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Post by maryhig on Nov 22, 2015 4:31:31 GMT -5
There isn't anyone more knowledgeable than God himself. So if he's in the heart of his people, the highest college degree won't be important and won't give you understanding, a college qualification isn't what God is looking for, it's a humble soft heart, and if people have the holy spirit then they are more learned than all scholars who are trained in bible school, if they don't know God. God will give wisdom and understanding to his people, and we receive it through Christ by the spirit. Matthew 11 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him But regardless, plain and simply Jesus came and taught us how to live. So now he's been and lived it out and taught us, we have no excuse. He's showed us and told us what we have to do. And people have the choice of whether to listen to him or not. So --- God talks to you. Does that make me a liar? I know all that Bible stuff. I was just telling y'all how the world turns, whether God likes it or not. God gives his people understanding, why is what I say making you a liar? You might know all that bible stuff, but I can tell by the disgusting cartoons you have put in the humour thread in the past that you don't know God!
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Post by maryhig on Nov 22, 2015 4:31:51 GMT -5
I think Jesus quite clearly tells us a man shouldn't have many wives. But one wife and one husband. And that they should become one flesh. That doesn't sound like a man can be married to 4 or 5 wives at the same time! He also said that Moses gave the bill of divorcement because of the hardness of their hearts. But from the beginning it wasn't so. So from the beginning God said one man, one woman one flesh! I know you think. I happen to know something YOU don't think. You don't know God! If you did, you wouldn't say the things you do!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 4:39:58 GMT -5
I grew up in a professing home but stopped going to meetings a long time ago. I wrote the following for a college class and would like anybody who is interested to please give your opinion. Thank you! Why has religion and our church condemned homosexuals? The Bible tells us so, right? I have believed the same thing all my life too, believing what my church (The Truth), the workers and the Bible had told me. Growing up in rural Minnesota to good parents, trying to do the right thing and knowing since my earliest memory that I was gay, I have struggled to reconcile my gayness with God’s word. Among the many reasons the Christian Church, whether intentionally or unintentionally, has condemned their gay and lesbian members are 6 passages in the Bible that traditionally have been quoted as the Bible’s, thus God’s, view on homosexuality........... A good post. I have to confess that I never fail to be bemused when I read of what God is supposed to think about certain sexual acts or how God is supposed to view certain sexual matters, such as homosexuality. The idea that anyone has an insight into the thinking of a God whom they have never seen (in a visual sense) or heard speak (in an audible sense) is, to me, absurd. Of course it is perfectly acceptable to state what the bible says regarding certain sexual acts or indeed what ones interpretation is of what the bible says about certain sexual acts, but to attribute to a living 21st century God the ancient and often prejudiced views of the biblical authors on sexual matters makes no sense to me whatsoever. For all we know God, who made man (including men like Gene) in his own image, could be a homosexual. For all we know Adam whom God made could have been a homosexual. He certainly wasn't a heterosexual to begin with. Heterosexuality was something new which he embraced later in adulthood. For all we know Jesus could also have been a homosexual. We know that it was extremely odd for a man in those days not to have a wife and we do know that he had a habit of letting young men whom he loved rest on his bosom. This is definitely not something that I as a heterosexual man am prone to doing. Then there is also the hidden history of what Jesus was getting up to for those 18 testosterone filled years between the ages of 12 and 30 when most young men are taking wives and/or dating girls. I expect that in those days (as was the case in the UK prior to 1967 when homosexuality was illegal) most homosexuals would have kept the nature of sex lives carefully hidden. I'm quite sure that no one would ever wish to risk a stoning. And of course there is also the unhealthy interest that Jesus clearly had in all those strong, healthy, young fishermen. And finally there is that bizarre incident with that young man who followed Jesus around wearing nothing but a linen garment and was later spotted running away naked. This is not (at least not in my experience) the type of incident that tends to happen frequently to heterosexual men. Who knows. It hardly matters one way or another. I think it is safe to say that we have no idea whatsoever as to what God thinks of homosexuality. However what we do know is that people have a tendency (often inadvertently and with no malice whatsoever) to attribute to God their own views and prejudices, and then using (what they ascribe as) God's views as the basis of supporting their own views. I think it's better to ignore such views and rather to take the view that God really doesn't give a hoot what you get up to in the bedroom (or with whom you get up to 'it' with) providing it involves only consenting adults and that no abuse takes place nor the taking advantage of vulnerable people. Matt10
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 22, 2015 5:30:40 GMT -5
Wally, what you mean is that it lines up with a 2000+ year OLD scripture, -a piece of literature of why things supposedly happened 2000years ago & how people were supposed to have to live their lives then.
