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Post by Mary on Oct 5, 2014 20:14:45 GMT -5
Where does it say Moses saw the Son? The reason he did not see God's face is because it was the Father not the Son. God was in the burning bush and in a cloud because it was the Father and no man can see him.
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Post by Mary on Oct 5, 2014 22:13:58 GMT -5
He talked to Moses through the bush and throw the cloud. Jehovah/YHWH is the Father.
Yahweh-the personal name of the God of the Israelites. They did not believe Jesus as God - it was used in reference to the Father.
Jesus in the Old Testament is written Yeshua, Yehoshua, Yesu... And means to save or Savior, or Salvation.
The Word of God came to earth to become the Savior Who takes away our sins. To be the Savior who will Save His People. And Jesus is from Yeshua that means 'He shall Save'.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 5, 2014 22:34:09 GMT -5
I believe Chi and Shakras are the same thing but called it differently in different languages.www.bing.com/images/search?q=chakras%3f&qpvt=Shakras%3f&FORM=IGREChi is an inner energy within us. Sometimes we see Halo on the angels, Jesus, Mary and eastern teachers Buddha paintings.Demonstrating the Power of Chi from a Kung Fu master. Power drill couldn't penetrate his head!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOXnjtSRYSk God put the Chi energy within us. The brain is an amazing thing by using the Chi energy it can heal the body. NateIve heard of non christians experiencing what I would call entering the glory of God/ abiding in the secret place/bathing in his presence which is tranquil total peace, filled with joy. I know my heart rate was lower. I felt it was /is a place of healing. How do you interpret that with the non christian having a similar experience just using different terminology? Could be that the reasons & the terminology are both different. Maybe it is due a biological factor.
''The autonomic nervous system is the part of the peripheral nervous system that acts as a control system that functions largely below the level of consciousness to control visceral functions,[1]
including heart rate, digestion, respiratory rate, salivation, perspiration, pupillary dilation, micturition (urination), sexual arousal, breathing and swallowing.
Most autonomous functions are involuntary but they can often work in conjunction with the somatic nervous system which provides voluntary control." wiki
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Post by rational on Oct 6, 2014 8:58:43 GMT -5
Moses did not see God's face Nathan. God appears in all different ways - in dreams, etc. God appeared to Moses in the burning bush and in a cloud. He heard his voice but did not see his face. The Bible is clear that no man has seen God and lived. Really? Exodus 33:11 strongly implies this is not the case. When you speak face to face with a friend do you see their face?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 10:57:33 GMT -5
Moses did not see God's face Nathan. God appears in all different ways - in dreams, etc. God appeared to Moses in the burning bush and in a cloud. He heard his voice but did not see his face. The Bible is clear that no man has seen God and lived. Really? Exodus 33:11 strongly implies this is not the case. When you speak face to face with a friend do you see their face? that is an expression of speech because of this verse Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
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Post by rational on Oct 6, 2014 11:24:04 GMT -5
Really? Exodus 33:11 strongly implies this is not the case. When you speak face to face with a friend do you see their face? that is an expression of speech because of this verse Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. What would make this an expression of speech? It explains a relationship. So the LORD spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.I could say Exodus 33:20 is an expression of speech because of this verse: So the LORD spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.
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Post by Mary on Oct 6, 2014 16:08:59 GMT -5
Really? Exodus 33:11 strongly implies this is not the case. When you speak face to face with a friend do you see their face? that is an expression of speech because of this verse Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Yes, I says Exodus 33: 9 and whenever Moses went into the tent a pillar of cloud would come down and stay at the entrance while the Lord spoke with Moses. verse 20: But you cannot see my face for no one may see me and live. 20 Then the Lord said, There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. When my glory passes by..... So I believe Moses did not actually see Gods face but God appeared in a cloud and Moses talked to him who was in the cloud. If God was in human form then what is the glory He talks about. There was no glory in the human Jesus. I do not believe it was Jesus as Jesus had not come to earth in human form.
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Post by rational on Oct 6, 2014 17:54:31 GMT -5
that is an expression of speech because of this verse Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Yes, I says Exodus 33: 9 and whenever Moses went into the tent and pillar of cloud would come down and stay at the entrance while the Lord spoke with Moses. verse 20: But you cannot see my face for no one may see me and live. 20 Then the Lord said, There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. When my glory passes by..... So I believe Moses did not actually see Gods face but God appeared in a cloud and Moses talked to him who was in the cloud. If God was in human form then what is the glory He talks about. There was no glory in the human Jesus. I do not believe it was Jesus as Jesus had not come to earth in human form. So the fact that the cloud stayed outside by the door somehow voids the verse stating that god and Moses talked face to face, like friends talk? Why write it in the bible if it wasn't true?
