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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 22:01:18 GMT -5
trouble is that is you way of thinking yes their some very wonderful people in this age and through the ages but unless they are renewed by God that is as far as it goes because it is a place of eternal joy and not a place of eternal sadness and of course it is where Jesus is and that is who i want to be with Virgo, how do YOU know who is renewed by God ? Were you around 2000 years ago to see who was renewed by God? Were you around 100 years ago ? the same way that all the followers of Christ do
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 1, 2015 22:08:36 GMT -5
Virgo, you made a statement, you said YOU can tell if a person has a relationship with God, you seem to think YOU are the only person who knows how God thinks. What do you feel/see the difference is between judging and discerning? Yes as you said no one is perfect ! People do put on a good front, did the 2 workers in Australia that committed CSA show the fruits, were they a light ? Of course you will not answer this
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 22:09:40 GMT -5
no it is not what i am saying, it is not about judgement it is about discernment In this contex, can you explain the difference between judgement and discernment? I appreciate it. judgement to the spiritual way of thinking is condemning, discernment to the spiritual way of thinking is to understand/discern what is right or wrong in the eyes of God 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 1, 2015 22:11:04 GMT -5
Virgo, how do YOU know who is renewed by God ? Were you around 2000 years ago to see who was renewed by God? Were you around 100 years ago ? the same way that all the followers of Christ do Which is how ? When you say ALL, do you mean everyone who follows Christ, not just the F&W ?
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Post by jondough on Aug 1, 2015 22:12:26 GMT -5
In this contex, can you explain the difference between judgement and discernment? I appreciate it. judgement to the spiritual way of thinking is condemning, discernment to the spiritual way of thinking is to understand/discern what is right or wrong in the eyes of God 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But when a human (not God) "discerns" that another human is wrong - wouldn't that be condemning?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 22:13:57 GMT -5
Virgo, you made a statement, you said YOU can tell if a person has a relationship with God, you seem to think YOU are the only person who knows how God thinks. What do you feel/see the difference is between judging and discerning? Yes as you said no one is perfect ! People do put on a good front, did the 2 workers in Australia that committed CSA show the fruits, were they a light ? Of course you will not answer this any person who goes against what is correct in the sight of God cannot show the fruits or be a light ever heard of the tares amongst the wheat?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 22:15:55 GMT -5
judgement to the spiritual way of thinking is condemning, discernment to the spiritual way of thinking is to understand/discern what is right or wrong in the eyes of God 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But when a human (not God) "discerns" that another human is wrong - wouldn't that be condemning? we are talking about those who have the Spirit of God not just plain humanity who can't do anything but condemn, it's in the nature of the beast
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 1, 2015 22:16:33 GMT -5
Virgo, you made a statement, you said YOU can tell if a person has a relationship with God, you seem to think YOU are the only person who knows how God thinks. What do you feel/see the difference is between judging and discerning? Yes as you said no one is perfect ! People do put on a good front, did the 2 workers in Australia that committed CSA show the fruits, were they a light ? Of course you will not answer this any person who goes against what is correct in the sight of God cannot show the fruits or be a light ever heard of the tares amongst the wheat? Of course Virgo, but for how many years did they appear to have fruit? Or are you saying that for all they years they both preached they showed no fruit or were not a light ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 22:18:31 GMT -5
the same way that all the followers of Christ do Which is how ? When you say ALL, do you mean everyone who follows Christ, not just the F&W ? anyone who follows Christ, i thought when i said all that it was pretty self explanatory
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 22:20:08 GMT -5
any person who goes against what is correct in the sight of God cannot show the fruits or be a light ever heard of the tares amongst the wheat? Of course Virgo, but for how many years did they appear to have fruit? Or are you saying that for all they years they both preached they showed no fruit or were not a light ? i think you can answer these question yourself, i hate this forever going around and around with you. same ol same ol
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2015 22:31:51 GMT -5
Well that's interesting because I have the ability to not do things I might want to do. Material things for the most part really don't interest me at all. I get what I need to live. I do try to love myself because I believe not loving yourself is not healthy. But I struggle with that because of early programming that told me that loving myself was wrong. It's not just having the ability to overcome things you might not want to do, it's the ability to overcome evil with good. The ability to overcome the wrong things within our own hearts and the ability to forgive others when they hurt us. Showing kindness back. It's going against our own nature and we can only go so far with this. But with Christ and the love of God in our hearts we can become strong. And we have the ability to endure a lot more than we would without God. This is how I see it, because it's happened to me! And you are claiming I cannot do that or that I don't do that. I do treat people with kindness and I think I have the ability to forgive and do it often. I don't think I do evil to start with. If I was able to remain friends with my ex husband that was mentally and physically abusive to the point that I held his son at his second marriage and helped him financially from time to time over the years until he died, I think that shows I do forgive those that hurt me and treated them with kindness. So where is God in that mix?
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 1, 2015 22:33:53 GMT -5
So what you are saying is, we as humans CANNOT always say we know when another has a relationship with God, also that people can put on a good front and appear to be something they are not.
