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Post by sharingtheriches on May 18, 2016 2:17:10 GMT -5
Was there ever a time when your parentstold you that if you did a certain thing, then you would get something you needed or wanted. Then dididn't you have to rely on the if word that they would reward you as promised. Even maybe having to go a length of time before you could expect this reward? Did you not have faith they'd follow up on their word? Well it works the same way for those who have faith in God. They will receive their reward even though you won't see them receive it. I didn't see your parents reward you and likely few people did. So it'd be the same thing for me to tell you over and over just because I haven't seen your reward that there is No proof in my mind your parents ever gave it to you. No doubt all that is true, sharingtheriches, but we were children.then. Now we are adults.
That was childhood and you are talking about when the reward something we could see touch smell hear, something concrete and real.
While the reward you speak of is not even something that you can see. Now we are adults and why do we need rewards for living a moral life anyway,- being kind to our fellow travelers on this journey called life?
And Why shouldn't that life be enough? Why should we want or even need to want an extension of an existence of after we die? Why do we even think that we should have a reward?Most folks like to believe they can live forever. And particularly in a place where this earth's pains and woes will not be. It's okay with me if YOU don't want any life eternally but I feel that it's any person's right to live by faith without being bombarded with how ridiculous they are to think that way. Or they're plain stupid for doing such cause there is no proof. I've had irrefutable proof and of course not expecting that privilege I did have my camera with me. Again as I said to Rat, you may not see the rewards of faithful folks but sometimes faith is that which is required.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 18, 2016 2:59:02 GMT -5
No doubt all that is true, sharingtheriches, but we were children.then. Now we are adults.
That was childhood and you are talking about when the reward something we could see touch smell hear, something concrete and real.
While the reward you speak of is not even something that you can see. Now we are adults and why do we need rewards for living a moral life anyway,- being kind to our fellow travelers on this journey called life?
And Why shouldn't that life be enough? Why should we want or even need to want an extension of an existence of after we die? Why do we even think that we should have a reward? Most folks like to believe they can live forever. And particularly in a place where this earth's pains and woes will not be. It's okay with me if YOU don't want any life eternally but I feel that it's any person's right to live by faith without being bombarded with how ridiculous they are to think that way. Or they're plain stupid for doing such cause there is no proof. I've had irrefutable proof and of course not expecting that privilege I did have my camera with me. Again as I said to Rat, you may not see the rewards of faithful folks but sometimes faith is that which is required. No doubt all that is true, sharingtheriches, but we were children.then. Now we are adults.
That was childhood and you are talking about when the reward something we could see touch smell hear, something concrete and real.
While the reward you speak of is not even something that you can see. Now we are adults and why do we need rewards for living a moral life anyway,- being kind to our fellow travelers on this journey called life?
And Why shouldn't that life be enough? Why should we want or even need to want an extension of an existence of after we die? Why do we even think that we should have a reward? Most folks like to believe they can live forever. And particularly in a place where this earth's pains and woes will not be. It's okay with me if YOU don't want any life eternally but I feel that it's any person's right to live by faith without being bombarded with how ridiculous they are to think that way. Or they're plain stupid for doing such cause there is no proof. I've had irrefutable proof and of course not expecting that privilege I did have my camera with me. Again as I said to Rat, you may not see the rewards of faithful folks but sometimes faith is that which is required. If folks "like to believe they can live forever," then no doubt that is the reason that they like to believe that is because of the "earth's pains and woes."
That is what I mean when I say that I have looked at the physiological reasons that people believe in a god.
I am not any more bombarding anyone than Christians bombard each other right here on this board for believing something that the other person doesn't believe like "whether you are saved by works or by faith" and constantly disagreeing about the Trinity, as if it were a life or death matter.
I'm not saying people are " ridiculous or stupid" but if that is the way feel about themselves when they hear what I say perhaps they should ask themselves why they feel that way instead of just blaming me!
