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Post by rational on May 1, 2015 10:07:40 GMT -5
what a load of hogwash, how on earth do you know what people pray for people don't have to go about spouting to others what they are praying for, looking for brownie points wouldn't like to be in your shoes when God shows you what others had actually prayed for, be to late then to change what judgements you have made Sounds like you might be doing a little judging yourself!
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Post by mdm on May 1, 2015 10:13:18 GMT -5
I admit that the fellowship is very inward looking, the focus is on the spiritual well being and welfare of the members, with very little concern for outsiders. It is a case, more or less, of charity begins at home. I have frequently stated on this forum that I am not an exclusivist, I believe that there are very faithful people in other churches, I have discussions with some of them and, truth be told, I learn a lot from them and find what I would regard as some godly behaviour somewhat lacking in our fellowship. Love one another is one example. Shunning strangers and being stand - offish is not a godly trait in my opinion. The only focus and concentration on outsiders is reserved for Gospel meeting time. I can't say that has been my experience in the fellowship. Of course, there are times when we are all found lacking, and we miss opportunities where maybe we could have been more helpful, but I can't say I've ever seen "very little concern for outsiders" or "shunning strangers". Do people in your meeting not pray for perishing souls? We can all get on well with neighbours, work colleagues, other parents at school - wherever we meet people - without compromising the standards we try to live by. It would be hard to be an example if we hid away and didn't ever talk to anyone. I agree with what you say. But - just a tine little but - could it be that because of frequent reminders to keep separate from the world, professing people tend to develop a distrust of outsiders which, along with the self-congratulatory belief that one belongs to the true way, can lead to a certain indifference if not callousness toward those who are "in the world?" In no way am I saying that this applies to you or to all f&w, but I do admit that I am talking based not just on observations but on personal experience as well - I went through that phase myself.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 10:49:24 GMT -5
I can't say that has been my experience in the fellowship. Of course, there are times when we are all found lacking, and we miss opportunities where maybe we could have been more helpful, but I can't say I've ever seen "very little concern for outsiders" or "shunning strangers". Do people in your meeting not pray for perishing souls? We can all get on well with neighbours, work colleagues, other parents at school - wherever we meet people - without compromising the standards we try to live by. It would be hard to be an example if we hid away and didn't ever talk to anyone. I agree with what you say. But - just a tine little but - could it be that because of frequent reminders to keep separate from the world, professing people tend to develop a distrust of outsiders which, along with the self-congratulatory belief that one belongs to the true way, can lead to a certain indifference if not callousness toward those who are "in the world?" In no way am I saying that this applies to you or to all f&w, but I do admit that I am talking based not just on observations but on personal experience as well - I went through that phase myself. Yes, I guess that can happen at times. Speaking from experience, it can be difficult to stay close to people who don't share our beliefs, and yet remain separate from the things they do / places they go etc that we don't feel comfortable with. I guess we need to be more sensitive to how other people feel.
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Post by mdm on May 1, 2015 11:26:38 GMT -5
When someone is going through a hard time, most folks in the Protestant world, at least around here, would say to them: I'll keep you in my prayers. However, f&w's would say at most: I'll keep you in my thoughts/I'll be thinking of you. I assume it's due to the belief that we should not pray for natural things. I also assume that that's why the writer of the letter doesn't mention prayer. Also, f&w's believe that troubles serve the purpose of drawing people to God, therefore they would not be praying for troubles be alleviated, but that they would cause those going through them to seek God/His true way. That's another reason, if not the main one, why the writer would not mention prayer. I think this is accurate. But I see it as a good thing. "I'm thinking of you" is actually more inclusive than saying "I'll pray for you". Friends do, to my knowledge, pray for others, individually or collectively. I've never thought of broadcasting the fact as very useful, except in very particular circumstances. Anyone, Christian or not, can appreciate being "thought about" and "considered", so in saying that you show yourself to be broadly human and caring, not just Christian. Well, yes, I wouldn't tell my non-believing family that I'll keep them in my prayers when they are going through a hard time... It seems that both "I'll be thinking of you" and "I'll be praying for you" are used not to broadcast the fact or intention, but to encourage and let the person know you care and that you will do what you can to help. It's also a cultural thing - just something people say, whether they care or not. Now, the question arises: what is it you are promising to do and how does it help? In case of prayer, one obviously believes that prayer can help. But in case of thinking, how does that help? If one believes in the power of positive thoughts or positive energy, I can see the reason for saying "I'll be thinking of you." But if they don't, then it's just a culturally appropriate thing to say that carries little meaning, much like the American greeting "How are you?" which is not used to ask anything even though it has the form of a caring inquiry. I'm not saying one is right and the other wrong, but maybe to a believer "I'll be praying for you" actually has a promise of real and concrete help.
