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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 29, 2014 22:02:40 GMT -5
Ram When we allow anyone to preach to us. We need to rightly divide what they are saying. I dont have much time or tolerance for preachers who dont use lots of scripture. Thats when I get lost in the comprehension. To quote one or two verses then preach for half an hour with no other reference just wont cut it for me. This is one reason I think any preacher teacher expounding on scripture needs some form of discipling/ mentoring/training. You didn't perhaps have the privilege of hearing any of Ron Thomke's sermons from one or two words taken out of the minor prophets, eh? One special mtg. in the afternoon mtg. which he led and was , of course, the main speaker, he spoke nearly 45 mins. about ONE word out of one of the minor prophets. Some were heard to say that what a sermon it was, to take one word and make such a sermon out of it! Well, it was a sermon few could remember much from a week or two later! As someone said, it is kind of hard to appreciate sermons that do not incorporate their own words around and into the scriptures, making the scriptures the main part of their sermon!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 0:12:28 GMT -5
my aunt(passed away in 1996)took notes for conventions and special mtg's and sunday mornings trouble is their all in shorthand! i have all these notes i could be reading but alas i don't know shorthand..what a shame...
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Post by bubbles on Nov 30, 2014 1:18:49 GMT -5
Ram When we allow anyone to preach to us. We need to rightly divide what they are saying. I dont have much time or tolerance for preachers who dont use lots of scripture. Thats when I get lost in the comprehension. To quote one or two verses then preach for half an hour with no other reference just wont cut it for me. This is one reason I think any preacher teacher expounding on scripture needs some form of discipling/ mentoring/training. You didn't perhaps have the privilege of hearing any of Ron Thomke's sermons from one or two words taken out of the minor prophets, eh? One special mtg. in the afternoon mtg. which he led and was , of course, the main speaker, he spoke nearly 45 mins. about ONE word out of one of the minor prophets. Some were heard to say that what a sermon it was, to take one word and make such a sermon out of it! Well, it was a sermon few could remember much from a week or two later! As someone said, it is kind of hard to appreciate sermons that do not incorporate their own words around and into the scriptures, making the scriptures the main part of their sermon! Hi No I dont know Ron. Some people waffle and dance all over the place when they preach. They dont stick to the topic. One word can be expounded. I wasnt referring to that str.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 1:49:42 GMT -5
my aunt(passed away in 1996)took notes for conventions and special mtg's and sunday mornings trouble is their all in shorthand! i have all these notes i could be reading but alas i don't know shorthand..what a shame... google shorthand you never know your luck
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 1:51:39 GMT -5
what do you think the signs would be in making it evident that Christ is missing from a church? Are you sure you want to know the answer? Ask the holy spirit. why write that?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 5:19:52 GMT -5
Yep, the church has one foundation and chief corner stone in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. If He is missing from a church, then that church cannot be right in a Christian setting.IMH when you say He what is meant by He? all His teachings? lets say that a church decided to introduce for their ministers to wear a certain artical around their waist which distiguished them in certain way but didn't follow the spirit of Jesus by elevating one's self, would that be a church that put forth different ideas from the spirit of Christ and they still preached Christ, would that church still be classed a true to Jesus church? You might not think so, I might not think so, but who are we to judge in such matters. Our thoughts are not God's thoughts and our ways are not God's ways; furthermore, what God does not allow He hinders.Why He Allows certain things is beyond our comprehension, but we are in no position to question God. There is a certain ex worker on this forum who told a personal story about his experience after a meeting. He and two older workers left the meeting by car, he sat in the front seat of the car with the driver, but he was made to get out and go to the back seat to allow the other older brother to travel in the front seat ( or so it is as I recall the story) on their way they were involved in a nasty car accident which killed the two older brothers in the front seats and his life was spared. Did this happen because they were ungodly people, and if they were not, why did God allow it to happen? As I have said in another thread not so long ago, such knowledge is too wonderful for us mere mortals. We have no authority to judge in spiritual matters, we state our opinions based on our understanding or lack of it; and so do the workers, Pastors and ministers ; this is sometimes referred to as Divine guidance; but is it? Your guess is as good as mine, no one is an expert in these matters, believe you me. ps. The thing about Devine guidance is that we have to be fairly convinced that the voice we are hearing is that of God and not that of the devil who is very clever and deceiving as it is stated that he can use various clever devices with which to deceive us.