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Post by Roselyn T on May 18, 2016 3:03:22 GMT -5
There are many people that have sacrificed themselves for others. It may have been an act of love but dose that make the person god? And those who claim these attributes of god cannot provide any proof of their beliefs. There are those of use who do not believe in god who wonder what fleshly desires you feel I have that I am not able to overcome that you have but need god to overcome? What wrong thoughts do you imagine I have that you do not have? I have read the gospels. How do you think I learned that is a person does not do as god says they will be sent to suffer for all eternity? How would I know about a god that approved of human sacrifice? Many. The fear of hell and the promise of heaven will lead people to do irrational things. And to be more concrete - the veracity of the writings concerning these events is not 100% certain.According to what was written. But there have been many people who lived their lives in a way they thought was for god. And many died for their beliefs. Does that make them equal to Jesus? Saving from what? Original sin? Have faith in what? maryhig, I appreciate your faith. But in reading what you wrote you are saying that people who do not believe as you do will suffer for eternity. First of all, we don't even know who or where anyone is definitely going when they die, I don't even think about it. I leave that in God's hands. I've always said that I don't call anyone unsaved of eternally saved, even myself. When I say saved, I mean from my past sins, before I truly turned to God, and being daily saved by the spirit. No one knows who is and who isn't eternally saved, only God. Any of us can fall at any time and others can turn to him at anytime, right up until our last breath. Just look at the thief on the cross. Saved in his last hours and going to paradise. So I just take each day as it comes and pray to God for the strength to overcome in that day. As for others living and giving their lives for God like Jesus, the difference that I see between Jesus and others is his wisdom and understanding. I've never heard of anyone who taught or spoke like him. His courage was extraordinary as was the love that was in him that he poured out, even to those who were murdering him. Asking God to forgive them. He absolutely came from God, in that I have no doubt. And he fulfilled all the prophesies told of him in the old testament. Jesus is the Christ, I have no doubt whatsoever on that. By the way, I have never said that Jesus is God. Quote: Saving from what? Original sin? Have faith in what? Having faith in God and being saved from our own sins, every day. We all do wrong, but many see themselves as good and don't see the many things they do are wrong, they see themselves as ok. God turns that right on its head, and if we truly have his indwelling spirit, then he shows us our sins within our hearts by the spirit, and we are taught by jesus that when we know it's wrong, don't do it, deny it . We have free will, and we have choices to make every day. We all go wrong, but with the spirit dwelling in the heart, we should be overcoming the wrong that we do more and more as we become stronger in God and God restrains us giving us a very strong conscience. I am a completely different person to what I used to be. I feel like God has lifted much of that wrong that was in my heart and taken it away. I still go wrong, I'm not perfect, but he is definitely cleaning me out, and the things I did before mean nothing to me anymore. And he helps me overcome my wrong thoughts and feelings every day. I know he is putting my flesh to death daily, and I feel a love in my heart that is stronger than I've every felt before. I know that God is there! maryhig, you said "As for others living and giving their lives for God like Jesus, the difference that I see between Jesus and others is his wisdom and understanding. I've never heard of anyone who taught or spoke like him. His courage was extraordinary as was the love that was in him that he poured out, even to those who were murdering him. " Were you alive when Jesus spoke or taught? No ? All you have to go from is something that was written about Jesus how many years after he died, and written by men in a book that in some cases is idolized more than Jesus himself !