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Post by bubbles on Oct 7, 2014 1:26:46 GMT -5
Im going to throw something in here. The glory of god is incredibly bright. You couldnt look at it with the naked eye.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 8, 2014 5:30:28 GMT -5
Nate When did you begin listening to Derek Prince? He was one of my favourite teachers.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 8, 2014 12:35:35 GMT -5
Nate When did you begin listening to Derek Prince? He was one of my favourite teachers. I have never heard of Derek Prince but I will look him up on the Internet.Thought I saw his name on one of your quotes last b4 bed. Can christians have a demon.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 12:39:43 GMT -5
I have never heard of Derek Prince but I will look him up on the Internet. Thought I saw his name on one of your quotes last b4 bed. Can christians have a demon. if you mean possessed then yes....
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Post by bubbles on Oct 8, 2014 12:45:08 GMT -5
Wally
Ive seen a lot of christian delivered from demons over many yrs. Ths topic came up a fewyrs ago on here. Most people didnt agree.
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Post by bubbles on Oct 8, 2014 15:20:37 GMT -5
Nate I clicked on one of your tiny links bottom page not sure which post. It brought up a list of topics. Fonts were blue. That was one of them I clicked on that bz I didnt think you thought christians could have a demon.
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Post by CherieKropp on Nov 5, 2017 16:30:44 GMT -5
Fresh off the press! Just added this essay today on TLC Website:
Are the Workers Apostles?
Although some Two by Twos will attempt to evade or seemingly distance themselves from the group’s longtime teaching that their workers are the modern–day embodiment of the apostles of Christ Jesus, this claim is widely known and established within the group, and has even been advertised by the workers themselves (see illustration below). Many Two by Twos hold to a theory of apostolic successionism, to one degree or another, in which a continuous thread of apostles has existed since the time of Jesus. They also posit that only their own ministry bears the marks of true apostleship, and that this is one of the primary reasons that theirs is the only true church. These are exceptional assertions that bear scrutiny and comparison with what the Bible states about apostles.
The Word “Apostle” First of all, the Greek word "apostolos" simply means someone commissioned by another person (or entity) and sent out as a representative of that person: e.g., a delegate dispatched by a government, a plenipotentiary sent by a king to negotiate, a herald charged with making an announcement, a factotum assigned to deliver instructions to a subsidiary business, etc. The term is used 81 times in the Bible, generally plural, although also used in the singular by Peter and Paul to indicate their function as transmitters of what they saw and heard from Jesus Christ.
The word "apostolos" is directly connected to the verbs "apostello" and "exapostello" (to commission and dispatch on a mission) and to the noun "apostole" (the commission upon which basis a person is sent). The Greek uses a different term, "pempo," when merely indicating the act of sending someone or something.
Apostles Commissioned of Jesus Christ in the Bible The word apostle on its own signifies little more than a person who has been appointed as a delegate. It does not tell who was the authority doing the sending, and says nothing about the message or mission to be carried out. Jesus sent out groups of 12 and 70 disciples to Israel with a specific announcement, but only the 12 did he specifically name as apostles (Luke 6:13).
Later, the position which Judas Iscariot had occupied among the 12 was assigned to another, in fulfillment of prophecy. In his stead, another longtime disciple (Matthias), was appointed to be an eyewitness to the ministry and resurrection of Christ Jesus (Acts 1:16–26). Later still, Paul was appointed by Christ to bring news of salvation to the Gentiles (Romans 1:1, 11:13; 1 Corinthians 9:1–2, 15:9; Galatians 1:1; 1 Timothy 2:7; 2 Timothy 1:11). Paul knew of Jesus’ earthly ministry, and was an eyewitness of the risen Christ. Apart from the direct commissioning of Paul to go to the Gentiles, we hear of no others being sent out by Jesus.
That the special position of the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ was not a continuing succession is shown by their witness being spoken of in the past, rather than the present and future, tenses (e.g., 1 Corinthians 4:9; Ephesians 4:11; 2 Peter 3:2 and Jude 1:17). That their names are inscribed upon the 12 foundations of the heavenly Jerusalem mentioned in Revelation 21:14 further limits the membership to the 12. The lack of additional eyewitnesses being appointed as apostles of Jesus Christ in the Biblical account is glaring. Paul, appointed to reveal the good news to the Gentiles, stated in 1 Corinthians 15:7–9 that he was the final person to be commissioned by Jesus Christ. In addition to his work in preaching and establishing churches far and wide, Paul acted as an apostle sent by the church at Antioch, and of the 12 apostles in Jerusalem.
