|
Post by faune on May 16, 2015 12:08:36 GMT -5
I realize some folks may get put off by using the term "Bible cult" to define the 2x2's. However, the thing to remember is that we are looking at BEHAVIORS here and not theology. However, it's often the case that the teachings of these cultish groups are also distorted to suit their own purpose from what is found in scripture. Here's an article to give you some idea of what these BEHAVIORAL TRAITS encompass so as you can see the correlation here between the 2x2's and other groups similar to them. Any comments as to which characteristics stand out the most to you from this list? www.culthelp.info/index.php…
|
|
|
Post by faune on May 16, 2015 14:38:00 GMT -5
Here's the description given of common characteristics found within any religious cult. Do you see anything on this list that you can relate to personally? I believe the last item on this list relating to the leadership within such groups sums it up quite well. ~ "Adherents to these groups fail to realize that they are in a cult and under mind control. Often the leaders are the most brainwashed of all." ~
WHAT RELIGIOUS CULTS HAVE IN COMMON:
•Their way is the only way. A "we alone are right" mentality.
•Their vague doctrine is to be accepted but not necessarily understood.
•Members are conformed by the group not transformed by God.
•They reject the One Triune God--the Christian belief in God as God the Father, God the Son (Jesus - John 1:1, 1:14), and God the Holy Spirit. As a result they worship "another" Jesus.
•Only their group knows and has the truth. They claim a "special revelation."
•Not even scripture is as powerful as the group's unwritten rules and traditions.
•Members distrust themselves but trust completely in the group's beliefs and leaders.
•Members are secretive about what goes on "inside" and "things" get protected behind walls of silence.
•Living a double life is common.
•A flaw in the group is viewed as a flaw in the member who sees it.
•Leaders brush off questions they don't have scriptural answers for.
•Authoritarian leaders reinforce blind obedience to the groups "standards."
•Individual interpretation or deviation is not allowed.
•There is a need to emulate the leaders. The group may have similar mannerisms, clothing styles, hair styles, modes of speech and attitudes.
•Any attack on the group simply verifies the group's importance to the members.
•Members who faithfully follow the group's beliefs and traditions are considered special, chosen, hearty "saints."
•There is no means by which a member can appeal a decision. The followers have no rights. Dissidents are disfellowshipped.
•Salvation by Grace is not preached. (Eph.2:8,9)
•Failing to remain faithful to the group is viewed as failing God or mankind.
•There is a feeling of humble superiority among the members.
•Members accept a counterfeit peace, joy and unity which, in reality, doesn't exit.
•Behavior is legislated. Obedience to the leaders is mandatory.
•Individuality is viewed as bad and conformity within the group is good. There is a dependence on the group.
•Leaders encourage members to work and produce "fruit", putting "their" people back under the law, from which Christ died to set us free.
•Lavish attention and love is shown to new or prospective members. Later, love is conditional; dependent on a member's good performance.
•There is an unwritten rule that members must not discuss any negative feelings they may have about the group.
•Members shun ex-members.
•There is instilled in the members a fear of "losing out", of suffering a lost eternity, should they ever leave the group.
•Members alternate between happiness at being chosen to know the "truth", and the crushing weight of guilt, fear and shame for "not measuring up."
•Adherents to these groups fail to realize that they are in a cult and under mind control. Often the leaders are the most brainwashed of all.
|
|
|
Post by faune on May 16, 2015 14:42:08 GMT -5
Here's how one ex-member described her conception of the 2x2's as "becoming like CLONES walking around." I believe she was referring to the issue of conformity to the workers' dress code and deemed acceptable attire as well as group speech identifying the members. Honestly, the description below reminded me of the old cult classic, "The Stepford Wives" in which folks are transformed into robots to uphold the leadership's ideal of perfection. ~
"The 2x2's is not a CULT like Heavenly Gate where people willingly lay down to die for what they believe in. The 2x2 CULT causes "EMOTIONAL SUICIDE!" We are forced to commit suicide to who we really are! We become "clones" walking around!!! 2/98 C. Winberg"
Here are a few behavior traits that may have contributed to her conception of the 2x2's. ~
"•A flaw in the group is viewed as a flaw in the member who sees it.