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Post by maryhig on May 18, 2016 3:29:20 GMT -5
First of all, we don't even know who or where anyone is definitely going when they die, I don't even think about it. I leave that in God's hands. I've always said that I don't call anyone unsaved of eternally saved, even myself. When I say saved, I mean from my past sins, before I truly turned to God, and being daily saved by the spirit. No one knows who is and who isn't eternally saved, only God. Any of us can fall at any time and others can turn to him at anytime, right up until our last breath. Just look at the thief on the cross. Saved in his last hours and going to paradise. So I just take each day as it comes and pray to God for the strength to overcome in that day. As for others living and giving their lives for God like Jesus, the difference that I see between Jesus and others is his wisdom and understanding. I've never heard of anyone who taught or spoke like him. His courage was extraordinary as was the love that was in him that he poured out, even to those who were murdering him. Asking God to forgive them. He absolutely came from God, in that I have no doubt. And he fulfilled all the prophesies told of him in the old testament. Jesus is the Christ, I have no doubt whatsoever on that. By the way, I have never said that Jesus is God. Quote: Saving from what? Original sin? Have faith in what? Having faith in God and being saved from our own sins, every day. We all do wrong, but many see themselves as good and don't see the many things they do are wrong, they see themselves as ok. God turns that right on its head, and if we truly have his indwelling spirit, then he shows us our sins within our hearts by the spirit, and we are taught by jesus that when we know it's wrong, don't do it, deny it . We have free will, and we have choices to make every day. We all go wrong, but with the spirit dwelling in the heart, we should be overcoming the wrong that we do more and more as we become stronger in God and God restrains us giving us a very strong conscience. I am a completely different person to what I used to be. I feel like God has lifted much of that wrong that was in my heart and taken it away. I still go wrong, I'm not perfect, but he is definitely cleaning me out, and the things I did before mean nothing to me anymore. And he helps me overcome my wrong thoughts and feelings every day. I know he is putting my flesh to death daily, and I feel a love in my heart that is stronger than I've every felt before. I know that God is there! maryhig, you said "As for others living and giving their lives for God like Jesus, the difference that I see between Jesus and others is his wisdom and understanding. I've never heard of anyone who taught or spoke like him. His courage was extraordinary as was the love that was in him that he poured out, even to those who were murdering him. " Were you alive when Jesus spoke or taught? No ? All you have to go from is something that was written about Jesus how many years after he died, and written by men in a book that in some cases is idolized more than Jesus himself ! The wisdom that Jesus spoke in the bible, isn't from man. Men don't speak like that, men don't act like him and human beings don't love like him, he was in the fullness of Gods spirit. Man may have written the gospels, but they are recounting the words and life of Jesus. This is what John wrote at the end of his gospel. This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. Jesus also said this John 20 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. He knew that his gospel would spread and that many would believe without seeing him. I believe John, and I know that Jesus' testimony is true. I know that he came as a witness to the truth and that he's the Christ, and I know that God is there and that he's a living God because I have experienced him in my life. Not as some imaginary friend, not as something that I've pulled out of a hat, but a true and living God. If you can't see God in the words and life of Jesus, then you definitely don't know God! You once said that you believed, but if you don't believe in the words of Jesus, and see that he came from God, then you don't truly believe. Although I feel that you have become an atheist, by the things you have been agreeing to.
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Post by rational on May 18, 2016 7:11:54 GMT -5
Really? So I have told on here before, of the time that my son and I had a conversation about God. He asked me a question in the afternoon which I couldn't answer. We forgot all about the conversation. My uncle, reading the bible in the meeting that evening, many hours later, stopped, pointed at my son and said good question, then repeated the question and gave the answer. My uncle did this as if he had just heard the question, but the question was asked hours before, in another house and we hadn't said anything to anyone about our discussion. We were stunned, my uncle stopped reading in the middle of the meeting to do this, everybody there we're saying to each other "but nobody asked that, why is he saying that" but my son did ask that, only many hours before, with only him and I there! So how did that happen? and that is only one experience, I have had others like this. There are many possible explanations. Without knowing/observing the events it is difficult to know. Would you uncle be available to have this gift tested? Proving that he had a paranormal power like this could be a huge benefit to mankind. Uri Geller claimed he could bend spoons with his mind. He did a number of things that he claimed were due to his psychic power. As it turned out, he is just an illusionist. A good one who can make people believe he can do all sorts of paranormal things. But at the end of the day they are commonplace and easily explained without the need to invoke any paranormal powers. Many things happen which seem to defy the odds but often it is simply selection basis. Go to a cold reader and they will be heard saying: "I am getting urgent communication from someone regarding a person in your life whose name starts with an "A", "M", or "C". And the victim says "Oh yes. It must be Amy. Or it could be Jim because we always called his Curt." And the cold reader has a wealth of information to build on and the victim can't believe that the reader got the names right. Of course, the reader knew in advance that "A", "M", and "C" are the most popular first initials so there was bound to be a hit.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 7:29:16 GMT -5
