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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 17:24:49 GMT -5
Sorry to my friends that i left so abruptly, but it was time for me to go.
I have been on this board and other boards before this one and nothing has really changed, same old accusations and wringing of hands.
Many have speculated on my reason for leaving, many have been wrong and have reinforced my leaving.
This is one example of complete untruth from a claimed Christian and one of the good reasons i have left.
another from enuf who claiming to be Christian verses another complete untruth.
These are complete lies against those who have done no wrong to me and it causes me pain in my heart to read such things.
Apart from making another post on Where is virgo thread that will be all from me.
God bless you all and help you to know truth in your hearts.
Virgo/Kiwi
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Post by maryhig on Jan 28, 2016 17:43:33 GMT -5
Sorry to my friends that i left so abruptly, but it was time for me to go. I have been on this board and other boards before this one and nothing has really changed, same old accusations and wringing of hands. Many have speculated on my reason for leaving, many have been wrong and have reinforced my leaving. This is one example of complete untruth from a claimed Christian and one of the good reasons i have left. another from enuf who claiming to be Christian verses another complete untruth. These are complete lies against those who have done no wrong to me and it causes me pain in my heart to read such things. Apart from making another post on Where is virgo thread that will be all from me. God bless you all and help you to know truth in your hearts. Virgo/Kiwi I know you have to do what's right for you, but I will be sorry to see you go. I have enjoyed speaking with you and reading your posts. Maybe if you don't delete your account, you can still keep in touch with your friends. But you have to do what you think is best. Thanks for being kind to me when i first came here. Also for sharing the things you've seen, I loved your post about the water from the tap that hit the top of the milk bottle and covered it, and you saw it was like the armour of God. I thought that was great light. Anyway, I hope all is well for you. Your friend in God.... Mary
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 17:53:42 GMT -5
Virgs, you have to do what is best for you, either temporarily or permanently. I had a fairly long absence away from this board and only intended to return very briefly. It has been nice knowing you Virgs and I loved running my posts passed you. Anyway, you take care. I won't be very long behind you.
That chap 'nuf has a hard neck getting onto me for stating my opinions regarding scripture when he's carrying on like this with others, especially with our Virgs.
'Nuf of 'nuf I say!
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Post by Grant on Jan 28, 2016 20:34:43 GMT -5
When people who have been on the board suddenly start leaving one is only left to speculate. Note I also suggested you might have been raptured. I gave options. I wrote that after you left so it could not have been a reason you left.
You wouldn't have been the first person who left after a worker talking to, for being on this board if you had, so not such an unlikely explanation. Wonder if it caused you pain in your heart when someone else was told to leave.
Don't want to cause you pain though. All the best and will miss some of the threads you post.
Ram, i do not get into you for stating your opinion of Scripture. I challenge you for saying that people who believe different from you get their understanding from satan.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 6:06:59 GMT -5
'NUF, As you know, all falsehood comes from satan. He is the great deceiver and deceives the whole world. When I am deceived I know who the Father of Lies is. We are in spiritual warfare, that is why we must "rightly divine" the word of God, otherwise we are easy prey for the bad guy. Note the correct use of the term "divine?" We must rightly seek out the Word of God.
Can I ask you to be hypothetical for a minute?
Let's consider the trinity belief is a false belief, but one which is believed by the Christian masses. Now who is the Father of that lie?
I am not attacking people personally but what I consider to be false practices and beliefs which can come from no other source but the Father of lies. I have been and likely am guilty of false beliefs, but I constantly challenge my beliefs and diligently seek out the truth of the matter. I have dealt with many fraud cases in my life. Sometimes you really need to properly investigate matters to get to the truth.
Now, if you or anyone else (including myself) is deceived by false beliefs, would we not want these pointed out and to recognise from whom and why they came about in the first place?
On the subject of speculation, I will add a "speculation." This is to be seen in no other light. If people are complaining to or raising issues with workers about other workers or friends participating on these boards, then the workers will rapidly get fed up with these approaches. "If" they have asked/told friends and workers to desist from posting, in order to save them a lot of unnecessary grief, etc., then who can blame them?
