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Post by snow on May 28, 2015 14:40:21 GMT -5
If you really think about how things work, everyone is thought to be going to hell. If you are a Muslim you believe everyone who isn't a Muslim is going to hell. If you are a Christian you believe whoever is not a Christian is going to hell. Even within the boundaries of Christianity and Islam there are fringe groups that are also going to hell because they don't believe what some of the others in their religion believe. It's anyone's guess who is actually right about all this, if anyone. There was a South Park episode making light of this once. I believe they decided it was the Mormons who are right Well there you go! They believe we become gods when we die and will get a planet all to ourselves that we can populate with our earth/live long partner who becomes a perpetually pregnant goddess? Who dreams this stuff up I have to wonder?
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Post by snow on May 28, 2015 14:43:57 GMT -5
What Hat ~ As far as boundaries go, the workers in my past, especially during my younger years, were always meddling and giving their advice as to dress, hair, behavior. You name it, they dictated your life for you! That's the type of boundaries I'm talking about here. Maybe this has let up over the years in certain places, but I doubt it has gone away completely? Friends are still restricted in these areas for appearance sake of the Perfect Way. Honestly, the 2x2's reminds me of one big masquerade party with folks wearing different masks in order to fit into the mold of the workers. I'm sure that anybody who has professed for years understand where I'm coming from here? This type of stuff doesn't happen in my present church nor did I see it demonstrated in other churches I've visited over the years. People are left to make their own decisions regarding their personal lives, including what they have in their homes and their dress and hair styles. That's the type of MICROMANAGING we are talking about here that speaks of cultish behaviors along with denial of conditions, silencing dissent, and excommunicating those who don't follow the leader! A distortion of the gospel message of Christ is usually also part of the package in these groups who usually claim to be the "one and only way of salvation" and deem everybody outside their group as being "deceived" and on their way to Hell. The workers may from time to time provide some guilt sermons to influence people, but they ultimately have no power to enforce boundaries. It's up to the individual (or the parents, when talking about children) to decide how strict they feel their boundaries should be. Most people will still put on a good show when they're around the workers (I'm assuming just to keep the peace, or to have good "standing" in the church), but otherwise lead pretty normal and unhindered "clean" lives. But should they have to do that to keep the peace? Isn't having to be dishonest a negative aspect of having to keep the peace? One reason for leaving was it felt like I was being a hypocrite and I didn't want to be anymore. Then I had to still live two lives because I was a minor when I left and lived at home. I had to go to meeting until I graduated and left home. I still felt like a hypocrite because you're right, I had to be something I wasn't to get along with the people I was forced to associate with and my parents. That shouldn't be a requirement I don't think. Being a hypocrite in order to get along, I mean.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 14:55:50 GMT -5
What Hat ~ As far as boundaries go, the workers in my past, especially during my younger years, were always meddling and giving their advice as to dress, hair, behavior. You name it, they dictated your life for you! That's the type of boundaries I'm talking about here. Maybe this has let up over the years in certain places, but I doubt it has gone away completely? Friends are still restricted in these areas for appearance sake of the Perfect Way. Honestly, the 2x2's reminds me of one big masquerade party with folks wearing different masks in order to fit into the mold of the workers. I'm sure that anybody who has professed for years understand where I'm coming from here? This type of stuff doesn't happen in my present church nor did I see it demonstrated in other churches I've visited over the years. People are left to make their own decisions regarding their personal lives, including what they have in their homes and their dress and hair styles. That's the type of MICROMANAGING we are talking about here that speaks of cultish behaviors along with denial of conditions, silencing dissent, and excommunicating those who don't follow the leader! A distortion of the gospel message of Christ is usually also part of the package in these groups who usually claim to be the "one and only way of salvation" and deem everybody outside their group as being "deceived" and on their way to Hell. The workers may from time to time provide some guilt sermons to influence people, but they ultimately have no power to enforce boundaries. It's up to the individual (or the parents, when talking about children) to decide how strict they feel their boundaries should be. Most people will still put on a good show when they're around the workers (I'm assuming just to keep the peace, or to have good "standing" in the church), but otherwise lead pretty normal and unhindered "clean" lives. Why would anyone need to put on a show when they're around the workers? That would be dishonest, and hypocritical. Do you think God is only watching when the workers come to visit? I'd prefer to be seen just as I am, warts and all, if anyone doesn't like it they're free to say so.
