? sharingtheriches, do you live by "other textbooks"? Do you live by ALL other books? Or do you live by the bible?
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Post by Roselyn T on May 19, 2016 23:07:00 GMT -5
maryhig , the point I was making, was that Jesus didn't write the bible, men wrote the bible. No one is around to confirm what Jesus actually spoke. I do not believe the bible is inerrant there have been too many translations, books taken out, parts added etc. Yes I did believe , but now too many questions that cannot be answered. I didn't realise agreeing with things people posted was how a person became an atheists ! What are you trying to say by "too many translations"? Translating a document does not change the original document. No matter how many translations are made, whether they're good translations, bad translations, perfect translations, imperfect translations, literal, paraphrase, etc., no matter how many times documents are translated or by whom, translations have no effect on whether or not the original documents were true or the circumstances surrounding their writing. Neither do unanswered questions. calleduntoliberty, have you seen the "original documents" you are talking about ? Changing words, adding words, taking out books ....and all of this has no effect! As to unanswered question, here is one for you, should the bible be taken literally? If not which parts should be & which parts shouldn't be? Going back to translations, the game Chinese Whispers comes to mind!
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2016 23:07:14 GMT -5
YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE POINT. It has nothing to do with any fair share of debating!
You were complaining about the way I treat you , "seeing as we are made out to be some sort of brainless wits," & "And i can see why people don't talk of their experiences here. Because they are dissected and treated as nonsense by some."
Yet YOU dismissed as even NOT possible when I said I once believed in god , -treating me as if it couldn't possibly be true, that I couldn't possibly know what I was talking about!
I didn't complain that you were treating me as a "brainless wit."
How does that feel to have the shoe on the other foot for a change?
No I never complained about the way to treat me, and I wasn't talking about you personally, I said about some people here make out that others are brainless because they believe in God. And I never said anything about you believing in God, i know you used to believe and probably very sincerely. I said that there was a difference, because I have seen evidence and you haven't. You really don't need to use capital letters to emphasis the words you and not or that I'm not getting the point, I got your point and I can see those words clearly, using capital letters on specific words directed at a person in that way just makes you look like your shouting.
I WAS SHOUTING! because that seems the only way I can get you to hear. I have explained & explained and got nowhere.
Yes, when you said "seeing as we are made out to be some sort of brainless wits," & "And i can see why people don't talk of their experiences here. Because they are dissected and treated as nonsense by some," you were talking about me. It was my post you were answering.
Yes, you did talk about my believing in god. For many posts we talked about nothing else.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 20, 2016 0:07:30 GMT -5
I guess in that case ALL books have to be discarded? All those textbooks that's been reedited year after year, hold no truth in them because they're written by man? sharingtheriches, do you live by "other textbooks"? Do you live by ALL other books? Or do you live by the bible? When I was in college chemistry was very hard for me. I said to myself " why take this? I'll never use it.". About 4 months of working as an RN, it just happened to be proven to me that as long as I worked as a nurse that I was going to have to use chemistry knowledge. And I consider anything I have to use or do is "living" that very thing. So "yes" I live parts of the textbooks I've had to get to know.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 20, 2016 1:37:06 GMT -5
sharingtheriches, do you live by "other textbooks"? Do you live by ALL other books? Or do you live by the bible? When I was in college chemistry was very hard for me. I said to myself " why take this? I'll never use it.". About 4 months of working as an RN, it just happened to be proven to me that as long as I worked as a nurse that I was going to have to use chemistry knowledge. And I consider anything I have to use or do is "living" that very thing. So "yes" I live parts of the textbooks I've had to get to know. Do you live your life by those text books ? Or do you live your life by the bible ? The point I was making was people put the bible on a pedestal as if it was written by God himself ! They worship the bible, that was written by men more than God !
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Post by dmmichgood on May 20, 2016 1:57:00 GMT -5
There isn't any harm in thinking beyond what is unknown for now. Actually, that is what caused humans to have the advanced as far as we have. However, -what is important is which tools you use to come to conclusions about what you have been exploring. If it just relying on age old religious theories that haven't lived up their promise in the past, then I think it is time to consider something more practical. There is harm, however, in believing many religious tenets. They have been responsible for a lot of deaths n the history of mankind When the promises are eternal, it hardly makes sense to speak of "haven't lived up their promise in the past". However, I believe the kingdom of God is now, as well as eternal. "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." and "behold, the kingdom of God is within you.", etc.. The now is focused on the eternal, and this age is infinitesimal when compared with the eternal, but nevertheless the kingdom of God is very real now. "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you", for instance, is the most practical way of achieving peace imaginable. And it has achieved peace. In all the world? Of course not. It is voluntary. Many, even among those who profess it with their lips, do not believe it should be followed. But there is no more practical way to live within a community than to do so in peace, humility, and love for one another. I wasn't talking about "eternal promises." I was talking about the "promises" given in the New Testament. One very important and main promises was Jesus telling those that he was talking to that:“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
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