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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2015 17:25:27 GMT -5
So you are better than others because you believe in Jesus and others might have other beliefs? That is an opinion based on an ancient book that is so full of contradictions even those who do believe in Jesus can't get on the same track. Islam believe that you Christians are wrong and as long as you don't believe in Allah everything you do is for nothing too. Don't you see the irony of all these judgments? Why would a non believer doing good be any less important than a Jesus believer doing good? Really? I guess we'll find out on judgment day wont we. we have a better way not a better people... I would think a true way would produce a better people by default wouldn't it? However, there seem to be wonderful, good loving people that do lots of good no matter what religion you believe in, or even people who don't believe in any at all. Just dying and that being the end seems to me to be the best way. Can you tell me why you want to go to heaven instead of just 'ending'? Just curious about why heaven is more appealing?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 17:27:39 GMT -5
one stuck out that was answered by Nathan in another post...Christ when he was resurrected did in fact come back before everyone died in that generation he wasn't speaking of the 1000 year reign he was speaking of his resurrection...
Mat_16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Luk_9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Free-form interpretation of the bible can provide an explanation that will satisfy many. Christ has the total and eternal explanation that will satisfy all questions if He is accepted
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2015 17:29:24 GMT -5
Virgo are you saying that you "personally can tell if another person has a relationship with God ? If so how? Explain what you see as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? yes by the spirit that God has put within and what agrees with that spirit by the spirit when most all that one wants to do, say or think is of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit/God/Christ becomes their lives Wow Virgo, that's quite a statement. It implies that you have the right spirit in the first place for you to be able to judge who else might have the right spirit. Is this what you are saying?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 17:32:45 GMT -5
I guess we'll find out on judgment day wont we. we have a better way not a better people... I would think a true way would produce a better people by default wouldn't it? However, there seem to be wonderful, good loving people that do lots of good no matter what religion you believe in, or even people who don't believe in any at all. Just dying and that being the end seems to me to be the best way. Can you tell me why you want to go to heaven instead of just 'ending'? Just curious about why heaven is more appealing? trouble is that is you way of thinking yes their some very wonderful people in this age and through the ages but unless they are renewed by God that is as far as it goes because it is a place of eternal joy and not a place of eternal sadness and of course it is where Jesus is and that is who i want to be with
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2015 17:36:21 GMT -5
I would think a true way would produce a better people by default wouldn't it? However, there seem to be wonderful, good loving people that do lots of good no matter what religion you believe in, or even people who don't believe in any at all. Just dying and that being the end seems to me to be the best way. Can you tell me why you want to go to heaven instead of just 'ending'? Just curious about why heaven is more appealing? trouble is that is you way of thinking yes their some very wonderful people in this age and through the ages but unless they are renewed by God that is as far as it goes because it is a place of eternal joy and not a place of eternal sadness and of course it is where Jesus is and that is who i want to be with How would just dying and that is the end of it, sadness? There would be no emotion, nothing. Why wouldn't that be preferable. Eternal joy? Think about that for a minute. We are talking eternity here, not just a few billion years of happiness you know. I think anything eternal would get old and not be so wonderful at some point.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 17:38:49 GMT -5
yes by the spirit that God has put within and what agrees with that spirit by the spirit when most all that one wants to do, say or think is of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit/God/Christ becomes their lives Wow Virgo, that's quite a statement. It implies that you have the right spirit in the first place for you to be able to judge who else might have the right spirit. Is this what you are saying? no it is not what i am saying, it is not about judgement it is about discernment
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 17:39:50 GMT -5
trouble is that is you way of thinking yes their some very wonderful people in this age and through the ages but unless they are renewed by God that is as far as it goes because it is a place of eternal joy and not a place of eternal sadness and of course it is where Jesus is and that is who i want to be with How would just dying and that is the end of it, sadness? There would be no emotion, nothing. Why wouldn't that be preferable. Eternal joy? Think about that for a minute. We are talking eternity here, not just a few billion years of happiness you know. I think anything eternal would get old and not be so wonderful at some point. and again that is what you think
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 17:44:57 GMT -5
I guess we'll find out on judgment day wont we. we have a better way not a better people... I would think a true way would produce a better people by default wouldn't it? However, there seem to be wonderful, good loving people that do lots of good no matter what religion you believe in, or even people who don't believe in any at all. Just dying and that being the end seems to me to be the best way. Can you tell me why you want to go to heaven instead of just 'ending'? Just curious about why heaven is more appealing? it will be about learning more about our God/Jesus/Holy Spirit and the mystery of life. imagine learning something new each day and enjoying perfect health. how about the joy of never living in fear again? there are so many more new things we will be experiencing...