Do you believe that you should also use that same 2000+ year OLD literature as a guide as to how you live your life today?
In other words, - do you also believe that you can have as many wives as you want, (with concubines thrown in for good measure,) and kill your disobedient child if you so desire?
Also, that you should "not allow a witch to live?"
Also that you should NOT give your ill child or yourself antibiotics because, after all, -they aren't mentioned in that 2000+ years OLD scripture. I already answered some of these from your other post...your repeating yourself Yeh, I know that I'm repeating myself but when you have something really good to say, it needs repeating!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 5:45:02 GMT -5
Dmmichgood, you would notice (no?) that in judging the bible, some look to its harsher Judaic elements - but Jesus, as the founder of Christianity, did none of these things, and the same people ignore Him. That tells me people don't really oppose the "OT God" for harshness but because they hate God's moral universe. In short, they hate God not because of His supposed cruelty, but because of His righteousness.
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Post by Gene on Nov 22, 2015 9:26:51 GMT -5
live a celibate single life, serve the Lord, other people have done it... How well would you do with that requirement? There's no question it can be done. Lots of people live celibate lives. Take the workers, for example.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 12:15:13 GMT -5
i'm doing it now never been happier... That's not what I asked. Pretend you're 20 again and think about it, if you remember how it used to be. it would be tough but it can be done...
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Post by jondough on Nov 22, 2015 13:09:52 GMT -5
Nathan,
I'm not arguing on way or another, only want to point out that your arguement that God created Adam and Eve as heterosexual is irrelevant. Who created the men and women that were born gay? I'm pretty sure that most people, even the homophobic now acknowledge that a most gay people are born that way - not by choice.
Did God not also create them?
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Post by openingact34 on Nov 22, 2015 14:16:29 GMT -5
Hello minnesota ' When there are people on this site who have hissy fits over people diluting the bible's directives when converting wine to grape juice; they will surely refuse to adopt a laid-back interpretation of the many verses which definitively express condemnation of certain sexual preferences and activities, including homosexuality. I noted that outburst as well. "HOW DARE THEY" Interestingly, Despite all the other issues, I've never heard a worker rail against homosexuality or almost any other topic in the same way as the evangelicals and evangelical ex 2x2s who have received the "Gospel of Grace". I'm not quite sure what it is, but there seems to be something fundamental about that message or thought process that incites an especially deep anger and intolerance. To claim that Christianity is tolerant, or that "Jesus said let he who is without sin...." is surely burying ones head in the sand. Three US Republican Presidential candidates joined Kevin Swanson on stage at his "National Religious Liberties Conference." Have a listen to Pastor Kevin. Or consider the Christian Reconstructionists, who laud the imposition of death penalties for lobbying for a whole host of things including adultery, witchcraft, apostasy, idolatry. Unable to do it in the West, they are spreading hate in Africa. This is what the words of the Bible are inspiring today.
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Post by xna on Nov 22, 2015 15:06:14 GMT -5
You gotta love some of those preachers.
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Post by magpie on Nov 22, 2015 16:29:27 GMT -5
Hi Jondough,, Agree with you this time. Sadly the Western World have these sleazy parades making a delicate private subject dirty. I know people born as such and all these Rainbow's are doing is hurting and embaracing the decent people.As being born with other genetic faults Down Syndrome and sadly the that terrible affliction of uncurable uncontrolable paedophilia,that often includes beastiality as well as preening and preying on little children victims. Yes all decendants of the original creator.
