|
Post by rational on Mar 15, 2015 7:33:56 GMT -5
Ratz I saw you had posted somewhere that if you had hallucinations..etc you would head to doc. My question is if you had an angel appear at the end of your bed in the middle of the night. Telling you how you got ill and how to treat it. Is it the notion of seeing something supernatural that disturbs you or the fear of loosing your mind? Why would you seek medical help when you should be going to someone who understands soiritual things. If you saw the Flying Spaghetti Monster at the end of your bed would you wait for him/her to reach out with his/her noodly appendage to cure you and follow its instructions regarding anything or attribute it to a dream? If it was a recurring dream that began to interfere with your life would you embrace it or seek help from a mental health professional? Hallucinations are not, in my world, spiritual things. The notion of having an hallucination, visual or auditory, does not disturb me other than to point to the fact that all within my nervous system is not working as designed. Of course, if we accept the possibility that it was an actual spirit of some sort it would be able to provide proof. So, when you see the next spirit, have it provide proof and we can move on from there.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Mar 15, 2015 11:41:30 GMT -5
Knowing how scientists can stimulate certain areas of the brain to illicit hallucinations, I would not put a lot of confidence in an angel standing at the end of my bed as being anything but a figment of my brain malfunctioning. We truly are just the consequence of how our brain is functioning and how healthy it is. We know that injuries to different areas of the brain will create total personality changes. If our personality is not governed by the brain, how we think etc., then there should be no change in personality when the brain itself is physically altered in anyway. We know that we can make a person feel miserable or euphoric just by touching a different area in the brain. So why would we put any confidence in a hallucination being anything other than a malfunction in the normal workings of the human brain?
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Mar 15, 2015 13:41:11 GMT -5
Ratz I saw you had posted somewhere that if you had hallucinations..etc you would head to doc. My question is if you had an angel appear at the end of your bed in the middle of the night. Telling you how you got ill and how to treat it. Is it the notion of seeing something supernatural that disturbs you or the fear of loosing your mind? Why would you seek medical help when you should be going to someone who understands soiritual things. If you saw the Flying Spaghetti Monster at the end of your bed would you wait for him/her to reach out with his/her noodly appendage to cure you and follow its instructions regarding anything or attribute it to a dream? If it was a recurring dream that began to interfere with your life would you embrace it or seek help from a mental health professional? Hallucinations are not, in my world, spiritual things. The notion of having an hallucination, visual or auditory, does not disturb me other than to point to the fact that all within my nervous system is not working as designed. Of course, if we accept the possibility that it was an actual spirit of some sort it would be able to provide proof. So, when you see the next spirit, have it provide proof and we can move on from there. Your first comment is obtuse. It was not a stupid question. BTW I dont see a lot of spirits. Geez.. You can be very insulting. Hallucinations are usually caused by mind altering substances. I wasnt referring to that.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Mar 15, 2015 15:54:03 GMT -5
Your first comment is obtuse. Some of us are not as articulate as others. You know what they say, there are no stupid questions! No one does... How so? Hallucinations are caused by brain malfunction. There are many things that can cause the brain to malfunction, mind altering drugs are certainly one of them.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Mar 15, 2015 15:58:30 GMT -5
If you saw the Flying Spaghetti Monster at the end of your bed would you wait for him/her to reach out with his/her noodly appendage to cure you and follow its instructions regarding anything or attribute it to a dream? If it was a recurring dream that began to interfere with your life would you embrace it or seek help from a mental health professional? Hallucinations are not, in my world, spiritual things. The notion of having an hallucination, visual or auditory, does not disturb me other than to point to the fact that all within my nervous system is not working as designed. Of course, if we accept the possibility that it was an actual spirit of some sort it would be able to provide proof. So, when you see the next spirit, have it provide proof and we can move on from there. Your first comment is obtuse. It was not a stupid question. BTW I dont see a lot of spirits. Geez.. You can be very insulting. Hallucinations are usually caused by mind altering substances. I wasnt referring to that. Unfortunately, it doesn't have to be a "consumed" mind altering substance, not an "unintentionally consumed" mind altering substance ... for it to cause a hallucination. Those are the kind of people who have most "revelations". Perfectly normal people can be producing their own mind altering "substances" without ever knowing it, and if they don't accept that such things happen (scientists estimate 25 percent do this on occasion) they can easily attribute the vision to a special visitation by the divine. That's how "revelation" originated -- how else can any other non-scientific educated person understand anything else from the experience?
