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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 12:33:25 GMT -5
I don't know who or where. But I keep reading this on facebook. My facebook friends rejoice to see new servants. OK did they know 2 brothers left MI last year? Or Florida lost a worker? I wonder how long these baby workers last?
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Post by howitis on Aug 24, 2015 18:01:16 GMT -5
Another edifying thread Walker!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2015 18:17:24 GMT -5
Another edifying thread Walker!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 15:36:27 GMT -5
This thread seems to upset Howitis. I have seen some young workers get burned out after a year or two. Nobody told them about the fitting in/filling your place, dress and travel restrictions etc.. I have seen names at the bottom of the list.....John Smith resting.
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Post by howitis on Aug 25, 2015 15:43:46 GMT -5
This thread seems to upset Howitis. I have seen some young workers get burned out after a year or two. Nobody told them about the fitting in/filling your place, dress and travel restrictions etc.. I have seen names at the bottom of the list.....John Smith resting. Of course its upsetting....it could have said 'isn't that fabulous wonder what we can do yo help out' instead of 'wonder how long they'll last'......its ok Walker I appreciate your passing on of 'news' thankyou very much.....the spoon attitude is a little sad, take care...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 16:21:38 GMT -5
spoon?
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Post by howitis on Aug 25, 2015 16:52:41 GMT -5
You'll work it out, promise......just think about it, I'm sure it'll come to you
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Post by christiansburg on Aug 25, 2015 19:47:06 GMT -5
I don't know who or where. But I keep reading this on facebook. My facebook friends rejoice to see new servants. OK did they know 2 brothers left MI last year? Or Florida lost a worker? I wonder how long these baby workers last? Actually two workers left Florida last year and married each other. Went back to their home state of Wisconsin and now have an open home for others. They gave the best 15 year of their life. A wonderful sacrifice I think.
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Post by howitis on Aug 25, 2015 20:03:32 GMT -5
I don't know who or where. But I keep reading this on facebook. My facebook friends rejoice to see new servants. OK did they know 2 brothers left MI last year? Or Florida lost a worker? I wonder how long these baby workers last? Actually two workers left Florida last year and married each other. Went back to their home state of Wisconsin and now have an open home for others. They gave the best 15 year of their life. A wonderful sacrifice I think. Thanks Christiansburg. We are all grateful for any effort put forth by any life to glorify God!
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Post by bluejay on Aug 25, 2015 22:01:04 GMT -5
This thread seems to upset Howitis. I have seen some young workers get burned out after a year or two. Nobody told them about the fitting in/filling your place, dress and travel restrictions etc.. I have seen names at the bottom of the list.....John Smith resting. I'm sure that most who offer for the work would be well aware of the expectations. And some of those who do spend time in the ministry will become burned out, or discover it isn't for them. It happens to most of us at one time or another. I'm also sure that the young professing people are well aware of these sites, and the information/discussions involved. Thirty plus years ago there may have been a lack of information readily available, but that certainly isn't the case today. In it purest form, I believe they are just doing what they feel God is leading them to do. I respect that. Just my thoughts.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 7:12:38 GMT -5
Sometimes kids in certain worker producing families feel pressure to "offer". The Bishop siblings offered in the Memphis area this year. They are grand nephews of the Hobbs (Ira, Joe, Ruth etc.). I often wonder if one sibling doesn't pressure the other one in some cases. Sometimes someone will infiltrate the professing groups prior to being banned and discuss Irvine and the CSA problem...I am surprised that some say they never knew about the history of the fellowship.
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Post by howitis on Aug 26, 2015 7:22:57 GMT -5
Perhaps its as simple as being content and not too worried about the history. The same as in some families people try to trace their family trees whilst others show little interest. Some Christians take great joy in tracing all the genealogies back through the OT, I know of a man who made a 16 metre long, 3 metre high wall hanging of it.....whereas some that wouldn't appeal to at all!! Thankful that God made us all different with different interests and gifts of different knowledge, we can help one another, but the world would be mighty boring if we were all brain surgeons!