Read the rest at: thelibertyconnection.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=451:are-the-workers-apostles&catid=10:bible-topics&Itemid=14
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Post by nathan on Nov 5, 2017 16:45:52 GMT -5
I read the whole thing... Cherie, you did NOT write this article, right? an ex-2x2 worker or ex-2x2 wrote it, right? at the bottom it said Source: Anonymous author is an ardent student of the Bible and very knowledgeable about Two by Two Church.
He or she is NOT a good Bible student or knowledgeable about the two by two church article/essay Are the workers apostles? I can point out many holes/errors in the article...
Let me think, and I will point out the errors when I get the chance.
This anonymous author wrote: Again, the Workers of the Two by Two Church are not apostles of Jesus Christ: they were not directly commissioned or sent out by Jesus, and they cannot bear direct witness to his life and resurrection. Instead, they are only "apostles of the Overseers," who are the actual ones who commission them, send them out and direct (and sometimes terminate) their missions. It is absolutely against the Two by Two Church's bedrock teachings and traditions to claim to be apostles or sent forth except through the church’s Overseers. They do not allow anyone else making a claim to being an apostle to preach or minister among them, and label anyone – friend or outsider – who would attempt to do so as "false."
~~ Nathan: The workers today are NOT commission by Jesus Christ because he went back to heaven after he appointed Paul to be his chosen vessel sent/apostle him to preach among the Gentiles... Before Jesus went back to the Father, he promised he would sent the Holy Spirit to carry on His gospel work through the apostles and His followers.
It was the Holy Spirit who began sending the new apostles in the book of Acts such Timothy, Silas, John Mark, Luke and others... These men had NOT met or seen Jesus face to face but Paul the apostle called them as apostles. So, if you apply the workers today are NOT apostles of Christ because they had NOT directly commission and sent out by Jesus, and they can NOT bear direct Witness to his life and resurrection, then that is an incorrect way of calling the workers are NOT apostles today!
The workers are apostles today! because they are sent forth by the Holy Spirit just like He had sent out Timothy, Silas, John Mark, Luke and others in the book of Acts... They did NOT witness the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.
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Post by slowtosee on Nov 5, 2017 16:57:11 GMT -5
Nathan. Curious. Did you consider yourself an apostle when you were in the work? Alvin
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Post by nathan on Nov 5, 2017 17:11:30 GMT -5
Nathan. Curious. Did you consider yourself an apostle when you were in the work? Alvin Yes, I did consider that. I knew the dealing of the Holy Spirit to my own heart. The call of going forth like the apostles in the New Testament. I was planning to be a Pentecostal preacher, attending Minot, North Dakota seminary college in 1978. After I met the workers were having Bible studies on the University of Guam campus lawn, it changed all of that... I prayed to God, whether He wanted to go forth like the pastor today by attending the Seminary or going forth like the apostles in the New Testament... Going by Faith, taught like Paul and Timothy... 24/7 apprentice service training.
God revealed His plan for me to go forth like the apostles of the New Testament apostolic ministry. I offered for the work in 1980 and started in 1984 but misunderstanding on the overseer in Washington state I did NOT start. So, I left Washington and I offered again started in Oregon in 1986-93.
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Post by slowtosee on Nov 5, 2017 17:28:06 GMT -5
Thanks, Nathan Do you still consider yourself an apostle or did that change when you left the work? Alvin
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Post by nathan on Nov 5, 2017 17:31:29 GMT -5
2) The anonymous Are the workers apostles? wrote: In the first century, the apostles could point directly to their being commissioned directly by Jesus Christ, and they bore witness to those things which they personally saw and heard. Even Paul could point to his credentials (2 Corinthians 11) to refute those who falsely claimed to be apostles. Although there are instances where New Testament churches sent out their own emissaries, those “apostles” were not automatically apostles of Jesus Christ unless they had already been commissioned by Jesus Christ in person. The Bible nowhere mentions apostles being commissioned by the Holy Spirit, and only Jesus is mentioned as being sent from the Father.
~~ Nathan: In Acts 13: 2-5 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.
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Post by nathan on Nov 5, 2017 17:35:43 GMT -5
Thanks, Nathan Do you still consider yourself an apostle or did that change when you left the work? Alvin Once a worker is always a worker. I am NOT active in the work, but my calling as a worker/apostle of God is still the same. My heart still caring for the lambs and sheep of God, love helping people...