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Post by mdm on May 1, 2015 11:41:38 GMT -5
I agree with what you say. But - just a tine little but - could it be that because of frequent reminders to keep separate from the world, professing people tend to develop a distrust of outsiders which, along with the self-congratulatory belief that one belongs to the true way, can lead to a certain indifference if not callousness toward those who are "in the world?" In no way am I saying that this applies to you or to all f&w, but I do admit that I am talking based not just on observations but on personal experience as well - I went through that phase myself. Yes, I guess that can happen at times. Speaking from experience, it can be difficult to stay close to people who don't share our beliefs, and yet remain separate from the things they do / places they go etc that we don't feel comfortable with. I guess we need to be more sensitive to how other people feel. I know what you mean. There will be a separation, it's inevitable.
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Post by snow on May 1, 2015 11:51:36 GMT -5
Why do we "friendlies" give thought to the people in our fellowship who are in an area of tragedy? Well, it's like you may have a cousin whom you have never met who lives there. You know people who know that person so you wonder... That's how it is: We're family. I don't define it as just those in a religion. We are all a part of the human family and that encompasses everyone not just those in our social groups. I do understand what you mean though Emy, I'm just saying that our 'family' is much larger than particular groups.
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Post by What Hat on May 1, 2015 12:38:55 GMT -5
I think this is accurate. But I see it as a good thing. "I'm thinking of you" is actually more inclusive than saying "I'll pray for you". Friends do, to my knowledge, pray for others, individually or collectively. I've never thought of broadcasting the fact as very useful, except in very particular circumstances. Anyone, Christian or not, can appreciate being "thought about" and "considered", so in saying that you show yourself to be broadly human and caring, not just Christian. Well, yes, I wouldn't tell my non-believing family that I'll keep them in my prayers when they are going through a hard time... It seems that both "I'll be thinking of you" and "I'll be praying for you" are used not to broadcast the fact or intention, but to encourage and let the person know you care and that you will do what you can to help. It's also a cultural thing - just something people say, whether they care or not. Now, the question arises: what is it you are promising to do and how does it help? In case of prayer, one obviously believes that prayer can help. But in case of thinking, how does that help? If one believes in the power of positive thoughts or positive energy, I can see the reason for saying "I'll be thinking of you." But if they don't, then it's just a culturally appropriate thing to say that carries little meaning, much like the American greeting "How are you?" which is not used to ask anything even though it has the form of a caring inquiry. I'm not saying one is right and the other wrong, but maybe to a believer "I'll be praying for you" actually has a promise of real and concrete help. Saying or showing that you care is the essential element of the message to most people, and I think it does mean a lot especially in times of crisis. However, "I'll be praying for you" is also quite powerful, but I'm somewhat careful as to when I say that. I don't think God's response changes based on how many petitions He receives, personally. Prayer is more for us than for Him. I know there is Biblical evidence to the contrary, but to my experience, stuff happens, prayer or no prayer. A prayer should always be made in the spirit of "if it be Thy will", but that's just me. I admire and respect people who pray to God about a personal dilemma such as getting a job or having nice weather for the picnic. I don't have that kind of connection with God. I mean, I would pray about something like that, but not with a specific outcome in mind. At its extreme though some people seem to turn God into a personal valet service. There are some things that people say that I wish they wouldn't. For example, "don't hesitate to call if you need anything". It sounds insincere, even if the person is sincere.
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Post by emy on May 1, 2015 13:44:49 GMT -5
...... We all like to think and believe that our fellowship is the perfect way, but in reality it is not perfect, it has flaws like all other earthly things, and we must be wiling to see them admit that they are there and seek to correct them; I expect that it is what God would expect us to do. I think the underlined is a statement of misunderstanding. (Well, not for you - that's how you understand it!) But for me, the fellowship can never be perfect because the fellowship consists of people. When I hear someone say "the way is perfect," I would generally think "the Way" is Jesus and what he taught and taught others to teach, or even what the Holy Spirit teaches us today.