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Mar 21, 2015 6:30:35 GMT -5
Your first comment is obtuse. Some of us are not as articulate as others. You know what they say, there are no stupid questions! No one does... How so? Hallucinations are caused by brain malfunction. There are many things that can cause the brain to malfunction, mind altering drugs are certainly one of them. You have a high and lofty manner sometimes. That is insulting.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Mar 21, 2015 9:03:22 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by rational on Mar 21, 2015 11:34:24 GMT -5
You have a high and lofty manner sometimes. That is insulting. Can you provide an example? Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Mar 21, 2015 15:36:24 GMT -5
If you saw the Flying Spaghetti Monster at the end of your bed would you wait for him/her to reach out with his/her noodly appendage to cure you and follow its instructions regarding anything or attribute it to a dream? If it was a recurring dream that began to interfere with your life would you embrace it or seek help from a mental health professional? Hallucinations are not, in my world, spiritual things. The notion of having an hallucination, visual or auditory, does not disturb me other than to point to the fact that all within my nervous system is not working as designed. Of course, if we accept the possibility that it was an actual spirit of some sort it would be able to provide proof. So, when you see the next spirit, have it provide proof and we can move on from there. Your first comment is obtuse. It was not a stupid question. BTW I dont see a lot of spirits. Geez.. You can be very insulting. Hallucinations are usually caused by mind altering substances. I wasnt referring to that. This post and your comments. I know you are trying to be amusing. Which is fine. Except it was a serious question. You dont think your world is more than 3 dimensional. Possibly 2 dimensions most of the time. The fact is there is more you just dont/cant accept. Because people are different to you does not make you superior to them. Just different in diversity. Upbringing, heritage, race, education, personality, socio economic group Conversation is a two way thing. On this site we have all (most) originated from 2x2 faith/christian group. Because of that most believed they are spirit/soul/body. There is a basic understanding of this. Because you worship the god of the facts, you simply cant see beyond that. That doesnt mean you know everything worth knowing or that you know ALL things. It is the last paragraph that PMB! Implying Im some kind of flakey nutter who walks around looking for spirits to chat and woffle on about. I have never had an angel appear in my room and if it did happen id be the first to ask it who it is where it came from and whose name it comes and a cluster of other things. I dont agree with your analyisis of seers either. Now that Ive got that off my chest. You owe me an apology for meaness and charactor assassination. Think Ive covered it!
|
|
|
Post by rational on Mar 21, 2015 23:25:48 GMT -5
This post and your comments. I know you are trying to be amusing. No I wasn't/ I was presenting an absurd situation as an allegory. You asked a question and I decided to respond in an allegorically manner. It is generally considered to be a valid teaching methodology. Considering the world in two dimensions would indeed be silly. We could go into the aspects of a 2-D world but I think it might be best to refer you to Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions by Edwin Abbott. I frequently work on concepts that are multidimensional. When you consider more than 3 dimensions is it like the ten dimensions required to describe string theory? I believe I can understand that more that three dimensions but I can't help but wonder if we are considering dimensions in the same way. No, it certainly doesn't. I certainly have never made that claim. So one would think. As an atheist, I have no god to worship. But yes, I do like to see things stated stated as facts supported by verifiable data.No, I don't know nearly everything worth knowing and certainly not everything. When I do post I have stated many times if someone believes that what I have posted is not accurate they should question and ask for verification. Did I imply this? Can you point me do the post{s}? OK. This is easy to rectify. Present some data where seers have been tested and verified that they were indeed seers (seer - a person who is supposed to be able, through supernatural insight, to see what the future holds). This has been done many times. Not any positive results. If you will kindly point out the posts in which I have wronged you, as you claim, I will be happy to either explain or apologize. OK.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Mar 22, 2015 17:06:06 GMT -5