I work harder now than I was in the work. hahaha... I have been doing this over 20 yrs... 24/7 and caring/providing for my family also. Sharing the gospel at work... I am having a great time! I am more of a teacher, an evangelist than a preacher.
I am NOT good at speaking in front of hundreds and thousands of people. I do better with one on one, face to face communication or TMB/Internet type of communion. Less stress this way.
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Post by slowtosee on Nov 5, 2017 17:48:40 GMT -5
Thankyou. I think with the understanding you have that an apostle Is someone who tries to follow gods calling and cares and loves gods people and tries to help them , makes most believers “apostles”. Fair enuf. I guess it depends on our definition of an apostle . Thank you for yours. Alvin
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Post by nathan on Nov 5, 2017 18:11:40 GMT -5
Thankyou. I think with the understanding you have that an apostle Is someone who tries to follow gods calling and cares and loves gods people and tries to help them , makes most believers “apostles”. Fair enuf. I guess it depends on our definition of an apostle . Thank you for yours. Alvin There are the apostles=sent forth by God/Holy Spirit into the ministry as preachers of the gospel, and pastors/caring for God lambs and sheep, solving churches problems (like the 12/70, Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Titus. There are apostles= sent forth by God/Holy Spirit as the friends/followers of Jesus show loves of God to the world, be good living witnesses for Christ in this world as lights and salt.
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Post by magpie on Nov 5, 2017 18:25:41 GMT -5
Workers can not be Apostles of Christ,"NO"never, WHY? Because they deny the Deity of Jesus and the Deity of the Holy Spirit.So to teach that and convert a person to believe that,the only unforgivable sin is being performed. The denying the Spirit of God as God,therefore denying God. . www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html . . www.gotquestions.org/unpardonable-sin.html .(Read other scholars on this subject and cross reference,with scripture) . When I experienced and watched the destroying of children,for decades, worldwide by the 2x2 Irvinist's prolific Paedophiles,wow,to deny the deity of(HE) the Holy Spirit,God's Grace is unfathomable as He is able to forgive a repentant mentally disordered Paedophile,but not denying Him.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 5, 2017 21:04:08 GMT -5
Really? Exodus 33:11 strongly implies this is not the case. When you speak face to face with a friend do you see their face? that is an expression of speech because of this verse Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. That line works. I tried it one Halloween night.
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Post by xna on Nov 5, 2017 21:29:12 GMT -5
that is an expression of speech because of this verse Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. FYI Chapter 34 - contradicts Chapter 33. Exodus 34:23 "Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen."
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Post by Grant on Nov 6, 2017 0:20:41 GMT -5
2) The anonymous Are the workers apostles? wrote: In the first century, the apostles could point directly to their being commissioned directly by Jesus Christ, and they bore witness to those things which they personally saw and heard. Even Paul could point to his credentials (2 Corinthians 11) to refute those who falsely claimed to be apostles. Although there are instances where New Testament churches sent out their own emissaries, those “apostles” were not automatically apostles of Jesus Christ unless they had already been commissioned by Jesus Christ in person. The Bible nowhere mentions apostles being commissioned by the Holy Spirit, and only Jesus is mentioned as being sent from the Father. ~~ Nathan: In Acts 13: 2-5 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.Where does it say these 2 were apostles? Many people have been commissioned by the Holy Spirit to go out preaching over the last 2,000 years but they are not the apostles.
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Post by nathan on Nov 6, 2017 0:37:55 GMT -5
2) The anonymous Are the workers apostles? wrote: In the first century, the apostles could point directly to their being commissioned directly by Jesus Christ, and they bore witness to those things which they personally saw and heard. Even Paul could point to his credentials (2 Corinthians 11) to refute those who falsely claimed to be apostles. Although there are instances where New Testament churches sent out their own emissaries, those “apostles” were not automatically apostles of Jesus Christ unless they had already been commissioned by Jesus Christ in person. The Bible nowhere mentions apostles being commissioned by the Holy Spirit, and only Jesus is mentioned as being sent from the Father. ~~ Nathan: In Acts 13: 2-5 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.Where does it say these 2 were apostles? Many people have been commissioned by the Holy Spirit to go out preaching over the last 2,000 years but they are not the apostles. Acts 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out...
~~ The Holy Spirit is still active on the earth since Acts of the apostles, He has been sending forth laborers/workers or apostles in every generation until Jesus Christ returns to reign as King of kings and LORD of lords on the earth with His people, where they will Reign with Him.
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