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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 3, 2015 22:44:46 GMT -5
Yeah it's of no real importance who we hear the Gospel through, it doesn't matter if the preacher is honest or dishonest, doesn't matter whether the preacher obeys Jesus or not. God isn't concerned with minor unimportant details like that. It is a strange concept having any concern about a minister & if he is a 'Pharisee' who says & does not. Jesus said don't worry, don't major on minors like that. A bit like some of the workers hey Review !
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 3, 2015 22:45:41 GMT -5
Yeah it's of no real importance who we hear the Gospel through, it doesn't matter if the preacher is honest or dishonest, doesn't matter whether the preacher obeys Jesus or not. God isn't concerned with minor unimportant details like that. It is a strange concept having any concern about a minister & if he is a 'Pharisee' who says & does not. Jesus said don't worry, don't major on minors like that. Review are you saying we have to hear the gospel through a worker only ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 3, 2015 22:50:01 GMT -5
Woes to Scribes and Pharisees …24"You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! 25"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence. 26"You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.…
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 3, 2015 23:32:45 GMT -5
Great way of not answering a direct question Review ! But of course you are absolutely predictable as well ! So just to clarify what exactly are "posters of my ilk" ? Are we people who have seen all the cover-ups with CSA, are we the people that have found out all the lies told by workers to cover-up things, are we the people that have been raised in a "Cult" maybe ? Or are we the bitter ex-s, the ones that were stopped from taking part in meeting because our spouse left us with children to rear and got on with their lives with someone else, so because we tried to move on with someone else we are punished, but if we were in parts of the US we would be able to re-marry !
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Post by fred on Jun 4, 2015 1:48:22 GMT -5
Great way of not answering a direct question Review ! But of course you are absolutely predictable as well ! So just to clarify what exactly are "posters of my ilk" ? Are we people who have seen all the cover-ups with CSA, are we the people that have found out all the lies told by workers to cover-up things, are we the people that have been raised in a "Cult" maybe ? Or are we the bitter ex-s, the ones that were stopped from taking part in meeting because our spouse left us with children to rear and got on with their lives with someone else, so because we tried to move on with someone else we are punished, but if we were in parts of the US we would be able to re-marry ! Did that give a buzz of cathartic release? My; you must be rejoicing that you no longer belongs to a cult that covers up CSA, where the ministers lie to cover up etc etc? Actually surprised you cut it so short, I expected a long litany from an experienced poster like yourself you know all the gossip, innuendo, scandal that gets on TMB. The other option is that she is just telling it as it happened.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 4, 2015 2:08:22 GMT -5
Great way of not answering a direct question Review ! But of course you are absolutely predictable as well ! So just to clarify what exactly are "posters of my ilk" ? Are we people who have seen all the cover-ups with CSA, are we the people that have found out all the lies told by workers to cover-up things, are we the people that have been raised in a "Cult" maybe ? Or are we the bitter ex-s, the ones that were stopped from taking part in meeting because our spouse left us with children to rear and got on with their lives with someone else, so because we tried to move on with someone else we are punished, but if we were in parts of the US we would be able to re-marry ! Did that give a buzz of cathartic release? My; you must be rejoicing that you no longer belongs to a cult that covers up CSA, where the ministers lie to cover up etc etc? Actually surprised you cut it so short, I expected a long litany from an experienced poster like yourself you know all the gossip, innuendo, scandal that gets on TMB. Review you should know by now my posts are usually very blunt & to the point ! And you still have not answered the question of what exactly are "posters of my ilk" ? You obviously feel its ok for people to be stopped from taking part in meeting because their spouse leaves them then ? I must say you show a good Christian Spirit about such serious things.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 4, 2015 3:49:56 GMT -5
Yes Review, I would say I am unique ! As to jumping to assumptions, well if a person asked a question the normal thing that happens is the other person answers If they don't well it leaves it wide open for assumptions
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 4, 2015 3:54:27 GMT -5
ilk - definition of ilk by The Free Dictionary www.thefreedictionary.com/ilkWord History: When one uses ilk, as in the phrase men of his ilk, one is using a ... 1. a type; class; sort (esp in the phrase of that, his, her, etc, ilk): people of that ilk ...