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Post by SharonArnold on Nov 22, 2015 16:54:14 GMT -5
Hello minnesota ' When there are people on this site who have hissy fits over people diluting the bible's directives when converting wine to grape juice; they will surely refuse to adopt a laid-back interpretation of the many verses which definitively express condemnation of certain sexual preferences and activities, including homosexuality. I noted that outburst as well. "HOW DARE THEY" Interestingly, Despite all the other issues, I've never heard a worker rail against homosexuality or almost any other topic in the same way as the evangelicals and evangelical ex 2x2s who have received the "Gospel of Grace". I'm not quite sure what it is, but there seems to be something fundamental about that message or thought process that incites an especially deep anger and intolerance. To claim that Christianity is tolerant, or that "Jesus said let he who is without sin...." is surely burying ones head in the sand. Three US Republican Presidential candidates joined Kevin Swanson on stage at his "National Religious Liberties Conference." Have a listen to Pastor Kevin. Or consider the Christian Reconstructionists, who laud the imposition of death penalties for lobbying for a whole host of things including adultery, witchcraft, apostasy, idolatry. Unable to do it in the West, they are spreading hate in Africa This is what the words of the Bible are inspiring today. OMG Do I ever lead a sheltered life! My acquaintance with the far right encompasses the occasional encounter with the Duggars in media coverage. These guys are absolutely, certifiably, insane. If this is what Christianity stands for, then it is way past time to kick it to the curb. But, then, I remember the Sermon on the Mount. And I am a believer. I have been following, with interest, the #Not in my name stuff. Perhaps Christians need to be doing their own version of this.
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Post by SharonArnold on Nov 22, 2015 17:21:19 GMT -5
How well would you do with that requirement? There's no question it can be done. Lots of people live celibate lives. Take the workers, for example. This is true. And I do believe that the vast majority of workers do live celibate lives. Some have the personality that is suited to this. Images come to my mind of workers who spent a week+ in my home and used a small hand towel and 60 second showers the whole time they were there. (Not sure how this is connected, but somehow, it is.). Some do not intrinsically have this type of personality, but still manage to live a celibate life. I don't think there is a particular virtue, whether they do or they don't. Where my judgment comes in is if they present themselves one way, but live a completely different way. Gene, you seem, to me, an uncommonly together person. In a weird way, this helps make me a believer - in the power and the triumph of the human spirit, against all odds. I have sat behind families in convention, gospel meetings, and funerals where I would put any money on the father of the family being conscripted to a lifestyle that was, intrinsically, not his. And the mother of the family wondering "What is wrong with me?" And the kid(s) going "What the hell?" (The price was too high.)
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 22, 2015 18:30:34 GMT -5
Nathan, I'm not arguing on way or another, only want to point out that your arguement that God created Adam and Eve as heterosexual is irrelevant. Who created the men and women that were born gay? I believe Satan and the fallen angels have been tempering/mixing God's heterosexual genetic codes and turned them into homo and lesbians people, having sex acts among their own kind instead what God had created from the beginning a man/Adam had intercourse with a woman/Eve. Some higher intelligent beings made them having desire of the same sex acts, this wasn't the Will of God.Satan, 1/3 of the fallen angels tempering with the human genetic codes... The Nephilim/demigods/giants, bigfoots, homosexual and lesbians having sex with their own sex, Bi-sexual, people desire having sex with children, having sex with animals, etc.....www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6j2K9tOBXQI'm pretty sure that most people, even the homophobic now acknowledge that a most gay people are born that way - not by choice. Did God not also create them? No, God did NOT create gay or lesbians but heterosexual beings to procreate the earth. God did NOT create the Nephilim/demigods on the earth, if He/they did he wouldn't have flood the earth to destroy them in the days of Noah. When Jesus returns the 2nd time to judge and punish all of them who are NOT Christ-like spirits.
Jude 1:14-15 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. nathan, can you prove God didn't create gay people ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 18:41:36 GMT -5
God created gay people But to spend your whole life wearing a monogrammed t-shirt which states "God made me do it" is a monumental cop-out.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 22, 2015 19:23:52 GMT -5
So --- God talks to you. Does that make me a liar? I know all that Bible stuff. I was just telling y'all how the world turns, whether God likes it or not. God gives his people understanding, why is what I say making you a liar? You might know all that bible stuff, but I can tell by the disgusting cartoons you have put in the humour thread in the past that you don't know God! You take yourself far too seriously. Just because something is not explained in the Bible doesn't mean it was not so. There's no mention of China in the Bible -- but somehow Christians can believe what ancient Chinese wrote about themselves. Why is it that Christians think everything there is to know about ancient Hebrews is ALL in the Bible? Just because I know something about ancient Israel that you don't know about doesn't make anything I ever said wrong, so I consider such platitudes to the contrary to be an accusation of lying. Either that's your problem with me, or you think all the ancient Hebrew scholars were liars -- except for the few who wrote the conflicting stories in the OT. What about all the virgins who were given to the Israelites for the taking -- God didn't order them given to single men. So did they marry them, or just commit adultery or fornication with them? Sooner or later some things just have to add up. Otherwise the Bible can't be anything more than a fairy tale.
