gells
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Hi sorry
Feb 8, 2016 16:46:10 GMT -5
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Post by gells on Feb 8, 2016 16:46:10 GMT -5
So he only inherited humanity from his mother, and no divinity from his father. Hmmm. Interesting. When I talk about my biological son, it means that he inherited my DNA, but I guess it's different when your father isn't human. Be absolutely honest here. Does the Bible say that or is that someone's idea? Jesus identified the Father as his father, yet the Bible says Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost. So which one was his father from a trin standpoint? Does the bible say what? I didn't give an argument here. Just restating what you believe. And I gave a statement about DNA from 2 parents results in the child being part both parents. Am I wrong about either statement?
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gells
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Hi sorry
Feb 8, 2016 16:49:57 GMT -5
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Post by gells on Feb 8, 2016 16:49:57 GMT -5
Could someone kindly help this old guy (me) by putting a great article on Father, Son and Holy Spirit oneness. THANKS,Maggie.' Site heading == "How is God omnipotent,omnipresent and omniscient?" Well studied and understandable. I'm confused. Do you want an article on oneness doctrine, trinity doctrine, or Gods supernatural attributes? (Oneness disagrees with Trinity)
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Post by magpie on Feb 8, 2016 16:55:49 GMT -5
G'day gell "NO" It is attached to looking up a site called "How is God 0mnipotent,omnipresent and omniscient?"...it covers the Triune of God amongst its paragraphs. Thanks if you or someone could place it on here. Maggie.
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Post by howitis on Feb 8, 2016 17:00:59 GMT -5
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gells
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Hi sorry
Feb 8, 2016 17:10:22 GMT -5
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Post by gells on Feb 8, 2016 17:10:22 GMT -5
Oh!!! Was so so confused! That makes much more sense!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 17:58:40 GMT -5
Be absolutely honest here. Does the Bible say that or is that someone's idea? Jesus identified the Father as his father, yet the Bible says Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost. So which one was his father from a trin standpoint? Does the bible say what? I didn't give an argument here. Just restating what you believe. And I gave a statement about DNA from 2 parents results in the child being part both parents. Am I wrong about either statement? Sorry, I should have qualified my question more. Does the Bible say what you state here? "So he only inherited humanity from his mother, and no divinity from his father. Hmmm. Interesting." Where in the Bible does God say he is "divine?" Jesus was made human in Mary's womb by the power of the Holy Ghost. That's what my Bible says. Nothing about divinity.
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gells
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Hi sorry
Feb 8, 2016 18:07:19 GMT -5
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Post by gells on Feb 8, 2016 18:07:19 GMT -5
Does the bible say what? I didn't give an argument here. Just restating what you believe. And I gave a statement about DNA from 2 parents results in the child being part both parents. Am I wrong about either statement? Sorry, I should have qualified my question more. Does the Bible say what you state here? "So he only inherited humanity from his mother, and no divinity from his father. Hmmm. Interesting." Where in the Bible does God say he is "divine?" Jesus was made human in Mary's womb by the power of the Holy Ghost. That's what my Bible says. Nothing about divinity. Oh brother. I don't think the word divine appears in the bible. Do I have to define it for you? You know what I meant. But whatever. Suit yourself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 18:15:15 GMT -5
Sorry, I should have qualified my question more. Does the Bible say what you state here? "So he only inherited humanity from his mother, and no divinity from his father. Hmmm. Interesting." Where in the Bible does God say he is "divine?" Jesus was made human in Mary's womb by the power of the Holy Ghost. That's what my Bible says. Nothing about divinity. Oh brother. I don't think the word divine appears in the bible. Do I have to define it for you? You know what I meant. But whatever. Suit yourself. Throughout the Old Testament and through Jesus in the New Testament God reveals his characteristics. He is not shy to define himself. Nowhere does God describe himself as divine, yet theologians through the term about like confetti. The term 'divine' is rarely used in the Bible but is not used in the context that many theologians use it.
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gells
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Hi sorry
Feb 8, 2016 18:31:08 GMT -5
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Post by gells on Feb 8, 2016 18:31:08 GMT -5
You are being arbitrary. I'm obviously not as eloquent as you and know all the right words and terms. And it doesn't really matter what I say. You are quite aware of what I was trying to say. I used my own words and I took none of it from the bible. I was summing up your belief and throwing a little bit of my own thought on the matter. You believe that Jesus was a man and did not inherit his fathers identity (god hood, whatever term fits best). Better? You also believe that he was a created being. I know what you believe. I used to believe it as well. I used to stand in your spot and had an argument for everything. But now, I can't say that I know everything. I never will, and that's okay. God is incomprehensible and I will never understand everything about him, and the things I do know, I may not be able to put into words.