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Post by snow on Jun 4, 2015 17:40:58 GMT -5
Thanks for your posts, felicity. I just want to reassure you, that if something unforeseen happened that you were "excommunicated" or whatever and couldn't "profess", you definitely could keep your relationship with God. Alvin Thank you for sharing your perspective Alvin. I can't imagine anything I could do that wouldn't have an impact on my relationship with God, unless I was willing to repent and be restored. Hopefully I won't be tempted to put it to the test Unfortunately it sometimes doesn't take much to be excommunicated and in some cases there is nothing you can do about it.
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Post by snow on Jun 4, 2015 17:47:45 GMT -5
Faune, I have wondered from posts like this what behaviours you did encounter from the friends? Perhaps that's too nosy a question but if you can provide some insight that might be helpful. We discussed the concept of 'boundaries', so with a view to your personal situation, were some boundaries crossed?
What Hat ~ Personally, here's just a few areas where I feel any religious group crosses boundary lines when the leadership tries to dictate your life for you ~ such as what items you can have in your home and those that are not permitted, your dress and hairstyle, where you can go for entertainment, how to raise your family, and the unkind remarks of the professing Rumor Mill. I have had exposure to all of these areas personally as I'm sure many of the friends and ex-members have experienced the same. Also, one incident that I considered very intrusive in our life was at a time when we had just moved down South from the Northeast and encountered some unexpected set-backs in the area of employment. My husband's job that he had promised to him upon relocating completely vanished due to the recession of 1981. After trying to find employment elsewhere to no avail, we decided it was best that he returned to college for re-training and I returned to work. It was particularly hard, because we had three children 4 years old and under and the youngest was 8 months old when I return to work three months after our move. It appeared the workers didn't like me working with young children and felt I should quit my job in spite of the circumstances that we encountered. They even went as far as to suggest after three months in our new location that it would be better for us to move back North to where we would be better accepted, because we just didn't fit in that well down South in our assigned meeting. I guess the friends considered us too liberal for their ultraconservative area and relayed the same to the workers? As a result, we were visited by the overseer of TN and four (4) other senior workers to deliver their special message over a visit for tea. Needless to say, we both felt very insulted and their visit was more like "rubbing salt in wounds" than anything else. They made my husband feel like he wasn't really making an effort to find work after putting in over 100 applications, criticized him for his predicament, and chided me for not being a stay-at-home mother regardless of the situation we were confronted with. My husband never went back to another meeting after that visit and today is an agnostic/atheist. He lost all interest in God or church after that. Although we never took their advice and continued to do what we felt was best for our family at the time, I was especially shunned by many within the meeting afterwards along with our children. We were treated like "outsiders" on the "inside" for years until I had my own fill of the F&W's and left 14 years later in 1995. Why I stayed around and put up with such an attitude can only be contributed to the workers' fine conditioning regarding being damned if you left the meetings as well as God forsaken. Hopefully, you get my drift from what was shared above that we experienced plenty of interference in our lives that was worker-related without any justification. We never asked the workers or friends for any help or advice, but the workers felt they had a right to dictate our lives for us. That was crossing boundaries lines, IMHO. Wow, I wasn't aware that 2x2's expected women with children to stay at home with them? That's just not practical in all cases. Nice if you can, but not practical. Sorry to hear about your experiences. I would be upset by that also.
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Post by snow on Jun 4, 2015 17:53:55 GMT -5
Priests, pastors, ministers, workers all are brokers for God. They are not required to have a relationship with a Supreme Being, but they don't like to hear that because it would put a lot of them out of work wouldn't it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 20:15:01 GMT -5
Priests, pastors, ministers, workers all are brokers for God. They are not required to have a relationship with a Supreme Being, but they don't like to hear that because it would put a lot of them out of work wouldn't it! hmmm I don't have a verse(will have to look) but I think they(Priests, pastors, ministers, workers) DO have to have a relationship with God to be able to govern the flock properly...
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Post by snow on Jun 4, 2015 20:17:22 GMT -5
Priests, pastors, ministers, workers all are brokers for God. They are not required to have a relationship with a Supreme Being, but they don't like to hear that because it would put a lot of them out of work wouldn't it! hmmm I don't have a verse(will have to look) but I think they(Priests, pastors, ministers, workers) DO have to have a relationship with God... Sure they do, but they don't need other Priests, pastors, ministers or workers to have that relationship with God, just like the lay people in religions don't need the hierarchy.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 5, 2015 3:54:31 GMT -5
Yes, I understand that's your point of view. For me, professing is an outward acknowledgement of the relationship with God that I have within. I couldn't have one without the other. God see's all so really what is there need for "outward acknowledgement"? Is the outward acknowledgement to impress others ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 4:18:12 GMT -5
Yes, I understand that's your point of view. For me, professing is an outward acknowledgement of the relationship with God that I have within. I couldn't have one without the other. God see's all so really what is there need for "outward acknowledgement"? Is the outward acknowledgement to impress others ? Roselyn, I don't live my life to impress anyone. I'm trying to serve God, not man. I'm not perfect, but I believe that if God is working in my life there should be some evidence of that in the way I behave. Do you not think that is a reasonable expectation? "No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light."