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Post by xna on Nov 22, 2015 19:49:30 GMT -5
nathan, can you prove God didn't create gay people ? The Bible tells us God created Adam and Eve in His/their image. Adam wasn't a homosexual and Eve wasn't a lesbian, they weren't gay when He created them in the Garden of Eden. God/Elohim said Gen. 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”But what about the Youtube evidence?
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Post by joanna on Nov 22, 2015 19:49:52 GMT -5
openingact34 and xna those videos are something else. Maybe these preachers are frustrated actors (or mad). The natural instinct is to laugh at their antics but their content is really not funny,
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Post by xna on Nov 22, 2015 19:59:04 GMT -5
openingact34 and xna those videos are something else. Maybe these preachers are frustrated actors (or mad). The natural instinct is to laugh at their antics but their content is really not funny, Not funny, but their over the top sermons show how ridiculous their ideas are. It's hard to imagine people today can agree with them. Why should they care if someone is gay or not? The only reason that I see anyone would think being gay is a choice is because of what the bible says. From what I have read it's more difficult to come out as an atheist than to come out as gay. Who knows?
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 22, 2015 20:01:00 GMT -5
Hi Jondough,, Agree with you this time. Sadly the Western World have these sleazy parades making a delicate private subject dirty. I know people born as such and all these Rainbow's are doing is hurting and embaracing the decent people.As being born with other genetic faults Down Syndrome and sadly the that terrible affliction of uncurable uncontrolable paedophilia,that often includes beastiality as well as preening and preying on little children victims. Yes all decendants of the original creator. magpie, I don't understand why you feel that the "Western World having parades are "sleazy."
Are you talking about "gay pride" (rainbow) parades? How do they hurt people? Do you mean that the people in those parades are NOT decent people?
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Post by jj on Nov 22, 2015 20:10:31 GMT -5
How well would you do with that requirement? There's no question it can be done. Lots of people live celibate lives. Take the workers, for example. Also easily done if you're asexual (don't experience sexual attraction to any gender)
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Post by rational on Nov 22, 2015 20:16:26 GMT -5
The unatural? Paedophiles lust for children and animals. Do you have support for this claim? Have any of the offenders that have been convicted or accused been pedophiles? Or you just using that term out of ignorance?Do you have any information to support this claim? If there was even a hint of truth in your claim the rate of CSA in these institutions would be much higher than in the general population. Research shows that is not the case.
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Post by rational on Nov 22, 2015 20:23:09 GMT -5
I know people born as such and all these Rainbow's are doing is hurting and embaracing the decent people. As are people who say and post unsupported claims.Bestiality? Do you just make this up as you go?
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Post by joanna on Nov 22, 2015 20:30:11 GMT -5
I have to agree with magpie, dmmichgood. The behavior of some of those participants in the gay mardi gras' is unnecessary. I cannot understand how the flashes of (what I consider to be) obscene displays, as shown on the news, advance their cause. I have discussed this with my children and they agree with your view- "what harm does this do?" > I believe there are standards which need to be upheld. Though these differ depending on cultures ie clothing in some cultures is intended to cover up areas which are displayed in other cultures; but when people are out in public with little clothing in cultures which do deem nudity unacceptable, and are engaging in what would appear to verge on pornographic displays; it just seems that 'anything goes'. The term 'modesty' is one which seems destined for 'the dead word pile', I personally believe it has merit. Another source of disagreement with my offspring is the need for young women (especially young!) to dress modestly (mine do but stand up for those who choose not to). Feminists are encouraging women to wear as little as they want because the 'she turned me on' excuse for rape is not valid. Whilst i agree with this, it just seems sensible to apply risk management as who knows how deviants will respond to scantily clad women, especially walking alone. Sex is used to sell products, books, concepts and now lifestyles. My view can easily be dismissed with the 'old-fashioned' tag but this openness just appears to have contributed to greater confusion and angst in regard to the negative implications of humans' sexual interactions: unwanted pregnancies; quick turnover of partnerships; one-night stands etc Children are exposed to "sex" from too early an age and the term 'childhood innocence' seems to have already been tossed on the dead word pile.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 22, 2015 20:37:33 GMT -5
That all depends. What would you accept as proof? Just show me some, proof from Old and New Testament where God/Bible has changed his mind on homosexuality sexual acts are OK with Him/them then and now... I will decide for myself... Give me three examples, please... can you or can't you?Yes, I can. But the problem is, you wouldn't accept it as proof. You'd only go off on a wild tangent about something else, which I'm not interested in following.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 20:51:16 GMT -5
Just show me some, proof from Old and New Testament where God/Bible has changed his mind on homosexuality sexual acts are OK with Him/them then and now... I will decide for myself... Give me three examples, please... can you or can't you?Yes, I can. But the problem is, you wouldn't accept it as proof. You'd only go off on a wild tangent about something else, which I'm not interested in following. this sounds suspiciously like the old kindergarten sing song phrase "i know something you don't know" what is it the old Johnathan got naked in front of david thing again?