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Post by snow on May 28, 2015 15:11:26 GMT -5
The workers may from time to time provide some guilt sermons to influence people, but they ultimately have no power to enforce boundaries. It's up to the individual (or the parents, when talking about children) to decide how strict they feel their boundaries should be. Most people will still put on a good show when they're around the workers (I'm assuming just to keep the peace, or to have good "standing" in the church), but otherwise lead pretty normal and unhindered "clean" lives. Why would anyone need to put on a show when they're around the workers? That would be dishonest, and hypocritical. Do you think God is only watching when the workers come to visit? I'd prefer to be seen just as I am, warts and all, if anyone doesn't like it they're free to say so. That's how it should be and cudos to you that you don't put on a show. Doesn't work that way for all of the friends though from what I have seen on here anyway.
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Post by snow on May 28, 2015 16:42:08 GMT -5
But should they have to do that to keep the peace? Isn't having to be dishonest a negative aspect of having to keep the peace? One reason for leaving was it felt like I was being a hypocrite and I didn't want to be anymore. Then I had to still live two lives because I was a minor when I left and lived at home. I had to go to meeting until I graduated and left home. I still felt like a hypocrite because you're right, I had to be something I wasn't to get along with the people I was forced to associate with and my parents. That shouldn't be a requirement I don't think. Being a hypocrite in order to get along, I mean. I would agree they shouldn't have to. Though it's not like they're having to gather up all their bongs and vodka bottles and playboys to hide from them...more like the women putting on skirts when they normally wear pants, not talking about TV shows or movies around the workers, etc. In some ways hypocritical, yes, in other ways...don't people often act a little more proper and/or cater to their house guests a bit? And there's plenty of middle-aged to older people that don't have to change a thing...it's just how they live. Probably would be more the younger generation that has to "put on a show", as they are in the unenviable spot between living how they want and how some workers might think is best. It's often easier to just be a worker-pleaser when you have to, and live how you want the rest of the time, as opposed to having to worry about fracturing relationships and all the drama that can come with denouncing the workers. Or, maybe it's just me. I don't get a whole lot of inspiration from meetings, but at this point it's just easier to go along with the flow (though I try not to lie and keep my testimonies mostly in line with what I actually believe without offending people) and keep my life enjoyable, rather than deal with all the problems that would come from throwing up the proverbial middle finger. Yes I imagine there are some older folks that don't have to change anything. I think the younger generation is starting to see the fraying ends, not only in the Truth, but many other churches and religions also. I read something today about a survey taken of grade 12 students and 75 percent didn't think religion was important in their lives. www.rawstory.com/2015/05/teens-are-fleeing-religion-like-never-before-massive-new-study-exposes-religions-decline/
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Post by withlove on May 28, 2015 19:18:15 GMT -5
The workers may from time to time provide some guilt sermons to influence people, but they ultimately have no power to enforce boundaries. It's up to the individual (or the parents, when talking about children) to decide how strict they feel their boundaries should be. Most people will still put on a good show when they're around the workers (I'm assuming just to keep the peace, or to have good "standing" in the church), but otherwise lead pretty normal and unhindered "clean" lives. They have a lot of power, really. 1. Guilt 2. Behavior is different to keep peace 3. Behavior is different to have good standing 4. Feeling you can't or would rather not leave because of the repercussions (you reference in lower post) A calm conscience, peace, and being accepted as a member in good standing are three really big things. People can deny it, but if they actually experience the loss of any of those things, they feel bad or worse. It might not feel like such a big deal to have to make certain concessions while you live an otherwise free life, especially if you used to be entirely in line with the "rules" and now feel freedom in only toeing certain rules at certain times. Feeling that it's easier to stay in a church that doesn't inspire you because of the problems leaving would cause...I have no judgement here...I get it. You're getting negative return for your investment but staying seems better than leaving. It doesn't sound like you're too bothered by it, but I just wanted to point out the power that does exists. It is subtle. No guns and razor wire. Just social/emotional/spiritual/familial etc. influence.