Really? So I have told on here before, of the time that my son and I had a conversation about God. He asked me a question in the afternoon which I couldn't answer. We forgot all about the conversation. My uncle, reading the bible in the meeting that evening, many hours later, stopped, pointed at my son and said good question, then repeated the question and gave the answer. My uncle did this as if he had just heard the question, but the question was asked hours before, in another house and we hadn't said anything to anyone about our discussion. We were stunned, my uncle stopped reading in the middle of the meeting to do this, everybody there we're saying to each other "but nobody asked that, why is he saying that" but my son did ask that, only many hours before, with only him and I there! So how did that happen? and that is only one experience, I have had others like this. There are many possible explanations. Without knowing/observing the events it is difficult to know. Would you uncle be available to have this gift tested? Proving that he had a paranormal power like this could be a huge benefit to mankind. Uri Geller claimed he could bend spoons with his mind. He did a number of things that he claimed were due to his psychic power. As it turned out, he is just an illusionist. A good one who can make people believe he can do all sorts of paranormal things. But at the end of the day they are commonplace and easily explained without the need to invoke any paranormal powers. Many things happen which seem to defy the odds but often it is simply selection basis. Go to a cold reader and they will be heard saying: "I am getting urgent communication from someone regarding a person in your life whose name starts with an "A", "M", or "C". And the victim says "Oh yes. It must be Amy. Or it could be Jim because we always called his Curt." And the cold reader has a wealth of information to build on and the victim can't believe that the reader got the names right. Of course, the reader knew in advance that "A", "M", and "C" are the most popular first initials so there was bound to be a hit. So when it is not selection basis and defy the odds, what do you put it down to? may I ask? Near death experiences for example and miracles performed by Jesus etc.
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Post by rational on May 18, 2016 11:14:53 GMT -5
So when it is not selection basis and defy the odds, what do you put it down to? may I ask? Near death experiences for example and miracles performed by Jesus etc. The usual procedure is to ask for proof and the details of how the results were obtained. Other people will then attempt to duplicate the results or re-examine the data and the analysis of the data, a process generally known as peer review. An excellent example of this was the 'discovery' of N-rays by Prosper-René Blondlot and subsequent investigation by others. A true story of experimenter bias and the later correction by peer review. Near death experiences, for example, can be duplicated through the use of drugs or electrostimulation indicating that the observed results have a much more prosaic explanation. You know the expression - when you hear hoof beats in Kansas zebras should not be the first thing that springs into mind. The miracle by Jesus are recorded in the bible with no supporting evidence. If you believe them to be true it is a belief based on faith without material support. And then there is the advice of William of Ockham - Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 11:56:03 GMT -5
So when it is not selection basis and defy the odds, what do you put it down to? may I ask? Near death experiences for example and miracles performed by Jesus etc. The usual procedure is to ask for proof and the details of how the results were obtained. Other people will then attempt to duplicate the results or re-examine the data and the analysis of the data, a process generally known as peer review. An excellent example of this was the 'discovery' of N-rays by Prosper-René Blondlot and subsequent investigation by others. A true story of experimenter bias and the later correction by peer review. Near death experiences, for example, can be duplicated through the use of drugs or electrostimulation indicating that the observed results have a much more prosaic explanation. You know the expression - when you hear hoof beats in Kansas zebras should not be the first thing that springs into mind. The miracle by Jesus are recorded in the bible with no supporting evidence. If you believe them to be true it is a belief based on faith without material support. And then there is the advice of William of Ockham - Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.Ok, just was intereted in hearing it from your side of the fence. It is always a good practice to see from both sides.
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Post by rational on May 18, 2016 13:33:44 GMT -5
An excellent example of this was the 'discovery' of N-rays by Prosper-René Blondlot and subsequent investigation by others. A true story of experimenter bias and the later correction by peer review. Ok, just was intereted in hearing it from your side of the fence. It is always a good practice to see from both sides. The link above to the story about the N-rays points out how a lot of people can look at data and end up with the wrong conclusion. It also points out how errors are eventually eliminated.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 14:12:33 GMT -5
Ok, just was intereted in hearing it from your side of the fence. It is always a good practice to see from both sides. The link above to the story about the N-rays points out how a lot of people can look at data and end up with the wrong conclusion. It also points out how errors are eventually eliminated. Very interesting, I must say.
