tom
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by tom on Apr 27, 2015 21:28:52 GMT -5
I was referring to your claim about Graham Thompson's sermon and the current NZ workers. 'Eat my words' -I dont think so. I am one who is constantly repeating that people must go to the authorities if they have a problem. Anyone can make a claim about anything but it is not fact until proven.
I assume Curly is referring to past workers - not any current NZ worker. I agree that people must go to the authorities if they have a problem. In the NZ overseer's guideline sent to all NZ workers August 2012 he said some good things and covered the topic quite thoroughly, but unfortunately he advised interviewing perpetrators and victims (with parents present). That's wrong advice - all the interviewing should be left to the authorities. I hope that has been corrected (it would be good if a correction could be posted together with this information on the WINGS website). Yes fixit I hope so but he did refer to the criminal amongst the NZ workers. That didn't sound like past tense to me!! I agree that the written guideline wasn't perfect, but it was huge step in the right direction and needs to be acknowledged as such. Many of the issues people bring up on this forum (victims not being believed and not having the support of the workers) are covered in these guidelines.
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Post by snow on Apr 27, 2015 22:49:58 GMT -5
That's great! Do you feel that all the members of the churches in NZ are now aware of the problem and what to do? What exactly was said if you don't mind repeating it here? You can read it on wings. By churches are you refering to our church or churches in general. As far as iur church - I dont know if all members are aware of what to do but it has been spoken about openly and written guidelines given. A great start. Lets hope other countries follow that example. Thank you Tom. Yes I meant the 2x2 members/churches in NZ. It is a great start. I think it's important that the workers lead in this area making sure no one is afraid to report CSA. There have been incidences in the past when unfortunately this has happened.
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Post by fixit on Apr 28, 2015 0:27:07 GMT -5
I assume Curly is referring to past workers - not any current NZ worker. I agree that people must go to the authorities if they have a problem. In the NZ overseer's guideline sent to all NZ workers August 2012 he said some good things and covered the topic quite thoroughly, but unfortunately he advised interviewing perpetrators and victims (with parents present). That's wrong advice - all the interviewing should be left to the authorities. I hope that has been corrected (it would be good if a correction could be posted together with this information on the WINGS website). Yes fixit I hope so but he did refer to the criminal amongst the NZ workers. That didn't sound like past tense to me!! I agree that the written guideline wasn't perfect, but it was huge step in the right direction and needs to be acknowledged as such. Many of the issues people bring up on this forum (victims not being believed and not having the support of the workers) are covered in these guidelines. It's a great start but the guidelines were only distributed to workers, as far as I know. I hope Curly will clarify his statement because it could cause people to put all of the innocent NZ brother workers under suspicion. That is grossly unfair and counter-productive.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 28, 2015 2:42:32 GMT -5
Review I believe I have verified the facts, awaiting your response on how your church views re-baptism of ex-workers/ministers who have been charged with CSA.
I would think your main concern would be about your own church not the Anglican Church, after all your church likes to preach about being the only "Right Way" so maybe you should be making sure it is indeed "Perfect".
Or are you going to admit that maybe it isn't the only "Right Way" after all !!
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 28, 2015 2:48:06 GMT -5
Looks like Mr Review is upset. Attachments:
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Post by Mary on Apr 28, 2015 4:01:03 GMT -5
As Ross said, you used those words to a range of people not just him.
Don't you think you should be an example of Godliness on this board rather than someone who calls people names.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 28, 2015 4:26:28 GMT -5
I was just pondering that on this thread that the worker, Review005, has told a range of members that they have the following personal characteristics, behaviour or qualities: - stupid - unpleasant - lacking integrity and sincerity - unpleasant - coercive - audacious - morally bankrupt - hypocrites - ostrich head in the sand - patronising - arrogant - glasshouse member - cigar smoker - disparaging - graffiti vandals - brain out of gear - mischievous Similar words have been used on past threads against professing folk, elders and ex-members of the group - none have been spared. Is this the standard operating model for workers when questions or issues are asked about their fellowship and what they believe? You forgot a few, as no doubt I have as well, - there are so many!
