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Post by howitis on Aug 29, 2015 0:23:22 GMT -5
Of course withlove, but unless you're a deceptive shepherd you need not worry at all! :-)
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Post by withlove on Aug 29, 2015 0:33:07 GMT -5
Of course withlove, but unless you're a deceptive shepherd you need not worry at all! :-) I agree...I prefer the word "concerned"...it's not in me to forget or ignore victims. I don't let it distress me too much anymore, because that is too much of a burden to take on. We can do what we can and leave the rest to God and other authorities. I don't want to miss the doing what I can part, whether that is speaking the truth to people or interceding to heaven.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 29, 2015 0:34:31 GMT -5
I don't know who or where. But I keep reading this on facebook. My facebook friends rejoice to see new servants. OK did they know 2 brothers left MI last year? Or Florida lost a worker? I wonder how long these baby workers last? Actually two workers left Florida last year and married each other. Went back to their home state of Wisconsin and now have an open home for others. They gave the best 15 year of their life. A wonderful sacrifice I think. Was that two male workers or two female workers left and got married or a male and a female left and got married?
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Post by howitis on Aug 29, 2015 1:33:24 GMT -5
withlove, God is no man's debtor he well and truly looks after the 'victims'.....I can personally testify to this :-)
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Post by withlove on Aug 29, 2015 1:42:50 GMT -5
withlove, God is no man's debtor he well and truly looks after the 'victims'.....I can personally testify to this :-) Even if you meant victims, and not "victims," that doesn't excuse me from doing what I can. God wants doers. He enables and encourages us to act. But I do understand what you mean by your quotation marks.
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Post by howitis on Aug 29, 2015 7:22:29 GMT -5
Yes I feel it is important to be doing too withlove, be careful though some on here think your trying to save yourself by works when you say things like that. Stories Mary have been used for years they have purposes some have lessons, some to make us laugh, some have morals, some make us weep, so what happens story tellers, perpetrators? The same that happens kings, queens, judges, doctors, thieves, murderers, nurses, .....you and I.....we will be remembered here on earth by what we have done and judged likewise in Heaven!! Thanks be to God!!!!
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Post by christiansburg on Aug 29, 2015 7:40:41 GMT -5
My feeling about the best 15 years is this. They were in the work from ages 20 to almost 35. They were young and could have been seeking the best for themselves like most young people would do. But no, they didn't do that because they sought the interest of the kingdom and put that first. That is the best choice anyone can make. What they would have been as older workers is unknown but certainly there will be good days ahead for them. I became a parent at age 31 and I know you are right that a person has not idea of what it is like to become a parent and the joy it brings to see the birth of your children. I witnessed my wife deliver three children and that was a wonderful experience for us both. The first eight year of my adult life were spent in the work. So I know both sides of this story. I can appreciate you have a perspective of being on both sides, but to state being a worker is the "best choice a person can make" seems to present a rather superior attitude. If you are a believer, I would think you believe the best choice a person can make is the choice for salvation. Also, many people put God's Kingdom first-they may not be called into the work by God-doesn't mean they are doing less than the best in the eyes of God, nor would I judge them in that regard. You do not have to be a worker to 'seek the interest of the kingdom'.There are some people who were in the work,but left it, perhaps because they were unhappy-I would imagine there are many reasons a person leaves the Work-maybe not all those years were the best ones or they would have stayed in. There are probably some non workers who put God first moreso than some workers. The Lord knows who is giving their best. I still prefer to have the attitude that the best is yet to come...hey, it's a positive outlook. You have a good attitude and that will help you no doubt.
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Post by christiansburg on Aug 29, 2015 7:44:05 GMT -5
Actually two workers left Florida last year and married each other. Went back to their home state of Wisconsin and now have an open home for others. They gave the best 15 year of their life. A wonderful sacrifice I think. Was that two male workers or two female workers left and got married or a male and a female left and got married? Well,thanks for asking. It was a male and a female. I believe in traditional marriage and never thought about clarifying that. I do know that in this day and time a number of people here have redefined the meaning of marriage.
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Post by jondough on Aug 29, 2015 9:26:36 GMT -5
Bitterbetty,
You and I are getting different messages from Christensburg post;
I'm getting that he meant exactly as you stated....Its a good thing when we put the kingdom first...whatever that may mean for ourselves personally....for Workers that felt called, they went, because they were "putting the Kingdom first".
Also, in regards to his mentioning "best years of their life". Ofter we refer to our 20's and 30's - when we are younger as "the best years of our life". I think this is what he meant, not that being in the work made it their best years. Again, they were willing to give up their younger years in the work doing God's will, not their own.