We cannot have everything our own way!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 23:11:14 GMT -5
'NUF, As you know, all falsehood comes from satan. He is the great deceiver and deceives the whole world. When I am deceived I know who the Father of Lies is. We are in spiritual warfare, that is why we must "rightly divine" the word of God, otherwise we are easy prey for the bad guy. Note the correct use of the term "divine?" We must rightly seek out the Word of God. Can I ask you to be hypothetical for a minute? Let's consider the trinity belief is a false belief, but one which is believed by the Christian masses. Now who is the Father of that lie? I am not attacking people personally but what I consider to be false practices and beliefs which can come from no other source but the Father of lies. I have been and likely am guilty of false beliefs, but I constantly challenge my beliefs and diligently seek out the truth of the matter. I have dealt with many fraud cases in my life. Sometimes you really need to properly investigate matters to get to the truth. Now, if you or anyone else (including myself) is deceived by false beliefs, would we not want these pointed out and to recognise from whom and why they came about in the first place? On the subject of speculation, I will add a "speculation." This is to be seen in no other light. If people are complaining to or raising issues with workers about other workers or friends participating on these boards, then the workers will rapidly get fed up with these approaches. "If" they have asked/told friends and workers to desist from posting, in order to save them a lot of unnecessary grief, etc., then who can blame them? We cannot have everything our own way! How do you know your interpretation of scripture is correct? Have you "hypothetically" thought about the trinity as a true and scriptural belief and what that would mean for your faith? I know there is that whole "if everyone jumped off a bridge" analogy, but does it not mean anything to you that the vast majority of Christians, including theologians who have studied the Bible and know much more about the translations and original texts than I could ever hope to, believe the trinity to be an essential Christian doctrine? I may not be able to fathom or even correctly explain how God can be one person and 3 beings, but it is SO clear to me that Jesus HAS to be so much more than a man. And there is simply too much scripture that leads me to the same conclusion for me to ignore it, even hypothetically. You can share your opinions on something, what you THINK, all the live-long day...but there is a difference between your convictions and Biblical truth. If your convictions aren't backed up by scripture, by God's own words, then they aren't really very meaningful.......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 3:54:39 GMT -5
'NUF, As you know, all falsehood comes from satan. He is the great deceiver and deceives the whole world. When I am deceived I know who the Father of Lies is. We are in spiritual warfare, that is why we must "rightly divine" the word of God, otherwise we are easy prey for the bad guy. Note the correct use of the term "divine?" We must rightly seek out the Word of God. Can I ask you to be hypothetical for a minute? Let's consider the trinity belief is a false belief, but one which is believed by the Christian masses. Now who is the Father of that lie? I am not attacking people personally but what I consider to be false practices and beliefs which can come from no other source but the Father of lies. I have been and likely am guilty of false beliefs, but I constantly challenge my beliefs and diligently seek out the truth of the matter. I have dealt with many fraud cases in my life. Sometimes you really need to properly investigate matters to get to the truth. Now, if you or anyone else (including myself) is deceived by false beliefs, would we not want these pointed out and to recognise from whom and why they came about in the first place? On the subject of speculation, I will add a "speculation." This is to be seen in no other light. If people are complaining to or raising issues with workers about other workers or friends participating on these boards, then the workers will rapidly get fed up with these approaches. "If" they have asked/told friends and workers to desist from posting, in order to save them a lot of unnecessary grief, etc., then who can blame them? We cannot have everything our own way! How do you know your interpretation of scripture is correct? Have you "hypothetically" thought about the trinity as a true and scriptural belief and what that would mean for your faith? I know there is that whole "if everyone jumped off a bridge" analogy, but does it not mean anything to you that the vast majority of Christians, including theologians who have studied the Bible and know much more about the translations and original texts than I could ever hope to, believe the trinity to be an essential Christian doctrine? I may not be able to fathom or even correctly explain how God can be one person and 3 beings, but it is SO clear to me that Jesus HAS to be so much