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 1, 2015 22:42:58 GMT -5
But when a human (not God) "discerns" that another human is wrong - wouldn't that be condemning? we are talking about those who have the Spirit of God not just plain humanity who can't do anything but condemn, it's in the nature of the beast Again Virgo, how do YOU discern the difference between those who have the Spirit of God or just "plain humanity" ? By the way what is "plain humanity" to you personally ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 1, 2015 23:56:31 GMT -5
Thank you for that link Rational, some interesting reading !
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Post by matisse on Aug 2, 2015 0:22:10 GMT -5
There are websites out there which try to disprove the bible, showing apparent contradictions. I'm not sure why people attempt to destroy another person's faith in something they hold dear. But, to each his own. You might want to stay away from threads named, "Is the Bible Inerant?".
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Post by jondough on Aug 2, 2015 0:27:50 GMT -5
But when a human (not God) "discerns" that another human is wrong - wouldn't that be condemning? we are talking about those who have the Spirit of God not just plain humanity who can't do anything but condemn, it's in the nature of the beast I'll share my understanding, or at least what I think has been revealed to me, "Discernment" is something we do for ourselves. We are to discern good from bad, or at least let the HS move us to discern what should be a part of our own lives and what shouldn't. I don't think I read where Jesus, Paul, or any of the Disciples said that so long as you have the HS its ok to discern for others. To me, thats called judging. They told us that "judging" is wrong...period. No exceptions. We can change the word to "discernment" to justify judgement, but really, that doesn't change anything. We just fool ourselves. Thats my understanding anyway. Its what I try to live by.
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Post by maryhig on Aug 2, 2015 0:56:54 GMT -5
It's not just having the ability to overcome things you might not want to do, it's the ability to overcome evil with good. The ability to overcome the wrong things within our own hearts and the ability to forgive others when they hurt us. Showing kindness back. It's going against our own nature and we can only go so far with this. But with Christ and the love of God in our hearts we can become strong. And we have the ability to endure a lot more than we would without God. This is how I see it, because it's happened to me! And you are claiming I cannot do that or that I don't do that. I do treat people with kindness and I think I have the ability to forgive and do it often. I don't think I do evil to start with. If I was able to remain friends with my ex husband that was mentally and physically abusive to the point that I held his son at his second marriage and helped him financially from time to time over the years until he died, I think that shows I do forgive those that hurt me and treated them with kindness. So where is God in that mix? Firstly, i wasn't taking about you personally, why do you think i was? I even said that he has helped me do these things, why do you think that I mean't you personally. I never said you. I was speaking in general. What I mean is, God gives us the ability to overcome the things that before, we hadn't been able to do. As I said, I know because I've lived it, the more faith I have, and the more of my heart I give to God, the stronger I'm becoming and the more I'm able to overcome in my heart and in my life. We can think we're good and ok, but we all have faults, and sometimes we don't see them until they are pointed out to us. Like the rich young ruler. He went on about all the things he had done right, but Jesus knew he weakness. It was the love of money, and he showed him what was wrong in his heart. The young man didn't see it before. And Jesus himself. When he was called good master, he turned round and said, why do you call me good, there's none good but God. None of is are perfect, not one (except for Jesus) But Christ by the spirit, firstly shows us where we're wrong and gives us the strength to overcome our own weaknesses if we turn to him. As I said before, I know because I've been living it. I never once mean't anything personal about you. In fact I would put it myself way before you. Because I know God, and i know what he requires of me and I still go wrong! But now i believe that I can be held accountable for my actions. Every single one of us do wrong, not one of us is perfect. And by turning to God, I believe we get a stronger conscience and he shows us the wrong we didn't see before. As I said I know because it's happening to me. And again, all that I've written, was nothing about you personally. I was speaking in general.
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Post by maryhig on Aug 2, 2015 1:19:24 GMT -5
no it is not what i am saying, it is not about judgement it is about discernment In this contex, can you explain the difference between judgement and discernment? I appreciate it. It says in the bible that we can be given the ability to discern spirits. 1 Corinthians 12 to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. We knowing God, can be given the ability to hear the the spirit in others. Can you hear Gods spirit in another person of God through what they say? It's not just within ourselves, but God shows opens our eyes and ears to see and hear the spirit in others too. I can hear it in Jesus, Peter, Paul, James, John, Jude, etc. and also all those who belong to God now. Can't you?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 1:27:36 GMT -5
In this contex, can you explain the difference between judgement and discernment? I appreciate it. It says in the bible that we can be given the ability to discern spirits. 1 Corinthians 12 to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. We knowing God, can be given the ability to hear the the spirit in others. Can you hear Gods spirit in another person of God through what they say? It's not just within ourselves, but God shows opens our eyes to hear the spirit in others too. I can hear it in Jesus, Peter, Paul, James, John, Jude, etc. and also all those who belong to God now. Can't you? it seems like a few on here don't want to give God the credit for what He can do and just want to try work these things out in their own minds, sad really because there is so much that God can show us if we just put ourselves to one side
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Post by maryhig on Aug 2, 2015 1:27:58 GMT -5
judgement to the spiritual way of thinking is condemning, discernment to the spiritual way of thinking is to understand/discern what is right or wrong in the eyes of God 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But when a human (not God) "discerns" that another human is wrong - wouldn't that be condemning? What if someone is saying there is no God, and you know in your heart that there is. Some people are so sure, that they don't even say that they believe there isn't a God, but they say that they know that God doesn't exist and there is no God. Would you feel that what they are saying is wrong to you, if they said this? How is that condemning them? I believe that God has shown me he's there and that this statement is wrong.