Anyway...thats the message I got from his post.
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Post by matisse on Aug 29, 2015 9:38:09 GMT -5
Was that two male workers or two female workers left and got married or a male and a female left and got married? Well,thanks for asking. It was a male and a female. I believe in traditional marriage and never thought about clarifying that. I do know that in this day and time a number of people here have redefined the meaning of marriage. "Traditional marriage" as practiced in the OT? Women as property, men with concubines, taking young girls as spoils of war, etc.? ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 10:56:56 GMT -5
Several offer for the work. But the number of deceased, unable for the work/resting or workers who leave is a bigger issue. The problem is retention. And you have some workers who don't want responsibility. It is a real problem to find overseer replacements. They would struggle to find a replacement for Irving Ross, Jerome Frandle, Albert Knaggs, George Lee, Jim Price, or any of the others.
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Post by christiansburg on Aug 29, 2015 13:16:57 GMT -5
Well,thanks for asking. It was a male and a female. I believe in traditional marriage and never thought about clarifying that. I do know that in this day and time a number of people here have redefined the meaning of marriage. "Traditional marriage" as practiced in the OT? Women as property, men with concubines, taking young girls as spoils of war, etc.? ;-) You know what I mean when I say traditional marriage. Why wander off into the ditch with these ridiculous comments. You are making no sense. Everything you said in sentence 2 is just asking for an argument so have fun and argue with yourself.
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Post by matisse on Aug 29, 2015 13:32:24 GMT -5
"Traditional marriage" as practiced in the OT? Women as property, men with concubines, taking young girls as spoils of war, etc.? ;-) You know what I mean when I say traditional marriage. Why wander off into the ditch with these ridiculous comments. You are making no sense. Everything you said in sentence 2 is just asking for an argument so have fun and argue with yourself. Some people act as if marriage has remained unchanged until now. This is simply not true, and I will tend to remind folks of it every time. I am surprised you would refer to the Old Testament as a ditch.
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Post by christiansburg on Aug 29, 2015 13:41:50 GMT -5
You know what I mean when I say traditional marriage. Why wander off into the ditch with these ridiculous comments. You are making no sense. Everything you said in sentence 2 is just asking for an argument so have fun and argue with yourself. Some people act as if marriage has remained unchanged until now. This is simply not true, and I will tend to remind folks of it every time. I am surprised you would refer to the Old Testament as a ditch. Didn't refer to the OT as a ditch but the way you referred to traditional is taking the idea of marriage into the ditch. Again you know/knew what I meant.
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Post by matisse on Aug 29, 2015 14:19:30 GMT -5
Some people act as if marriage has remained unchanged until now. This is simply not true, and I will tend to remind folks of it every time. I am surprised you would refer to the Old Testament as a ditch. Didn't refer to the OT as a ditch but the way you referred to traditional is taking the idea of marriage into the ditch. Again you know/knew what I meant. I think "Traditionalists" who complain about change need to be reminded of the history of marriage. It isn't pretty. That's all!
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Post by bitterbetty on Aug 29, 2015 16:04:59 GMT -5
Bitterbetty, You and I are getting different messages from Christensburg post; I'm getting that he meant exactly as you stated....Its a good thing when we put the kingdom first...whatever that may mean for ourselves personally....for Workers that felt called, they went, because they were "putting the Kingdom first". Also, in regards to his mentioning "best years of their life". Ofter we refer to our 20's and 30's - when we are younger as "the best years of our life". I think this is what he meant, not that being in the work made it their best years. Again, they were willing to give up their younger years in the work doing God's will, not their own. Anyway...thats the message I got from his post. Thanks for that JD. I guess I cannot disagree, if that is how a person feels about what is considered the 'best years of their life'... We differ in that regard. Age 20's-30's: were those the best years of my life? I cannot rightly say because the 'best' may be yet to come. Those were all good years; some of them great years- but after age 35, when I started writing great songs I was pleasantly surprised at what a wonderful turn my life had taken at a time when I least expected it...It's all good, in a way and you just go forward. To categorize a certain age range as the 'best years' is not in my vocabulary. Also, a person can do God's will and not their own even if they are NOT in the work. Is the work the ultimate sacrifice for the Lord? What would Jesus say on that matter? He said to deny ourselves, take up our Cross and follow Him. Denying yourself can take on many forms...there are plenty of people who never go into the work, but between the ages of 20-35 are doing many things on a regular basis to 'deny their self'. This is just another way to look at things, I suppose. This is likely a different topic, but I will share it here anyway:One problem I see with the friends and workers is that there is this mentality that being in the work is a superior way to live your life. Well, I would put forth that being in God's Will IS the best way to be if for nothing else than it brings peace, not because it is a sacrifice. The Sacrifice has been made by Christ. Any other sacrifice that follows pales in comparison. But friends and workers alike love to point to the sacrifice of the workers. This in my view is a dangerous mindset as it points to the workers instead of Christ.