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Post by Ed on Aug 28, 2015 15:56:18 GMT -5
Perhaps its as simple as being content and not too worried about the history. The same as in some families people try to trace their family trees whilst others show little interest. Some Christians take great joy in tracing all the genealogies back through the OT, I know of a man who made a 16 metre long, 3 metre high wall hanging of it.....whereas some that wouldn't appeal to at all!! Thankful that God made us all different with different interests and gifts of different knowledge, we can help one another, but the world would be mighty boring if we were all brain surgeons! So what you are saying then is that some people are more interested in truth than others. I agree. Some even come to love the truth and can't get enough. Others aren't sure it's important and don't care enough to think about it. 2 Thess 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
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Post by howitis on Aug 28, 2015 17:28:09 GMT -5
Not really @ed Ballard, many people in families are content, regardless of the family's history, it doesn't mean they love less, just that they are content. Godliness with contentment is great gain.........isn't that what we've been taught? If a bunch of old photos and a few newspaper clippings changes how we love our family that's pretty sad.
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Post by bitterbetty on Aug 28, 2015 17:33:00 GMT -5
I don't know who or where. But I keep reading this on facebook. My facebook friends rejoice to see new servants. OK did they know 2 brothers left MI last year? Or Florida lost a worker? I wonder how long these baby workers last? Actually two workers left Florida last year and married each other. Went back to their home state of Wisconsin and now have an open home for others. They gave the best 15 year of their life. A wonderful sacrifice I think. Would that really be the best 15 years of a person's life? What do I mean by that question? Well, I guess maybe just that I like to think that for anyone perhaps the best is yet to come and maybe that is so, but maybe not. Most can hearken back to a time in our life that was perhaps the "best" time in our life...but we really don't know that, do we, because we do not yet know what tomorrow will bring. As good as we've gotten about a lot of things, we still cannot predict the future. For that couple starting out now married: maybe they will be blessed with children and grandchildren someday and may find that raising kids, as challenging as it may be, might be one of the hardest, most important "jobs" they ever LOVE the MOST! Well, until you become a parent yourself, you really have no idea what it is like give birth and the indescribeable love that comes over you...and FEELINGS of a parent for a dearly beloved child. It's one of the pinnacles of life.
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Post by Mary on Aug 28, 2015 17:37:28 GMT -5
Perhaps its as simple as being content and not too worried about the history. The same as in some families people try to trace their family trees whilst others show little interest. Some Christians take great joy in tracing all the genealogies back through the OT, I know of a man who made a 16 metre long, 3 metre high wall hanging of it.....whereas some that wouldn't appeal to at all!! Thankful that God made us all different with different interests and gifts of different knowledge, we can help one another, but the world would be mighty boring if we were all brain surgeons! Not a very good attempt at trying to convince people that covering up the history did not matter. It is not the history that is the problem, it is the attempts they went to, to cover it up. Listening to years of "unlike other churches we have no earthly founder". We have no name "because all other churches are a break away from us" - heard that one preached too. That is where the problem is. In a sense it was tricking our ancestors into believing they had found the original church. No internet to check this out in their day. So yes, to our ancestors that was a draw card, but for many it is not the main issue, it was finding out that the truth was not the truth. No matter what the lie was, it is the deception that is the issue, just the history was where the untruth was or more correctly a deliberate attempt to deceive. To most people the truth does matter. Rationalising and minimising that fact is only an attempt to convince yourself that it did not matter. It is nothing to do with people being interested in history or family trees but it is all to do with being told something that was not true. God made us with different gifts and interests but honesty is one thing it would hope that he made in common with most people and especially those who profess to be followers of Him. It is not about being worried about the history, it is about being worried about being told the truth. So some are given the gift of telling to truth, but others are given the gift of not - doesn't make sense to me because that is where the issue is - not the history itself. The lie could have been anything, it could have been a worker claiming to be Jesus and people believing and following that as some people do in some places. After all the workers claim to be apostles which could be viewed almost as deceptive to some. We can't all be brain surgeons but lets hope that honesty is something that most aspire to. So howitis, rationalising it won't work. Being accountable and honest, saying they messed up will for most people. Jondough is one of the few professing folk on here who says this and he gains my respect. Todays workers can put this right and restore trust and respect; it is not too late but while rationalising still occurs it tells me nothing has changed with people trying to put the onus on the 'victims' and not the perpetrators. Yes, Godliness with contentment is great gain - that was not what I would call Godliness. The truth matters.