This post and your comments. I know you are trying to be amusing. No I wasn't/ I was presenting an absurd situation as an allegory. You asked a question and I decided to respond in an allegorically manner. It is generally considered to be a valid teaching methodology. Considering the world in two dimensions would indeed be silly. We could go into the aspects of a 2-D world but I think it might be best to refer you to Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions by Edwin Abbott. I frequently work on concepts that are multidimensional. When you consider more than 3 dimensions is it like the ten dimensions required to describe string theory? I believe I can understand that more that three dimensions but I can't help but wonder if we are considering dimensions in the same way. No, it certainly doesn't. I certainly have never made that claim. So one would think. As an atheist, I have no god to worship. But yes, I do like to see things stated stated as facts supported by verifiable data.No, I don't know nearly everything worth knowing and certainly not everything. When I do post I have stated many times if someone believes that what I have posted is not accurate they should question and ask for verification. Did I imply this? Can you point me do the post{s}? OK. This is easy to rectify. Present some data where seers have been tested and verified that they were indeed seers (seer - a person who is supposed to be able, through supernatural insight, to see what the future holds). This has been done many times. Not any positive results. If you will kindly point out the posts in which I have wronged you, as you claim, I will be happy to either explain or apologize. OK. As I said I have covered it. It is there for you to read. Im not repeating myself.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Mar 23, 2015 0:32:56 GMT -5
As I said I have covered it. It is there for you to read. Im not repeating myself. OK. So you will not be offering any references to support your claims?
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Mar 23, 2015 1:18:10 GMT -5
As I said I have covered it. It is there for you to read. Im not repeating myself. OK. So you will not be offering any references to support your claims? Where did I mention a claim in this convo? It was about a question I asked you. As usual you have been predictable as the master Puppeter of words.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Mar 23, 2015 10:32:47 GMT -5
OK. So you will not be offering any references to support your claims? Where did I mention a claim in this convo? It was about a question I asked you. As usual you have been predictable as the master Puppeter of words. You didn't and that is the problem. When I mentioned that seers have been examined and shown to be wanting when supporting their claims you said you didn't like that response. My response to your complaint was that you could counter what I said by presenting some verification that they can indeed predict the future, as you have claimed.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Mar 23, 2015 14:42:09 GMT -5
Where did I mention a claim in this convo? It was about a question I asked you. As usual you have been predictable as the master Puppeter of words. You didn't and that is the problem. When I mentioned that seers have been examined and shown to be wanting when supporting their claims you said you didn't like that response. My response to your complaint was that you could counter what I said by presenting some verification that they can indeed predict the future, as you have claimed. Dialoge with you is now over for me. Ive tried to explain many experiences as a christian including a gift I was given by the lord and the holy spirit. I have been patient and enduring your negative comments that have no understanding of a life that has walked with the holy spirit and a desire to serve their maker. Ive opened up my heart in genuine honesty. Im too much of a people pleaser and now can see the lack of wisdom in my choices and descions of how much I have revealed. My life for all its ups and downs joys and heart ache has been richly blessed for knowing the lord. Much I held back because of the negative comments from atheists like you. I leave with the hope that I have inspired at least one person with the love that I hold in my heart for my maker. No one can take that from me. I believe the best for you. I wont be posting again if ever.
