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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 5, 2014 22:21:29 GMT -5
Nathan, I have always heard that angels cannot disobey god because they have no free will. This would contradict the belief that Satan (who was an angel) then had the ability to disobey God. Someone is wrong. Either angels don't have power to disobey and that includes Satan, or angels can disobey and that means all of them. Which is it? If God created angels to only be good and they have no power to disobey, does this mean that God is not all powerful since one of his angels somehow found the power to disobey? its obvious angels have free will for satan choose to rebel against God, i imagine that the threshold for disobedience is much higher than ours though... WOW!
Let me see if I can untwist that.
So our threshold for disobedience is lower than the angels? Right?
Therefore, we can disobey easier than the angels can. Right?
So how does Satan & his "angels" tempt us to disobey?
We can already disobey much easier than they can! So they have no effect on us after all! Right!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 23:08:59 GMT -5
just because our threshold is lower doesn't mean we can't obey God, so satan has his work to do and we ours....
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Post by xna on Nov 6, 2014 9:32:48 GMT -5
JMT
There are some contradiction with the 2x2 dogma posted here.
If Jesus was just a man, an elder brother as the 2x2 preach, then you have to explain Luke 23:43 (And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with me in paradise.) then go on to explain the contradiction of not judging Matthew 7:1-3 (Judge not, that ye be not judged)
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Post by xna on Nov 6, 2014 12:30:36 GMT -5
JMT
There are some contradiction with the 2x2 dogma posted here.
If Jesus was just a man, an elder brother as the 2x2 preach, then you have to explain Luke 23:43 (And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with me in paradise.) then go on to explain the contradiction of not judging Matthew 7:1-3 (Judge not, that ye be not judged) Jesus is our elder brother because he lived and died as the Son of man. Jesus is also our Lord God and Savior because He is God/the son. Therefore, Jesus is both our elder brother and God.
Jesus doesn't want us to judge the book by its cover/outward appearance but judge with righteous judgment by looking what's in the heart of men and women.
So you say Jesus was; man, mother, father, son
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Post by snow on Nov 6, 2014 12:38:36 GMT -5
Nathan, I have always heard that angels cannot disobey god because they have no free will. This would contradict the belief that Satan (who was an angel) then had the ability to disobey God. Someone is wrong. Either angels don't have power to disobey and that includes Satan, or angels can disobey and that means all of them. Which is it? If God created angels to only be good and they have no power to disobey, does this mean that God is not all powerful since one of his angels somehow found the power to disobey? its obvious angels have free will for satan choose to rebel against God, i imagine that the threshold for disobedience is much higher than ours though... Well, that's one of those flying leaps logic that has to be taken when you have contradictory evidence to justify. Angels have notoriously been said to have no free will by those who are supposed to know these things, biblical scholars etc. But in order to untangle the problem with the fallen angels story, what can a person do? All of a sudden these angels do have free will? Which is it really. Angels as far as I have read, do not have free will. We do and that's why we can disobey. But angels can't disobey without free will can they.
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Post by snow on Nov 6, 2014 12:41:23 GMT -5
So you say Jesus was; man, mother, father, son No. Jesus is NOT God the Father or the Holy Spirit/mother qualities. Jesus is God Yahweh the son, the son of man our elder brother. Jesus is Both God and man.So getting back to your analogy of a family, who is the mom in this group Nathan? Surely there is a mother.
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Post by snow on Nov 6, 2014 14:34:49 GMT -5
So getting back to your analogy of a family, who is the mom in this group Nathan? Surely there is a mother. God the Holy Spirit as the Mother. Acts 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
God of the Most High as the Father.
God the I AM that I AM, the Alpha and Omega as the Son.God is Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God. In heaven there is no MALE or FEMALE. For us/humans to understand Godhead, Jesus described the Holy Spirit as a He. So, in our human understanding, the Holy Spirit takes the role like the mother... The Comforter, a Teacher, a Guide to Jesus, and Protector of God's people and church until Jesus returns. In heaven or Eternity the Holy Spirit is NOT a He or a She. God is Spirit. I find it interesting how God is male when it's useful and non gender when they are asked why no divine feminine in the trinity.
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Post by snow on Nov 6, 2014 14:51:20 GMT -5
I find it interesting how God is male when it's useful and non gender when they are asked why no divine feminine in the trinity. God/Elohim the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is Spirit. Godhead has characteristics of Male and Female as a Father and Mother.... Stern and No wishy washy as a Father but Loving/kind/compassionate as a Mother= ONE Godhead.So males are stern and not 'wishy washy'? Does that mean males are also not loving, kind nor compassionate? I've met some pretty stern nuns in my life. Been paddled by a couple too. Sister St. Rene my grade 3 teacher was very stern and no one could have said she was 'wishy washy'. Nathan I think you're trying to inject the trinity with the divine feminine when it really isn't there. The Hebrews were a patriarchal society and their God was male and he did earlier have a wife, which they dropped from their history at the same time they started to write their history down while in captivity in Babylon. It might be a more compassionate religion if their was a figure head that was the divine feminine like most other of the world religions.