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Post by bitterbetty on Aug 28, 2015 18:02:53 GMT -5
If you are a believer, one of the most important things you could do is 'preach the Gospel' to others-'preaching' it in various ways...not necessarily by making the 'sacrifice' of going out into the work and spreading the Gospel abroad in various places, the 'adventure' of traveling around, etc, etc...seeing new places, meeting new people, and what not. While that has its appeal and virtue, some of the greatest 'adventures' and worthwhile 'journeys' are those that are found close to home and even in the home. Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned...but for some of the greatest 'thrills' one need look not much further than: home. Maybe it's just how I was raised. Staying put was FULL of adventure. Part of that is simply growing up on a large piece of property out in the middle of nowhere. Part of my 'education' couldn't be taught in the classroom and many of the lessons in life couldn't be received by sitting and listening to someone preach. I'm talking about the lessons of APPLIED life....sticking to your guns...loving your neighbors...being there....helping others in their time of devastation, sorrow and need. Glamorous? Not always thought to be so. But, the greatest 'strides' are those are often those made in families. Learning to live in harmony. Singing in harmony. Getting joy from some of the most simple, basic things like a guitar in good tune and fiddle that sounds sweeter the more it is played. Growing a garden, making a batch of home-made bread. Loving one another unconditionally. Sticking with it. Yeah, I guess I am kind of old fashioned after all....Grandma 'preached' the Gospel in her own way and time....The words of my believing Grandma have stayed with me just as much as any official preacher. And, in some cases, those who stay home and make home life rich are indeed sacrificing for something very great...Just another way to look at things...
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Post by howitis on Aug 28, 2015 18:29:01 GMT -5
Mary, I am very sorry for your experience in feeling you were deceived, I am very sorry for others experience in feeling they were deceived. It was NOT my experience and it is NOT the experience I pass on to others. I encourage others to ask questions and am wonderfully reassured when workers invite questions, have heard just today of some workers who have asked people to put their questions in a box, anonymously, and there will be evenings where the workers will endeavour to answer them......this is not a new idea, it has happened in many places over the years, but how wonderful. As far as the history goes, some people love history some people don't care. My neighbour after much delving found she had a brother 20+ years older than her, she loved it, her sister didn't care at all! I love the history of our faith and believe the half has not been told....one day we will know it all and if perchance that's not 'til we're in Heaven with our Lord.....how much do you think it will matter then?
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Post by Mary on Aug 28, 2015 19:14:26 GMT -5
I like the idea of putting questions in a box but it has been the experience of many that the workers view questions as lacking in faith. As we can see that the one worker who engages on this board does not answer questions but instead turns it back onto the person while at the same time saying anyone can bring their questions to him. Questions to workers are rationalised away and minimised as we see people in meetings doing on here too such as your post above. It would be good to have discussions by those in the groups generated by the questions not just some vague answers by a worker or two as we know many can not be trusted without rationalising it away. When people ask questions they have usually been told to just come to meetings. They do not answer question from outsiders. I have had a number of people contact me, who have contacted the workers from letter box drops or visits to their home and they have been told that this way has always been and to just come to meetings. Questions were not answered so they searched the internet and found out for themselves.
As I said history is not the issue, it is lying that was the issue. I don't care about history and how many people are really interested in history anyway. It is something being presented as truth when it was not.
You say that it has not been your experience which I presume you mean that the workers have said that they were the true church and come from the sea of Galilee so to speak, but you can hear it at every meeting and convention.
It is not the feeling that people were deceived which is again turning it onto the people who were deceived rather than the offenders. The problem was the deceivers, so patronising people by saying sorry they felt like they were deceived avoids the issue of the perpetrators taking responsibility for deceiving people and points it back to the 'victims'. Typical stance when people get abused, making out that the problem is the person who was abused rather than the offender of the crime.
I am so glad to know the truth but I feel for the deceived. I wonder why it is so hard for some to say 'they' messed up and state it. The Catholic church has led the way in this.
We frequently heard that it takes an honest soul to believe and follow the workers. My response is it takes an honest soul to leave.