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Post by maryhig on Jun 5, 2015 4:26:51 GMT -5
God see's all so really what is there need for "outward acknowledgement"? Is the outward acknowledgement to impress others ? Roselyn, I don't live my life to impress anyone. I'm trying to serve God, not man. I'm not perfect, but I believe that if God is working in my life there should be some evidence of that in the way I behave. Do you not think that is a reasonable expectation? "No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light." Way to go felicity, we have to let that light shine not only for ourselves within, but for others without, so we can help to guide others through darkness and bring them to God!
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 5, 2015 4:54:51 GMT -5
God see's all so really what is there need for "outward acknowledgement"? Is the outward acknowledgement to impress others ? Roselyn, I don't live my life to impress anyone. I'm trying to serve God, not man. I'm not perfect, but I believe that if God is working in my life there should be some evidence of that in the way I behave. Do you not think that is a reasonable expectation? "No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light." Yes there should be evidence of God working in your life, but that evidence is NOT women having to dress like sister workers, or not wearing jewellery or make-up, those things are man made rules.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jun 5, 2015 4:56:09 GMT -5
Roselyn, I don't live my life to impress anyone. I'm trying to serve God, not man. I'm not perfect, but I believe that if God is working in my life there should be some evidence of that in the way I behave. Do you not think that is a reasonable expectation? "No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light." Way to go felicity, we have to let that light shine not only for ourselves within, but for others without, so we can help to guide others through darkness and bring them to God! Maryhig, do you believe the way you dress is going to be a light or guide to others ?
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Post by maryhig on Jun 5, 2015 5:11:03 GMT -5
Way to go felicity, we have to let that light shine not only for ourselves within, but for others without, so we can help to guide others through darkness and bring them to God! Maryhig, do you believe the way you dress is going to be a light or guide to others ? I believe the way you dress is going to show others a picture when you are living a life to please God and trying to be an example. But the way you dress doesn't determine your heart. You can have someone who doesn't know God who has a soft gentle heart and wears really revealing clothes. Jesus mixed with all types of people, including prostitutes, fraudulent tax collectors, all types of people that were classed as "sinners" but he didn't do it himself. I don't see anything wrong, when once you know God, that you choose to dress modestly. I personally think it's a good thing. But it's up to each individual to decide! But I believe it's also wrong to judge someone by what they wear too, they could be kinder and have a better heart than someone dressed as a nun!
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Post by What Hat on Jun 5, 2015 7:06:30 GMT -5
What Hat ~ Personally, here's just a few areas where I feel any religious group crosses boundary lines when the leadership tries to dictate your life for you ~ such as what items you can have in your home and those that are not permitted, your dress and hairstyle, where you can go for entertainment, how to raise your family, and the unkind remarks of the professing Rumor Mill. I have had exposure to all of these areas personally as I'm sure many of the friends and ex-members have experienced the same. Also, one incident that I considered very intrusive in our life was at a time when we had just moved down South from the Northeast and encountered some unexpected set-backs in the area of employment. My husband's job that he had promised to him upon relocating completely vanished due to the recession of 1981. After trying to find employment elsewhere to no avail, we decided it was best that he returned to college for re-training and I returned to work. It was particularly hard, because we had three children 4 years old and under and the youngest was 8 months old when I return to work three months after our move. It appeared the workers didn't like me working with young children and felt I should quit my job in spite of the circumstances that we encountered. They even went as far as to suggest after three months in our new location that it would be better for us to move back North to where we would be better accepted, because we just didn't fit in that well down South in our assigned meeting. I guess the friends considered us too liberal for their ultraconservative area and relayed the same to the workers? As a result, we were visited by the overseer of TN and four (4) other senior workers to deliver their special message over a visit for tea. Needless to say, we both felt very insulted and their visit was more like "rubbing salt in wounds" than anything else. They made my husband feel like he wasn't really making an effort to find work after putting in over 100 applications, criticized him for his predicament, and chided me for not being a stay-at-home mother regardless of the situation we were confronted with. My husband never went back to another meeting after that visit and today is an agnostic/atheist. He lost all interest in God or church after that. Although we never took their advice and continued to do what we felt was best for our family at