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gells
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Post by gells on Feb 8, 2016 18:47:31 GMT -5
Be careful Nathan, we can't read John 1 as it's written.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 20:51:39 GMT -5
Does the bible say what? I didn't give an argument here. Just restating what you believe. And I gave a statement about DNA from 2 parents results in the child being part both parents. Am I wrong about either statement? Sorry, I should have qualified my question more. Does the Bible say what you state here? "So he only inherited humanity from his mother, and no divinity from his father. Hmmm. Interesting." Where in the Bible does God say he is "divine?" Jesus was made human in Mary's womb by the power of the Holy Ghost. That's what my Bible says. Nothing about divinity. How do you interpret Colossians 2:9? Maybe use your Strong's Bible Dictionary or some other such device to see what the word "deity" or "godhead" means... And re: God being described as divine...check out Romans 1, specifically vs 20... ***Altho' if you're using a KJV you will have to look up what the word Godhead refers to..."divinity" or "divine nature"...other translations (such as the ESV that I read) translate it that way.
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Post by fixit on Feb 8, 2016 20:53:14 GMT -5
Be careful Nathan, we can't read John 1 as it's written. No, because the English was written by trinitarians. Try reading the original Greek, but first you would need to understand the thought processes of the Greek culture of 2000 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 21:13:42 GMT -5
3056 lógos (from 3004 /légō, "speaking to a conclusion") – a word, being the expression of a thought; a saying. 3056 /lógos ("word") is preeminently used of Christ (Jn 1:1), expressing the thoughts of the Father through the Spirit.
We're doing a study in John at church currently...this is the way the translation of "word" was described to us: a personification of a communication of all God's will and ways. I like that...and it seems to fit with the Greek word that "word" was translated from. I am unable to think like a Greek person from 2000 years ago, but...Jesus was a personified expression of God's thoughts...of God's plan, message, command, revelation, reason, motive, purpose, power, promise, etc...which, I've read, are a few other "acceptable" translations for the word "word" as it is used in other areas of the Bible...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 21:33:40 GMT -5
I attended (via simulcast) a women's Christian conference (IF Gathering) over the weekend. The first session was on who Jesus is and the speaker had this to say about John 1:1...I don't know her sources, but found it interesting since the subject of Greek culture came up.
"In the Greek culture the word “logos” referred to the reason of God. Referred to a pattern and a purpose in life, helped you understand right from wrong…a way of understanding how to live. “Logos” is the connector between people and God. So for those of that culture who were looking for something to take a world of chaos and turn it into order, searching for the right way to live, searching for meaning and purpose…John was saying look no further: He is in the flesh and His name is Jesus."
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gells
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Hi sorry
Feb 8, 2016 21:40:53 GMT -5
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Post by gells on Feb 8, 2016 21:40:53 GMT -5
Be careful Nathan, we can't read John 1 as it's written. No, because the English was written by trinitarians. Try reading the original Greek, but first you would need to understand the thought processes of the Greek culture of 2000 years ago. Ah. But of course. God had no control over the first English translation of his word, and we must question everything written in it!! Because God does not want to be discovered too easily! It must take additional translation! (Even in the days in which no one could!) Poor guy was burned at the stake and for what purpose!?
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Post by fixit on Feb 8, 2016 23:34:07 GMT -5
No, because the English was written by trinitarians. Try reading the original Greek, but first you would need to understand the thought processes of the Greek culture of 2000 years ago. Ah. But of course. God had no control over the first English translation of his word, and we must question everything written in it!! Because God does not want to be discovered too easily! It must take additional translation! (Even in the days in which no one could!) Poor guy was burned at the stake and for what purpose!? Here's an early English version... Fæder ure þu þe eart on heofonum, Si þin nama gehalgod. to becume þin rice, gewurþe ðin willa, on eorðan swa swa on heofonum. urne gedæghwamlican hlaf syle us todæg, and forgyf us ure gyltas, swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum. and ne gelæd þu us on costnunge, ac alys us of yfele. soþlice.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 23:40:26 GMT -5
Ah. But of course. God had no control over the first English translation of his word, and we must question everything written in it!! Because God does not want to be discovered too easily! It must take additional translation! (Even in the days in which no one could!) Poor guy was burned at the stake and for what purpose!? Here's an early English version... Fæder ure þu þe eart on heofonum, Si þin nama gehalgod. to becume þin rice, gewurþe ðin willa, on eorðan swa swa on heofonum. urne gedæghwamlican hlaf syle us todæg, and forgyf us ure gyltas, swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum. and ne gelæd þu us on costnunge, ac alys us of yfele. soþlice. Of the Lord's Prayer???