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Post by bubbles on Nov 30, 2014 5:51:10 GMT -5
Are you sure you want to know the answer? Ask the holy spirit. why write that? Because the holy spirit is the one that gives revelation on what is wrong in churches. Remember the chapters on the 7 churches in Revelation?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 0:22:31 GMT -5
Because the holy spirit is the one that gives revelation on what is wrong in churches. Remember the chapters on the 7 churches in Revelation? well my dear you wouldn't think so when it comes to our fellowship on this board, you could fill a book on what people write and think is wrong in the fellowship. so go figure
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Post by bubbles on Dec 1, 2014 1:04:32 GMT -5
Yea imagine him giving a leader the revelation by..."I have this against you you tolerate Jezebel in your midst' I doubt it would go down to well.
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Post by Mary on Dec 1, 2014 1:43:34 GMT -5
Because the holy spirit is the one that gives revelation on what is wrong in churches. Remember the chapters on the 7 churches in Revelation? well my dear you wouldn't think so when it comes to our fellowship on this board, you could fill a book on what people write and think is wrong in the fellowship. so go figure Don't you think the Holy Spirit has shown some people what is wrong in the fellowship? Are people not supposed to say what the Holy Spirit has shown them? Why show it to them if they do not do anything with what they have been shown? Like Bubbles said, it was spoken out against in the Bible, even Jesus spoke out about what was wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 3:35:59 GMT -5
well my dear you wouldn't think so when it comes to our fellowship on this board, you could fill a book on what people write and think is wrong in the fellowship. so go figure Don't you think the Holy Spirit has shown some people what is wrong in the fellowship? Are people not supposed to say what the Holy Spirit has shown them? Why show it to them if they do not do anything with what they have been shown? Like Bubbles said, it was spoken out against in the Bible, even Jesus spoke out about what was wrong. well don't you think that the Holy Spirit has shown people in the fellowship what is wrong in other churches? and are they not supposed to say what the Holy Spirit has shown them? Why show it to them if they do not do anything with what they have been shown? it was spoken out against in the Bible, even Jesus spoke out about what was wrong, especially to the Pharisee what is good enough for the goose should be good enough for the gander don't you think?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 5:31:30 GMT -5
"what is good enough for the goose should be good enough for the gander don't you think?" Be careful how you answer this question because if the answer is yes then what is igood enough for what goes on in the fellowship should be good enough for what goes on in other churches, and vice versa , what goes on in other churches should be good enough for the fellowship, so logically, there will be no disputing just unity in Christ.
Goose = the fellowship gander= other churches
So good enough for goose = good enough for gander.= unity in Christ with some little differences of applications./ approaches. The important thing is Christ being in the midst of their gatherings for worship.
Let us be honest, the fellowship's ways of worship was organised by man; the words/terms used : "meetings" instead of the commonly used " church services" like some other churches use, " conventions," " Special meetings," " gospel meetings," " Workers," Elders," "overseers." All these terms are not really mentioned in scriptures but they have been adopted by the fellowship; yet we criticise other churches for introducing their particular terms reverend, pastor, bishop , deacons , priests etc. their forms of worship and celebrated festivals, then label them "worldly churches." I am sure that if you look more deeply you wil find other diversions and divisions which really do not really matter one way or another other than to cause division among believers and detract from the important business of serving God in a spirit of unity and brotherly/sisterly love in Christ Jesus who has made that ultimate sacrifice for us all. As I grow older, it make little sense to me because we are supposed to be serving the same God Based on the same scriptures as recorded in the Holy Bible but by putting our own interpretations and emphasis on areas that suit our own individual interests/ purposes in support of particular organisations,-- splitting hairs.