the time, I was especially shunned by many within the meeting afterwards along with our children. We were treated like "outsiders" on the "inside" for years until I had my own fill of the F&W's and left 14 years later in 1995. Why I stayed around and put up with such an attitude can only be contributed to the workers' fine conditioning regarding being damned if you left the meetings as well as God forsaken. Hopefully, you get my drift from what was shared above that we experienced plenty of interference in our lives that was worker-related without any justification. We never asked the workers or friends for any help or advice, but the workers felt they had a right to dictate our lives for us. That was crossing boundaries lines, IMHO. Wow, I wasn't aware that 2x2's expected women with children to stay at home with them? That's just not practical in all cases. Nice if you can, but not practical. Sorry to hear about your experiences. I would be upset by that also. Many women in the group work going back for quite a few decades. I believe Faune encountered this expectation but it's a commonly held conservative belief, not a doctrine of the church. I heard workers in the 80s express the opposite - that some families required 2 income earners to pay the bills. Faune hasn't answered, but I wonder if she and her husband 'transgressed' in some tangible way, or were the victims of social stigmatisation. Workers can be "used" if they're not careful. The workers have tremendous social power when it comes to moral issues. If two friends or groups of friends have a dispute, tiff, turf battle, or just generally dislike someone or their 'ways' the easiest way to gain the upper hand is to get a worker or workers onside. Not saying that's what happened to Faune specifically because her story doesn't contain enough information. But at first I was looking for a 'smoking gun' - TV under the bed, drinking problem, etc - and sometimes there simply isn't one.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 8:29:33 GMT -5
Roselyn, I don't live my life to impress anyone. I'm trying to serve God, not man. I'm not perfect, but I believe that if God is working in my life there should be some evidence of that in the way I behave. Do you not think that is a reasonable expectation? "No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light." Yes there should be evidence of God working in your life, but that evidence is NOT women having to dress like sister workers, or not wearing jewellery or make-up, those things are man made rules. I wasn't thinking of how I dress when I mentioned 'the way I behave'. I was referring to the spirit I show, the way I treat other people, and also about wanting to have a part in fellowship with those who feel the same way. If those things were lacking then the way I dress would be irrelevant. However, I do believe that the closer we are to God, the less we are concerned about adorning the flesh. If I may quote what Ross posted - "I think we need to decrease in every way possible so that Christ might increase." - this is something that I feel would apply to every aspect of my life, not just the unseen parts. I wouldn't say that modest clothing etc is a man-made rule. We read in Timothy about women adorning themselves in modest apparel, and not wearing jewellery or expensive clothes. Nobody tells me what to wear, but I listen to my conscience. As for dressing like a sister worker, one has to use common sense and be age-appropriate. There are sister workers my age or younger whose clothes I would be happy to borrow, but I don't wear the same clothes as someone old enough to be my grandmother.
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Post by What Hat on Jun 5, 2015 8:58:40 GMT -5
Yes there should be evidence of God working in your life, but that evidence is NOT women having to dress like sister workers, or not wearing jewellery or make-up, those things are man made rules. I wasn't thinking of how I dress when I mentioned 'the way I behave'. I was referring to the spirit I show, the way I treat other people, and also about wanting to have a part in fellowship with those who feel the same way. If those things were lacking then the way I dress would be irrelevant. However, I do believe that the closer we are to God, the less we are concerned about adorning the flesh. If I may quote what Ross posted - "I think we need to decrease in every way possible so that Christ might increase." - this is something that I feel would apply to every aspect of my life, not just the unseen parts. I wouldn't say that modest clothing etc is a man-made rule. We read in Timothy about women adorning themselves in modest apparel, and not wearing jewellery or expensive clothes. Nobody tells me what to wear, but I listen to my conscience. As for dressing like a sister worker, one has to use common sense and be age-appropriate. There are sister workers my age or younger whose clothes I would be happy to borrow, but I don't wear the same clothes as someone old enough to be my grandmother. There's really nothing wrong with a 'standard' or some ad hoc rules or expectations within the friends' group. The problem comes in with people who think those particular rules are God-given and permanent. People who think that way have a lot of difficulty with friends' experience in other countries, with foreign cultures in general, and they tend to not want to know anything about history or the world around them. They engage the world from their own circle working outward. If they drew a picture of Jesus he'd probably look like a local head worker, when in actual fact he most likely looked like a shaggy-haired non-white hippie with an Arab-like countenance.