more than a man. And there is simply too much scripture that leads me to the same conclusion for me to ignore it, even hypothetically. You can share your opinions on something, what you THINK, all the live-long day...but there is a difference between your convictions and Biblical truth. If your convictions aren't backed up by scripture, by God's own words, then they aren't really very meaningful....... Beth on every occasion I back up my beliefs with scripture. In fact I only use scripture itself, NOT other peoples' interpretations or explanations. I deliberately REMAIN within scripture. The trouble is that all I get is this type of accusation/remarks. So far NO ONE has had the courage to properly address what I write (except perhaps Nathan with his myriad of copy and pastes and youtubes). I try to give "meanings" to scripture I quote but no one responds with their understandings of these things.At least THREE times recently I have beseeched people NOT to believe what I say but to make oneself approved of God and to diligently seek these things out for themselves, like the noble Bereans did. Search the scriptures to see if things are so. We need to approach them with in a proper condition before God and to put every other thought or influence to one side, using an unbiased and contrite mind. I cannot ask anyone to do more than that. I would like you to show me one occasion where my beliefs have not been backed up by scripture. Can you do it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 4:15:03 GMT -5
Ross stated:
Nice post Beth. None of us with our human limitations fully understand or comprehend all aspects about the God we love and worship. But we know that our God entered humanity in the person Jesus and that through Him we have access to the Father.
God entered humanity by expressing himself by word and deed through his only begotten human being Son, Jesus. This was his plan. The OT prophecies and Jesus confirm it. Nowhere in the OT does God state that he himself, or part of him, or a spiritual being would come down to Earth. God foretold that he would raise up a human being, like Moses. Think!
When we look at Gods plan for humanity as revealed in the Bible it would seem impossible to arrive at a conclusion that Jesus did not exist before He was born as a man and that He is not part of the Godhead.
I formerly believed that Jesus existed as a spirit prior to his human conception and birth, but this was undoubtedly due to all that I had heard from my youth up from various quarters. After much diligent searching I now believe that to be false. There are plenty of sources out there which explain all this. However, I have had things confirmed to me from scripture.
As a professing person said to me recently - I don't understand it fully but Jesus is deserving of all honour and glory.
I can't think of a reason why we wouldn't want to ascribe Him that honour and glory.
God himself ascribes him with all glory and honour for what he achieved as a human being with his help. Why shouldn't we?
I wonder what the purpose is of those who just want Him to be a man? I certainly don't want that - no man can save me or make me righteous before God. It could only be a sinless man. One who is completely Holy. No one is completely Holy except God.
Ross, I don't "want" to see Jesus as just a man. I want to see the TRUTH of Jesus and yes the truth is that he was just a man, whom was born with the sPIRIT OF gOD, THAT SAME SPIRIT THAT "WE" must also be born again with. God himself honours those who honour him. Jesus was Holy because he laid down his life to God. I'd be interested to know if there is such a thing as being "part-Holy?" We are called by Jesus to "be ye holy as he (God) is holy!" I think God and Jesus deal in "Holiness" NOT part-Holiness. You are either Holy or you are not!
Now that gives me certain hope for the future!
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Hi sorry
Feb 2, 2016 4:31:33 GMT -5
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Post by Grant on Feb 2, 2016 4:31:33 GMT -5
Ram, what Nathan posted he has posted 100 times before. Why keep repeating ourselves. There are many threads that talk about the trinity and I am one that does not wish to post another trinity thread. Search for some, seek and you will find - trinity threads
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 4:48:17 GMT -5
Ram, what Nathan posted he has posted 100 times before. Why keep repeating ourselves. There are many threads that talk about the trinity and I am one that does not wish to post another trinity thread. Search for some, seek and you will find - trinity threads 'Nuf you clearly don't understand me. I was once "persuaded" by trinitarian belief, until I "thoroughly" researched the matter and took it to God, who over a period of time has loosened the scales from my eyes and given me a clear understanding of who he is, who Jesus is and what the Holy Spirit is. You are preaching to the "converted!" You are pointing to "Trinity" threads. If you care to look at some of them you will find that I was often an active participant. I prefer to point people to God's word, not man's ideas.