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Post by kittens on May 28, 2015 19:59:53 GMT -5
The workers may from time to time provide some guilt sermons to influence people, but they ultimately have no power to enforce boundaries. It's up to the individual (or the parents, when talking about children) to decide how strict they feel their boundaries should be. Most people will still put on a good show when they're around the workers (I'm assuming just to keep the peace, or to have good "standing" in the church), but otherwise lead pretty normal and unhindered "clean" lives. They have a lot of power, really. 1. Guilt 2. Behavior is different to keep peace 3. Behavior is different to have good standing 4. Feeling you can't or would rather not leave because of the repercussions (you reference in lower post) A calm conscience, peace, and being accepted as a member in good standing are three really big things. People can deny it, but if they actually experience the loss of any of those things, they feel bad or worse. It might not feel like such a big deal to have to make certain concessions while you live an otherwise free life, especially if you used to be entirely in line with the "rules" and now feel freedom in only toeing certain rules at certain times. Feeling that it's easier to stay in a church that doesn't inspire you because of the problems leaving would cause...I have no judgement here...I get it. You're getting negative return for your investment but staying seems better than leaving. It doesn't sound like you're too bothered by it, but I just wanted to point out the power that does exists. It is subtle. No guns and razor wire. Just social/emotional/spiritual/familial etc. influence.
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Post by faune on May 28, 2015 20:12:34 GMT -5
There was a South Park episode making light of this once. I believe they decided it was the Mormons who are right Well there you go! They believe we become gods when we die and will get a planet all to ourselves that we can populate with our earth/live long partner who becomes a perpetually pregnant goddess? Who dreams this stuff up I have to wonder? Snow ~ To answer your question, their founder, Joseph Smith, who also claimed he would stand at Heaven's Gate at the end of the Mormon's life on earth. Well, that is slightly different from William Irvine who claimed he would be one of the two witnesses in the end times (Revelation 13). Both of these leaders surely had a grandiose opinion of themselves, don't you think? en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Status_in_LDS_belief
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Post by withlove on May 28, 2015 20:29:08 GMT -5
They have a lot of power, really. 1. Guilt 2. Behavior is different to keep peace 3. Behavior is different to have good standing 4. Feeling you can't or would rather not leave because of the repercussions (you reference in lower post) A calm conscience, peace, and being accepted as a member in good standing are three really big things. People can deny it, but if they actually experience the loss of any of those things, they feel bad or worse. It might not feel like such a big deal to have to make certain concessions while you live an otherwise free life, especially if you used to be entirely in line with the "rules" and now feel freedom in only toeing certain rules at certain times. Feeling that it's easier to stay in a church that doesn't inspire you because of the problems leaving would cause...I have no judgement here...I get it. You're getting negative return for your investment but staying seems better than leaving. It doesn't sound like you're too bothered by it, but I just wanted to point out the power that does exists. It is subtle. No guns and razor wire. Just social/emotional/spiritual/familial etc. influence. Yes I understand this completely. I lead a very quiet, good honest life but still seem to be picked on for minute details. Over the years there has been 'your fingernails are too long. I want to see them cut next time I see you, the heels of your shoes are too high, you shouldn't wear coloured shoes. black or brown shoes are good enough for the lady workers they should be good enough for you. Sandals are not acceptable, your skirts are too short (just below my knees), your skirts are too long (down to my ankles), people with red hair must dye it, people with curly hair must perm it. Oh you're researching your family tree. I think you could be using your time in more edifying ways. We have a radio in the house, we sometimes listen to music which is not hymns, I have been to the movies possibly 15 times in my whole life and sometimes I buy women's magazines which have cooking, gardening, craft etc. When any of the workers and some of the friends come to visit I scurry round and hide these few things. To me it's really stupid but yes, I do it to keep the peace. I would love to live in the same part of the world that Felicity lives in. Unless she lives the life of a perfect saint (which is impossible. There will always be someone who can pick holes in what you do or the way you do it), the friends and workers who come into her home must be lovely normal people.
Hugs for you, kitten. Yes, all this stuff is about control. The workers don't have to "enforce" anything because the friends do it to themselves. No more modern equivalent of antenna-breaking because the friends will not have radios in sight. The friends know the consequences. You don't have to put people in a physical prison if you can get people to jail themselves in a prison of the mind. People will either follow the rules or feel terrible about not following the rules or just have an empty, limited experience of life to avoid problems.
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Post by rational on May 28, 2015 20:37:40 GMT -5
They have a lot of power, really. 1. Guilt 2. Behavior is different to keep peace 3. Behavior is different to have good standing 4. Feeling you can't or would rather not leave because of the repercussions (you reference in lower post) People only have as much power as you give them. If you feel guilt, for example, that is all you. No one but you can make you feel guilty.