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Post by withlove on Jun 5, 2015 13:38:59 GMT -5
I wasn't thinking of how I dress when I mentioned 'the way I behave'. I was referring to the spirit I show, the way I treat other people, and also about wanting to have a part in fellowship with those who feel the same way. If those things were lacking then the way I dress would be irrelevant. However, I do believe that the closer we are to God, the less we are concerned about adorning the flesh. If I may quote what Ross posted - "I think we need to decrease in every way possible so that Christ might increase." - this is something that I feel would apply to every aspect of my life, not just the unseen parts. I wouldn't say that modest clothing etc is a man-made rule. We read in Timothy about women adorning themselves in modest apparel, and not wearing jewellery or expensive clothes. Nobody tells me what to wear, but I listen to my conscience. As for dressing like a sister worker, one has to use common sense and be age-appropriate. There are sister workers my age or younger whose clothes I would be happy to borrow, but I don't wear the same clothes as someone old enough to be my grandmother. There's really nothing wrong with a 'standard' or some ad hoc rules or expectations within the friends' group. The problem comes in with people who think those particular rules are God-given and permanent. People who think that way have a lot of difficulty with friends' experience in other countries, with foreign cultures in general, and they tend to not want to know anything about history or the world around them. They engage the world from their own circle working outward. If they drew a picture of Jesus he'd probably look like a local head worker, when in actual fact he most likely looked like a shaggy-haired non-white hippie with an Arab-like countenance. This is interesting...most of you probably have heard it before... the error of the long-haired Jesus Pagan god Serapis (Egyptian Zeus)...said to be adopted by Christians as what Christ looked like, and where the name Jesus derived from.
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Post by snow on Jun 5, 2015 14:24:10 GMT -5
Wow, I wasn't aware that 2x2's expected women with children to stay at home with them? That's just not practical in all cases. Nice if you can, but not practical. Sorry to hear about your experiences. I would be upset by that also. Many women in the group work going back for quite a few decades. I believe Faune encountered this expectation but it's a commonly held conservative belief, not a doctrine of the church. I heard workers in the 80s express the opposite - that some families required 2 income earners to pay the bills. Faune hasn't answered, but I wonder if she and her husband 'transgressed' in some tangible way, or were the victims of social stigmatisation. Workers can be "used" if they're not careful. The workers have tremendous social power when it comes to moral issues. If two friends or groups of friends have a dispute, tiff, turf battle, or just generally dislike someone or their 'ways' the easiest way to gain the upper hand is to get a worker or workers onside. Not saying that's what happened to Faune specifically because her story doesn't contain enough information. But at first I was looking for a 'smoking gun' - TV under the bed, drinking problem, etc - and sometimes there simply isn't one. Okay, because when I was with the group years ago, there were women that worked and I was not aware that they ever got harassed for working. But I was pretty young and wasn't privy to all the politics that may have been going on in the adult world. My mother never worked outside the home, but then neither did my dad because they were farmers, so I have no personal experience with the rules about that.
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Post by What Hat on Jun 5, 2015 18:06:45 GMT -5
There's really nothing wrong with a 'standard' or some ad hoc rules or expectations within the friends' group. The problem comes in with people who think those particular rules are God-given and permanent. People who think that way have a lot of difficulty with friends' experience in other countries, with foreign cultures in general, and they tend to not want to know anything about history or the world around them. They engage the world from their own circle working outward. If they drew a picture of Jesus he'd probably look like a local head worker, when in actual fact he most likely looked like a shaggy-haired non-white hippie with an Arab-like countenance. This is interesting...most of you probably have heard it before... the error of the long-haired Jesus Pagan god Serapis (Egyptian Zeus)...said to be adopted by Christians as what Christ looked like, and where the name Jesus derived from. I only got through 10 paragraphs before my skepticism meter went to 11. Also, I have never seen him depicted like the woolly mammoth, Serapis, above. Samson maybe.