•Leaders brush off questions they don't have scriptural answers for.
•Authoritarian leaders reinforce blind obedience to the groups "standards."
•Individual interpretation or deviation is not allowed.
•There is a need to emulate the leaders. The group may have similar mannerisms, clothing styles, hair styles, modes of speech and attitudes.
•Any attack on the group simply verifies the group's importance to the members."
|
|
|
Post by faune on May 16, 2015 14:45:29 GMT -5
Here are just a few items on this list that really stood out to me in relationship to the 2x2's and their practices. It's no wonder that one ex-member viewed herself as a "CLONE" of the workers and their system in her remark shared previously. "•There is a need to emulate the leaders. The group may have similar mannerisms, clothing styles, hair styles, modes of speech and attitudes.
•Any attack on the group simply verifies the group's importance to the members.
•Members who faithfully follow the group's beliefs and traditions are considered special, chosen, hearty "saints."
•There is no means by which a member can appeal a decision. The followers have no rights. Dissidents are disfellowshipped.
•Salvation by Grace is not preached. (Eph.2:8,9)
•Failing to remain faithful to the group is viewed as failing God or mankind.
•There is a feeling of humble superiority among the members.
•Members accept a counterfeit peace, joy and unity which, in reality, doesn't exit.
•Behavior is legislated. Obedience to the leaders is mandatory."
|
|
|
Post by snow on May 16, 2015 15:36:03 GMT -5
They have a page with the following titles on it specifically for the 2x2/Cooneyites. I wonder who Jan is and how she is associated with the 2x2's? For me, I recognize that there are problems with the group, but I don't see them as a cult. As stated on Elizabeth's thread, many organizations have cult like behaviors. But when we label a group to be a cult we have to be very careful because the most common thought when we use the 'cult' word is Jonestown and Waco. In that way it does not do justice to the group called the 2x2's imo. Some of the above behaviors listed that were said to not be about statements of faith because of bible learning, are definitely about bible interpretation. In your second post, statements 3 and 4 are definitely based on different bible interpretation. They are the basis of why Irvine Grey called them a 'dangerous cult'. www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=3&id=14&Itemid=8COONEYITES (NAMELESS HOUSE CHURCH OR 2X2S) Quotes from Workers Ten Things the Workers Don't Want You to Investigate A Short History Timeline for "the Truth" Who Are the Two-by-Twos? - Distinguishing Characteristics There are Different Types of Cultic Groups. The Church With No Name Four Aspects of Mind Control (with 2x2 note) A LETTER TO THE FRIENDS ~ SUMMER 1997 * Incorporation Papers (1995 Alberta, Canada) * George Walker's Statement to the U.S. Government (1942) Facts You Should Know About the Christian Convention Church Their Basic Beliefs The Cooneyites
|
|
|
Post by fixit on May 16, 2015 16:27:08 GMT -5
Here's the description given of common characteristics found within any religious cult. Do you see anything on this list that you can relate to personally? I believe the last item on this list relating to the leadership within such groups sums it up quite well. ~ "Adherents to these groups fail to realize that they are in a cult and under mind control. Often the leaders are the most brainwashed of all." ~ WHAT RELIGIOUS CULTS HAVE IN COMMON: •Their way is the only way. A "we alone are right" mentality. •Their vague doctrine is to be accepted but not necessarily understood. •Members are conformed by the group not transformed by God. •They reject the One Triune God--the Christian belief in God as God the Father, God the Son (Jesus - John 1:1, 1:14), and God the Holy Spirit. As a result they worship "another" Jesus. Faune, this is a very poor definition of "cult". It's simply a bunch of Christians bad-mouthing other groups. Let's start with the first four points above and apply it to Trinitarians. If you take off your Trinitarian glasses, and try to have an open mind without a Trinitarian filter, you'll understand how hypocritical the anti-cult movement is! Atheists have far more right to label a group as a cult, yet they are more restrained in their condemnation of the 2x2 church. Go figure!