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Post by withlove on May 28, 2015 20:44:25 GMT -5
They have a lot of power, really. 1. Guilt 2. Behavior is different to keep peace 3. Behavior is different to have good standing 4. Feeling you can't or would rather not leave because of the repercussions (you reference in lower post) People only have as much power as you give them. If you feel guilt, for example, that is all you. No one but you can make you feel guilty. I know we will eternally disagree on this subject. It's okay. There are certainly levels of mind control and ability to think for oneself and change ones' own perspectives. Not everyone is on the same level playing field at all times.
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Post by rational on May 28, 2015 21:30:42 GMT -5
People only have as much power as you give them. If you feel guilt, for example, that is all you. No one but you can make you feel guilty. I know we will eternally disagree on this subject. It's okay. There are certainly levels of mind control and ability to think for oneself and change ones' own perspectives. Not everyone is on the same level playing field at all times. But they can be. But if you support the idea that someone can make you feel guilty I would be very interested in hearing how that is possible. I would also be interested in knowing how you think another person can control your mind. In most cases people are in, or remain in, situations as long as the benefits out weigh the cost.
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Post by withlove on May 28, 2015 21:49:18 GMT -5
I know we will eternally disagree on this subject. It's okay. There are certainly levels of mind control and ability to think for oneself and change ones' own perspectives. Not everyone is on the same level playing field at all times. But they can be. But if you support the idea that someone can make you feel guilty I would be very interested in hearing how that is possible. I would also be interested in knowing how you think another person can control your mind. In most cases people are in, or remain in, situations as long as the benefits out weigh the cost. There is info out there about mind control--you can read it and dismiss it if you like. I don't intend to re-write any of the books.
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Post by faune on May 28, 2015 22:02:58 GMT -5
I know we will eternally disagree on this subject. It's okay. There are certainly levels of mind control and ability to think for oneself and change ones' own perspectives. Not everyone is on the same level playing field at all times. But they can be. But if you support the idea that someone can make you feel guilty I would be very interested in hearing how that is possible.
I would also be interested in knowing how you think another person can control your mind.
In most cases people are in, or remain in, situations as long as the benefits out weigh the cost.
Rational ~ You make some interesting points above. I just finished reading an article dealing with the subject of leaving the Jehovah Witnesses. Virtually, you don't realize what a hold a group has on you until you start thinking about leaving, as this article conveys. That's usually where the guilt and fears kicks in, too.
www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=6
Why Some Can't Leave the Watchtower
(and why others that do leave may not fare well)
by Randy Watters
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Post by emy on May 28, 2015 22:06:49 GMT -5
I'm sad for Honestabe, Withlove and kittens (or any others) who feel they must make adjustments to fit into expectations of the friends and workers. I'm especially sorry that you get negative feedback for what seems really minor to me. I guess I live in a place more like where Felicity lives. Or I'm old and already "molded."
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Post by emy on May 28, 2015 22:20:53 GMT -5
I would agree they shouldn't have to. Though it's not like they're having to gather up all their bongs and vodka bottles and playboys to hide from them...more like the women putting on skirts when they normally wear pants, not talking about TV shows or movies around the workers, etc. In some ways hypocritical, yes, in other ways...don't people often act a little more proper and/or cater to their house guests a bit? And there's plenty of middle-aged to older people that don't have to change a thing...it's just how they live. Probably would be more the younger generation that has to "put on a show", as they are in the unenviable spot between living how they want and how some workers might think is best. It's often easier to just be a worker-pleaser when you have to, and live how you want the rest of the time, as opposed to having to worry about fracturing relationships and all the drama that can come with denouncing the workers. Or, maybe it's just me. I don't get a whole lot of inspiration from meetings, but at this point it's just easier to go along with the flow (though I try not to lie and keep my testimonies mostly in line with what I actually believe without offending people) and keep my life enjoyable, rather than deal with all the problems that would come from throwing up the proverbial middle finger. If a person wears pants, I'd greatly encourage them to wear them with anyone they associate with informally. (Yes, I believe pants are informal.) If you don't feel comfortable with some people, wearing pants, then is your conviction REALLY that it's OK? If one thinks discerning people don't know you are "putting on a show" that's sad. And people who care about your soul would rather see you being "real" than being hypocritical. It's certainly not just meetings that the old adage, "you get out of it what you put into it" applies to. You are to be commended that you aren't out to offend. You may be surprised to know that some of us stodgy old folks have been in the same place. I feel very blessed that after way too many years, God reached down and drew me to Him, in spirit and in truth.