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Hi sorry
Feb 2, 2016 4:57:12 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Grant on Feb 2, 2016 4:57:12 GMT -5
You ask for us to quote Scripture. I was saying we have quoted Scripture on plenty of threads, just go to the trinity threads and see.
I and so did others believe as you do but have prayed, read scripture and sort God's truth on it and he revealed something different from you long before i heard the word trinity.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 5:07:54 GMT -5
You ask for us to quote Scripture. I was saying we have quoted Scripture on plenty of threads, just go to the trinity threads and see. I and so did others believe as you do but have prayed, read scripture and sort God's truth on it and he revealed something different from you long before i heard the word trinity. Okay 'nuf, I will accept what you say. It would have been far more helpful if you had engaged by quoting these scriptural references and giving your beliefs on their meanings. The absence of such, unfortunately leaves much to be desired.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 13:31:24 GMT -5
How do you know your interpretation of scripture is correct? Have you "hypothetically" thought about the trinity as a true and scriptural belief and what that would mean for your faith? I know there is that whole "if everyone jumped off a bridge" analogy, but does it not mean anything to you that the vast majority of Christians, including theologians who have studied the Bible and know much more about the translations and original texts than I could ever hope to, believe the trinity to be an essential Christian doctrine? I may not be able to fathom or even correctly explain how God can be one person and 3 beings, but it is SO clear to me that Jesus HAS to be so much more than a man. And there is simply too much scripture that leads me to the same conclusion for me to ignore it, even hypothetically. You can share your opinions on something, what you THINK, all the live-long day...but there is a difference between your convictions and Biblical truth. If your convictions aren't backed up by scripture, by God's own words, then they aren't really very meaningful....... Beth on every occasion I back up my beliefs with scripture. In fact I only use scripture itself, NOT other peoples' interpretations or explanations. I deliberately REMAIN within scripture. The trouble is that all I get is this type of accusation/remarks. So far NO ONE has had the courage to properly address what I write (except perhaps Nathan with his myriad of copy and pastes and youtubes). I try to give "meanings" to scripture I quote but no one responds with their understandings of these things.At least THREE times recently I have beseeched people NOT to believe what I say but to make oneself approved of God and to diligently seek these things out for themselves, like the noble Bereans did. Search the scriptures to see if things are so. We need to approach them with in a proper condition before God and to put every other thought or influence to one side, using an unbiased and contrite mind. I cannot ask anyone to do more than that. I would like you to show me one occasion where my beliefs have not been backed up by scripture. Can you do it? How do you interpret John 8:58 where Jesus says "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." In that verse not only is He claiming pre-existence to Abraham but also using the same name God gave Himself in Exodus...
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gells
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Post by gells on Feb 2, 2016 16:51:29 GMT -5
Isaiah 9:6 is an old testament verse about the coming messiah, and refers to him as what? Check it out.... For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
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Post by fixit on Feb 2, 2016 23:58:24 GMT -5
Isaiah 9:6 is an old testament verse about the coming messiah, and refers to him as what? Check it out.... For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Ask Jews what that verse means - it was their language and culture. www.whatjewsbelieve.org/prooftext6is96.html
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 0:05:18 GMT -5
Isaiah 9:6 is an old testament verse about the coming messiah, and refers to him as what? Check it out.... For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Ask Jews what that verse means - it was their language and culture. www.whatjewsbelieve.org/prooftext6is96.htmlSurely you don't believe anything in this article...right? Why would reading what a Jew thinks about who Jesus is be helpful in this discussion? This article, in addition to supporting their claim that Jesus was NOT the Son of God at all (not to mention God the Son), it also mocks and belittles Jesus...referring to Him as a hypocrite. How is this helpful at all in a trinity discussion?