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Post by hberry on May 1, 2015 13:55:58 GMT -5
...... We all like to think and believe that our fellowship is the perfect way, but in reality it is not perfect, it has flaws like all other earthly things, and we must be wiling to see them admit that they are there and seek to correct them; I expect that it is what God would expect us to do. I think the underlined is a statement of misunderstanding. (Well, not for you - that's how you understand it!) But for me, the fellowship can never be perfect because the fellowship consists of people. When I hear someone say "the way is perfect," I would generally think "the Way" is Jesus and what he taught and taught others to teach, or even what the Holy Spirit teaches us today. At least in my part of the world, when folks talk about finding 'the perfect way,' they aren't referring to Jesus but instead to the fellowship. I know that, because I've asked--and thought it myself. They accept that Jesus is perfect and since 'this fellowship' is ''His way,' then it must be perfect. "The way is perfect but the people aren't" is the catch phrase used here. I'm fine with loving the fellowship you are in, you should or why be in it?, but at least in my area, 'the perfect way' is the fellowship. I'm glad to hear that others have a clearer understanding than I did and don't confuse Jesus as the perfect way with a particular fellowship.
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Post by mdm on May 1, 2015 14:26:50 GMT -5
I think the underlined is a statement of misunderstanding. (Well, not for you - that's how you understand it!) But for me, the fellowship can never be perfect because the fellowship consists of people. When I hear someone say "the way is perfect," I would generally think "the Way" is Jesus and what he taught and taught others to teach, or even what the Holy Spirit teaches us today. At least in my part of the world, when folks talk about finding 'the perfect way,' they aren't referring to Jesus but instead to the fellowship. I know that, because I've asked--and thought it myself. They accept that Jesus is perfect and since 'this fellowship' is ''His way,' then it must be perfect. "The way is perfect but the people aren't" is the catch phrase used here. I'm fine with loving the fellowship you are in, you should or why be in it?, but at least in my area, 'the perfect way' is the fellowship. I'm glad to hear that others have a clearer understanding than I did and don't confuse Jesus as the perfect way with a particular fellowship. Same here in TX. "The way is perfect but people aren't" is the standard explanation we got when we raised questions about certain things.
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Post by emy on May 1, 2015 16:46:16 GMT -5
At least in my part of the world, when folks talk about finding 'the perfect way,' they aren't referring to Jesus but instead to the fellowship. I know that, because I've asked--and thought it myself. They accept that Jesus is perfect and since 'this fellowship' is ''His way,' then it must be perfect. "The way is perfect but the people aren't" is the catch phrase used here. I'm fine with loving the fellowship you are in, you should or why be in it?, but at least in my area, 'the perfect way' is the fellowship. I'm glad to hear that others have a clearer understanding than I did and don't confuse Jesus as the perfect way with a particular fellowship. Same here in TX. "The way is perfect but people aren't" is the standard explanation we got when we raised questions about certain things. What was meant by that might be different from how you interpreted it. It's hard for me to believe that "perfect" could encompass anything that is about imperfect people - and every human is imperfect.
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Post by Gene on May 1, 2015 20:23:56 GMT -5
Subject: Nepal After the terrible earthquake in Nepal some of you will be wondering about the friends and workers there, just as we are. Nepal was one of the stops on my recent convention trip thru S.E. Asia. There are four Indian workers in the country and maybe a dozen friends. I have had contact with Frykholm and he says the friends and workers in Kathmandu are all safe. There is a family in a village whom they have not been able to make contact with but apparently there is not much damage in that area. The sisters have gone over to the brother’s batch, which is within walking distance. It’s night there now and the four of them, and likely many others, are spending the night outside. There is no electricity so once Frykholm’s cell battery goes dead, they will be out of contact. However, we know that they are safe so that is what’s most important. Nepal, like most places, has lots of people who ‘know about’ the Truth. Perhaps this will move someone to want it for themselves. This has been one of the worst earthquakes in modern times so surely should wake someone up to the uncertainty of life. @@@@@@ Thank God for the disasters he inflicts upon his children. It's just one way that a loving Father draws his children to Himself.