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Post by bubbles on Dec 1, 2014 7:15:33 GMT -5
Don't you think the Holy Spirit has shown some people what is wrong in the fellowship? Are people not supposed to say what the Holy Spirit has shown them? Why show it to them if they do not do anything with what they have been shown? Like Bubbles said, it was spoken out against in the Bible, even Jesus spoke out about what was wrong. well don't you think that the Holy Spirit has shown people in the fellowship what is wrong in other churches? and are they not supposed to say what the Holy Spirit has shown them? Why show it to them if they do not do anything with what they have been shown? it was spoken out against in the Bible, even Jesus spoke opout about what was wrong, especially to the Pharisee what is good enough for the goose should be good enough for the gander don't you think? Virgo I knew many churches that were open to the lord revealing anything that might be wrong that needed adjustment. Good leaders would institute change. Some churches are very conscious of not offending the holy spirit. They also recognise the fact the church belongs to Christ. Not the leaders. We used to have a saying 'some pastors have hijacked the church.' Im not talking about leaders who are hungry for power/money/glory/ girls. Good leaders will be open to hearing from god.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 8:04:25 GMT -5
well don't you think that the Holy Spirit has shown people in the fellowship what is wrong in other churches? and are they not supposed to say what the Holy Spirit has shown them? Why show it to them if they do not do anything with what they have been shown? it was spoken out against in the Bible, even Jesus spoke opout about what was wrong, especially to the Pharisee what is good enough for the goose should be good enough for the gander don't you think? Virgo I knew many churches that were open to the lord revealing anything that might be wrong that needed adjustment. Good leaders would institute change. Some churches are very conscious of not offending the holy spirit. They also recognise the fact the church belongs to Christ. Not the leaders. We used to have a saying 'some pastors have hijacked the church.' Im not talking about leaders who are hungry for power/money/glory/ girls. Good leaders will be open to hearing from god. I agree with this, but most often there is the caveat......"the leaders have to agree that the message is from God." Often they act as censors. If they agree with it, then it is from God. If they do not (for whatever reason), then it is rejected.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 9:16:34 GMT -5
my aunt(passed away in 1996)took notes for conventions and special mtg's and sunday mornings trouble is their all in shorthand! i have all these notes i could be reading but alas i don't know shorthand..what a shame... I know exactly what you mean Wally, my sister was a professional steno typist and she left lots of notes(scribbles) too. Wish I could train a spider or something to unscribble/interpret/decipher them for me. All I can see is scratches, scrolls, dots and all kinds of strange looking characters/signs; but they were able to read them back like you and I would read a book.
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Post by bubbles on Dec 1, 2014 11:53:14 GMT -5
Virgo I knew many churches that were open to the lord revealing anything that might be wrong that needed adjustment. Good leaders would institute change. Some churches are very conscious of not offending the holy spirit. They also recognise the fact the church belongs to Christ. Not the leaders. We used to have a saying 'some pastors have hijacked the church.' Im not talking about leaders who are hungry for power/money/glory/ girls. Good leaders will be open to hearing from god. I agree with this, but most often there is the caveat......"the leaders have to agree that the message is from God." Often they act as censors. If they agree with it, then it is from God. If they do not (for whatever reason), then it is rejected. Its his church. The thing is when it was from the lord it was usually confirmed at least 3 times through other leaders. Via dreams vision scripture etc.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 1:00:01 GMT -5
"what is good enough for the goose should be good enough for the gander don't you think?" Be careful how you answer this question because if the answer is yes then what is igood enough for what goes on in the fellowship should be good enough for what goes on in other churches, and vice versa , what goes on in other churches should be good enough for the fellowship, so logically, there will be no disputing just unity in Christ. Goose = the fellowship gander= other churches So good enough for goose = good enough for gander.= unity in Christ with some little differences of applications./ approaches. The important thing is Christ being in the midst of their gatherings for worship. Let us be honest, the fellowship's ways of worship was organised by man; the words/terms used : "meetings" instead of the commonly used " church services" like some other churches use, " conventions," " Special meetings," " gospel meetings," " Workers," Elders," "overseers." All these terms are not really mentioned in scriptures but they have been adopted by the fellowship; yet we criticise other churches for introducing their particular terms reverend, pastor, bishop , deacons , priests etc. their forms of worship and celebrated festivals, then label them "worldly churches." I am sure that if you look more deeply you wil find other diversions and divisions which really do not really matter one way or another other than to cause division among believers and detract from the important business of serving God in a spirit of unity and brotherly/sisterly love in Christ Jesus who has made that ultimate sacrifice for us all. As I grow older, it make little sense to me because we are supposed to be serving the same God Based on the same scriptures as recorded in the Holy Bible but by putting our own interpretations and emphasis on areas that suit our own individual interests/ purposes in support of particular organisations,-- splitting hairs. if our fellowship uses the ways of man then God is not in it period
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 1:02:29 GMT -5
well don't you think that the Holy Spirit has shown people in the fellowship what is wrong in other churches? and are they not supposed to say what the Holy Spirit has shown them? Why show it to them if they do not do anything with what they have been shown? it was spoken out against in the Bible, even Jesus spoke opout about what was wrong, especially to the Pharisee what is good enough for the goose should be good enough for the gander don't you think? Virgo I knew many churches that were open to the lord revealing anything that might be wrong that needed adjustment. Good leaders would institute change. Some churches are very conscious of not offending the holy spirit. They also recognise the fact the church belongs to Christ. Not the leaders. We used to have a saying 'some pastors have hijacked the church.' Im not talking about leaders who are hungry for power/money/glory/ girls. Good leaders will be open to hearing from god. i have no argument with that but are you saying that our workers not open to hearing from God?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 1:04:10 GMT -5
Virgo I knew many churches that were open to the lord revealing anything that might be wrong that needed adjustment. Good leaders would institute change. Some churches are very conscious of not offending the holy spirit. They also recognise the fact the church belongs to Christ. Not the leaders. We used to have a saying 'some pastors have hijacked the church.' Im not talking about leaders who are hungry for power/money/glory/ girls. Good leaders will be open to hearing from god. I agree with this, but most often there is the caveat......"the leaders have to agree that the message is from God." Often they act as censors. If they agree with it, then it is from God. If they do not (for whatever reason), then it is rejected. they should know if it is from God without any doubt
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 1:04:59 GMT -5
I agree with this, but most often there is the caveat......"the leaders have to agree that the message is from God." Often they act as censors. If they agree with it, then it is from God. If they do not (for whatever reason), then it is rejected. Its his church. The thing is when it was from the lord it was usually confirmed at least 3 times through other leaders. Via dreams vision scripture etc. what on earth is dreams vision scripture?