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Post by bitterbetty on Aug 29, 2015 16:21:38 GMT -5
Guess what Nathan-my walk as a child of God has "given me an understanding of Jesus and the apostles work of joy, blessings, which bring many souls to Christ through the gospel."-And I've never been a worker!. My point is you do not have to be a worker to experience these things and have a good understanding. Let me clarify what I meant... Before I was in the work I read my Bible but I had little understand of the apostles life was all about. After I entered the work I had clearer understanding of how they felt and the mission work they had. I wouldn't be able to understand it if I hadn't been in the work.
If you hadn't been a worker yourself you wouldn't be able to understand fully or enter in the apostles/workers life and mission work from first hand experience.
You really don't fully understand someone's experience UNTIL you walk in their shoes.
I agree with you that you and I have the same joy, blessings when we help someone comes to Jesus whether you were a work or NOT.
Oh, I understand 'mission work' better than you could ever imagine, Nate-and yes, from first hand experience. And yes, you are right that you don't fully understand someone else's experience UNTIL you walk in their shoes. Couldn't agree more....-But, that goes both ways. You do not have to be a worker to serve a mission. You do not have to be a worker to minister to others. You do have be a worker to develop a good understanding of denying yourself, putting God first and spreading the Good News. We all have access to Scripture and the Holy Spirit to teach us all things: that's my faith and my belief. We can all be divinely inspired and called by God for 'missions' and missionary-type work. Teaching, healing, etc.-many of the same things the apostles did. In fact I would say that there are likely many non-workers or folks who have NEVER been in the work who doing similar things as to what the apostles did-so perhaps they have a better 'understanding' than you are aware. I wouldn't assume that someone has little understanding of the apostles just because they have never been in the work. That is very limiting, in my regard. Limiting the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was promised to ALL believers and part of the Holy Spirit's function is to teach all things, to help believers know all things; to bring understanding.
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Post by Mary on Aug 29, 2015 16:31:21 GMT -5
Life begins @ 40, or so they say.
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Post by bitterbetty on Aug 29, 2015 16:40:01 GMT -5
Life begins @ 40, or so they say. .....or 50, or 60...who knows....
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Post by bitterbetty on Aug 29, 2015 17:02:33 GMT -5
So, I will expound a bit more on this concept of 'making a sacrifice'. I've come to believe by reading Scripture and just living life that God grew very weary of the sacrifices humans made. He grew very weary of it. There was and is a much better way and it's all about the ultimate sacrifice Christ paid to redeem souls that in the eyes of the Lord are simply: priceless. Each soul is priceless in the eye's of God. Doesn't matter what you walk in life has been, the worth of the soul cannot really be comprehended by us mere mortals. We are still learning...when I think of a person feeling as though they have 'sacrificed' oh so much, I almost start to cringe. Want to know why? When we serve God in joy it shouldn't FEEL like a sacrifice - or maybe, as believers we shouldn't be thinking so much about our own sacrifices as much as that which has been sacrificed FOR us. To focus on our own personal sacrifices is really a rather selfish was to view it, isn't it? And the best years of our life are ALL the years that the Lord would so choose to grant us. He gives life, He can take it away. Each new day is a blessing; a gift; an opportunity, regardless of your age. That's just my attitude. I don't want to come across as superior or that I have some sort of special revelation, but I HAVE been through a lot, seen a lot, experienced a lot-I've lived through some pretty harrowing experiences and many folks have told me they could not do what I have done. Does that make a super saint-no. Does it mean I have given my best years of life to the Lord. Don't know. The best may be yet to come. We do not know what kinds of things we will face in the future. We might face some mighty mighty challenging times ahead; times when we feel we are faced with more than we can bear even; times when we feel we must make a personal sacrifice....BUT, I've sort of dropped the mindset that I am making a 'sacrifice' per se--instead to just have a joy and peace and gratitude as the prevailing essence.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Aug 29, 2015 18:14:20 GMT -5
I enjoy the following verses-they have caused me to meditate on the various types of sacrifices a person could make and/or the nature of sacrifice.