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2015 17:46:07 GMT -5
Wow Virgo, that's quite a statement. It implies that you have the right spirit in the first place for you to be able to judge who else might have the right spirit. Is this what you are saying? no it is not what i am saying, it is not about judgement it is about discernment Having a bit of trouble understanding the difference in this case.
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2015 17:48:12 GMT -5
I would think a true way would produce a better people by default wouldn't it? However, there seem to be wonderful, good loving people that do lots of good no matter what religion you believe in, or even people who don't believe in any at all. Just dying and that being the end seems to me to be the best way. Can you tell me why you want to go to heaven instead of just 'ending'? Just curious about why heaven is more appealing? it will be about learning more about our God/Jesus/Holy Spirit and the mystery of life. imagine learning something new each day and enjoying perfect health. how about the joy of never living in fear again? there are so many more new things we will be experiencing...
Do you really think there will be something new to learn every day for eternity? I wouldn't mind learning about why everything exists, but I just don't think forever sounds like a lot of fun.
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Post by maryhig on Aug 1, 2015 17:51:42 GMT -5
yes by the spirit that God has put within and what agrees with that spirit by the spirit when most all that one wants to do, say or think is of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit/God/Christ becomes their lives Wow Virgo, that's quite a statement. It implies that you have the right spirit in the first place for you to be able to judge who else might have the right spirit. Is this what you are saying? I understand what Virgo means, you know you have the spirit within your heart when you have the strength to overcome your own will. And you know the spirit is with you because God is opening your eyes to things around you. When you hear his word in others, and understand them, when you receive revelation. And when the material things of this world start to mean less and less. And love overcomes everything else in your heart. Because you're love for God is stronger than the love for yourself.
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Post by rational on Aug 1, 2015 17:54:05 GMT -5
yes by the spirit that God has put within and what agrees with that spirit by the spirit when most all that one wants to do, say or think is of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit/God/Christ becomes their lives Reading above, there seems to be no clear description/definition of how the Holy Spirit/God/Christ might manifest itself/themselves. Is it safe to assume you make that determination?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 17:57:50 GMT -5
yes by the spirit that God has put within and what agrees with that spirit by the spirit when most all that one wants to do, say or think is of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit/God/Christ becomes their lives Reading above, there seems to be no clear description/definition of how the Holy Spirit/God/Christ might manifest itself/themselves. Is it safe to assume you make that determination? no God makes that, it has nothing to do with anything of self
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 17:59:36 GMT -5
yes by the spirit that God has put within and what agrees with that spirit by the spirit when most all that one wants to do, say or think is of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit/God/Christ becomes their lives Reading above, there seems to be no clear description/definition of how the Holy Spirit/God/Christ might manifest itself/themselves. Is it safe to assume you make that determination? Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
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Post by rational on Aug 1, 2015 18:05:45 GMT -5
Free-form interpretation of the bible can provide an explanation that will satisfy many. Christ has the total and eternal explanation that will satisfy all questions if He is accepted Is it safe to assume that you have the total explanation? Can you share the information?
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Post by rational on Aug 1, 2015 18:07:21 GMT -5
Reading above, there seems to be no clear description/definition of how the Holy Spirit/God/Christ might manifest itself/themselves. Is it safe to assume you make that determination? no God makes that, it has nothing to do with anything of self I believe the question was regarding your 'personal' observation.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 18:09:42 GMT -5
Christ has the total and eternal explanation that will satisfy all questions if He is accepted Is it safe to assume that you have the total explanation? Can you share the information? no i don't have the total explanation
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 18:11:14 GMT -5
no God makes that, it has nothing to do with anything of self I believe the question was regarding your 'personal' observation. i don't have a personal observation everything is from God
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Post by snow on Aug 1, 2015 18:45:17 GMT -5
Wow Virgo, that's quite a statement. It implies that you have the right spirit in the first place for you to be able to judge who else might have the right spirit. Is this what you are saying? I understand what Virgo means, you know you have the spirit within your heart when you have the strength to overcome your own will. And you know the spirit is with you because God is opening your eyes to things around you. When you hear his word in others, and understand them, when you receive revelation. And when the material things of this world start to mean less and less. And love overcomes everything else in your heart. Because you're love for God is stronger than the love for yourself. Well that's interesting because I have the ability to not do things I might want to do. Material things for the most part really don't interest me at all. I get what I need to live. I do try to love myself because I believe not loving yourself is not healthy. But I struggle with that because of early programming that told me that loving myself was wrong.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 1, 2015 18:56:45 GMT -5
Inerrant means: Infallable, free from errors. If you had asked me this question 10yr ago I would have said yes.