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Post by Grant on May 18, 2016 14:43:07 GMT -5
Non believers miss out the spiritual dimension which transcends the here and now. What you see is what you get to the non believer. What a small way to look at life.
Expand your horizon. Look beyond the here and now, expect the best and greatest which is yet to come.
The spiritual sees beyond the here and now. There's something beyond us mere humans. It gets better. Have atheists lost their hope? Many suffer with no hope in sight except death? The sky, the universe, all give a glimpse of what's around us and a future beyond this life.
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Post by matisse on May 18, 2016 15:09:32 GMT -5
Non believers miss out the spiritual dimension which transcends the here and now. What you see is what you get to the non believer. What a small way to look at life. Expand your horizon. Look beyond the here and now, expect the best and greatest which is yet to come. The spiritual sees beyond the here and now. There's something beyond us mere humans. It gets better. Have atheists lost their hope? Many suffer with no hope in sight except death? The sky, the universe, all give a glimpse of what's around us and a future beyond this life. Could you not be thankful for and satisfied with what you have right now? Period? If not, why not?
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Post by Grant on May 18, 2016 15:12:20 GMT -5
I am thankful for the past, present and future. My mind is bigger than just the now. A visionary, an optimist.
Eat, drink and be merry you mean, for tomorrow might not come?
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Post by rational on May 18, 2016 15:34:33 GMT -5
Non believers miss out the spiritual dimension which transcends the here and now. What you see is what you get to the non believer. What a small way to look at life. Expand your horizon. Look beyond the here and now, expect the best and greatest which is yet to come. The spiritual sees beyond the here and now. There's something beyond us mere humans. It gets better. Have atheists lost their hope? Many suffer with no hope in sight except death? The sky, the universe, all give a glimpse of what's around us and a future beyond this life. I believe that everyone has dreams but some recognize the difference between the dream and reality. You can choose to live for the unproven hope and dream of something better than the present or you can work to make the present better and enjoy what is rather than what might be.
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Post by matisse on May 18, 2016 15:36:15 GMT -5
I am thankful for the past, present and future. My mind is bigger than just the now. A visionary, an optimist. Eat, drink and be merry you mean, for tomorrow might not come? No, it's not "eat, drink and be merry" for me. That's what a lot of Christians seem to tell themselves about people like me. And my mind is bigger than just the now, too. I am ok with this life being the one I live and for death to be the end.
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Post by Grant on May 18, 2016 15:38:26 GMT -5
You can do both. There is a difference between dreams related to this life and those both in this life and beyond. You omit the spiritual and relate dreams only to this life. A limited way to live. This life is only the beginning.
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Post by Grant on May 18, 2016 15:40:03 GMT -5
Christians don't tell themselves. I thought you believed in facts? That is the belief of many especially teenagers today.
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Post by rational on May 18, 2016 15:44:55 GMT -5
This life is only the beginning. And as proof of this belief you offer...?
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Post by matisse on May 18, 2016 15:46:53 GMT -5
Christians don't tell themselves. I thought you believed in facts? That is the belief of many especially teenagers today. Is this a response to my post? It is not clear. If so, I could easily amend my post to "many Christians seem to believe...." rather than "tell themselves". The rest of your post doesn't make much sense to me.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 18, 2016 16:07:26 GMT -5
Maryhig, I have no idea because I have not all the knowledge of what actually happened.
I am NOT going to try & tell you something when I wasn't there.
But I know there are many ways that it COULD have happened. After all , when you all are in such a meeting you are all thinking about the same kinds of things. Therefore, do you think that it simply could have had been that you & your son & uncle happened to be all thinking about the same thing at the same time?
BTW, did you ever ask your Uncle about why he happened to speak on the subject?