|
|
|
Post by faune on May 16, 2015 20:00:34 GMT -5
Here's the description given of common characteristics found within any religious cult. Do you see anything on this list that you can relate to personally? I believe the last item on this list relating to the leadership within such groups sums it up quite well. ~ "Adherents to these groups fail to realize that they are in a cult and under mind control. Often the leaders are the most brainwashed of all." ~ WHAT RELIGIOUS CULTS HAVE IN COMMON: •Their way is the only way. A "we alone are right" mentality. •Their vague doctrine is to be accepted but not necessarily understood. •Members are conformed by the group not transformed by God. •They reject the One Triune God--the Christian belief in God as God the Father, God the Son (Jesus - John 1:1, 1:14), and God the Holy Spirit. As a result they worship "another" Jesus. Faune, this is a very poor definition of "cult". It's simply a bunch of Christians bad-mouthing other groups. Let's start with the first four points above and apply it to Trinitarians. If you take off your Trinitarian glasses, and try to have an open mind without a Trinitarian filter, you'll understand how hypocritical the anti-cult movement is! Atheists have far more right to label a group as a cult, yet they are more restrained in their condemnation of the 2x2 church. Go figure! Fixit ~ I do understand how some folks don't like the label of cult, but this info. was taken from a Cult Awareness Site that has a long list of groups considered Bible cults who match the criteria in the list given in my opening paragraph. In your own personal opinion, would say that the 2x2's don't fit ANY of this criteria given in their attitudes displayed? If so, than perhaps the authors of this site are mistaken? However, I recognized a number of behavioral traits on this list that I remember quite well from my 30 years of professing, which also contributed to my exit from the group. Also, I might note that the 2x2's are included in this listing of Bible-based Cults & Isms within in the Introduction along with the Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, and a few others. You can also find the 2x2's (aka. Cooneyites or No-name Church) just above the Exclusive Brethern in this list below. www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=3&Itemid=8
|
|
|
Post by faune on May 16, 2015 20:07:31 GMT -5
Snow ~ To answer your question, Jan Groenveld was never associated with the 2x2's, but was exposed to the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses and was the person who did a lot of research on cults and started this awareness site, who is now deceased. However, others carry on her work and keep the site up-to-date. So, if the listing of general cultish behaviors looked familiar to you, it's a composite of what you can find in most Bible-based cults or aberrant groups who claim the "one and only" status. www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2&Itemid=3 About Jan
|
|
|
Post by faune on May 16, 2015 20:12:39 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by faune on May 16, 2015 20:18:03 GMT -5
Here's the designated Home-page for Bible-based cults, although this site covers a number of different areas relating to spiritually abusive groups. So, as you can see from my earlier list, the behavioral traits described pertained to all these different religious groups and not just the 2x2's, although they are also included on the complete list of these Bible-based cults and the Introduction to this segment of the site. Here is the Home-page of this group so as you can see all the areas covered on this Cult Awareness Information site. www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=3&Itemid=8 (Bible Based Cults & Isms)
|
|
|
Post by fixit on May 16, 2015 20:20:17 GMT -5
Faune, this is a very poor definition of "cult". It's simply a bunch of Christians bad-mouthing other groups. Let's start with the first four points above and apply it to Trinitarians. If you take off your Trinitarian glasses, and try to have an open mind without a Trinitarian filter, you'll understand how hypocritical the anti-cult movement is! Atheists have far more right to label a group as a cult, yet they are more restrained in their condemnation of the 2x2 church. Go figure! Fixit ~ I do understand how some folks don't like the label o cult, but this info. was taken from a Cult Awareness Site that has a long list of groups considered Bible cults who match the criteria in the list given in my opening paragraph. In your own personal opinion, would say that the 2x2's don't fit ANY of this criteria given in their attitudes displayed? If so, than perhaps the authors of this site are mistaken? However, I recognized a number of behavioral traits on this list that I remember qu well from my 30 years of professing, which also contributed to my exit from the group. Yes, I think the authors of that list got it wrong. If a group interprets the Bible differently, that in itself doesn't make it a cult.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on May 16, 2015 20:38:49 GMT -5