-loose cannon -like Pharisee's -Nero fiddling -howlers -lady atheists -too much time on our hands/not enough to do/
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 28, 2015 4:48:12 GMT -5
Excuse me Ross Bowden but it was I that used the term morally bankrupt in relation to Clyde Mackay and baptism of the kiddy fiddler. We have not seen Mr Review refute that so presumably he agrees that Clyde Mackay is morally bankrupt.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 28, 2015 13:12:31 GMT -5
a) reread your own posts, you'll perhaps be surprised. b) Look I'm sorry but if you look you'll the terms are accurate and correct according to non Anglican Anglican posters posts. A lot of your "negative" name calling has nothing to do with the Anglican church or Bowden.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 29, 2015 17:12:36 GMT -5
Look Curls, I think the best thing to do is for you to wait for a cheap flight to Sydney. (don't want it to bankrupt you). Ross will meet you at the airport, put you up and then take you for a session with the man himself. Now Ross & Clyde are best of buddies, Ross adores him, he'll arrange a coffee no problem. So you'll then have it from the his mouth and you can make a 'no nonsense' post!
Now come Sunday morning Ross & family will take you along to their Anglican Church (that isn't Anglican.) Don't worry if you miss something/need to hear it again, they have this useful facility that you can listen to the very good Minister's sermons 10 times over if wish on the web. dear ross even provides the link for us on this thread a while ago!
It is this kind of cheap shot sarcasm toward people that indicates that you have no real concern for the problems facing the 2x2's or F&W's, or what ever other name we were or are now known by.
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Post by Mary on Apr 29, 2015 19:48:58 GMT -5
I hope that I am as functioning as dmm.. is when I am her age. She posts less on this board than a lot of us so to suggest she has too much time on her hands is just a put down of her on your part.
She Is retired so has the privilege of doing what she wants with her day without having to be accountable to us for how she spends her day. Obviously she spent years caring for others so time for her to enjoy her retirement.
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Post by fixit on Apr 29, 2015 21:05:59 GMT -5
dmg, looks to me like you are having another day of too much time & too little to do. But I guess you enjoy it and can't find anything more interesting to do , so keep it up. enjoy You seem to be the only one on TMB who comments about the time people spend here.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 29, 2015 21:10:09 GMT -5
dmg, looks to me like you are having another day of too much time & too little to do. But I guess you enjoy it and can't find anything more interesting to do , so keep it up. enjoy Actually, review005, I raked the garden that my son had roto-tilled, and planted my first batch of peas. I did a little experiment. I put an inoculant on the seed.
We put on the inoculant years ago, but I left off doing it for several years. I decided to try it again this year on half the seeds and try to determine if it makes any difference. It really isn't anything new. I remember my parents putting inoculant on seed. I also tried to find out what may have happened to my friend that had went to Nepal many years ago as an missionary, -no luck.
I mailed off a book, Hitler's Secret Book, that was dictated by him in 1928 on his foreign policy. (I have quite a large library of books -over a thousand, counting sheet music - we have accumulated though the years that I am now selling on line at Amazon)
-Excuse me folks, for inserting a small ad)
http://www.amazon.com/shops/AYGUIC3EFYOOV
Review005, I don't suppose that you would care to tell us what you did today.
(Non-gardeners can skip this little lesson) A brief & quick lesson on how inoculants work.
"Legumes convert atmospheric nitrogen to usable ammonia nitrogen for the plant. Inoculation is the process of introducing commercially prepared rhizobia bacteria into the soil. Each legume species requires a specific species of rhizobia to form nodules and fix nitrogen." "The air we breathe contains more than 78 percent nitrogen in the form of nitrogen gas (N2). Legumes have the unique ability to form a symbiotic relationship with rhizobia (Rhizobium and Bradyrhizobium) bacteria to convert atmospheric nitrogen gas to ammonia nitrogen, a form usable by the plant. This relationship occurs in specialized root tissue called nodules. Some legumes, such as alfalfa, can produce enough ammonia to supply all their nitrogen needs (Table 1), hence nitrogen fertilization usually is not needed." "The relationship between the legume and rhizobia is symbiotic, or mutually beneficial. The bacteria invade plant root hairs and multiply in the outer root tissue.The plant forms tissue that acts as a protective enclosure around the bacteria. The plant also supplies energy to the bacteria from photosynthesis. For their part, the bacteria convert nitrogen gas to ammonia in the nodules."