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Post by slowtosee on May 1, 2015 20:50:20 GMT -5
At least in my part of the world, when folks talk about finding 'the perfect way,' they aren't referring to Jesus but instead to the fellowship. I know that, because I've asked--and thought it myself. They accept that Jesus is perfect and since 'this fellowship' is ''His way,' then it must be perfect. "The way is perfect but the people aren't" is the catch phrase used here. I'm fine with loving the fellowship you are in, you should or why be in it?, but at least in my area, 'the perfect way' is the fellowship. I'm glad to hear that others have a clearer understanding than I did and don't confuse Jesus as the perfect way with a particular fellowship. Same here in TX. "The way is perfect but people aren't" is the standard explanation we got when we raised questions about certain things. . That was a fairly standard answer here also. I have come to the conclusion that the people are a lot more "perfect " than the very imperfect " way " that sometimes pressures them into upholding and defending "mistakes " and "imperfections " that are obvious and troubling for these precious "perfect " people. Hence, I think more along the path that says. "The people are "perfect, but "the way" sure is not."., with lots of skeletons banging around behind those closed doors. No sect, or religion, or denomination, creed, doctrine, group etc., is the way. Of course, with the understanding that Jesus is "the way" changes that , and makes the " original " saying correct - " the way is perfect. ..." Alvin
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Post by slowtosee on May 1, 2015 21:03:21 GMT -5
Subject: Nepal After the terrible earthquake in Nepal some of you will be wondering about the friends and workers there, just as we are. Nepal was one of the stops on my recent convention trip thru S.E. Asia. There are four Indian workers in the country and maybe a dozen friends. I have had contact with Frykholm and he says the friends and workers in Kathmandu are all safe. There is a family in a village whom they have not been able to make contact with but apparently there is not much damage in that area. The sisters have gone over to the brother’s batch, which is within walking distance. It’s night there now and the four of them, and likely many others, are spending the night outside. There is no electricity so once Frykholm’s cell battery goes dead, they will be out of contact. However, we know that they are safe so that is what’s most important. Nepal, like most places, has lots of people who ‘know about’ the Truth. Perhaps this will move someone to want it for themselves. This has been one of the worst earthquakes in modern times so surely should wake someone up to the uncertainty of life. @@@@@@ Thank God for the disasters he inflicts upon his children. It's just one way that a loving Father draws his children to Himself. I also struggle against that fairly common thinking amongst many believers. Kinda like telling your partner, " I will continue beating you till you understand that I love you". Hmmmmmmmmm " it rains on the just and the unjust ", along with earthquakes, death, injustice, sickness and a host of other "bad " things that happen to good people. Alvin
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Post by withlove on May 2, 2015 0:14:50 GMT -5
Same here in TX. "The way is perfect but people aren't" is the standard explanation we got when we raised questions about certain things. What was meant by that might be different from how you interpreted it. It's hard for me to believe that "perfect" could encompass anything that is about imperfect people - and every human is imperfect. Emy, it's refreshing how you believe! The underlined is what I always heard too, everywhere I lived. The meaning of "the way" in that phrase is the denomination, not Jesus. Otherwise we would have all said Jesus is perfect but we aren't. So the phrase means that the church is set up correctly with correct rules and operations, etc., and if there is a problem it is because of a specific person has done something (or a few people). But the established way of doing things is right, because it is all divinely inspired and not corrupted by human mistakes. Whenever someone says that phrase, a good question to ask is "what is the way?"