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Post by christiansburg on Aug 28, 2015 19:59:43 GMT -5
Actually two workers left Florida last year and married each other. Went back to their home state of Wisconsin and now have an open home for others. They gave the best 15 year of their life. A wonderful sacrifice I think. Would that really be the best 15 years of a person's life? What do I mean by that question? Well, I guess maybe just that I like to think that for anyone perhaps the best is yet to come and maybe that is so, but maybe not. Most can hearken back to a time in our life that was perhaps the "best" time in our life...but we really don't know that, do we, because we do not yet know what tomorrow will bring. As good as we've gotten about a lot of things, we still cannot predict the future. For that couple starting out now married: maybe they will be blessed with children and grandchildren someday and may find that raising kids, as challenging as it may be, might be one of the hardest, most important "jobs" they ever LOVE the MOST! Well, until you become a parent yourself, you really have no idea what it is like give birth and the indescribeable love that comes over you...and FEELINGS of a parent for a dearly beloved child. It's one of the pinnacles of life. Your comments are interesting. My feeling about the best 15 years is this. They were in the work from ages 20 to almost 35. They were young and could have been seeking the best for themselves like most young people would do. But no, they didn't do that because they sought the interest of the kingdom and put that first. That is the best choice anyone can make. What they would have been as older workers is unknown but certainly there will be good days ahead for them. I became a parent at age 31 and I know you are right that a person has not idea of what it is like to become a parent and the joy it brings to see the birth of your children. I witnessed my wife deliver three children and that was a wonderful experience for us both. The first eight year of my adult life were spent in the work. So I know both sides of this story.
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Post by howitis on Aug 28, 2015 22:27:47 GMT -5
Mary, I would never be so much as game to call myself an honest soul, if you lay claim to that title good for you!
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Post by howitis on Aug 28, 2015 22:27:57 GMT -5
Mary, I would never be so much as game to call myself an honest soul, if you lay claim to that title good for you!
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Post by bitterbetty on Aug 28, 2015 23:06:14 GMT -5
My feeling about the best 15 years is this. They were in the work from ages 20 to almost 35. They were young and could have been seeking the best for themselves like most young people would do. But no, they didn't do that because they sought the interest of the kingdom and put that first. That is the best choice anyone can make. What they would have been as older workers is unknown but certainly there will be good days ahead for them. I became a parent at age 31 and I know you are right that a person has not idea of what it is like to become a parent and the joy it brings to see the birth of your children. I witnessed my wife deliver three children and that was a wonderful experience for us both. The first eight year of my adult life were spent in the work. So I know both sides of this story. I can appreciate you have a perspective of being on both sides, but to state being a worker is the "best choice a person can make" seems to present a rather superior attitude. If you are a believer, I would think you believe the best choice a person can make is the choice for salvation. Also, many people put God's Kingdom first-they may not be called into the work by God-doesn't mean they are doing less than the best in the eyes of God, nor would I judge them in that regard. You do not have to be a worker to 'seek the interest of the kingdom'.There are some people who were in the work,but left it, perhaps because they were unhappy-I would imagine there are many reasons a person leaves the Work-maybe not all those years were the best ones or they would have stayed in. There are probably some non workers who put God first moreso than some workers. The Lord knows who is giving their best. I still prefer to have the attitude that the best is yet to come...hey, it's a positive outlook.
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 28, 2015 23:15:51 GMT -5
Perhaps its as simple as being content and not too worried about the history. The same as in some families people try to trace their family trees whilst others show little interest. Some Christians take great joy in tracing all the genealogies back through the OT, I know of a man who made a 16 metre long, 3 metre high wall hanging of it.....whereas some that wouldn't appeal to at all!! Thankful that God made us all different with different interests and gifts of different knowledge, we can help one another, but the world would be mighty boring if we were all brain surgeons! Not a very good attempt at trying to convince people that covering up the history did not matter. It is not the history that is the problem, it is the attempts they went to, to cover it up. Listening to years of "unlike other churches we have no earthly founder". We have no name "because all other churches are a break away from us" - heard that one preached too. That is where the problem is. In a sense it was tricking our ancestors into believing they had found the original church. No internet to check this out in their day. So yes, to our ancestors that was a draw card, but for many it is not the main issue, it was finding out that the truth was not the truth. No matter what the lie was, it is the deception that is the issue, just the history was where the untruth was or more correctly a deliberate attempt to deceive. To most people the truth does matter. Rationalising and minimising that fact is only an attempt to convince yourself that it did not matter. It is nothing to do with people being interested in history or family trees but it is all to do with being told something that was not true. God made us with different gifts and interests but honesty is one thing it would hope that he made in common with most people and especially those who profess to be followers of Him. It is not about being worried about the history, it is about being worried about being told the truth. So some are given the gift of telling to truth, but others are given the gift of not - doesn't make sense to me because that is where the issue is - not the history itself. The lie could have been anything, it could have been a worker claiming to be Jesus and people believing and following that as some people do in some places. After all the workers claim to be apostles which could be viewed almost as deceptive to some. We can't all be brain surgeons but lets hope that honesty is something that most aspire to. So howitis, rationalising it won't work. Being accountable and honest, saying they messed up will for most people. Jondough is one of the few professing folk on here who says this and he gains my respect. Todays workers can put this right and restore trust and respect; it is not too late but while rationalising still occurs it tells me nothing has changed with people trying to put the onus on the 'victims' and not the perpetrators. Yes, Godliness with contentment is great gain - that was not what I would call Godliness. Thank you Mary, that is exactly what the issue is finding out "The Truth" was not "the truth" ! The truth matters.