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 29, 2015 21:11:55 GMT -5
I hope that I am as functioning as dmm.. is when I am her age. She posts less on this board than a lot of us so to suggest she has too much time on her hands is just a put down of her on your part. She Is retired so has the privilege of doing what she wants with her day without having to be accountable to us for how she spends her day. Obviously she spent years caring for others so time for her to enjoy her retirement. Thanks, Mary.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 30, 2015 2:54:42 GMT -5
Yes fixit I hope so but he did refer to the criminal amongst the NZ workers. That didn't sound like past tense to me!! I agree that the written guideline wasn't perfect, but it was huge step in the right direction and needs to be acknowledged as such. Many of the issues people bring up on this forum (victims not being believed and not having the support of the workers) are covered in these guidelines. It's a great start but the guidelines were only distributed to workers, as far as I know. I hope Curly will clarify his statement because it could cause people to put all of the innocent NZ brother workers under suspicion. That is grossly unfair and counter-productive. Or you could look at it like this. They have collectively chosen to protect the criminal and keep his company. they made their bed, they lie in it.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 30, 2015 3:06:48 GMT -5
Look Curls, I think the best thing to do is for you to wait for a cheap flight to Sydney. (don't want it to bankrupt you). Ross will meet you at the airport, put you up and then take you for a session with the man himself. Now Ross & Clyde are best of buddies, Ross adores him, he'll arrange a coffee no problem. So you'll then have it from the his mouth and you can make a 'no nonsense' post!
Now come Sunday morning Ross & family will take you along to their Anglican Church (that isn't Anglican.) Don't worry if you miss something/need to hear it again, they have this useful facility that you can listen to the very good Minister's sermons 10 times over if wish on the web. dear ross even provides the link for us on this thread a while ago!
It is this kind of cheap shot sarcasm toward people that indicates that you have no real concern for the problems facing the 2x2's or F&W's, or what ever other name we were or are now known by.Thanks Dmm for your support. Some people such as Mr Review have a need to use sarcasm, a need to bully, a need to use put downs and denigrate other people. This is for a variety of reasons such as they are natural bullies for some reason such as poor parenting or their siblings picked on them. Others have low self esteem and to feel better about themselves they use the above tactics to try and put people beneath them in the pecking order. Mr Review is not the first worker to use these tactics, nor will he be the last. He may very well have learnt these tricks from past masters of the art such as John the Brasted, Les Hill, Dave Megaw or Rex Smith as examples in NZ. Put downs are used to keep control of people as well. Unfortunately it doesn't work once the recipient leaves "The Way" It also seems that they don't like the roles reversed. A good sign of their real character.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 30, 2015 4:22:37 GMT -5
It is this kind of cheap shot sarcasm toward people that indicates that you have no real concern for the problems facing the 2x2's or F&W's, or what ever other name we were or are now known by. Thanks Dmm for your support. Some people such as Mr Review have a need to use sarcasm, a need to bully, a need to use put downs and denigrate other people. This is for a variety of reasons such as they are natural bullies for some reason such as poor parenting or their siblings picked on them. Others have low self esteem and to feel better about themselves they use the above tactics to try and put people beneath them in the pecking order Mr Review is not the first worker to use these tactics, nor will he be the last.He may very well have learnt these tricks from past masters of the art such as John the Brasted, Les Hill, Dave Megaw or Rex Smith as examples in NZ. Put downs are used to keep control of people as well. Unfortunately it doesn't work once the recipient leaves "The Way" It also seems that they don't like the roles reversed. A good sign of their real character. I agree, -he is not the first worker to use these tactics. Not all, -thankfully, -but certainly many.
Sometimes, it is simply because they haven't an answer. Then they might resort to the use of a logical fallacy.