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gells
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Post by gells on Feb 8, 2016 23:49:35 GMT -5
Hahahaha. Very funny. As if you didn't know that I was talking about a readable translation. Split hairs all you want. You understand the point of what I'm saying. Gods in charge.
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Post by fixit on Feb 8, 2016 23:50:34 GMT -5
Which of the following is the real thing? The Lord's Prayer in EnglishOld EnglishMatthew 6.9 (WSCp, 11th c.) Fæder ure þu þe eart on heofonum; Si þin nama gehalgod to becume þin rice gewurþe ðin willa on eorðan swa swa on heofonum. urne gedæghwamlican hlaf syle us todæg and forgyf us ure gyltas swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum and ne gelæd þu us on costnunge ac alys us of yfele soþlice. (Corpus Christi College MS 140, ed. Liuzza (1994)) Lord's Prayer I (Exeter Book,10th c.) [....]g fæder, þu þe on heofonum eardast, geweorðad wuldres dreame. Sy þinum weorcum halgad noma niþþa bearnum; þu eart nergend wera. Cyme þin rice wide, ond þin rædfæst willa aræred under rodores hrofe, eac þon on rumre foldan. Syle us to dæge domfæstne blæd, hlaf userne, helpend wera, 8 þone singalan, soðfæst meotod. Ne læt usic costunga cnyssan to swiðe, ac þu us freodom gief, folca waldend, from yfla gewham, a to widan feore. (The Exeter Book, ed. Krapp and Dobbie 1936) Middle EnglishMatthew 6.9 (Wycliffe's translation, c. 1380) Oure fadir that art in heuenes, halewid be thi name; thi kyndoom come to; be thi wille don in erthe as in heuene: gyue to us this dai oure breed ouer othir substaunce; and forgyue to us oure dettis, as we forgyuen to oure gettouris; and lede us not in to temptacioun, but delyuere us fro yuel. Early Modern EnglishBook of Common Prayer (1559) Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen. (Morning prayer; modern spelling edition, ed. Booty (1976)) The Geneva Bible (1602) Our Father which art in heauen, hallowed be thy Name.Thy kingdome come. Thy will be done euen in earth, as it is in heauen.Giue vs this day our daily bread.And forgiue vs our debts, as we also forgiue our debters.And lead vs not into tentation, but deliuer vs from euill: for thine is the kingdome, and the power, and the glory for euer. Amen. (1607 printing, ed. Sheppard (1989)) The King James Bible (1611) Our father which art in heauen, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdome come. Thy will be done, in earth, as it is in heauen.Giue vs this day our daily bread.And forgiue vs our debts, as we forgiue our debters.And lead vs not into temptation, but deliuer vs from euill: For thine is the kingdome, and the power, and the glory, for euer, Amen. (word-for-word reprint, Thomas Nelson Publishers) Late Modern EnglishBook of Common Prayer (1928) Our Father, who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, As we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen. The New Testament in Modern English (1963, tr. Phillips) Our Heavenly Father, may your name be honored; May your kingdom come, and your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day the bread we need, Forgive us what we owe to you, as we have also forgiven those who owe anything to us. Keep us clear of temptation, and save us from evil. The Alba House New Testament (1970, tr. Condon) Our Father in Heaven, let your holy name be known, let your kingdom come, and your will be done, on earth as in heaven. Give us today the bread that we need, and forgive us our wrongs, as we forgive those who have done wrong to us. Do not lead us into trial, but save us from evil. www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Words04/history/paternoster.html
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Post by fixit on Feb 8, 2016 23:58:04 GMT -5
Hahahaha. Very funny. As if you didn't know that I was talking about a readable translation. Split hairs all you want. You understand the point of what I'm saying. Gods in charge. Your comment: Be careful Nathan, we can't read John 1 as it's written. Perhaps you could try reading the following passage "as it is written"... John 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
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gells
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Post by gells on Feb 9, 2016 0:51:23 GMT -5
Hahahaha. Very funny. As if you didn't know that I was talking about a readable translation. Split hairs all you want. You understand the point of what I'm saying. Gods in charge. Your comment: Be careful Nathan, we can't read John 1 as it's written. Perhaps you could try reading the following passage "as it is written"... John 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” Yes. He was getting ready to die. He wasn't going to be there anymore. He was ascending to heaven to be with God, The Father.