You believe it and you have a right to believe & it seems your faith defends on believing it so just let it go! DMG my son asked me how is God everywhere. To which I couldn't answer. Hours later in the meeting, in the middle of reading the bible, my uncle stopped reading, and out of a full room looked up and pointed right at my son and said "good question how is God everywhere" he said the exact words that my son had asked hours earlier, no question was asked in the meeting, my son and I hadn't been discussing since much earlier on, and it wasn't mentioned in the meeting. It was a complete shock to me and my son. And he now knows that God is there because he knows that he heard him. You can't tell me how that happened because it's inexplicable. The only way it could have happened is if God heard us and answered us. One thing I don't do, is tell lies or make believe. I believe it's wrong to do so, and I fear God too much to lie about something like that, so I wouldn't make things like that up. Everything I've said is true, whether you believe me or not, that's up to you. But, at least I know I'm being honest and that is a true account of what happened, and I could never ever deny God. By the way, you're telling me to let it go, but you keep saying that there are reasonable and rational explanations. So, what are they? As you said, you weren't there. There are no rational explanations. The only explanation is that God heard us! No one is accusing you of telling lies, Marhig. It is wrong to tell a lie but not just because of a "fear" of any god.
Because when a person does not tell the truth, other PEOPLE no longer trust them. That is enough to keep people from telling lies. No need for any god in the equation is even necessary.
NO, I don't think that you are telling any LIES! No, I don't think that you just "made it up."
Why does it matter whether I believe your account of the incident or not?
It isn't my story, it is yours, so why are you so concerned about trying to convince me? Why do you even need me to confirm that it was evidence for the existence of a god?
You keep wanting me to give you a "reasonable and rational" explanation. I gave you one. You have concluded that there are no "rational" explanations and the only explanation is that God heard you!
There are others reasons, but I am not going to tell you any, because you will just think that I am accusing you again.
PS: You never told me what did your uncle said about the incident. Did he give you any reason?
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Post by dmmichgood on May 18, 2016 16:58:08 GMT -5
There are many possible explanations. Without knowing/observing the events it is difficult to know. Would you uncle be available to have this gift tested? Proving that he had a paranormal power like this could be a huge benefit to mankind. Uri Geller claimed he could bend spoons with his mind. He did a number of things that he claimed were due to his psychic power. As it turned out, he is just an illusionist. A good one who can make people believe he can do all sorts of paranormal things. But at the end of the day they are commonplace and easily explained without the need to invoke any paranormal powers. Many things happen which seem to defy the odds but often it is simply selection basis. Go to a cold reader and they will be heard saying: "I am getting urgent communication from someone regarding a person in your life whose name starts with an "A", "M", or "C". And the victim says "Oh yes. It must be Amy. Or it could be Jim because we always called his Curt." And the cold reader has a wealth of information to build on and the victim can't believe that the reader got the names right. Of course, the reader knew in advance that "A", "M", and "C" are the most popular first initials so there was bound to be a hit. So when it is not selection basis and defy the odds, what do you put it down to? may I ask? Near death experiences for example and miracles performed by Jesus etc. A lot of people on this board would get some of their questions answered by taking the magazine Skeptical Inquirer. It's mission statement: “... promotes scientific inquiry, critical investigation, and the use of reason in examining controversial and extraordinary claims.”
A previous mission statement referred to “investigation of paranormal and fringe-science claims,” but the 2006 change recognized and ratified a wider purview for SI that includes new science-related issues at the intersection of science and the public while not ignoring core topics.
It still investigates the paranormal but also investigates newer claims like the company "Luminosity." "Luminosity" sells brain building products like games with claims of staving off age-related declines in memory loss, dementia, and even Alzheimer's disease.
People need to recognize that we humans can often easily be conned into believing something not backed up by evidence. Often the reason is that we want to believe it is true. So in a way we are co-conspirators conning ourselves!
For instance, the "Luminosity" program appealed to me. The reason being that since I am 86 I am concerned about age-related problems, especially so because I saw my mother gradually decline into not recognizing any of her family.
We don't need to worry about any devil or Satan deceiving us! There are real life hucksters just waiting around every corner.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 18, 2016 17:20:26 GMT -5
Non believers miss out the spiritual dimension which transcends the here and now. What you see is what you get to the non believer. What a small way to look at life. Expand your horizon. Look beyond the here and now, expect the best and greatest which is yet to come. The spiritual sees beyond the here and now. There's something beyond us mere humans. It gets better. Have atheists lost their hope? Many suffer with no hope in sight except death? The sky, the universe, all give a glimpse of what's around us and a future beyond this life. If mankind had NOT "looked beyond the here and now and imagined something better," we would still being living n caves & eating meat that was raw.