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Mar 23, 2015 15:17:55 GMT -5
You didn't and that is the problem. When I mentioned that seers have been examined and shown to be wanting when supporting their claims you said you didn't like that response. My response to your complaint was that you could counter what I said by presenting some verification that they can indeed predict the future, as you have claimed. Dialoge with you is now over for me. Ive tried to explain many experiences as a christian including a gift I was given by the lord and the holy spirit. I have been patient and enduring your negative comments that have no understanding of a life that has walked with the holy spirit and a desire to serve their maker. Ive opened up my heart in genuine honesty. Im too much of a people pleaser and now can see the lack of wisdom in my choices and descions of how much I have revealed. My life for all its ups and downs joys and heart ache has been richly blessed for knowing the lord. Much I held back because of the negative comments from atheists like you. I leave with the hope that I have inspired at least one person with the love that I hold in my heart for my maker. No one can take that from me. I believe the best for you. I wont be posting again if ever. Bubbles, don't go! You're entitled to your beliefs no matter what anyone says. I like what you write. I'm just like you, I believe the Spirit guides us always. It doesn't matter what others think of us. They have they're beliefs, we have ours. I would love to tell my experiences and things I've understood but there's no way I would do that on here either! I've learnt my lesson! I hope you change your mind. :-)
|
|
|
Post by SharonArnold on Mar 23, 2015 15:30:47 GMT -5
Dialoge with you is now over for me. Ive tried to explain many experiences as a christian including a gift I was given by the lord and the holy spirit. I have been patient and enduring your negative comments that have no understanding of a life that has walked with the holy spirit and a desire to serve their maker. Ive opened up my heart in genuine honesty. Im too much of a people pleaser and now can see the lack of wisdom in my choices and descions of how much I have revealed. My life for all its ups and downs joys and heart ache has been richly blessed for knowing the lord. Much I held back because of the negative comments from atheists like you. I leave with the hope that I have inspired at least one person with the love that I hold in my heart for my maker. No one can take that from me. I believe the best for you. I wont be posting again if ever. Bubbles, don't go! You're entitled to your beliefs no matter what anyone says. I like what you write. I'm just like you, I believe the Spirit guides us always. It doesn't matter what others think of us. They have they're beliefs, we have ours. I would love to tell my experiences and things I've understood but there's no way I would do that on here either! I've learnt my lesson! I hope you change your mind. :-) Hey, bubbles, give your head a shake. You have an important place on this board. Your voice and your truth is important. And if anyone thinks the God of reason or rationality trumps any other, I would have a personal discussion with them. As maryhig says "The spirit guides us always." (Don't give in to the "dark side".)
|
|
|
Post by rational on Mar 23, 2015 15:31:48 GMT -5
You didn't and that is the problem. When I mentioned that seers have been examined and shown to be wanting when supporting their claims you said you didn't like that response. My response to your complaint was that you could counter what I said by presenting some verification that they can indeed predict the future, as you have claimed. Dialoge with you is now over for me. after 10+ years? Stop and think - I have also responded in genuine honesty. I am pretty sure you would not want me to lie to you what you ask me questions. I have sent you a PM.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Mar 25, 2015 5:47:06 GMT -5
Bubbles, don't go! You're entitled to your beliefs no matter what anyone says. I like what you write. I'm just like you, I believe the Spirit guides us always. It doesn't matter what others think of us. They have they're beliefs, we have ours. I would love to tell my experiences and things I've understood but there's no way I would do that on here either! I've learnt my lesson! I hope you change your mind. :-) Hey, bubbles, give your head a shake. You have an important place on this board. Your voice and your truth is important. And if anyone thinks the God of reason or rationality trumps any other, I would have a personal discussion with them. As maryhig says "The spirit guides us always." (Don't give in to the "dark side".) Maryhig Thanks for being there. X Sharon When I read your post it was like a good kick in the butt. you are so right woman. Thank you. X
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Mar 25, 2015 5:53:00 GMT -5
Ratz Think I need to rattle your cage a bit longer..
|
|
|
Post by rational on Mar 25, 2015 8:09:23 GMT -5
Ratz Think I need to rattle your cage a bit longer..;) Feel free. But remember, your cage may be rattled as well!