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 9, 2016 1:01:00 GMT -5
I attended (via simulcast) a women's Christian conference (IF Gathering) over the weekend. The first session was on who Jesus is and the speaker had this to say about John 1:1... I don't know her sources, but found it interesting since the subject of Greek culture came up. "In the Greek culture the word “logos” referred to the reason of God. Perhaps it would be a good idea to check out other sources for the term Logos since you said you "don't know her sources."
I have found it to be a good idea to check not only the sources but the sources behind the sources to get a more complete definition and the subject being discussed Greek: Logos is an important term in western philosophy, psychology, rhetoric, and religion. It is a Greek word meaning "a ground", "a plea", "an opinion", "an expectation", "word", "speech", "account", "to reason" but it became a technical term in philosophy beginning with Heraclitus (ca. 535–475 BC), who used the term for a principle of order and knowledge.[3]
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Post by fixit on Feb 9, 2016 1:01:17 GMT -5
Your comment: Perhaps you could try reading the following passage "as it is written"... John 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” Yes. He was getting ready to die. He wasn't going to be there anymore. He was ascending to heaven to be with God, The Father. More than "the Father". The father of Jesus, and the God of Jesus.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 2:53:08 GMT -5
Sorry, I should have qualified my question more. Does the Bible say what you state here? "So he only inherited humanity from his mother, and no divinity from his father. Hmmm. Interesting." Where in the Bible does God say he is "divine?" Jesus was made human in Mary's womb by the power of the Holy Ghost. That's what my Bible says. Nothing about divinity. How do you interpret Colossians 2:9? Maybe use your Strong's Bible Dictionary or some other such device to see what the word "deity" or "godhead" means... And re: God being described as divine...check out Romans 1, specifically vs 20... ***Altho' if you're using a KJV you will have to look up what the word Godhead refers to..."divinity" or "divine nature"...other translations (such as the ESV that I read) translate it that way. Whilst I often use devices like Strong's or other sources for guidance, I am particularly conscious these are recent tools. The religious world has been so indoctrinated with terms like divine and Godhead, trinity etc, the compilers are virtually persuaded of certain understandings, so we have to be careful and let the Bible determine for us what certain things actually mean. In Judaism 'Godhead was regarded as the unknowable aspect of God whereas in Christianity it is the substantial essence or nature of God. We see this in Jesus in whom the Godhead dwelt fully. The nature of God dwelt fully in him. This too should be your portion as God comes to abide in you. The Godhead, or nature of God dwells within you, if you are truly following Christ. This is easily and 'simply' seen in Romans 1:20. 'For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead (essence or nature); so that they are without excuse.'Study the context of that statement to see the accuracy. Does the created world transmit a message of the power and 'nature' of God, by which man may be judged, or will people be judged because they cannot see the trinity in it? All this talk about deities and divinities belongs largely to paganism. Be very, very careful about how you use them. Trust the word of God and let his Spirit guide you in your studies. Be careful about placing your confidence in man, including me!
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gells
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Post by gells on Feb 9, 2016 9:10:25 GMT -5
Yes. He was getting ready to die. He wasn't going to be there anymore. He was ascending to heaven to be with God, The Father. More than "the Father". The father of Jesus, and the God of Jesus. Correct.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 9:25:47 GMT -5
More than "the Father". The father of Jesus, and the God of Jesus. Correct. I agree with you agreeing with fixit.
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gells
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Post by gells on Feb 9, 2016 9:58:26 GMT -5
The Son called the Father His "God" The Father called the Son " Thou Lord/Kurios" and "Thy throne, Oh God" in Hebrews 1:8-12....
In the Old Testament... Ps. 45:6-7 and Isa. 61:1 But unto the Son he/God saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
My question is how can that be? Unless it's true for Both... The Father and the Son Both are God/Elohim=Plural. Well put. Thanks.
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gells
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Post by gells on Feb 9, 2016 10:00:51 GMT -5
I agree with you agreeing with fixit. Nathan has explained it very well. Straight from scripture. This doesn't go against anything I've said yet.
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