Part of my testimony
Today my thoughts have changed..
The day I read John 1: 1-5 "In the begining was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. He was with God in the begining. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome it."
and the day I read
Heb 4:12 "For the word of God is quick and powerful sharper than any two edged sword piercing even to dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and the joints and marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
Something happened spiritually to me. I not only embraced but digested them as though they were food to my bones. There were other scriptures as well but these stand out. I began to believe in a way I had not believed before. I wanted God I wanted to know him like I never had. I wanted more of him to understand and know him in a real relevant way. I took theses scripture literally. It says Christ is my healer I wanted that. I had recieved a healing in my back which frankly surprised me when it happened. I wanted to see people free and be free myself. People opinions and religion had played there part in binding me up. If God is for us who can be against us? I needed to hear his voice and commune with him like he did with other people.
I learned he can be found. I learned to listen and respond to the voice of the holy spirit. My teachers taught the word was innerrant. Over time I began to see that the teaching of the early church was as real today as back then. I had believed the lie that God did not want to heal/deliver/show signs and wonders nor produce miracles. That is all a lie that man in his ignorance has chosen to remove from the words in scripture and give every reason using other scriptures to not have their faith increased extended and stretched beyond their wildest imaginings to develope them as leaders and obey the lord.
I am not a theological scholar. Nor do I claim to know everything. The bible was written and interpreted from languages I do not understand. We know now that man was here before Adam and Eve because of the ancient Samarians and Phoenician civilisations. Ive heard and read that there are many mistranslations and misinterpretations of scripture. I ask myself was that deliberate a result of intent or mistake? Unless I learn those languages how can I know the truth whether it is without error? My lifes journey tells me there is error.
I rely a lot on the inner witness of the holy spirit. I do have question marks over some things. The thing I keep coming back to in my walk with the lord is this. What man intends for evil God intends for good. There are many bible accounts as evidence of this. As for my life the reality of the holy spirit working with the word are too relevant and powerful to deny. You cannot have just scripture you will become a tinkling symbol. They do not work alone.
So in answer to the OP question.
No it is not without error.
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Post by jondough on Aug 1, 2015 19:51:41 GMT -5
Snow,
I think maybe the reason eternal life doesn't sound appealing is because you may think of it in light of our carnal experience of life here on earth.
We get old and decrypted here. We have health problems, especially as we grow older. We have enemies of sort. We have worries. We have limitations and weaknesses. We have insecurities. Etc etc....
We believe that non of this will be our portion in eternity. There will be no sorrow. Think about what brings you the most joy here on earth. Most likely it has to do with love of family and friends. I don't consider this love carnal. Especially if its not dependent on an earthly relationship. We take these best things with us, and leave those lousy things behind. We will also experience the Greatness of so much that as humans, we don't have the capability to comprehend. So much unknown.
Look at creation itself. Look at how much of this earthly creation, and the creation that we can see with our eyes that is massive and almost un-comprehendible in itself. This is a droplet of what we don't know or can comprehend.
Of course we believe in a God that is behind all of it. But eternity is something that non of us can even begin to comprehend. Not even Virgo.