"logical fallacy of appeal to ridicule, reductio ad ridiculum occurs when humor, usually ridicule or sarcasm, is used to divert attention away from the discussion or to make the other side appear foolish. "
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Post by Mary on Apr 30, 2015 5:20:27 GMT -5
I would be shocked if any pastor of any church that I belonged to ever spoke to people like you do, review. I wouldn't choose to sit under his teaching.
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 30, 2015 5:45:56 GMT -5
Mary, I was thinking the exact same thing !
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Post by Mary on Apr 30, 2015 6:33:05 GMT -5
True to form Review. I have no bitterness. It seems you are the one who carries the bitterness against many who have left.
A pastor would not try and push people away who did not agree with him. He would show love. Leave the 99 for the one.
Its like you don't care about those who leave your fellowship. If they question you or don't agree with you you try and get rid of them.
I am sure that most in your fellowship would not agree with how you speak to people on this board. Most do not speak like you do.
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Post by Mary on Apr 30, 2015 6:52:34 GMT -5
I can imagine my pastor saying, I am sorry you feel that way and if there is any way I can help you change your perception of the fellowship I am open to suggestions. I will certainly look at the issues you have raised. You are welcome to continue fellowshipping with us but if you feel this is not where you feel God wants you to be at this point in time I will pray that he bless you where ever you choose to fellowship. Would you like me to pray with you? He would send them off with his blessing and the option to return if he wants.
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Post by snow on Apr 30, 2015 12:33:39 GMT -5
dmg, looks to me like you are having another day of too much time & too little to do. But I guess you enjoy it and can't find anything more interesting to do , so keep it up. enjoy Why is it you constantly cut people down? Why do you do that?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 14:20:26 GMT -5
dmg, looks to me like you are having another day of too much time & too little to do. But I guess you enjoy it and can't find anything more interesting to do , so keep it up. enjoy Why is it you constantly cut people down? Why do you do that? there are only a few here VERY FEW that don't take jabs at the opposite side...
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hberry
Senior Member
Posts: 743
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Post by hberry on Apr 30, 2015 14:30:53 GMT -5
Why is it you constantly cut people down? Why do you do that? there are only a few here VERY FEW that don't take jabs at the opposite side... That might be true, but does that make it right? And if so, why not be one of the few who takes the high road? (And that applies to me as well)
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 30, 2015 15:02:06 GMT -5
dmg and curls, you got it right, your decision to leave the church that has many controlling bullying workers who use logical fallacies. As I noted in my post, review005, --not all workers use bullying tactics-(thankfully.)
My father was in the work before he married, and since he never used sarcastic bullying tactics on his family, -I feel sure that he also didn't use such tactics while he was a worker.
As I was growing up, I also knew many other workers who also didn't use such tactics. So I do know such workers do exist .
What I don't know is why some workers use such tactics, but indeed I have known a few that did.
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Post by Mary on Apr 30, 2015 15:21:06 GMT -5
It seems like you are using this board for cathartic release. This is obvious by the names you call people. There is nothing wrong with writing books or websites on a church a person has left.
The reason those in meetings don't write books on the church they left is because they have not left any church. Over 99% of people in meetings today grew up in it. The workers call ministers hirelings, false, and all sorts of names. Those who came from churches in the old days had plenty to say about the churches they left and it was very noticeable and as some people said embarrassing the way the workers put down other churches. People did not write books those days or have the internet like we do today.
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Post by matisse on Apr 30, 2015 15:31:27 GMT -5
It seems like you are using this board for cathartic release. This is obvious by the names you call people. There is nothing wrong wit writing books or websites on a church a person has left. The reason those in meetings don't write books on the church they left is because they have not left any church. Over 99% of people in meetings today grew up in it. Those who came from churches in the old days had plenty to say about the churches they left and it was very noticeable and as some people said embarrassing the way the workers put down other churches. People did not write books those days or have the internet like we do today. Good point, Mary. Growing up in the 1960'a and 1970's, I remember various denominations being ridiculed from the platform at Convention. Catholics, especially, along with Billy Graham. There was a lot of name calling And negativity.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 15:52:58 GMT -5
I heard that MANY MEN of MANY MINDS made MANY RELIGIONS OF MANY KINDS!
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