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Post by faune on Jun 5, 2015 18:07:23 GMT -5
What Hat ~ Personally, here's just a few areas where I feel any religious group crosses boundary lines when the leadership tries to dictate your life for you ~ such as what items you can have in your home and those that are not permitted, your dress and hairstyle, where you can go for entertainment, how to raise your family, and the unkind remarks of the professing Rumor Mill. I have had exposure to all of these areas personally as I'm sure many of the friends and ex-members have experienced the same. Also, one incident that I considered very intrusive in our life was at a time when we had just moved down South from the Northeast and encountered some unexpected set-backs in the area of employment. My husband's job that he had promised to him upon relocating completely vanished due to the recession of 1981. After trying to find employment elsewhere to no avail, we decided it was best that he returned to college for re-training and I returned to work. It was particularly hard, because we had three children 4 years old and under and the youngest was 8 months old when I return to work three months after our move. It appeared the workers didn't like me working with young children and felt I should quit my job in spite of the circumstances that we encountered. They even went as far as to suggest after three months in our new location that it would be better for us to move back North to where we would be better accepted, because we just didn't fit in that well down South in our assigned meeting. I guess the friends considered us too liberal for their ultraconservative area and relayed the same to the workers? As a result, we were visited by the overseer of TN and four (4) other senior workers to deliver their special message over a visit for tea. Needless to say, we both felt very insulted and their visit was more like "rubbing salt in wounds" than anything else. They made my husband feel like he wasn't really making an effort to find work after putting in over 100 applications, criticized him for his predicament, and chided me for not being a stay-at-home mother regardless of the situation we were confronted with. My husband never went back to another meeting after that visit and today is an agnostic/atheist. He lost all interest in God or church after that. Although we never took their advice and continued to do what we felt was best for our family at the time, I was especially shunned by many within the meeting afterwards along with our children. We were treated like "outsiders" on the "inside" for years until I had my own fill of the F&W's and left 14 years later in 1995. Why I stayed around and put up with such an attitude can only be contributed to the workers' fine conditioning regarding being damned if you left the meetings as well as God forsaken. Hopefully, you get my drift from what was shared above that we experienced plenty of interference in our lives that was worker-related without any justification. We never asked the workers or friends for any help or advice, but the workers felt they had a right to dictate our lives for us. That was crossing boundaries lines, IMHO. Faune, thanks for this answer which provides some insight. I don't wish to pry too much into what is a delicate and personal situation, but when you say that they felt you were too liberal and not fitting in - was there anything specific in their view, or do you think that the viewpoint was just unfair and really "out of thin air". I know that the latter does happen .. for example, Al van der Myden's story which is on the record here, but also others with which I'm acquainted. What Hat ~ I never asked the workers to spell out why they felt we would "fit in" better back where we came from, but just assumed they considered us Yankees from the North and perhaps too liberal for the ultra conservative area we had moved to in July 1981. However, this shunning was only something I experienced within the 2x2's and not on the outside of the group, where people were a lot more accepting and friendly. However, on the bright side, I made some good Christian friends on the outside of the fold and enjoy their friendship still today, who weren't so exclusive.
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Post by What Hat on Jun 5, 2015 18:09:31 GMT -5
Many women in the group work going back for quite a few decades. I believe Faune encountered this expectation but it's a commonly held conservative belief, not a doctrine of the church. I heard workers in the 80s express the opposite - that some families required 2 income earners to pay the bills. Faune hasn't answered, but I wonder if she and her husband 'transgressed' in some tangible way, or were the victims of social stigmatisation. Workers can be "used" if they're not careful. The workers have tremendous social power when it comes to moral issues. If two friends or groups of friends have a dispute, tiff, turf battle, or just generally dislike someone or their 'ways' the easiest way to gain the upper hand is to get a worker or workers onside. Not saying that's what happened to Faune specifically because her story doesn't contain enough information. But at first I was looking for a 'smoking gun' - TV under the bed, drinking problem, etc - and sometimes there simply isn't one. Okay, because when I was with the group years ago, there were women that worked and I was not aware that they ever got harassed for working. But I was pretty young and wasn't privy to all the politics that may have been going on in the adult world. My mother never worked outside the home, but then neither did my dad because they were farmers, so I have no personal experience with the rules about that. I have no doubt faune was hassled about it, but it's not a point of doctrine, generally.
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Post by Greg on Jun 5, 2015 18:12:33 GMT -5
I have no doubt faune was hassled about it, but it's not a point of doctrine, generally. Nothing is, generally. Except maybe the meetings and ministry. Maybe.
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