Hebrews 13:vs 15-By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. - [So then, is being grateful/showing your gratitude considered a 'sacrifice'? Hmmmm. Maybe...Is praising God a 'sacrifice'. I've not traditionally thought of it that way, but this verse seems to indicate otherwise.]
16-But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
So then: is a pleasing sacrifice about what you can give of yourself (to and for God)or is it more along the lines of how you RESPOND to what God has given YOU and what Christ did FOR US? Does it have MORE to do with HOW you receive that which God has imparted? This is just food for thought, as I don't know all the answers. It is certainly worth pondering, I think, because when folks try to COMPREHEND what all it means to 'serve God', they may wonder just what all they could possible DO that would be 'worthy'. Yeah, people tend to wish to be worthy and so they strive to be that way...
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Aug 29, 2015 18:34:45 GMT -5
And, here's more: Psalm 107 vs22: And let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving, and declare his works with rejoicing.
Mark 12vs33- And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. (Wow, that's powerful!)
So, is this saying that loving God with your all ( and loving your neighbor as yourself ) are essentially above and beyond any 'sacrifice' we could possibly imagine?
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Post by christiansburg on Aug 29, 2015 18:51:56 GMT -5
Life begins @ 40, or so they say. .....or 50, or 60...who knows.... I like the definition my mother gave about "life begins at 40" She said it begins to fall apart. That may be true for some but maybe not all. I always chuckled when she said that because for her it was true.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Aug 29, 2015 19:06:16 GMT -5
Life begins @ 40, or so they say. hmmm. Life begins...how about right NOW!
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Aug 29, 2015 19:19:12 GMT -5
.....or 50, or 60...who knows.... I like the definition my mother gave about "life begins at 40" She said it begins to fall apart. That may be true for some but maybe not all. I always chuckled when she said that because for her it was true. wow. That seems like a bleak way to look at life. But, like you say, that is how it was for her....I've heard many folks say that it gets harder the older we get and indeed, I think we all have days that we can feel that way...BUT, I have to say, I know so many people who have said the opposite is true: Many things in life get sweeter as time goes by and as life happens and new opportunities come along they continue to be pleasantly surprised. My parents had a wonderful mindset about the opportunities of life as they got older. And, maybe that is because they had some very HARD years when they were younger. They really STRUGGLED at times in their 20's. But, as life went on they were able to put some of the struggles of their past behind them. I am glad it turned out that way for them and really appreciated their positive outlook on life ahead...It's true that the 'vigor' of youth is a wonderful thing-but I've noticed there are some older folks who are more 'vigorous' than people a couple of decades younger than they are. Those kinds of people really inspire me. Also, when people get older, sometimes they drop some of the needless burdens they hung on to when they were young and some of 'things' that were oh so important then no longer matter...Thank you for sharing, christianburg- I appreciate your perspective!
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Post by jondough on Aug 29, 2015 19:24:52 GMT -5
Bitterbetty, You and I are getting different messages from Christensburg post; I'm getting that he meant exactly as you stated....Its a good thing when we put the kingdom first...whatever that may mean for ourselves personally....for Workers that felt called, they went, because they were "putting the Kingdom first". Also, in regards to his mentioning "best years of their life". Ofter we refer to our 20's and 30's - when we are younger as "the best years of our life". I think this is what he meant, not that being in the work made it their best years. Again, they were willing to give up their younger years in the work doing God's will, not their own. Anyway...thats the message I got from his post. Thanks for that JD. I guess I cannot disagree, if that is how a person feels about what is considered the 'best years of their life'... We differ in that regard. Age 20's-30's: were those the best years of my life? I cannot rightly say because the 'best' may be yet to come. Those were all good years; some of them great years- but after age 35, when I started writing great songs I was pleasantly surprised at what a wonderful turn my life had taken at a time when I least expected it...It's all good, in a way and you just go forward. To categorize a certain age range as the 'best years' is not in my vocabulary. Also, a person can do God's will and not their own even if they are NOT in the work. Is the work the ultimate sacrifice for the Lord? What would Jesus say on that matter? He said to deny ourselves, take up our Cross and follow Him. Denying yourself can take on many forms...there are plenty of people who never go into the work, but between the ages of 20-35 are doing many things on a regular basis to 'deny their self'. This is just another way to look at things, I suppose. This is likely a different topic, but I will share it here anyway:One problem I see with the friends and workers is that there is this mentality that being in the work is a superior way to live your life. Well, I would put forth that being in God's Will IS the best way to be if for nothing else than it brings peace, not because it is a sacrifice. The Sacrifice has been made by Christ. Any other sacrifice that follows pales in comparison. But friends and workers alike love to point to the sacrifice of the workers. This in my view is a dangerous mindset as it points to the workers instead of Christ. Every decade has been a little better than the last one for me. I hope it continues . I agree though bitterbetty, we need to appreciate EVERY part of the body. It all works together perfectly as God has planned. Putting any part of the body except the "head" on a pedestal will no doubt cause us to take our focus off of Christ.