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Post by emy on May 28, 2015 22:25:19 GMT -5
The workers may from time to time provide some guilt sermons to influence people, but they ultimately have no power to enforce boundaries. It's up to the individual (or the parents, when talking about children) to decide how strict they feel their boundaries should be. Most people will still put on a good show when they're around the workers (I'm assuming just to keep the peace, or to have good "standing" in the church), but otherwise lead pretty normal and unhindered "clean" lives. I strongly disagree that MOST people put on a show. But I do agree with another statement made that we tend to treat our houseguests kindly and with care.
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Post by snow on May 28, 2015 23:26:43 GMT -5
People only have as much power as you give them. If you feel guilt, for example, that is all you. No one but you can make you feel guilty. I know we will eternally disagree on this subject. It's okay. There are certainly levels of mind control and ability to think for oneself and change ones' own perspectives. Not everyone is on the same level playing field at all times. I know about guilt and feeling guilty. I was guilted over and over and yes I felt guilty. I was raised to feel guilty about something. No worth, a sinner etc. So what I did was feel guilty and kept doing it anyway until I realized there was no reason to feel guilty and it was a total waste of my energy. But boy does it take will power. Thankfully I had lots of that...
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Post by snow on May 28, 2015 23:28:49 GMT -5
It's nothing to do with theology Faune. Folks obsessed with the Trinity write books and pontificate on TMB about the 2x2 church being a cult because it doesn't promote Trinitarian theology. Yet Trinitarian churches can be extremely abusive. What books have been written specifically singling out the 2x2 church as a cult because they don't believe God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Irvine Grey
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hberry
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Post by hberry on May 28, 2015 23:33:25 GMT -5
I would agree they shouldn't have to. Though it's not like they're having to gather up all their bongs and vodka bottles and playboys to hide from them...more like the women putting on skirts when they normally wear pants, not talking about TV shows or movies around the workers, etc. In some ways hypocritical, yes, in other ways...don't people often act a little more proper and/or cater to their house guests a bit? And there's plenty of middle-aged to older people that don't have to change a thing...it's just how they live. Probably would be more the younger generation that has to "put on a show", as they are in the unenviable spot between living how they want and how some workers might think is best. It's often easier to just be a worker-pleaser when you have to, and live how you want the rest of the time, as opposed to having to worry about fracturing relationships and all the drama that can come with denouncing the workers. Or, maybe it's just me. I don't get a whole lot of inspiration from meetings, but at this point it's just easier to go along with the flow (though I try not to lie and keep my testimonies mostly in line with what I actually believe without offending people) and keep my life enjoyable, rather than deal with all the problems that would come from throwing up the proverbial middle finger. If a person wears pants, I'd greatly encourage them to wear them with anyone they associate with informally. (Yes, I believe pants are informal.) If you don't feel comfortable with some people, wearing pants, then is your conviction REALLY that it's OK? If one thinks discerning people don't know you are "putting on a show" that's sad. And people who care about your soul would rather see you being "real" than being hypocritical. It's certainly not just meetings that the old adage, "you get out of it what you put into it" applies to. You are to be commended that you aren't out to offend. You may be surprised to know that some of us stodgy old folks have been in the same place. I feel very blessed that after way too many years, God reached down and drew me to Him, in spirit and in truth. I was surprised that my Mom, in her early 90s, decided that since she wore pants everywhere except to meeting, she'd quit changing when the workers came by. She was confident in her conviction that pants were acceptable, so she decided unless the workers indicated they were offended by it, she'd live by her convictions. The overseer came by for a visit several times through the years and never made a comment on her pants; what he thought, I don't know, of course. On the other hand, although I was equally convicted that pants are acceptable attire for women, I had to change to dresses when the workers came as it made my husband nervous if I didn't. I didn't think of that as 'putting on a show' however--just fitting in with hubby's sensitivities on the issue. I suspect many people change because they assume it isn't okay with the other person and not out of any lack of conviction that it is okay. I wore my hair up when around the friends bcs I knew that was expected of me, but I wore it down all the rest of the time. However, that too was out of respect for the dictates (spoken or otherwise) of the group I was with. It would only be hypocritical if I denied the fact. Just my thoughts on the matter at any rate.
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Post by fixit on May 28, 2015 23:50:47 GMT -5
What books have been written specifically singling out the 2x2 church as a cult because they don't believe God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Irvine Grey That's one that springs to mind. If Ross was to read this thread he'd notice that one of the definitions given for "cult" is the rejection of Trinitarian dogma.