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 2, 2015 1:33:04 GMT -5
we are talking about those who have the Spirit of God not just plain humanity who can't do anything but condemn, it's in the nature of the beast Again Virgo, how do YOU discern the difference between those who have the Spirit of God or just "plain humanity" ? By the way what is "plain humanity" to you personally ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 2, 2015 1:35:24 GMT -5
It says in the bible that we can be given the ability to discern spirits. 1 Corinthians 12 to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. We knowing God, can be given the ability to hear the the spirit in others. Can you hear Gods spirit in another person of God through what they say? It's not just within ourselves, but God shows opens our eyes to hear the spirit in others too. I can hear it in Jesus, Peter, Paul, James, John, Jude, etc. and also all those who belong to God now. Can't you? it seems like a few on here don't want to give God the credit for what He can do and just want to try work these things out in their own minds, sad really because there is so much that God can show us if we just put ourselves to one side It is not a matter of not giving credit to God for what he can do Virgo, its a matter of us as human's thinking we can discern/judge something but others can't.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 1:35:56 GMT -5
we are talking about those who have the Spirit of God not just plain humanity who can't do anything but condemn, it's in the nature of the beast I'll share my understanding, or at least what I think has been revealed to me, "Discernment" is something we do for ourselves. We are to discern good from bad, or at least let the HS move us to discern what should be a part of our own lives and what shouldn't. I don't think I read where Jesus, Paul, or any of the Disciples said that so long as you have the HS its ok to discern for others. To me, thats called judging. They told us that "judging" is wrong...period. No exceptions. We can change the word to "discernment" to justify judgement, but really, that doesn't change anything. We just fool ourselves. Thats my understanding anyway. Its what I try to live by. who said anything about discerning for others?
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 2, 2015 1:40:53 GMT -5
In this contex, can you explain the difference between judgement and discernment? I appreciate it. It says in the bible that we can be given the ability to discern spirits. 1 Corinthians 12 to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. We knowing God, can be given the ability to hear the the spirit in others. Can you hear Gods spirit in another person of God through what they say? It's not just within ourselves, but God shows opens our eyes to hear the spirit in others too. I can hear it in Jesus, Peter, Paul, James, John, Jude, etc. and also all those who belong to God now. Can't you? I was thinking about this last night, you said "Can you hear Gods spirit in another person of God through what they say? " Now an example to me is this: From what she posts, I would say Snow has a spirit of love for all people, now I don't know her personally, so I can only go on what she posts. Yet she doesn't believe in God.
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Post by maryhig on Aug 2, 2015 1:41:44 GMT -5
it seems like a few on here don't want to give God the credit for what He can do and just want to try work these things out in their own minds, sad really because there is so much that God can show us if we just put ourselves to one side It is not a matter of not giving credit to God for what he can do Virgo, its a matter of us as human's thinking we can discern/judge something but others can't. It's not a matter of judging them in there lives, it's a matter of knowing what a person is saying and whether it is or isn't from God. This is spiritual discernment.
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 2, 2015 1:42:20 GMT -5
I'll share my understanding, or at least what I think has been revealed to me, "Discernment" is something we do for ourselves. We are to discern good from bad, or at least let the HS move us to discern what should be a part of our own lives and what shouldn't. I don't think I read where Jesus, Paul, or any of the Disciples said that so long as you have the HS its ok to discern for others. To me, thats called judging. They told us that "judging" is wrong...period. No exceptions. We can change the word to "discernment" to justify judgement, but really, that doesn't change anything. We just fool ourselves. Thats my understanding anyway. Its what I try to live by. who said anything about discerning for others? Virgo did you not say that YOU can discern if a person has a relationship with God ??
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 1:44:05 GMT -5
judgement to the spiritual way of thinking is condemning, discernment to the spiritual way of thinking is to understand/discern what is right or wrong in the eyes of God 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But when a human (not God) "discerns" that another human is wrong - wouldn't that be condemning? just wondering if i mentioned anything about another human being wrong? even though Jesus and the Apostles condemned even His own people on many occasion, i wonder how they we able to do that? Paul wasn't able to discern that he and his fellows were wrong until he received the Holy Spirit and then he told them in no uncertain term so
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 1:45:01 GMT -5
It is not a matter of not giving credit to God for what he can do Virgo, its a matter of us as human's thinking we can discern/judge something but others can't. It's not a matter of judging them in there lives, it's a matter of knowing what a person is saying and whether it is or isn't from God. This is spiritual discernment. exactly, thanks
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