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 22, 2015 20:56:01 GMT -5
I have to agree with magpie, dmmichgood. The behavior of some of those participants in the gay mardi gras' is unnecessary. I cannot understand how the flashes of (what I consider to be) obscene displays, as shown on the news, advance their cause. I have discussed this with my children and they agree with your view- "what harm does this do?" > I believe there are standards which need to be upheld. Though these differ depending on cultures ie clothing in some cultures is intended to cover up areas which are displayed in other cultures; but when people are out in public with little clothing in cultures which do deem nudity unacceptable, and are engaging in what would appear to verge on pornographic displays; it just seems that 'anything goes'. The term 'modesty' is one which seems destined for 'the dead word pile', I personally believe it has merit. Another source of disagreement with my offspring is the need for young women (especially young!) to dress modestly (mine do but stand up for those who choose not to). Feminists are encouraging women to wear as little as they want because the 'she turned me on' excuse for rape is not valid. Whilst i agree with this, it just seems sensible to apply risk management as who knows how deviants will respond to scantily clad women, especially walking alone. Sex is used to sell products, books, concepts and now lifestyles. My view can easily be dismissed with the 'old-fashioned' tag but this openness just appears to have contributed to greater confusion and angst in regard to the negative implications of humans' sexual interactions: unwanted pregnancies; quick turnover of partnerships; one-night stands etc Children are exposed to "sex" from too early an age and the term 'childhood innocence' seems to have already been tossed on the dead word pile. Sex has been a preoccupation among human beings since the beginning of time. Sex was primitive people's concept of a relationship with eternal life -- they would live forever through their offspring. But I shan't deliver a sermon on Goddess spirituality at this time. Our Western sense of modesty (for women, mostly) comes from the likes of Saint Augustine who abhorred both sex and women, but had the power to entrench his beliefs in Christian society. I expect the resulting sexual prudishness, especially of many deeply religious people, overshadows any real understanding of human sexuality. I don't think we will escape this situation until we have eliminated the notion that a scantily clad young female is what causes rapists to act. Millenia of civilizations have been able to distinguish nudity from pornography. Unfortunately, David's penis ended up in a vault in the Vatican.
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Post by matisse on Nov 22, 2015 21:20:15 GMT -5
I have to agree with magpie, dmmichgood. The behavior of some of those participants in the gay mardi gras' is unnecessary. I cannot understand how the flashes of (what I consider to be) obscene displays, as shown on the news, advance their cause. I have discussed this with my children and they agree with your view- "what harm does this do?" > I believe there are standards which need to be upheld. Though these differ depending on cultures ie clothing in some cultures is intended to cover up areas which are displayed in other cultures; but when people are out in public with little clothing in cultures which do deem nudity unacceptable, and are engaging in what would appear to verge on pornographic displays; it just seems that 'anything goes'. The term 'modesty' is one which seems destined for 'the dead word pile', I personally believe it has merit. Another source of disagreement with my offspring is the need for young women (especially young!) to dress modestly (mine do but stand up for those who choose not to). Feminists are encouraging women to wear as little as they want because the 'she turned me on' excuse for rape is not valid. Whilst i agree with this, it just seems sensible to apply risk management as who knows how deviants will respond to scantily clad women, especially walking alone. Sex is used to sell products, books, concepts and now lifestyles. My view can easily be dismissed with the 'old-fashioned' tag but this openness just appears to have contributed to greater confusion and angst in regard to the negative implications of humans' sexual interactions: unwanted pregnancies; quick turnover of partnerships; one-night stands etc Children are exposed to "sex" from too early an age and the term 'childhood innocence' seems to have already been tossed on the dead word pile. I have attended a number of Gay Pride events over the years. The most provocative footage is what ends up on the evening news. Pride Week in the city I live in usually has numerous family-friendly events, including the parade.
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