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Post by rational on May 29, 2015 0:21:05 GMT -5
But they can be. But if you support the idea that someone can make you feel guilty I would be very interested in hearing how that is possible. I would also be interested in knowing how you think another person can control your mind. In most cases people are in, or remain in, situations as long as the benefits out weigh the cost. There is info out there about mind control--you can read it and dismiss it if you like. I don't intend to re-write any of the books. There is also information out there regarding the myth of mind control/brainwashing. If you present some references that support your point of view you should not have to rewrite any books. But I can understand you might not want to discuss this.
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Post by withlove on May 29, 2015 0:30:38 GMT -5
There is info out there about mind control--you can read it and dismiss it if you like. I don't intend to re-write any of the books. There is also information out there regarding the myth of mind control/brainwashing. If you present some references that support your point of view you should not have to rewrite any books. But I can understand you might not want to discuss this. Sometimes I feel like discussing it. I have discussed it a bit already in this thread. It shouldn't be difficult to find information about mind control. You are capable of that. Maybe I will start a book review thread the next time I finish reading one that discusses that topic.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 3:35:54 GMT -5
Yes I understand this completely. I lead a very quiet, good honest life but still seem to be picked on for minute details. Over the years there has been 'your fingernails are too long. I want to see them cut next time I see you, the heels of your shoes are too high, you shouldn't wear coloured shoes. black or brown shoes are good enough for the lady workers they should be good enough for you. Sandals are not acceptable, your skirts are too short (just below my knees), your skirts are too long (down to my ankles), people with red hair must dye it, people with curly hair must perm it. Oh you're researching your family tree. I think you could be using your time in more edifying ways. We have a radio in the house, we sometimes listen to music which is not hymns, I have been to the movies possibly 15 times in my whole life and sometimes I buy women's magazines which have cooking, gardening, craft etc. When any of the workers and some of the friends come to visit I scurry round and hide these few things. To me it's really stupid but yes, I do it to keep the peace. I would love to live in the same part of the world that Felicity lives in. Unless she lives the life of a perfect saint (which is impossible. There will always be someone who can pick holes in what you do or the way you do it), the friends and workers who come into her home must be lovely normal people.
Sadly no, I'm not a perfect saint! We have lovely friends and workers here. I can't ever recall anyone passing comments on my clothes or shoes. I dress pretty conservatively from personal choice, and I dress the same no matter who is looking. I don't have anything in the house that I would want to hide when someone walks in the door - with the possible exception of my ironing pile Having said that, there have been several kind workers over the years who have done all the ironing for me during their visits.
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Post by kittens on May 29, 2015 3:49:54 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 3:53:05 GMT -5
If you don't feel comfortable with some people, wearing pants, then is your conviction REALLY that it's OK? If one thinks discerning people don't know you are "putting on a show" that's sad. And people who care about your soul would rather see you being "real" than being hypocritical. It's certainly not just meetings that the old adage, "you get out of it what you put into it" applies to. You are to be commended that you aren't out to offend. You may be surprised to know that some of us stodgy old folks have been in the same place. I feel very blessed that after way too many years, God reached down and drew me to Him, in spirit and in truth. Yes, I agree that people who care about your soul would rather see you being honest than see you putting on a show. If anyone is ashamed to be seen the way they are, then maybe it's their conscience talking. The whole point is trying to be a God-pleaser not a man-pleaser.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 3:57:46 GMT -5
Felicity I know nobody leads a completely charmed life and everyone has some problems or sadness at some stage but do you realise how extremely lucky you are to have friends and workers in your area who you can feel completely comfortable with? We have had lovely friends in some areas we have lived too but sadly it is not always the case. Yes I've always dressed pretty conservatively too (or thought I did) from choice. No, I haven't had a 'charmed life' either - we've had to face some dreadful things. However, I agree that we are extremely fortunate to have supportive friends and workers around us. I'm sorry it's not like that everywhere.
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Post by rational on May 29, 2015 7:23:53 GMT -5
There is also information out there regarding the myth of mind control/brainwashing. If you present some references that support your point of view you should not have to rewrite any books. But I can understand you might not want to discuss this. Sometimes I feel like discussing it. I have discussed it a bit already in this thread. It shouldn't be difficult to find information about mind control. You are capable of that. Maybe I will start a book review thread the next time I finish reading one that discusses that topic. I have a feeling the first step would be to define what you consider "mind control".
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