But it was NOT the "spiritual" in a god which got us to the moon & back. It was looking at our problems and developing the scientific method to solve them .
Atheists haven't lost hope. It is that now we are aware of the fact that in the past we had misplaced our hope in the realm of the supernatural ideas of religion.
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Post by matisse on May 18, 2016 17:23:50 GMT -5
No, it's not "eat, drink and be merry" for me. That's what a lot of Christians seem to tell themselves about people like me. And my mind is bigger than just the now, too. I am ok with this life being the one I live and for death to be the end. I knew a man who said exactly the same thing. This life he had on earth was enough for him. Poor dear man, he fought death's claim longer then any other dying person I've known. He fought it so hard the ischaemic changes in his body racked him so hard with pain but he refused strong pain medicine saying he didn't want to know everything that was going on and so he could control it and live linger. Poor guy didn't understand the symptoms of a dying body. His last days were horrific. I've been a witness to the death of loved ones. I am not naive. Are you looking to generalize from one example?
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Post by dmmichgood on May 18, 2016 17:30:32 GMT -5
No, it's not "eat, drink and be merry" for me. That's what a lot of Christians seem to tell themselves about people like me. And my mind is bigger than just the now, too. I am ok with this life being the one I live and for death to be the end. I knew a man who said exactly the same thing. This life he had on earth was enough for him. Poor dear man, he fought death's claim longer then any other dying person I've known. He fought it so hard the ischaemic changes in his body racked him so hard with pain but he refused strong pain medicine saying he didn't want to know everything that was going on and so he could control it and live linger. Poor guy didn't understand the symptoms of a dying body. His last days were horrific. I don't see how what you say about his death should be a disclaimer of his belief.
I have also seen many Christians fight death even though they believed that they were going to a life after death.
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Post by Grant on May 18, 2016 18:46:32 GMT -5
Maryhig does not limit her mind to the things of this life which can be touched, seen or heard. She thinks beyond to the unknown, the spiritual and the unseen which is at work around us, which cannot be seen, touched or heard. Do you not believe there are dimensions that are beyond our physical senses, dmm?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 19:05:34 GMT -5
Dmmich, That reminds me of an old story I heard many years ago. An old man lived on his own and one day he prepared himself a lovely tasty meal, after eating it, he was so pleased with himself that he shouted out loudly : I am so happy and satisfied after eating that meal, that God can come and take me home tonight. His neighbour overheard him and thought that he would play a trick on him. That night the neighbour knocked on his door loudly, he responded by asking who it was and the neighbour said : I am God and I have come to take you home as requested by you. The old man replied: dear oh dear, cant an old man even make a joke in his own house? I am not really ready to go yet, please God, give me a break! I was only joking.
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Post by Lee on May 18, 2016 20:17:57 GMT -5
"If mankind had NOT "looked beyond the here and now and imagined something better," we would still being living n caves & eating meat that was raw.
But it was NOT the "spiritual" in a god which got us to the moon & back. It was looking at our problems and developing the scientific method to solve them .
Atheists haven't lost hope. It is that now we are aware of the fact that in the past we had misplaced our hope in the realm of the supernatural ideas of religion."
So were coming into our own as it were. Are we becoming more natural? Natural with respect to what? How can anything be native or natural in an accidental universe?
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Post by dmmichgood on May 18, 2016 21:03:04 GMT -5
Dmmich, That reminds me of an old story I heard many years ago. An old man lived on his own and one day he prepared himself a lovely tasty meal, after eating it, he was so pleased with himself that he shouted out loudly : I am so happy and satisfied after eating that meal, that God can come and take me home tonight. His neighbour overheard him and thought that he would play a trick on him. That night the neighbour knocked on his door loudly, he responded by asking who it was and the neighbour said : I am God and I have come to take you home as requested by you. The old man replied: dear oh dear, cant an old man even make a joke in his own house? I am not really ready to go yet, please God, give me a break! I was only joking. Comic story.
Now tell me why what I said reminded you of that story?
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