Fixit ~ I do understand how some folks don't like the label o cult, but this info. was taken from a Cult Awareness Site that has a long list of groups considered Bible cults who match the criteria in the list given in my opening paragraph. In your own personal opinion, would say that the 2x2's don't fit ANY of this criteria given in their attitudes displayed? If so, than perhaps the authors of this site are mistaken? However, I recognized a number of behavioral traits on this list that I remember qu well from my 30 years of professing, which also contributed to my exit from the group. Yes, I think the authors of that list got it wrong. If a group interprets the Bible differently, that in itself doesn't make it a cult. Fixit , I agree.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on May 16, 2015 21:01:30 GMT -5
Faune, the website you're referencing contradicts itself:
Our definition of a cult and/or spiritual abuse is based on behaviour and not theology (which is actually the field of apologetics). However, we must of necessity include Bible-based or doctrinal discussions when dealing with the bible-based cults because their interpretation of the bible is part of the controlling factor.
To have any credibility with me they would need to refrain from bible-bashing altogether.
They condemn exclusivity, while insisting on exclusivity (according to their interpretation of the Bible).
|
|
|
Post by fixit on May 16, 2015 21:18:32 GMT -5
Here's a better checklist:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 22:56:13 GMT -5
you guys are missing some of the more important things of a cult...
1. a central figure in charge of everything and claims of being a messiah/Jesus/God 2. promote weird sexual practices I.E adultery, fornication, multiple marriages and CSA 3. total control of everyones finances 4. fascination with firearms 5. anti government ideology 6. live on a compound or commune
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on May 16, 2015 23:06:08 GMT -5
Isn't this an interesting thread!
If it keeps going we will likely to have as many definitions of what a cult is as there are Christian denominations!
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 16, 2015 23:48:25 GMT -5
Hey I suppose you could look at it a different way, maybe it's the other way round. And the cults are religions who
Have images of heaven and earth, like statues of people or Jesus, when the bible tells you not to.
Takes money, when Jesus said not to. And taking large salaries for doing Gods work! Were supposed to be unprofitable servants!
Building up huge churches and temples when Jesus said this is wrong! And that your body is the temple of God!
Having leaders dressed in ornate clothing and their congregation bowing down to them or setting them up on high. And they are then thinking they are right and everyone else is wrong! When Jesus taught us to be humble!
Having lots of money in the bank in a church account, when there's poor in the world.
Locking the doors of churches when poor people are outside!
Having images of Gold and silver.
Putting the love of man before the love if God, changing the meanings of the bible to suit their religion saying wrong is right so the world will love them whilst denying the laws of God, to keep their congregation and governments of their country happy!
Saying "God the son" and "God the holy ghost" when it isn't in the bible! Along with many other traditions that aren't biblical!
I wonder which one really is the cult! Just because it's followed by millions, doesn't make it right!
|
|
|
Post by withlove on May 17, 2015 0:55:42 GMT -5
Steve Hassan's BITE Model of Mind Control
Behavior, Information, Thought and Emotion control...it's copywrited so I won't past. The Thought and Emotional sections are most relevant I think. Damage to someone's mind, spirit, ability to think and feel normally...to me is as bad as if not worse than damage to a physical body. Much more subtle and not shockingly horrific...but still destructive in important ways. That's why I think 2x2s are a cult.