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Post by bubbles on Dec 2, 2014 1:08:24 GMT -5
Virgo I knew many churches that were open to the lord revealing anything that might be wrong that needed adjustment. Good leaders would institute change. Some churches are very conscious of not offending the holy spirit. They also recognise the fact the church belongs to Christ. Not the leaders. We used to have a saying 'some pastors have hijacked the church.' Im not talking about leaders who are hungry for power/money/glory/ girls. Good leaders will be open to hearing from god. i have no argument with that but are you saying that our workers not open to hearing from God? Where did I say that? When I post im generalising about churches/the body of christ in general because of my life experience. That is why I will say leaders unless im directing something towards workers.
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Post by bubbles on Dec 2, 2014 1:10:55 GMT -5
Its his church. The thing is when it was from the lord it was usually confirmed at least 3 times through other leaders. Via dreams vision scripture etc. what on earth is dreams vision scripture? All through scripture god spoke to people in dreams or vision today he will use scripture as well. He spoke through an ass remember?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 1:12:46 GMT -5
I agree with this, but most often there is the caveat......"the leaders have to agree that the message is from God." Often they act as censors. If they agree with it, then it is from God. If they do not (for whatever reason), then it is rejected. Its his church. The thing is when it was from the lord it was usually confirmed at least 3 times through other leaders. Via dreams vision scripture etc. who's church? and what leaders are you speaking of? all looks a bit gobble de gook to me
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Post by bubbles on Dec 2, 2014 1:14:41 GMT -5
You bitting my heels lol I just posted that. Quick today virgo.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 1:16:01 GMT -5
i have no argument with that but are you saying that our workers not open to hearing from God? Where did I say that? When I post im generalising about churches/the body of christ in general because of my life experience. That is why I will say leaders unless im directing something towards workers. it was a question deary
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 1:19:37 GMT -5
what on earth is dreams vision scripture? All through scripture god spoke to people in dreams or vision today he will use scripture as well. He spoke through an ass remember? He will also speak directly to one from Himself to person in their hearts
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Post by bubbles on Dec 2, 2014 1:21:54 GMT -5
Its his church. The thing is when it was from the lord it was usually confirmed at least 3 times through other leaders. Via dreams vision scripture etc. who's church? and what leaders are you speaking of? all looks a bit gobble de gook to me The body of christ is worldwide. Any person who is bornagain of the spirit of god. Christ is the head we are the body fitly framed working together Everyone has different gifts. Christ being head of the church leads the church. It belongs to him Revelations talks about the father placing all christs enemies under his feet. When I refer to leaders im talking about apostles,prophets, teachers, pastors, evangelists,:elders, deacons, bishops,helps anyone who ministers. Anyone who hears from god.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 1:28:05 GMT -5
who's church? and what leaders are you speaking of? all looks a bit gobble de gook to me The body of christ is worldwide. Any person who is bornagain of the spirit of god. Christ is the head we are the body fitly framed working together Everyone has different gifts. Christ being head of the church leads the church. It belongs to him Revelations talks about the father placing all christs enemies under his feet. When I refer to leaders im talking about apostles,prophets, teachers, pastors, evangelists,:elders, deacons, bishops,helps anyone who ministers. Anyone who hears from god. we are the body fitly framed working together? ?just got to look on this board to see that that is a fancyfull idea
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