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Post by rational on Nov 6, 2014 16:15:25 GMT -5
JMT There are some contradiction with the 2x2 dogma posted here. Oh, say it's not so.
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Post by Lee on Nov 6, 2014 16:39:46 GMT -5
One thing the Bible does not make clear, is whether the difference between men and angels is a species distinction or a dimensional distinction. Could it be neither one? Reflect for a moment on the behavior of humans, there's very little in common between the social and political orbits of say, a diplomat and a beggar. Culturally, physically, and in just about every other way human beings run the gamut, -one has to look no further than our species to find "strange".
Question: The Yahi nation of American Indians called the European invaders the "Saldu". Being frightful, awesome, and strange, were the Nephilim any wierder to their contemporaries than the Saldu were to the Yahi?
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Post by xna on Nov 6, 2014 16:50:51 GMT -5
So males are stern and not 'wishy washy'? Does that mean males are also not loving, kind nor compassionate? I've met some pretty stern nuns in my life. Been paddled by a couple too. Sister St. Rene my grade 3 teacher was very stern and no one could have said she was 'wishy washy'. Nathan I think you're trying to inject the trinity with the divine feminine when it really isn't there. The Hebrews were a patriarchal society and their God was male and he did earlier have a wife, which they dropped from their history at the same time they started to write their history down while in captivity in Babylon. It might be a more compassionate religion if their was a figure head that was the divine feminine like most other of the world religions. God is Spirit. There is no Male of Female in heaven. God the Father is stern but also Loving, forgive and forget, kind, and compassionate like the Son and the Holy Spirit= Godhead, that is their nature.~ Nathan9 Now you got me thinking... You say we humans are not alone in the universe, and God also made the ET's, so if the ET's go to the same heaven and hell, will there be segregation by species, or will we mix together?
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Post by rational on Nov 6, 2014 16:53:33 GMT -5
God is Spirit. There is no Male of Female in heaven. God the Father is stern but also Loving, forgive and forget, kind, and compassionate like the Son and the Holy Spirit= Godhead, that is their nature. No sex in heaven? Is this the same god the father whose exploits we read about in the OT? That kind and compassionate guy?
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Post by xna on Nov 6, 2014 17:06:51 GMT -5
~ Nathan9 Now you got me thinking... You say we humans are not alone in the universe, and God also made the ET's, so if the ET's go to the same heaven and hell, will there be segregation by species, or will we mix together? Born again Humans, God's angels and Obedience ETs from other planets will mix/mingle together as ONE BIG HAPPY of God in heaven. Satan, 1/3 of the fallen angels, and their followers, the unbelievers will be segregated in the outer darkness forever from the rest God's family in heaven.Sounds fun. The Raëlian's would agree with you on that point. www.elohimembassy.org
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Post by snow on Nov 6, 2014 18:04:15 GMT -5
God is Spirit. There is no Male of Female in heaven. God the Father is stern but also Loving, forgive and forget, kind, and compassionate like the Son and the Holy Spirit= Godhead, that is their nature. No sex in heaven? Is this the same god the father whose exploits we read about in the OT? That kind and compassionate guy? Come on Rational, he really is a kind, compassionate kinda guy. Why do you question that?
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Post by rational on Nov 6, 2014 18:05:14 GMT -5
Yes, there will no Sexual intercourse in heaven... Because no more procreation, or making babies needed in heaven. God couldn't come up with a way to prevent pregnancies other than to forbid sex?Specifically - what kind of joy? What pleasure? What sanctification?Read the story of Noah where, except for 7 people, all other men, women, and children were killed. VERY compassionate. Filled with love. Then there was the case of Sodom. Again with the killing. Out of love no doubt. Like the loving touch for Lot's wife.
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 6, 2014 20:12:35 GMT -5
God is Spirit. There is no Male of Female in heaven. God the Father is stern but also Loving, forgive and forget, kind, and compassionate like the Son and the Holy Spirit= Godhead, that is their nature. ~ Nathan9 Now you got me thinking... You say we humans are not alone in the universe, and God also made the ET's, so if the ET's go to the same heaven and hell, will there be segregation by species, or will we mix together? Ehum....Probably a segregation by species and then of course I'm sure if there are exterterestial aliens out there there is bound to be more than just one group of them! So they would have to be segregated of them from one another.
Then, don't forget there would have to be segregation of the sexes (can't have no hanky-panky going on) then color, race, ethnic variables & I'm sure many more.