|
|
|
Post by rational on May 17, 2015 1:09:23 GMT -5
The first question I had was why someone would put such a list together and the second question was why anyone would post it. These traits are found within all religious cults? That would mean there are no cults outside of christianity. Sounds like one person's religion is another person's cult. Here's the description given of common characteristics found within any religious cult. Do you see anything on this list that you can relate to personally? I believe the last item on this list relating to the leadership within such groups sums it up quite well. ~ "Adherents to these groups fail to realize that they are in a cult and under mind control. Often the leaders are the most brainwashed of all." ~ WHAT RELIGIOUS CULTS HAVE IN COMMON: •Their way is the only way. A "we alone are right" mentality. •Their vague doctrine is to be accepted but not necessarily understood. •Members are conformed by the group not transformed by God. •They reject the One Triune God--the Christian belief in God as God the Father, God the Son (Jesus - John 1:1, 1:14), and God the Holy Spirit. As a result they worship "another" Jesus. •Only their group knows and has the truth. They claim a "special revelation." •Not even scripture is as powerful as the group's unwritten rules and traditions. •Members distrust themselves but trust completely in the group's beliefs and leaders. •Members are secretive about what goes on "inside" and "things" get protected behind walls of silence. •Living a double life is common. •A flaw in the group is viewed as a flaw in the member who sees it. •Leaders brush off questions they don't have scriptural answers for. •Authoritarian leaders reinforce blind obedience to the groups "standards." •Individual interpretation or deviation is not allowed. •There is a need to emulate the leaders. The group may have similar mannerisms, clothing styles, hair styles, modes of speech and attitudes. •Any attack on the group simply verifies the group's importance to the members. •Members who faithfully follow the group's beliefs and traditions are considered special, chosen, hearty "saints." •There is no means by which a member can appeal a decision. The followers have no rights. Dissidents are disfellowshipped. •Salvation by Grace is not preached. (Eph.2:8,9) •Failing to remain faithful to the group is viewed as failing God or mankind. •There is a feeling of humble superiority among the members. •Members accept a counterfeit peace, joy and unity which, in reality, doesn't exit. •Behavior is legislated. Obedience to the leaders is mandatory. •Individuality is viewed as bad and conformity within the group is good. There is a dependence on the group. •Leaders encourage members to work and produce "fruit", putting "their" people back under the law, from which Christ died to set us free. •Lavish attention and love is shown to new or prospective members. Later, love is conditional; dependent on a member's good performance. •There is an unwritten rule that members must not discuss any negative feelings they may have about the group. •Members shun ex-members. •There is instilled in the members a fear of "losing out", of suffering a lost eternity, should they ever leave the group. •Members alternate between happiness at being chosen to know the "truth", and the crushing weight of guilt, fear and shame for "not measuring up." •Adherents to these groups fail to realize that they are in a cult and under mind control. Often the leaders are the most brainwashed of all.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 17, 2015 1:43:00 GMT -5
Saying "God the son" and "God the holy ghost" when it isn't in the bible! Along with many other traditions that aren't biblical! I wonder which one really is the cult! Just because it's followed by millions, doesn't make it right! The Bible are books which selected or put it together by a bunch of cardinals, priests, Pope of RCC in the 3rd century... Many books were left out... there were Christians who received clearer understanding with terminologies to describe the Godhead which came after the Bible put together. So, any new revelation came after the Bible put together by the RCC you call isn't Biblical?
We have many traditions such as conventions, special meetings, gospel meetings, and different church denominations have church retreat, church camps, etc.. today which are NOT in the Bible, so according to you isn't Biblical? So, should we discard all of these things?
Your church isn't Biblical because you folks don't have an apostolic Itinerant preachers/apostles ministry among your group like in the Bible. Do you consider your group is a Cult?