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Post by bitterbetty on Aug 29, 2015 19:43:59 GMT -5
Thanks for that JD. I guess I cannot disagree, if that is how a person feels about what is considered the 'best years of their life'... We differ in that regard. Age 20's-30's: were those the best years of my life? I cannot rightly say because the 'best' may be yet to come. Those were all good years; some of them great years- but after age 35, when I started writing great songs I was pleasantly surprised at what a wonderful turn my life had taken at a time when I least expected it...It's all good, in a way and you just go forward. To categorize a certain age range as the 'best years' is not in my vocabulary. Also, a person can do God's will and not their own even if they are NOT in the work. Is the work the ultimate sacrifice for the Lord? What would Jesus say on that matter? He said to deny ourselves, take up our Cross and follow Him. Denying yourself can take on many forms...there are plenty of people who never go into the work, but between the ages of 20-35 are doing many things on a regular basis to 'deny their self'. This is just another way to look at things, I suppose. This is likely a different topic, but I will share it here anyway:One problem I see with the friends and workers is that there is this mentality that being in the work is a superior way to live your life. Well, I would put forth that being in God's Will IS the best way to be if for nothing else than it brings peace, not because it is a sacrifice. The Sacrifice has been made by Christ. Any other sacrifice that follows pales in comparison. But friends and workers alike love to point to the sacrifice of the workers. This in my view is a dangerous mindset as it points to the workers instead of Christ. Every decade has been a little better than the last one for me. I hope it continues . I agree though bitterbetty, we need to appreciate EVERY part of the body. It all works together perfectly as God has planned. Putting any part of the body except the "head" on a pedestal will no doubt cause us to take our focus off of Christ. Thx, jd. I hope that continues for you as well. I guess I'd have to say that for me there have been good timess, bad times, great times, and just average or 'fair' times. Disappointments? Heck yeah!! One of the greatest disappointments for people is when their body is failing/ailing and they cannot seem to do anything to stop it. But perhaps an even greater disappointments are those you face as a parent who has somehow failed...Being disappointed in yourself is maybe the hardest and forgiving yourself is also hard. Dealing with times in which you have been a fool and felt ASHAMED-that's not easy-but to be able to overcome your shame is a victory. Lessons to be learned? Surely! But that's all part of life and if a person can somehow get through the disappointments and struggles without feeling defeated and depressed, that is quite a miracle. I think most everyone has suffered to some degree or another...some seem to have been through TREMENDOUS suffering-maybe more suffering than is rightly fair or seemingly just. I wouldn't wish suffering on anyone. But, it's unpredictable sometimes-who will suffer and/or how they will suffer. Granted, some people end up suffering as a result of CHOICES they have made. But, some folks seem to end up suffering through no fault of their own. The ongoing challenge throughout life is to somehow find that silver lining during those dark times. When someone is going through a dark phase-it's DIFFICULT for them to see...let alone see any light. My heart goes out to them. If they can just somehow get through that dark tunnel... I've been through many dark times myself. I have found myself in a place of desperation many times. The Lord has never really let me down in the long run...cause there have also been many times of sweet redemption. I believe that we need those times of sweet redemption. It restores our faith and gives us hope and fortitude to carry on and hopefully offsets any bitterness that might take root. One of my greatest concerns is that I might become a bitter person due to disappointment in life, because that can sure happen...The past is in the past. Tomorrow is not yet here. So, I try to embrace the present. Life is too short to be carrying around a bunch of regret all the time...
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Post by bitterbetty on Aug 29, 2015 19:58:59 GMT -5
.....or 50, or 60...who knows.... I like the definition my mother gave about "life begins at 40" She said it begins to fall apart. That may be true for some but maybe not all. I always chuckled when she said that because for her it was true. Aww...that's sad! But maybe somehow things will start to look up. I have to say that I had times in my 20's when life seemed to be "falling apart". A stressful period perhaps. A perplexing experience. I got through them somehow and in a way it helped me later on as I would inevitably face the 'next' perplexing thing that might come along. Next....? Sometimes it's the hard things and hard lessons that give us the utmost positive resolve....I guess you could say that in a way it gives you a fighting spirit to fight a good fight and not give up.
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