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 6, 2014 20:21:39 GMT -5
Born again Humans, God's angels and Obedience ETs from other planets will mix/mingle together as ONE BIG HAPPY of God in heaven. Satan, 1/3 of the fallen angels, and their followers, the unbelievers will be segregated in the outer darkness forever from the rest God's family in heaven. Sounds fun. The Raëlian's would agree with you on that point. www.elohimembassy.org I'm not so sure. "The structure of the Raëlian Church is hierarchical, with seven levels ascending from level 0 to level 6.[53] The top four levels consist of "Guides". The level 6 guide, known as the "Guide of Guides", has the final say on who becomes a level 5 "Bishop Guide" or a level 4 "Priest Guide".[53] Bishops and priests promote lower-level members one level at a time during annual seminars. Each bishop or priest can propose a new guide as long as the candidate is from a level below his or her own. Guides can assist "Regional Guides"—level 3 and above[51][52]—in their assigning of non-guide members to levels 3 ("Assistant Priests"), 2 ("Organizers") and 1 ("Assistant Organizers")." wiki I can't believe that they would give up that structure, even for heaven.
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Post by xna on Nov 6, 2014 20:28:09 GMT -5
I'm not so sure. "The structure of the Raëlian Church is hierarchical, with seven levels ascending from level 0 to level 6.[53] The top four levels consist of "Guides". The level 6 guide, known as the "Guide of Guides", has the final say on who becomes a level 5 "Bishop Guide" or a level 4 "Priest Guide".[53] Bishops and priests promote lower-level members one level at a time during annual seminars. Each bishop or priest can propose a new guide as long as the candidate is from a level below his or her own. Guides can assist "Regional Guides"—level 3 and above[51][52]—in their assigning of non-guide members to levels 3 ("Assistant Priests"), 2 ("Organizers") and 1 ("Assistant Organizers")." wiki I can't believe that they would give up that structure, even for heaven. If the Raëlian Church is the one true church, then I think NathanB would move up the ranks fast in that new world order. :-)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 20:51:07 GMT -5
Nathan - how much science do you read? how much science did you ever learn? what other conspiracy theories are you into?
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Post by rational on Nov 6, 2014 22:54:10 GMT -5
Yes! if those were the Nephilim= Satan own children tried to destroy God's Savior seed, then they should all be KILLED.Killed the heroes of old, men of renown? Where did you come up with the Satan tie-in? The bible says they were offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men. There is no reasoning here.
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Post by Lee on Nov 7, 2014 14:11:48 GMT -5
My ex-father in law (yes ex) obsessed about ufo's and aliens. He'd seen them so he was in the know, others weren't. Seeing things (or data collection, to put it scientifically) is the easiest task of science. Data interpretation asks, "What do we really know?", and is the harder task by far.
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Post by Lee on Nov 7, 2014 14:17:29 GMT -5
Like some atheists need to know there is no God, and manifest it by their certitude, some people just need to know there are ufo's and aliens. What is it exactly that distinguishes a healthy mind from a delusional one?
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Post by xna on Nov 7, 2014 14:56:46 GMT -5
Like some atheists need to know there is no God, and manifest it by their certitude, some people just need to know there are ufo's and aliens. What is it exactly that distinguishes a healthy mind from a delusional one? PSA www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv6hDirly0E
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Post by matisse on Nov 7, 2014 15:07:56 GMT -5
Like some atheists need to know there is no God, and manifest it by their certitude, some people just need to know there are ufo's and aliens. What is it exactly that distinguishes a healthy mind from a delusional one? Personally, I do not "need to know there is no god." I would believe if I saw verifiable evidence of the existance of a god. In my experience, I have seen no more verifiable evidence of the existance of a god than I have seen of the existance of Valiant Thor. On the other hand, I see all kinds of evidence of the existence of the human imagination.
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Post by xna on Nov 7, 2014 15:21:41 GMT -5
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Post by rational on Nov 7, 2014 15:55:10 GMT -5
Like some atheists need to know there is no God, and manifest it by their certitude, some people just need to know there are ufo's and aliens. What is it exactly that distinguishes a healthy mind from a delusional one? What atheist needs to know there is no god? That would me like saying that Lee needs to know there is no all yellow unicorn.
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Post by rational on Nov 7, 2014 16:01:50 GMT -5
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 7, 2014 16:11:14 GMT -5
Nathan - how much science do you read? how much science did you ever learn? what other conspiracy theories are you into? Bert, you should stick with your TV shows. ETs, fallen angels, demigods, the giants/Goliath are too much for your brain to comprehend. Keep on watching your TV shows and don't worry about my posting on here. Just skip reading my posts, Bert. I would presume from this answer, Nathan, that you haven't read or learned much science.
So next time you an ill, don't go to medical science for any remedy because your brain is so much beyond science that they would not be able to help you anyway.
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