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Post by rational on Jan 12, 2015 9:11:08 GMT -5
dmg,
According to Jesus Noah's flood wasn't a MYTH. He was comparing Noah's flood destruction to His second coming. According to Jesus the mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds. I don't think science was his strong suit.
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Post by rational on Jan 12, 2015 13:23:19 GMT -5
According to Jesus the mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds. I don't think science was his strong suit. Jesus was using the mustard seed in comparing the growth of His Church as time goes on.Twist it as you need to but.... “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field; and this is smaller than all other seeds; but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches.”See the text and how it is not a true statement?
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Post by rational on Jan 12, 2015 13:37:22 GMT -5
Twist it as you need to but.... “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field; and this is smaller than all other seeds; but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches.”See the text and how it is not a true statement? Jesus knew exactly what he was talking about because it has come true! His earthly tiny seed/Church began with only a few followers of fishermen, tax collector, etc.. now it has grown to many nations, and filled the whole earth. Is the mustard seed smaller than all other seeds as Jesus claimed? That would be a 'yes' or 'no' answer.
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Post by rational on Jan 12, 2015 16:44:48 GMT -5
Is the mustard seed smaller than all other seeds as Jesus claimed? That would be a 'yes' or 'no' answer. Alleged Biblical problemIn Matthew 13:31-32, Jesus said that the mustard seed was “smaller than all other seeds,” but that when it was full grown, it would be large enough for birds to nest in its branches. Today, we know that there are seeds even smaller than the mustard seed. For instance, the orchid seed is so small and fine that it’s almost dust-like. There are those who would also question whether a mustard seed could ever grow into a tree that is large enough to hold a bird nest. Good to know what the apologists think. Now back to the text. Are you saying that what is recorded is not what was meant? Or that at the time Jesus did not know about the smaller seeds? This seems logical to me. Jesus didn't know about the smaller seeds nor know that the mustard plant was not the greatest of all herbs.
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Post by snow on Jan 12, 2015 21:34:36 GMT -5
We are all doomed when we start quoting Wiki. No matter I present my case that camels were domesticated centuries before Abraham. I don't think Abraham ever was domesticated... so you could be right...
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Post by snow on Jan 12, 2015 21:41:30 GMT -5
I watched a guy explain that the ark was more than big enough for all the animals because they only took on the baby dinosaurs. Now why didn't I think of that.
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Post by rational on Jan 12, 2015 22:16:43 GMT -5
I watched a guy explain that the ark was more than big enough for all the animals because they only took on the baby dinosaurs. Now why didn't I think of that. Should have gone with their eggs!
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Post by snow on Jan 12, 2015 22:58:29 GMT -5
I watched a guy explain that the ark was more than big enough for all the animals because they only took on the baby dinosaurs. Now why didn't I think of that. Should have gone with their eggs! He probably didn't think of that. He was explaining why Noah just took baby animals on the ark. Why would you take an old grandpa like me when you could take my grandson was another comment he made. Wonder if he ever thought about how old Noah was supposed to be? The guy had all these numbers down to how it could have been done, how big it was etc and then he mentions the baby dinosaurs. Oh well.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 13, 2015 0:29:29 GMT -5
Rational, how is your head, the bit at the front above the eyes, sore from hitting that brick wall?
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Post by rational on Jan 13, 2015 0:42:31 GMT -5
Rational, how is your head, the bit at the front above the eyes, sore from hitting that brick wall? Some people believe there is brick wall. When it is only in the minds of those people there is nothing to fear! I had the x-ray taken just to check for head damage - as you can see from the results, all seems to be functioning normally!
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 13, 2015 0:51:32 GMT -5
I'm pleased for you. Often the most factual, easiest understood comments are made here, simple questions are asked and all are either ignored or answered with an answer that does not really answer the question. The sort of tactics a not overly bright politician would use.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 13, 2015 1:02:21 GMT -5
Rational, how is your head, the bit at the front above the eyes, sore from hitting that brick wall? Some people believe there is brick wall. When it is only in the minds of those people there is nothing to fear! I had the x-ray taken just to check for head damage - as you can see from the results, all seems to be functioning normally! My expert opinion as a pseudo-radiologist is that lighting up at the front of a brain (the aqua & reddish colors) is due a brain condition known as a rational reaction, therefore can be considered normal, -eh that is at least to rational people.
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Post by rational on Jan 13, 2015 13:23:39 GMT -5
Jesus is the creator of all things. Jesus KNEW exactly what he meant and the lesson he was trying to convey. He used a simple example so people in his days could understand.... A tiny seed grew up to a tree= His tiny church grows and become tree= fill the whole world. Jesus prophecy came true. Had he been omniscient he would have stated, as you did, regarding the tiny seed without making the error by inserting 'all'.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 13, 2015 15:00:21 GMT -5
Had he been omniscient he would have stated, as you did, regarding the tiny seed without making the error by inserting 'all'. Well, you can tell the omniscient when you meet him face to face after you died... He was for making the mistake of inserting the word "ALL". Perhaps, He can explain to you why he inserted the word "all" in there.