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Post by maryhig on Aug 1, 2015 20:12:06 GMT -5
I understand what Virgo means, you know you have the spirit within your heart when you have the strength to overcome your own will. And you know the spirit is with you because God is opening your eyes to things around you. When you hear his word in others, and understand them, when you receive revelation. And when the material things of this world start to mean less and less. And love overcomes everything else in your heart. Because you're love for God is stronger than the love for yourself. Well that's interesting because I have the ability to not do things I might want to do. Material things for the most part really don't interest me at all. I get what I need to live. I do try to love myself because I believe not loving yourself is not healthy. But I struggle with that because of early programming that told me that loving myself was wrong. It's not just having the ability to overcome things you might not want to do, it's the ability to overcome evil with good. The ability to overcome the wrong things within our own hearts and the ability to forgive others when they hurt us. Showing kindness back. It's going against our own nature and we can only go so far with this. But with Christ and the love of God in our hearts we can become strong. And we have the ability to endure a lot more than we would without God. This is how I see it, because it's happened to me!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 21:06:01 GMT -5
Either people believe in the bible, or they don't believe in the bible. You can't make someone believe in it, if they choose to not believe in it. Those who do believe in it receive a lot of peace from the scriptures. There are websites out there which try to disprove the bible, showing apparent contradictions. I'm not sure why people attempt to destroy another person's faith in something they hold dear. But, to each his own. I also find it interesting that those who think of believers as superstitious, uneducated, uninformed and on and on generally think themselves very wise and educated. Those who believe in the bible aren't persuaded by the education of the unbelievers. Believers don't need proof. They just need faith. They have an anchor to hold onto in the storm of life, and have a hope of something better than the here and now. No one has to prove the bible to another. I find it a desperate act on the part of unbelievers when they attempt to destroy the faith of a Christian (whether that Christian be a 2x2, or whatever). We may bicker about scripture on this website (between 2x2s and other Christians), but we all at least have a hope that others don't have.
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 1, 2015 21:13:21 GMT -5
To my way of thinking I would call this Judging another by your own understanding, we can look on a person's life, but as humans all we see is the outward things, we DO NOT know what another relationship is with God. Its very easy to appear right on the outside, but it is God & God along who knows the heart. and that's your way of thinking, is it Gods way of thinking? you may call it Judging another by your own understanding but it's not , it is discerning with the spirit of God within, something you seem not to understand if you can't see what an others relationship with God is how shall we know them by their fruits? how will we see their light? every human being to some degree puts on a front of some sort, none are perfect do you believe God puts His spirit within a human being? "it is discerning with the spirit of God within, something you seem not to understand" Wow Virgo, if the above statement you made is not judging another I don't know what is ! "Something you seem NOT to understand", how do you discern this? You have never met me in person, all you have to go by is what I write here, yet you believe that you can make that judgement ! I cannot believe someone can be so self-righteous ! So are you saying you can tell if a person that goes to say a Uniting Church, has a relationship with God ? The next question would be, seeing as you can discern this, are the F&W the only people on earth that have a relationship with God ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 1, 2015 21:15:05 GMT -5
you may disagree and you cannot discern who has a relationship with God because one has to have the same spirit to see that buy the indwelling of the Holy Spirit Virgo are you saying that you "personally can tell if another person has a relationship with God ? If so how? Explain what you see as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 1, 2015 21:18:40 GMT -5
I would think a true way would produce a better people by default wouldn't it? However, there seem to be wonderful, good loving people that do lots of good no matter what religion you believe in, or even people who don't believe in any at all. Just dying and that being the end seems to me to be the best way. Can you tell me why you want to go to heaven instead of just 'ending'? Just curious about why heaven is more appealing? trouble is that is you way of thinking yes their some very wonderful people in this age and through the ages but unless they are renewed by God that is as far as it goes because it is a place of eternal joy and not a place of eternal sadness and of course it is where Jesus is and that is who i want to be with Virgo, how do YOU know who is renewed by God ? Were you around 2000 years ago to see who was renewed by God? Were you around 100 years ago ?
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Post by jondough on Aug 1, 2015 21:29:45 GMT -5
Wow Virgo, that's quite a statement. It implies that you have the right spirit in the first place for you to be able to judge who else might have the right spirit. Is this what you are saying? no it is not what i am saying, it is not about judgement it is about discernment In this contex, can you explain the difference between judgement and discernment? I appreciate it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 21:58:58 GMT -5
and that's your way of thinking, is it Gods way of thinking? you may call it Judging another by your own understanding but it's not , it is discerning with the spirit of God within, something you seem not to understand if you can't see what an others relationship with God is how shall we know them by their fruits? how will we see their light? every human being to some degree puts on a front of some sort, none are perfect do you believe God puts His spirit within a human being? "it is discerning with the spirit of God within, something you seem not to understand" Wow Virgo, if the above statement you made is not judging another I don't know what is ! "Something you seem NOT to understand", how do you discern this? You have never met me in person, all you have to go by is what I write here, yet you believe that you can make that judgement ! I cannot believe someone can be so self-righteous ! So are you saying you can tell if a person that goes to say a Uniting Church, has a relationship with God ? The next question would be, seeing as you can discern this, are the F&W the only people on earth that have a relationship with God ? ok you seem think different from what i know, no point in saying any more, i'm not interested in going around in circles
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