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Post by fixit on Feb 3, 2016 1:03:56 GMT -5
Surely you don't believe anything in this article...right? Why would reading what a Jew thinks about who Jesus is be helpful in this discussion? This article, in addition to supporting their claim that Jesus was NOT the Son of God at all (not to mention God the Son), it also mocks and belittles Jesus...referring to Him as a hypocrite. How is this helpful at all in a trinity discussion? You make the mistake of judging the writer, and everything he says, instead of considering the merits of the relevant portion.
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Post by withlove on Feb 3, 2016 3:26:39 GMT -5
Sorry to my friends that i left so abruptly, but it was time for me to go. I have been on this board and other boards before this one and nothing has really changed, same old accusations and wringing of hands. Many have speculated on my reason for leaving, many have been wrong and have reinforced my leaving. This is one example of complete untruth from a claimed Christian and one of the good reasons i have left. another from enuf who claiming to be Christian verses another complete untruth. These are complete lies against those who have done no wrong to me and it causes me pain in my heart to read such things. Apart from making another post on Where is virgo thread that will be all from me. God bless you all and help you to know truth in your hearts. Virgo/Kiwi I sympathize with your feeling of being misunderstood and also with our judgements of others being reinforced in our minds. It's easy for all of us to make assumptions of others' agendas, especially in lumping people together in groups. I do it. We all do. To a degree, it is helpful to judge for our own safety. It also hinders us from effective learning...getting clarity on facts. In a lot of instances, there is no conspiracy, and we are mostly individuals operating the best we can based on our biases from past experiences. It's hard to read posts that contradict our own reality or what we perceive as reality. I force myself to do so sometimes because I've learned so much from opposite views. It's humbling. And also I understand your decision to leave...it can be the best thing. Will miss your input. Hope you come back after a break!
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 3, 2016 4:05:00 GMT -5
Surely you don't believe anything in this article...right? Why would reading what a Jew thinks about who Jesus is be helpful in this discussion? This article, in addition to supporting their claim that Jesus was NOT the Son of God at all (not to mention God the Son), it also mocks and belittles Jesus...referring to Him as a hypocrite. How is this helpful at all in a trinity discussion? Well for starters they dreamed up the old testament.
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gells
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Hi sorry
Feb 3, 2016 11:32:29 GMT -5
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Post by gells on Feb 3, 2016 11:32:29 GMT -5
Ummmm. If you knew anything about the Jews, you would know that they don't believe that Jesus is Christ, so why would I trust their view of the book that prophesies of him? Matthew was quite clear in his book of the many prophesies coming true through Jesus' life!
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Post by xna on Feb 3, 2016 11:48:09 GMT -5
Ummmm. If you knew anything about the Jews, you would know that they don't believe that Jesus is Christ, so why would I trust their view of the book that prophesies of him? Matthew was quite clear in his book of the many prophesies coming true through Jesus' life! News Flash! A new Prediction 800-Year-Old Jewish Prophecy Declares 2016 will be the year the Messiah the King will be revealed, so says Yalkut Shimoni
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Post by fixit on Feb 3, 2016 13:29:33 GMT -5
Ummmm. If you knew anything about the Jews, you would know that they don't believe that Jesus is Christ, so why would I trust their view of the book that prophesies of him? Matthew was quite clear in his book of the many prophesies coming true through Jesus' life! It's almost comical how Jewish culture is dismissed as irrelevant except when it comes to their accusations of blasphemy against Jesus. All of a sudden their opinion of the claims Jesus made is used by trinitarians to prove that Jesus is God.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 13:31:18 GMT -5
Ummmm. If you knew anything about the Jews, you would know that they don't believe that Jesus is Christ, so why would I trust their view of the book that prophesies of him? Matthew was quite clear in his book of the many prophesies coming true through Jesus' life! News Flash! A new Prediction 800-Year-Old Jewish Prophecy Declares 2016 will be the year the Messiah the King will be revealed, so says Yalkut Shimoni what happened to the seven years of tribulation such as the world has never seen?
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Post by xna on Feb 3, 2016 13:52:04 GMT -5
what happened to the seven years of tribulation such as the world has never seen?