I believe the bible has exactly in it what God wants in there. There is no need to have anymore "added on" there is enough to able to show us how to follow Jesus and live as God wants us to! And there's also a lot in there telling us how not to live, and many mainstream religions are not following the way Jesus taught! As for the way we believe, it's simple! Love the lord our God with all our heart mind, soul and strength and our neighbours as ourselves and follow Jesus. By the way Nathan, my uncle was a preacher! He preached in the open air in Liverpool. He lived in fields and had no home for a long time! He was a strong man of God! And he taught us well. And we talk to whomever we meet through our day. In my heart God comes first. If i get a chance, I speak to whoever and wherever I can. We don't call each other apostles or ministers etc. We are humble people. We are equal. But our strengths in God are different! And the stronger ones are elders. They don't need a name to show they are elders, you can tell by the strength of Gods spirit within them when they speak! We don't need to be a big religion to have Gods spirit with us. Jesus said "where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name there will I be in the midst!"
|
|
|
Post by Lee on May 17, 2015 2:05:39 GMT -5
Did Jesus introduce certain fundamental ideas, and the relationship between those ideas and health? If you say no, you belong to a cult. If you say yes you are normal, possibly weird, but normal.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 17, 2015 2:06:50 GMT -5
I believe the bible has exactly in it what God wants in there. There is no need to have anymore "added on" there is enough to able to show us how to follow Jesus and live as God wants us to! And there's also a lot in there telling us how not to live, and many mainstream religions are not following the way Jesus taught! As for the way we believe, it's simple! Love the lord our God with all our heart mind, soul and strength and our neighbours as ourselves and follow Jesus. By the way Nathan, my uncle was a preacher! He preached in the open air in Liverpool. He lived in fields and had no home for a long time! He was a strong man of God! And he taught us well. And we talk to whomever we meet through our day. In my heart God comes first. If i get a chance, I speak to whoever and wherever I can. We don't call each other apostles or ministers etc. We are humble people. We are equal. But our strengths in God are different! And the stronger ones are elders. They don't need a name to show they are elders, you can tell by the strength of Gods spirit within them when they speak! We don't need to be a big religion to have Gods spirit with us. Jesus said "where 2 or 3 are gathered in my name there will I be in the midst!" Did your uncle ever had a companion? or he just preached on his own? Early on, i don't know. But he preached in Liverpool on his own and his companion was Christ in his heart! So he never really preached on his own!
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 17, 2015 3:09:22 GMT -5
Early on, i don't know. But he preached in Liverpool on his own and his companion was Christ in his heart! So he never really preached on his own! Thanks, for sharing your about your group with us. In the beginning Edward Cooney had younger companions to be with him in your group. Why don't your preachers today have companion like Peter and John? Paul and Barnabas? Paul and Timothy? Did they ever explain to you why your preacher do NOT have companion today?As long as Christ is with you, then your not alone! As I said we speak to whomever we come across. God was with Peter when he went to the house of Cornelius, and he went alone after God spoke to him in a vision. If you have a companion to go out with then that's good! But you can speak to others anywhere and everywhere who you meet in your daily life. I spoke to 2 Mormons one day After they knocked on my door. They came to visit once a week for many months until the elder one went home to Utah. And we ended up having some really good talks about God! I told him what I believed in, and he kept coming back even though I told them I would never convert to being a morman but they kept coming and I kept talking the oldest one liked what I was saying and they kept coming week after week. I wasn't always with people should I have spoken to them or waited until I had someone with me? Jesus said we should always be ready. Whether we're are alone or with a companion it doesn't matter. What matters is that we walk the right way, and talk when needed. We should speak when the spirit prompts us is to speak and to love and pray to God for help and strength to always carry on! And for him to open our mouths when needed. We are never alone when God and Christ are with us!
|
|
|
Post by Mary on May 17, 2015 4:48:17 GMT -5
I understand you do not have preachers maryhig? Those in your meeting just you talk to people about Jesus in your daily life - is that right? There was Edward and then your uncle. No preachers as such since?