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Post by bitterbetty on Aug 28, 2015 23:16:46 GMT -5
Your comments are interesting. My feeling about the best 15 years is this. They were in the work from ages 20 to almost 35. They were young and could have been seeking the best for themselves like most young people would do. But no, they didn't do that because they sought the interest of the kingdom and put that first. That is the best choice anyone can make. What they would have been as older workers is unknown but certainly there will be good days ahead for them. I became a parent at age 31 and I know you are right that a person has not idea of what it is like to become a parent and the joy it brings to see the birth of your children. I witnessed my wife deliver three children and that was a wonderful experience for us both. The first eight year of my adult life were spent in the work. So I know both sides of this story. We have similar experienced. I offered for the work when I was 19 yrs old. Waited for 7 yrs. Went in the work at the age of 26. Left the work at the age of 33. Married with one Son. The work has given me an understanding of Jesus and the apostles work of joy, blessings, which bring many souls to Christ through the gospel. Married life gives me an insight of a wonderful life with a soul mate. Both life style has blessings in itself. I am so blessed with experiencing both sides of life. Guess what Nathan-my walk as a child of God has "given me an understanding of Jesus and the apostles work of joy, blessings, which bring many souls to Christ through the gospel."-And I've never been a worker!. My point is you do not have to be a worker to experience these things and have a good understanding.
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Post by kurtzphil69 on Aug 28, 2015 23:28:01 GMT -5
"Baby workers"? Never heard that term before. Isn't everyone who wants to enter into the Kingdom of God required to be like a little child?
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Post by withlove on Aug 29, 2015 0:02:02 GMT -5
This thread seems to upset Howitis. I have seen some young workers get burned out after a year or two. Nobody told them about the fitting in/filling your place, dress and travel restrictions etc.. I have seen names at the bottom of the list.....John Smith resting. I'm sure that most who offer for the work would be well aware of the expectations. And some of those who do spend time in the ministry will become burned out, or discover it isn't for them. It happens to most of us at one time or another. I'm also sure that the young professing people are well aware of these sites, and the information/discussions involved. Thirty plus years ago there may have been a lack of information readily available, but that certainly isn't the case today. In it purest form, I believe they are just doing what they feel God is leading them to do. I respect that. Just my thoughts. While probably most young professing people have heard that there are sites like this, I haven't noticed a culture change since the letters were sent in the 90's (except then the letters could be destroyed without the kids knowing). The message is to avoid anything which isn't edifying, that there is misinformation, and in general that someone who is really possessing won't be interested in anything there and will gladly ignore and avoid, that posters are bitter and crazy and have lost their faith and their love. The young/weak must be protected because they aren't fully established yet. But Thought-stopping is still effective. Fear of having faith shaken will stop people from reading too much.
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Post by withlove on Aug 29, 2015 0:08:59 GMT -5
Mary, I am very sorry for your experience in feeling you were deceived, I am very sorry for others experience in feeling they were deceived. It was NOT my experience and it is NOT the experience I pass on to others. I encourage others to ask questions and am wonderfully reassured when workers invite questions, have heard just today of some workers who have asked people to put their questions in a box, anonymously, and there will be evenings where the workers will endeavour to answer them......this is not a new idea, it has happened in many places over the years, but how wonderful. As far as the history goes, some people love history some people don't care. My neighbour after much delving found she had a brother 20+ years older than her, she loved it, her sister didn't care at all! I love the history of our faith and believe the half has not been told....one day we will know it all and if perchance that's not 'til we're in Heaven with our Lord.....how much do you think it will matter then? Shepherds who do not own up to deceptions may be very grieved then. It will matter to them.
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