However, for me I understood the lesson Jesus was trying to teach.... Tiny seed grows as a tree= His Church started out as tiny but eventually it filled the whole earth with His Living Witnesses disciples and apostles. Ah, Nathan, "His" Church hasn't filled the whole world!
However, Jesus is even a part of Islamic religion. "Jesus in the New Testament, is considered to be a Messenger of God and in Islam[1][2]:30 who was sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new scripture, (the Gospel).[3]
The belief that Jesus is a prophet is required in Islam. This is reflected in the fact that he is clearly a significant figure in the Qur'an, appearing in 93 (or verses), though Noah, Adam and Moses appear with even greater frequency.[4]
wiki
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 13, 2015 16:22:40 GMT -5
Ah, Nathan, "His" Church hasn't filled the whole world!
However, Jesus is even a part of Islamic religion. "Jesus in the New Testament, is considered to be a Messenger of God and in Islam[1][2]:30 who was sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new scripture, (the Gospel).[3]
The belief that Jesus is a prophet is required in Islam. This is reflected in the fact that he is clearly a significant figure in the Qur'an, appearing in 93 (or verses), though Noah, Adam and Moses appear with even greater frequency.[4]
wiki Abraham had two sons: Ismael and Isaac.
Ishmael grew to become a skilled hunter and archer. He fathered the nomadic Arab nations. Ishmael did his part to help fulfill God's promise to prosper him. He realized the importance of family and had 12 sons. Their warrior tribes eventually inhabited most of the countries in the Middle East. Islam is Arabs religion.
Isaac fathered the children of Israel. Both Ismael and Isaac believed in the God of the Old Testament= Allah and Yahweh. Both believe Jesus is the prophet.
Really? Nathan, do you think I didn't know that?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 13, 2015 17:26:43 GMT -5
Really? Nathan, do you think I didn't know that?
Then why did you say His church didn't fill the whole earth? Because His church DOESN'T fill the whole earth!
Are you saying that Asian countries aren't part of the "whole earth?"
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Post by rational on Jan 13, 2015 19:10:32 GMT -5
The biblical concept of "the whole earth" also calls the idea of an omniscient being guiding the creation of the bible into question.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 19:50:18 GMT -5
The biblical concept of "the whole earth" also calls the idea of an omniscient being guiding the creation of the bible into question. In the Bronze Age Jacob told his son Juda that from him would come a nation and a monarchy, and he would be guardian to The Law. And it would last until the Messiah, in whom all the world would believe. This all happened.
In reading such a verse we can do the following four options: 1 - treat is a prophecy 2 - see God as ruling over the affairs of the world 3 - see Jacob's verse as pure dumb luck - a one in a thousand trillion 4 - ignore it.
I hold to options 1 and 2. Option 4 is the one followed by close all bible critics.
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Post by Gene on Jan 13, 2015 20:04:36 GMT -5
How did the tree living, eucalyptus eating, slow moving, Australian Koala get from Ararat to Australia? How did the South American tree sloth get from Ararat down to South America? What makes the elephant charge his tusk in the misty mist or the dusky dusk? What makes the muskrat guard his musk? Courage.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 20:46:58 GMT -5
Like yourself Gene, maybe I need to learn not take anything here too seriously.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 14, 2015 0:16:59 GMT -5
Ah, Nathan, "His" Church hasn't filled the whole world!
However, Jesus is even a part of Islamic religion. "Jesus in the New Testament, is considered to be a Messenger of God and in Islam[1][2]:30 who was sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new scripture, (the Gospel).[3]
The belief that Jesus is a prophet is required in Islam. This is reflected in the fact that he is clearly a significant figure in the Qur'an, appearing in 93 (or verses), though Noah, Adam and Moses appear with even greater frequency.[4]
wiki Abraham had two sons: Ismael and Isaac.
Ishmael grew to become a skilled hunter and archer. He fathered the nomadic Arab nations. Ishmael did his part to help fulfill God's promise to prosper him. He realized the importance of family and had 12 sons. Their warrior tribes eventually inhabited most of the countries in the Middle East. Islam is Arabs religion.
Isaac fathered the children of Israel. Both Ismael and Isaac believed in the God of the Old Testament= Allah and Yahweh. Both believe Jesus is the prophet.
I would be interested in a definition of Arab. I thought it was a reasonably modern term. Could there be Arab Christians, Arab Jews, Arab Muslims, Arab Animists? Anyone care to tell me more.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 14, 2015 3:57:17 GMT -5
Because His church DOESN'T fill the whole earth!
Are you saying that Asian countries aren't part of the "whole earth?"