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 17, 2015 5:11:02 GMT -5
I understand you do not have preachers maryhig? Those in your meeting just you talk to people about Jesus in your daily life - is that right? There was Edward and then your uncle. No preachers as such since? No, no preachers as such. But that doesn't mean no one talks in or meeting. There are strong people in our meeting. It's just that they don't go out preaching. But they talk to anyone when they get a chance to that they meet. That doesn't make us a cult!
|
|
|
Post by Mary on May 17, 2015 5:22:08 GMT -5
No it does not make you a cult. Check out the charasteristics of a cult in the 2nd post on this thread.
|
|
|
Post by faune on May 17, 2015 9:43:22 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on May 17, 2015 10:51:06 GMT -5
Maryh wrote: As long as Christ is with you, then your not alone! As I said we speak to whomever we come across. God was with Peter when he went to the house of Cornelius, and he went alone after God spoke to him in a vision. ~~ Peter did NOT go alone to the house of Cornelius but brought other Jews believers with him as Witnesses why he went to the A Gentile's home. Acts 10:45 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.If you have a companion to go out with then that's good! But you can speak to others anywhere and everywhere who you meet in your daily life. ~~ I agree with you, that is the responsibility of the apostles and believers of Jesus as Living Witnesses preaching, sharing the gospel of Christ(Acts 1:8). We read in Acts 8:4 the Church/Assembly of believers in Christ went every preaching.I spoke to 2 Mormons one day After they knocked on my door. They came to visit once a week for many months until the elder one went home to Utah. And we ended up having some really good talks about God! I told him what I believed in, and he kept coming back even though I told them I would never convert to being a Morman but they kept coming and I kept talking the oldest one liked what I was saying and they kept coming week after week. I wasn't always with people should I have spoken to them or waited until I had someone with me? Jesus said we should always be ready. Whether we're are alone or with a companion it doesn't matter. What matters is that we walk the right way, and talk when needed. We should speak when the spirit prompts us is to speak and to love and pray to God for help and strength to always carry on! And for him to open our mouths when needed. We are never alone when God and Christ are with us! ~~ The purpose of the apostles/workers going in pairs like Jesus with his 12 and 70 were to teach them to be preachers, evangelist to all nations, pastors feeding, guiding and protecting the lambs and sheep/assembly of God. Jesus said to Peter, "Feed my lambs and sheep!". Another important reason is to train, teach others young men to become preachers, teachers, pastor so they can carry on to torch to the next generation.
Paul wrote to Timothy his younger co-worker in the work of the gospel II Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
We read in Acts 14 it was the apostles appointed the church elders in every city! Paul gave Timothy, and Titus a list of qualification for the believers to become bishops/church elder and Deacons back up church elder in case the bishops/church elders pass on or relieved of his duty for some reasons.
Then the apostles/workers were to teach and anoint the believers with preaching, teaching skill/gifts, and pastors/church elders caring the lambs and sheep, so they too can become skillful living Witnesses to all nations for Jesus.
Eph. 4:11-15 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. ~~ There are two callings apostles and saints/believers in the New Testament Church... Both are Living Witnesses for Jesus with the gospel. Paul wrote in Romans 1:1,7. We read the saints preaching alone such as Stephen, Philip the evangelist, or as couple husband and wife (church elders) team Aquila and Prisilla helping Apollo in knowing the way of Jesus more correctly in the synagogue. 1) Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God. 2) Verse 7. To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Maryh, it seemed Edward Cooney (ex-2x2 worker) tried to follow the 2x2 apostolic ministry by having younger companions with him in the beginning but somehow it didn't work out and he was alone as a worker until hid death in 1960s?. After Edward's death your church has no one to pass on the torch of apostolic ministry to the next generation so it lost out. Your church has no apostolic ministry but believers ministry ONLY, and that is not according to the teaching of Jesus or the apostles.
Your Cooneyites church has ONLY one calling... The ministry of believers/saints! That is NOT according to the teaching of Jesus or the apostles. I Cor. 28 God has set some in the church FIRST apostles, secondarily prophets, and thirdly teachers... Nathan, sometimes you sound so self-righteous! Who are you to judge us? How do you know who we talk to or who we are teaching? My uncle may have gone out on his own, but none of us would have known God of it wasn't for him, also we all talk to others and our own families! We were reading revelation 1 this morning in the meeting. And John was sent on his own to the churches. So some have gone out on their own! You sound very judgemental Nathan. You don't even know us. You've got no right to judge us!
|
|