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Post by mdm on May 2, 2015 9:20:20 GMT -5
Same here in TX. "The way is perfect but people aren't" is the standard explanation we got when we raised questions about certain things. What was meant by that might be different from how you interpreted it. It's hard for me to believe that "perfect" could encompass anything that is about imperfect people - and every human is imperfect. I agree, but as withlove says it is believed by f&w's that the way, the church is perfect, because it's supposedly patterned on the ministry that Jesus established. What about the hymn that says: "We love the perfect way of God, the lowly way that Jesus trod"? Here clearly, Jesus is not the way, but the way is "the way that Jesus trod," some pattern he established. F&W's believe that their church is following the same pattern or the way. Now, when we did ask what the way is, the answer was usually that it's Jesus. But, in conversation, the word 'way' is always used to refer to the church, not to Jesus.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 13:12:28 GMT -5
Subject: Nepal Earth Quake - Update # 1 Will be including all but there is a high possibility that some are left out, so kindly pass on. Many from around the world who don’t have access to email have phoned too, so please share with any that may be interested. Thanks very much. Dear all by name, Many thanks for your communications, many of you have contacted a number of times and our apologies as we were not in a position to respond at times. At this point, we have visited all our friends & contacts in Kathmandu and the villages. Everyone is safe although there seems to be some form of damage or the other to their accommodation, varying from the loss of the home to cracks or falling of plaster etc.. Sara, Kuber & their two children, in the village have lost their home (also most of the other villagers as the homes were quite old); they have put up sheds in their field for temporary shelter and also opened the remainder of their small land holding to others to put up temporary shelters. Govinda & Bishnu’s home in another village is still standing but with some damage; surprisingly, this face of the hill was spared from the fury of the quake and a few old houses are still standing without much damage and a Km away on the other face, houses have fallen down. On Wednesday afternoon, the 96 hour ‘high alert’ period ended, when the warning was for everyone to stay outdoors at nights. We managed quite alright in our yard with our kind house owners, although at times the weather was not so favourable but we were so much better off than those who were/are still stuck without aid or rescue in remote locations; we spent the nights indoors since Wednesday. We are getting essentials and food items but at a time like this everything is scant. We have seen some heart rending scenes and we can only wish and pray that any survivors may be rescued to safety, as even after 6 days some are being rescued alive. Now the search and rescue priority is narrowing down to buildings were there may be survivors. There are several international teams on the ground working round the clock, yet many villages including those of our friends, have not received any relief yet. Official number of lost lives as of last night is 6186 but there are several injured and missing. Tremors are still continuing although the intensity and frequency have reduced but we had an aftershock this morning at 02:57 which was the strongest in the last two days but it lasted only a few seconds. Reports say these aftershocks may continue for weeks. Our Srilankan friend, Adrian Jayesingha, would have reached Colombo on 28 April, he went via Delhi. The NZ friends are still in Nepal; Michelle Lomas is working in a hospital in Pokhara as part of her nursing training (she and her team provided critical medical/other assistance in the epicentre) and her daughter Courtney is on her way to Kathmandu now, they hope to be in the country for about two more weeks. Karen Ale (nee Boyd) received a call on Wednesday night from the Canadian embassy that they will airlift their citizens out of Nepal on Thursday, so we dropped the family at the American Club where they were to assemble but unfortunately they wouldn’t let her family accompany her as they are Nepali citizens, so she and family returned home. All other friends, contacts and workers are coping as well as they can under the circumstances. We will try our best to send updates of confirmed news that we have. Apart from the listed phone numbers, we have kept alive (# deleted), as several said that our numbers were not reachable. Naveen and I were supposed to leave for Shillong (North east India) on 6 May but now our travel plans are on hold. We miss carrying out our special meeting plans for this week but as several have said, God is no man’s debtor. We have been able to have our week night meetings as possible. Heartfelt gratitude again from, All of us in Nepal. Sury
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Post by emy on May 2, 2015 13:16:29 GMT -5
What was meant by that might be different from how you interpreted it. It's hard for me to believe that "perfect" could encompass anything that is about imperfect people - and every human is imperfect. I agree, but as withlove says it is believed by f&w's that the way, the church is perfect, because it's supposedly patterned on the ministry that Jesus established. What about the hymn that says: "We love the perfect way of God, the lowly way that Jesus trod"? Here clearly, Jesus is not the way, but the way is "the way that Jesus trod," some pattern he established. F&W's believe that their church is following the same pattern or the way. Now, when we did ask what the way is, the answer was usually that it's Jesus. But, in conversation, the word 'way' is always used to refer to the church, not to Jesus. That hymn has been in my mind frequently since I wrote that yesterday. I read it through last night with the thought in mind, is it the church, not Jesus? I concluded that if one is thinking of the church in the hymn, it's a misjudgment. But Jesus did establish a church (Matt 16:18). It's founded on revelation. And in Acts, there are frequent references to a way, in the sense of a path. When people say, the way is perfect but the people are not, isn't that like saying the church is not? Because "church" is people.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 15:05:47 GMT -5
What was meant by that might be different from how you interpreted it. It's hard for me to believe that "perfect" could encompass anything that is about imperfect people - and every human is imperfect. Emy, it's refreshing how you believe! The underlined is what I always heard too, everywhere I lived. The meaning of "the way" in that phrase is the denomination, not Jesus. Otherwise we would have all said Jesus is perfect but we aren't. So the phrase means that the church is set up correctly with correct rules and operations, etc., and if there is a problem it is because of a specific person has done something (or a few people). But the established way of doing things is right, because it is all divinely inspired and not corrupted by human mistakes. Whenever someone says that phrase, a good question to ask is "what is the way?" Yes I agree. I have heard,with my own ears, friends say on more than one occasion over the years that the fellowship is perfect because it is God's only true way, and that is why it is sometimes referred to as " The Truth."