These two are linked Daniel 12:1 & Matthew 24:21-22 " ref: www.lightforthelastdays.co.uk/Timing%20of%20the%20Messiah.pdf
At that time Michael shall stand up, the great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, every one who is found written in the book.’ Daniel 12:1
Similar words are also to be found in the חדשה ברית B’rith Hadasha (New Covenant / Testament) concerning the coming back of Yeshua (Jesus) the Messiah. He also said that these days would be preceded by a time of unique trouble:
For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:21-22." My guess is there will be a new version around Jan 2017.
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gells
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Post by gells on Feb 3, 2016 15:17:50 GMT -5
Ummmm. If you knew anything about the Jews, you would know that they don't believe that Jesus is Christ, so why would I trust their view of the book that prophesies of him? Matthew was quite clear in his book of the many prophesies coming true through Jesus' life! It's almost comical how Jewish culture is dismissed as irrelevant except when it comes to their accusations of blasphemy against Jesus. All of a sudden their opinion of the claims Jesus made is used by trinitarians to prove that Jesus is God. Actually, I don't find that Jewish culture is irrelevant at all! Their culture and religion is extremely relevant. If you understood how their sacrificial system worked, you would see that Jesus had to be more than just a perfect man, in order to be the perfect sacrifice. I just find it comical that the argument used a culture that doesn't view Jesus as the son of God to prove that he isn't who Christians say he is... Jews have all sorts of explanations, but all in all, they try to steer clear of the book of Isaiah. One of the workers in meeting actually once said that Isaiah is the greatest way to preach to gospel to Jews, because it is their scripture as well. Isaiah points to Jesus, whether we think so, or whether the jews think so, or not. They don't believe that Jesus is the messiah, so of course they don't think that Isaiah points to Jesus. This is not difficult to figure out... Edited to add: Why would we use their flawed view of scripture to prove a point??
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Post by fixit on Feb 3, 2016 17:06:24 GMT -5
It's almost comical how Jewish culture is dismissed as irrelevant except when it comes to their accusations of blasphemy against Jesus. All of a sudden their opinion of the claims Jesus made is used by trinitarians to prove that Jesus is God. Actually, I don't find that Jewish culture is irrelevant at all! Their culture and religion is extremely relevant. If you understood how their sacrificial system worked, you would see that Jesus had to be more than just a perfect man, in order to be the perfect sacrifice. I just find it comical that the argument used a culture that doesn't view Jesus as the son of God to prove that he isn't who Christians say he is... Jews have all sorts of explanations, but all in all, they try to steer clear of the book of Isaiah. One of the workers in meeting actually once said that Isaiah is the greatest way to preach to gospel to Jews, because it is their scripture as well. Isaiah points to Jesus, whether we think so, or whether the jews think so, or not. They don't believe that Jesus is the messiah, so of course they don't think that Isaiah points to Jesus. This is not difficult to figure out... Edited to add: Why would we use their flawed view of scripture to prove a point?? You could also ask why would trinitarians use the Catholic Church's flawed view of scripture to prove a point??
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horror
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Pedophilia is a mental disorder you take to the grave (they involves children &non human victims)
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Post by horror on Feb 3, 2016 17:36:41 GMT -5
From WEB, NETBIBLE.omnipotence. classic.net.bible.org/lexicon.php?word=omnipotence .
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gells
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Post by gells on Feb 3, 2016 17:49:43 GMT -5
I don't use the Catholics flawed view. I use scripture. I always go back to scripture. That's where I find my information. You showed how the Jewish interpretation of the verse didn't match up with mine, specifically mentioning a group of people that denies Christ in every way. I never mentioned, "Oh well the Catholics say it this way, therefore I must be right." I've never trusted Catholic resources in my life, I will not be starting now!! Just because I disagree with almost every facet of their worship and their traditions, doesn't mean they got every single little thing wrong. I could ask the same of you, why do you use Mormon's flawed view of scripture, or the Jehovah's witnesses? They use many of the same arguments, but we all know that they are both false churches. And I shall not say that you are using their theology, only because you never tried to use them to support your argument. (You did try to use the Jews to support your answer.)
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