|
|
|
Post by SharonArnold on Mar 25, 2015 10:18:39 GMT -5
Maryhig Thanks for being there. X Sharon When I read your post it was like a good kick in the butt. you are so right woman. Thank you. X bubbles, I am glad you are sticking around. Sorry, I did not mean to sound harsh. I was unaware of the dialog on the Admin thread - I might have rephrased what I said if I had known. But the sentiment would have remained the same. Your voice is important here. Your feistiness and spirit are even more important. With exposure to other internet forums through the years, I have found (that no matter how admirable the participants) the ones that have too much agreement don't tend last long, even though there is sometimes a need for kinder gentler environments. I think Don Miguel Ruiz's Four Agreements offers some valuable advice for life (and particularly forums like these): 1. Be Impeccable with your Word Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the Word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your Word in the direction of truth and love. 2. Don’t Take Anything Personally Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering. 3. Don’t Make Assumptions Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life. 4. Always Do Your Best Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Mar 25, 2015 14:10:17 GMT -5
Rat, You fill a helpful & useful place on this forum. Don't worry about negative comments made. They say more about the poster /writer than you. IMO this forum would be the poorer without your presence. The exclusive/discriminatory attitude and postings by those who claim to be Christian against those without such a belief is revealing and surprising. I wonder how you would cope with being interrogated in real life by members of the church in the way Rat cross-examines folks on this forum. It's interesting that workers seem to prefer exes to become Atheists rather that to remain Christians outside of worker control.
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Mar 25, 2015 15:34:21 GMT -5
Negativity and attacking the person is what to expect from a worker. Nothing has changed and this is proof that it still continues.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Mar 25, 2015 15:40:26 GMT -5
Review005: I do appreciate your willingness to engage on TMB.
My motivation to discuss important issues with workers was quenched long ago, but if you encourage such discussion I applaud you for that.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Mar 25, 2015 15:51:21 GMT -5
Maryhig Thanks for being there. X Sharon When I read your post it was like a good kick in the butt. you are so right woman. Thank you. X bubbles, I am glad you are sticking around. Sorry, I did not mean to sound harsh. I was unaware of the dialog on the Admin thread - I might have rephrased what I said if I had known. But the sentiment would have remained the same. Your voice is important here. Your feistiness and spirit are even more important. With exposure to other internet forums through the years, I have found (that no matter how admirable the participants) the ones that have too much agreement don't tend last long, even though there is sometimes a need for kinder gentler environments. I think Don Miguel Ruiz's Four Agreements offers some valuable advice for life (and particularly forums like these): 1. Be Impeccable with your Word Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the Word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your Word in the direction of truth and love. 2. Don’t Take Anything Personally Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering. 3. Don’t Make Assumptions Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life. 4. Always Do Your Best Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret. Thank you Sharon, for the very good advice.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Mar 25, 2015 16:07:15 GMT -5
Maryhig Thanks for being there. X Sharon When I read your post it was like a good kick in the butt. you are so right woman. Thank you. X bubbles, I am glad you are sticking around. Sorry, I did not mean to sound harsh. I was unaware of the dialog on the Admin thread - I might have rephrased what I said if I had known. But the sentiment would have remained the same. Your voice is important here. Your feistiness and spirit are even more important. With exposure to other internet forums through the years, I have found (that no matter how admirable the participants) the ones that have too much agreement don't tend last long, even though there is sometimes a need for kinder gentler environments. I think Don Miguel Ruiz's Four Agreements offers some valuable advice for life (and particularly forums like these): 1. Be Impeccable with your Word Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the Word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your Word in the direction of truth and love. 2. Don’t Take Anything Personally Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering. 3. Don’t Make Assumptions Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life. 4. Always Do Your Best Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret. Sharon Firstly please dont feel the need to apologize. I loved your cheek it woke me up. The following quotes are good sound guidance. Thank you. Btw I love to read you posts I love the way you articulate words and your mind fascinates me. Please dont take that as flattery. (Hate flattery) its a compliment.
|
|
|
Post by bubbles on Mar 25, 2015 16:19:15 GMT -5
Sharon What I meant by agreement with the 2x2s for fellowship is this. There is much I see out of place. It isnt the peoples fault. That is a leadership issue which I have regulary spoke against over the yrs. After my last trip home. I was able to have fellowship with 2x2s. Grantedly they tread carefully with topics. Which my personality loves to stretch but good fellowship has to have a common ground of something..love? Peace? Good fellowship for me is when I learn from others. I have a gf and we push all boundaries are very vocal argue (healthily) and as we talk find the conclusion which generally is a discovery. We laugh our heads off at how we arrive at that place. Its usually deep..lol and fun.
|
|