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Post by slowtosee on May 2, 2015 18:23:04 GMT -5
Subject: Nepal Earth Quake - Update # 1 Will be including all but there is a high possibility that some are left out, so kindly pass on. Many from around the world who don’t have access to email have phoned too, so please share with any that may be interested. Thanks very much. Dear all by name, Many thanks for your communications, many of you have contacted a number of times and our apologies as we were not in a position to respond at times. At this point, we have visited all our friends & contacts in Kathmandu and the villages. Everyone is safe although there seems to be some form of damage or the other to their accommodation, varying from the loss of the home to cracks or falling of plaster etc.. Sara, Kuber & their two children, in the village have lost their home (also most of the other villagers as the homes were quite old); they have put up sheds in their field for temporary shelter and also opened the remainder of their small land holding to others to put up temporary shelters. Govinda & Bishnu’s home in another village is still standing but with some damage; surprisingly, this face of the hill was spared from the fury of the quake and a few old houses are still standing without much damage and a Km away on the other face, houses have fallen down. On Wednesday afternoon, the 96 hour ‘high alert’ period ended, when the warning was for everyone to stay outdoors at nights. We managed quite alright in our yard with our kind house owners, although at times the weather was not so favourable but we were so much better off than those who were/are still stuck without aid or rescue in remote locations; we spent the nights indoors since Wednesday. We are getting essentials and food items but at a time like this everything is scant. We have seen some heart rending scenes and we can only wish and pray that any survivors may be rescued to safety, as even after 6 days some are being rescued alive. Now the search and rescue priority is narrowing down to buildings were there may be survivors. There are several international teams on the ground working round the clock, yet many villages including those of our friends, have not received any relief yet. Official number of lost lives as of last night is 6186 but there are several injured and missing. Tremors are still continuing although the intensity and frequency have reduced but we had an aftershock this morning at 02:57 which was the strongest in the last two days but it lasted only a few seconds. Reports say these aftershocks may continue for weeks. Our Srilankan friend, Adrian Jayesingha, would have reached Colombo on 28 April, he went via Delhi. The NZ friends are still in Nepal; Michelle Lomas is working in a hospital in Pokhara as part of her nursing training (she and her team provided critical medical/other assistance in the epicentre) and her daughter Courtney is on her way to Kathmandu now, they hope to be in the country for about two more weeks. Karen Ale (nee Boyd) received a call on Wednesday night from the Canadian embassy that they will airlift their citizens out of Nepal on Thursday, so we dropped the family at the American Club where they were to assemble but unfortunately they wouldn’t let her family accompany her as they are Nepali citizens, so she and family returned home. All other friends, contacts and workers are coping as well as they can under the circumstances. We will try our best to send updates of confirmed news that we have. Apart from the listed phone numbers, we have kept alive (# deleted), as several said that our numbers were not reachable. Naveen and I were supposed to leave for Shillong (North east India) on 6 May but now our travel plans are on hold. We miss carrying out our special meeting plans for this week but as several have said, God is no man’s debtor. We have been able to have our week night meetings as possible. Heartfelt gratitude again from, All of us in Nepal. Sury[ Thanks for sharing that letter. Appreciated the information, including of one we know, and also the tone of courage and love and compassion of the writer. Alvin
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 21:34:30 GMT -5
I agree, but as withlove says it is believed by f&w's that the way, the church is perfect, because it's supposedly patterned on the ministry that Jesus established. What about the hymn that says: "We love the perfect way of God, the lowly way that Jesus trod"? Here clearly, Jesus is not the way, but the way is "the way that Jesus trod," some pattern he established. F&W's believe that their church is following the same pattern or the way. Now, when we did ask what the way is, the answer was usually that it's Jesus. But, in conversation, the word 'way' is always used to refer to the church, not to Jesus. That hymn has been in my mind frequently since I wrote that yesterday. I read it through last night with the thought in mind, is it the church, not Jesus? I concluded that if one is thinking of the church in the hymn, it's a misjudgment. But Jesus did establish a church (Matt 16:18). It's founded on revelation. And in Acts, there are frequent references to a way, in the sense of a path. When people say, the way is perfect but the people are not, isn't that like saying the church is not? Because "church" is people. Jesus is in the Church and the Church is in Jesus, the way is Jesus in the Church, the people in the Church are in the way Jesus, the Church cannot be separated from Jesus because He is the Church Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Post by withlove on May 2, 2015 23:04:36 GMT -5