The whole world has heard and many have known who Jesus is by now. All of them do NOT believe in Jesus but they know he is the Son of God.Y ou stated at the beginning that: (I quote)"His Church started out as tiny but eventually it filled the whole earth with His Living Witnesses disciples and apostles."
It is true that many people has heard of Jesus but certainly not everyone "knows he is the Son of God" as you say.
They would have to believe that he was/is the son of god & certainly not everyone believes that.
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Post by snow on Jan 14, 2015 12:48:42 GMT -5
Because His church DOESN'T fill the whole earth!
Are you saying that Asian countries aren't part of the "whole earth?"
The whole world has heard and many have known who Jesus is by now. All of them do NOT believe in Jesus but they know he is the Son of God.Nope, why would they know he is the son of God? Because some Christians say he is? Not a good reason really.
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Post by snow on Jan 14, 2015 12:57:20 GMT -5
Y ou stated at the beginning that: (I quote)"His Church started out as tiny but eventually it filled the whole earth with His Living Witnesses disciples and apostles."
It is true that many people has heard of Jesus but certainly not everyone "knows he is the Son of God" as you say.
They would have to believe that he was/is the son of god &certainly not everyone believes that. Most every country in the world know and celebrate Christmas, the birth of Jesus. He/Jesus foretold about the growth of tiny mustard seed 2000 yrs ago and it began at the Pentecost Acts 2:16-21
16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’ 5000 Jews saved, they came from 17 nations to celebrate the Pentecostal feast. This is the beginning of the Tiny Mustard seed beginning to grow and it becomes a big tree. The knowledge of Jesus has filled most every country in the world today. There has been hundreds, thousands, millions, billions of Christians exist in the world through the centuries.Nathan Christmas is a Pagan holiday long before Christ was supposedly born. Also Christ wasn't even born on December 25th so that is a bogus concept in and of itself. The whole Christmas thing was the return of the sun after it ends it's shorter days and goes back to increasing the amount of sunshine. It is the celebration of the Sun God which was called many different names in many different religions. It was also in honor of Saturn the Roman God of sowing and they celebrated the festival of Saturnalia as a harvest festival and to celebrate the return of the sun.
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Post by snow on Jan 14, 2015 15:01:08 GMT -5
Nope, why would they know he is the son of God? Because some Christians say he is? Not a good reason really. What do you mean NOPE? They are over Billions Christians who KNOW= have become Christians today.Nope was referring to 'the whole world knows he is the son of God'. They may have heard of Jesus but the whole world does not think he is the son of God, not by a long shot.
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Post by snow on Jan 14, 2015 15:04:47 GMT -5
Nathan Christmas is a Pagan holiday long before Christ was supposedly born. Also Christ wasn't even born on December 25th so that is a bogus concept in and of itself. The whole Christmas thing was the return of the sun after it ends it's shorter days and goes back to increasing the amount of sunshine. It is the celebration of the Sun God which was called many different names in many different religions. It was also in honor of Saturn the Roman God of sowing and they celebrated the festival of Saturnalia as a harvest festival and to celebrate the return of the sun. December, 25 is a pagan god birthday... but Jesus birth is real... He lived and died.... is real. At Christmas time people celebrate Jesus birth, they just got his birth day incorrectly, but his birth, life are REAL.Why do they celebrate on December 25th when they know it wasn't his birthday? Because Christmas is pagan in origin and they wanted to make it easier for pagans to become Christians without losing their festivals. Bit of a deception. Rather like the wells in the Celtic areas of the world. They were once named after Celtic priestesses and then when Christianity came along and demanded they change religions they just changed the names of the wells to a Christian saint. People don't know half of what Christianity is really based on. They have never bothered to study other religions and make the connections.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2015 15:38:15 GMT -5
December, 25 is a pagan god birthday... but Jesus birth is real... He lived and died.... is real. At Christmas time people celebrate Jesus birth, they just got his birth day incorrectly, but his birth, life are REAL. Why do they celebrate on December 25th when they know it wasn't his birthday? Because Christmas is pagan in origin and they wanted to make it easier for pagans to become Christians without losing their festivals. Bit of a deception. Rather like the wells in the Celtic areas of the world. They were once named after Celtic priestesses and then when Christianity came along and demanded they change religions they just changed the names of the wells to a Christian saint. People don't know half of what Christianity is really based on. They have never bothered to study other religions and make the connections. Proof again that they really couldn't care less -- all people are looking for is someone to underwrite their salvation. Jumping through the hoops is a lot easier than looking for the deception in the whole scheme.
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Post by snow on Jan 14, 2015 16:54:01 GMT -5
Nope was referring to 'the whole world knows he is the son of God'. They may have heard of Jesus but the whole world does not think he is the son of God, not by a long shot. Let me clarify .... The whole world has heard of Jesus but over billions of Christians believe he is the Son of God.That's better. But I do believe that there are tribes that have never heard of Jesus, especially in South America.
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