When people say, the way is perfect but the people are not, isn't that like saying the church is not? Because "church" is people. I agree with you, emy...the church is people. But the people who use the phrase don't mean that. For context, that phrase is said when there is a discussion about a problem in the church. I've noticed it more often than not is said by someone who feels they are more established in the way to someone they feel is weaker. It is an attempt to head-off any thought that there is a problem with the church--so that the problem attributed to individual people, not policies.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 2, 2015 23:43:26 GMT -5
When people say, the way is perfect but the people are not, isn't that like saying the church is not? Because "church" is people. I agree with you, emy...the church is people. But the people who use the phrase don't mean that. For context, that phrase is said when there is a discussion about a problem in the church. I've noticed it more often than not is said by someone who feels they are more established in the way to someone they feel is weaker. It is an attempt to head-off any thought that there is a problem with the church--so that the problem attributed to individual people, not policies. Withlove, I agree.
I got so tired of hearing that said to me all the time that I finally had the courage one time to reply; "No! it is NOT just one or two people! It is the policy of the whole institution & the way that the workers handle situations!"
I never heard it from that person ever again, -so maybe it finally made a dent in their way of thinking.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 3, 2015 5:02:10 GMT -5
Why do we "friendlies" give thought to the people in our fellowship who are in an area of tragedy? Well, it's like you may have a cousin whom you have never met who lives there. You know people who know that person so you wonder... That's how it is: We're family. some seem unable to grasp the fact that we have spiritual brothers and sisters though out the world and feel it very keenly when they maybe in the path of danger, as you say family Yes you do Virgo, according to Wiki there are 2.2 billion of your spiritual brothers and sisters in the world and in Nepal according to Wiki there is 269,000 of your spiritual brothers and sisters. My prayers and thoughts are for all of them and all other human life.
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Post by SharonArnold on May 3, 2015 9:40:17 GMT -5
some seem unable to grasp the fact that we have spiritual brothers and sisters though out the world and feel it very keenly when they maybe in the path of danger, as you say family Yes you do Virgo, according to Wiki there are 2.2 billion of your spiritual brothers and sisters in the world and in Nepal according to Wiki there is 269,000 of your spiritual brothers and sisters. My prayers and thoughts are for all of them and all other human life. Are you not doing exactly what you are accusing Virgo of doing? When I read the first line of your post, I thought there was a typo. A lot of people would now consider that they have ~ 7.3 billion spiritual brothers and sisters in the world, and about 29 million in Nepal.
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hberry
Senior Member
Posts: 743
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Post by hberry on May 3, 2015 11:43:59 GMT -5
Yes you do Virgo, according to Wiki there are 2.2 billion of your spiritual brothers and sisters in the world and in Nepal according to Wiki there is 269,000 of your spiritual brothers and sisters. My prayers and thoughts are for all of them and all other human life. Are you not doing exactly what you are accusing Virgo of doing? When I read the first line of your post, I thought there was a typo. A lot of people would now consider that they have ~ 7.3 billion spiritual brothers and sisters in the world, and about 29 million in Nepal. From my perspective as a Christian, I would consider that I have approximately 7.3 billion neighbors, as Jesus defined a neighbor (someone you are to love as you love yourself) and of those 7.3 billions neighbors, some of those are my spiritual brothers and sisters (all those who believe in Christ). Our responsibility to love and care is not limited to 'family' as I read scripture. Just my perspective, but I have prayed for all in Nepal and wept for those trapped under the rubble. I can't imagine.
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Post by maryhig on May 3, 2015 11:55:51 GMT -5
I believe my brothers and sisters are who God loves, God loves everyone. So everyone is my brother or sister.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son!
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 3, 2015 12:41:46 GMT -5
Yes, you are all quite right, my mistake.
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